Buffy Rewatch!

[Lisin]

Hello all! When Sarah D. Bunting (Sars to you old school TWoPers) realized that FX was going to air Buffy Season 1 on weekends (2 episodes a week) starting this weekend (or last weekend, it appears Harvest is on Saturday morning and Witch is on Sunday morning) she decided to do a rewatch, she's going to be going at her own pace (likely fairly fast) and she'll be doing write ups on the main site which we'll link to in the forum. 

 

We're not going to try to fully coordinate with Sarah because she's not positive how fast she's going to go, so I'm going to do an episode a day here which will probably keep us up with her so the episodes she's writing about are fresh in our brains. The plan is to start on Monday over here. Hopefully you all want to join in!

 

 

[Wilowy]

Welcome to the Hellmouth - again! 

[Earl Is Dead]

YAY!  I just finished my own rewatch as FX has been running them for a while and wrapped up S7 this week, but I look forward to new write ups.

 

A warning:  If FX's schedule this time is anything like it's been for the past few months, it'll be pretty erratic.  Sometimes extra episodes appear during the week, and every once in a while there's two or more on a random Saturday morning.  God bless DVRs!

Edited May 16, 2014 by Earl Is Dead

[linlorn]

Excellent, just in time for my maternity leave :)

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Thanks for coordinating, Willowy, Lisin, and other mods!

 

I'm pleased to report I got 11 minutes into "The Harvest" before telling Xander to shut it.

[Secretly Stephie]

omgomgomg

[Valny]

I don't have time for a rewatch(may certain favorite ones when they come along) but yay for new write ups!

[Sarah D. Bunting]

...Oh hi, "Teacher's Pet." How've you been? ...Still crappy? Yeah, thought so.

[mstaken]

I actually kind of adore Teacher's Pet, though I can't begin to justify why. Then again, I'm also the weirdo who's forced to name Go Fish as the BtVS episode I've watched more often than any other :)

 

I'm so excited to read Sara's write ups and everyone's thoughts! 

Edited May 19, 2014 by mstaken

[Wilowy]

@mstaken, it's the Speedo, isn't it? ;)

[Valny]

@mstaken, it's the Speedo, isn't it? ;)

It is for me! :) Best part of the ep.   But also Buffy breaking that douche Cameron's nose in the car scene was pretty great. Otherwise, it ranks low on my episode rankings, but definitely not the worst(I'm looking at you most of S7)

 

 

 

Then again, I'm also the weirdo who's forced to name Go Fish as the BtVS episode I've watched more often than any other :)

Wow, can't say I've ever heard anyone claim that before @mistaken!

Edited May 20, 2014 by Valny

[Kalliste]

I've been rewatching recently, currently up to start of S5 Buffy, so will be joining in occasionally :)

[Endeavour]

I don't think I'll have time to rewatch but look forward to the write ups.

[Mya Stone]

Teacher's Pet has nothing on I Robot, You Jane. 
 

Yay for Buffy rewatch! I've been itching to go back to Sunnydale for awhile. 

[Lisin]

Here's Sarah's first article for the rewatch! Please take general S1 discussion to that topic and specific episode talk to the episode topics. If you don't see one up yet you're welcome to create it! I'm doing one a day but if you have a burning desire to talk about something I haven't gotten to then be my guest. :)

[Dianthus]

Oh man! I was just part of a BtVS rewatch on another site that recently wrapped. I prob'ly won't be rewatching the eps, but I've seen them all multiple times, and discussed them with others who've also seen them multiple times. Wonder how many fights I'll get into this time? Spike's my favorite character, so I see things a little differently.

[tveyeonyou]

 

Wonder how many fights I'll get into this time? Spike's my favorite character, so I see things a little differently.

 

 

 

I got your back Dianthus, I'm on Team Spike too, in fact Season 6 is my favorite Season (ducks to avoid flying objects).

Seriously looking forward to this rewatch. There's nothing better than a Buffy rewatch to make life better :)

[Wilowy]

Jump in whenever you like! We're doing it now! 

[Dianthus]

Thanks, tveyeonyou. Nice reflexes, BTW.

I can't say s6 is my favorite, but there is a method to the madness. I'm not generally one to seek out conflict (honest). OTOH, I'm a Spike fan for a reason (i.e., snarky, stubborn and opinionated).

Edited May 24, 2014 by Dianthus

[Eegah]

Showing up a little late, but I'm looking forward to this. Seasons 1-5 I adored and seasons 6 and 7 I endured, and I never get tired of spewing my unwanted opinions about them. Also, I highly recommend Mark Oshiro's articles about the show if you haven't seen them already; I'm a huge fan and even when we disagree he always has something interesting to say.

 

http://markwatches.net/reviews/category/past-shows/buffy-the-vampire-slayer/

[Sarah D. Bunting]

My thoughts on the back half of Season 1.

[taanja]

 

Spike's my favorite character, so I see things a little differently.

 

Oh sweet thing! You mean Spike isn't EVERYONE's favorite character??? LOL ;-)

 

I own the 7 season box set. I love to pull a DVD at random and watch all the eps on it.

The Becoming (pat one and two) is always fun.

Season 4 has it's charms (Something Blue.... anyone...anyone?)

Season 5 has it's moments as well.

 

Oh and season 6? Buffy and Spike? need I say more??? (I choose to forget the "almost rape" ep. I watched it once and once only.

 

hey I even like season 7!

[tveyeonyou]

Showing up a little late, but I'm looking forward to this. Seasons 1-5 I adored and seasons 6 and 7 I endured, and I never get tired of spewing my unwanted opinions about them. Also, I highly recommend Mark Oshiro's articles about the show if you haven't seen them already; I'm a huge fan and even when we disagree he always has something interesting to say.

 

http://markwatches.net/reviews/category/past-shows/buffy-the-vampire-slayer/

True confessions: I love Season 6, Season 7 I also endured but S6 holds a special place in my perverted heart.

 

And yay to Mark Watches! I was lucky enough to catch his rewatch and bought/contributed a few episodes just to watch the pure awesome of a first time Buffy watcher. Seeing Mark fall off his chair a few times was worth every $!

 

I wish I could see it all for the first time again.

[Dianthus]

taanja, Something Blue and Intervention are (not surprisingly) two of my favorite eps.

 

tveyeonyou, Seeing Red is a very difficult ep for any Spike fan, I think, but it's his response to what he tried to do that really matters. Not only did he know it was wrong, he cared that it was wrong. You can see it in his face, once he's been jolted back to his senses. It's a real wake-up call for him, and thinking of it that way makes it (somewhat) easier for me to bear.

[Wilowy]

Oh Gawd. I never had a problem with the AR. Seriously.

 

Spike is a MONSTER. A vampire! Even though he has this wonderful redemptive arc and tries and tries to do the right thing over and over throughout the entire show, and often does... he's still a monster and he's going to do monstrous things!! For cripes' sake, he thought Dru tying him up and setting him on fire was the height of romance!! Hello?

 

All the whinging and indignance about it when it happened reminded me of that fable where the rabbit or frog or whatever gets the crocodile to take him across the river, and then is still surprised when he eats him! He's a crocodile! He's gonna EAT YOU, you dumbass! 

 

I love Spike, no matter what. It doesn't even matter that I lean more towards Bangel. Spike, alone... just Spike... is the best and most awesome vampire since Barnabas Collins. 

[Carrie Ann]

I actually hate a lot of things about Spike and Spuffy in S6, and of course I hate the attempted rape. But I appreciate it at the same time, because the show never downplays it--everyone acknowledges it for what it was. In the decade-plus since this aired, I have seen so many problematic depictions of rape on TV with NO acknowledgment or consequences for the rapist, it makes BtVS seem like a model for how to handle it. Spike is horrified enough to take massive steps to change his very nature, and once he has, he spends the final season attempting to atone--most crucially, he makes those changes without ever expecting Buffy to accept him again. He does it because it's the right thing to do, not to get the girl back. His redemption arc in S7 is much more satisfying than I remembered it.

[Dianthus]

Willowy, I actually kind of agree, tho I don't see it as having been inevitable. While I was "shocked and disappointed" (my heart just about sank thru the floor), I can't help but think that Buffy was playing with fire, and we all know what happens then. She sings about wanting the fire back in OMWF, just as Spike sings about the torch (fire) he bears for her and that it scorches him. Spike is carrying the fire for her and she could've warmed herself by it, IMO. 

Carrie Ann, the way I see it, Spike (for all his flaws) was giving Buffy the strength she needed to pull herself back together for most of s6. Once she managed it, she (respectfully) kicked him to the curb. Subtext that will become text (sorta) in s7, when she tells him directly that he gave her the strength to go back and face Caleb again.

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

I actually hate a lot of things about Spike and Spuffy in S6, and of course I hate the attempted rape. But I appreciate it at the same time, because the show never downplays it--everyone acknowledges it for what it was. In the decade-plus since this aired, I have seen so many problematic depictions of rape on TV with NO acknowledgment or consequences for the rapist, it makes BtVS seem like a model for how to handle it.

 

Buffy wanted to let Spike take care of Dawn the very next episode after he had tried to rape her and the consequences of the attempted rape were all about Spike, rather than how it affected Buffy. If this is the model of to handle rape and its consequences on TV, I shudder to think what the worst examples might be...

 

That said, I never got why so many people are apparently completely fine with Spike's murders but totally indignant about the attempted rape. If you don't like the storyline, fine, I hate it too, but in terms of making the character a monster, this ranks at about 43854096594th place.

[mad_typist]

That said, I never got why so many people are apparently completely fine with Spike's murders but totally indignant about the attempted rape. If you don't like the storyline, fine, I hate it too, but in terms of making the character a monster, this ranks at about 43854096594th place.

 

^^^^^ This, x1000.

 

While the attempted rape was horrible and I loathed that decision, there were more problematic things about the way the series white washed Spike's murderous past. For example, in S6 after Spike and Buffy are laying around post-coitus, Spike says something to the effect of, "The only thing more fun than killing a Slayer is f**ing one". It was gross how the show treated that as "Oh, you scamp!" cute banter, when he's pretty much saying he really enjoyed murdering teen girls. That always bothered me more than anything else.

[Carrie Ann]

Buffy wanted to let Spike take care of Dawn the very next episode after he had tried to rape her and the consequences of the attempted rape were all about Spike, rather than how it affected Buffy. If this is the model of to handle rape and its consequences on TV, I shudder to think what the worst examples might be...

Sorry, I meant to make my sarcasm a little more obvious and I didn't go into detail about the pros and cons of how they handled things, but I agree with you completely. I was intending to say that it's only in reflection that I can appreciate it somewhat in comparison to the handling of rape on The Vampire Diaries and Game of Thrones, for example, which both have instances of rape that are never called that and the perpetrators have no consequences.

 

I had and have a ton of problems with the storyline, and with Spike in general in later seasons. And I'll never not hate Spuffy in Season 6, post-Tabula Rasa--I don't see the way he pulled her "into the darkness" with him as giving her strength, @Dianthus. I saw it as exactly what he said it was. He brought her down, and she finally brought herself back up.

[Dianthus]

Carrie Ann: Spike comes to represent Buffy's Inner Darkness, her Slayer-ness (their power comes from the same place). He doesn't pull her into the darkness with him. The Darkness has been inside her since she became the Slayer. We see it for the first time in When She Was Bad (s2), before Spike is even introduced. She challenges Angel to "kick [her] ass" and torments Xander with the sexy dance. She will do both to Spike in s6. He's trying to get her to acknowledge that Darkness, something she resists doing. Her ambivalence towards him is the same as her ambivalence towards her Calling. Once again, subtext will become text in s7 (Get it Done).

[Carrie Ann]

So he's the source of her strength, and also her Slayerness, and her Inner Darkness, and then what's next on the list? Does Buffy exist at all outside of Spike?

 

As I said, I don't think their relationship post-Tabula Rasa has anything to do with giving Buffy strength. I think she was depressed, and he took advantage of it because he saw it as the only way he could have her. He encouraged the worst feelings she had about herself and about life, told her he was the only one who really knew who she was, encouraged her to withdraw further from her loved ones and her life. I'm never going to see that as a positive thing that happened in her life. That she got through her depression and near-rape stronger isn't about him and it's not because of him. It's about her.

[Dianthus]

Carrie Anne: In Primeval, Buffy and the Scoobies do the joining spell. They are all, in a sense, free-range aspects of her. Giles is her Intellect, Willow her Spirit, and Xander her Heart. Spike saves them from a lesser threat while Buffy's busy saving them from Adam. It's so they won't stake him, of course, but they are saved all the same.

They set up parallels in this episode between Buffy and Spike. They share the same irreverent attitude towards the deadly serious and deadly powerful Adam. Also, they both display an inability to follow orders.

He also acts in lieu of the Slayer over the 147 nights she's dead. He stayed in Sunnydale, fighting the Good Fight, when he didn't have to, when there was no one around to give him credit, or points, or whatever.

It is Spike who represents an aspect of Buffy, not the other way around. Embracing him is the equivalent to embracing that aspect of her character. Plus, she went to him of her own volition. She's not helplessly in thrall. She's not making the best decisions, given her trauma and state of mind, but they are her decisions.

We all have darkness inside us, just as we do light. Dealing with that darkness, accepting it, is healthy

and necessary.

[Eegah]

My views on anything Spuffy is very simple: I don't care. The writing staff have actually admitted that they were constantly at war over how to portray the relationship, both in how healthy it was and whether Spike or Buffy should be the aggressor. And they chose to handle it in the most childish, passive-aggressive way possible, as every writer simply portrayed it their preferred way when their turn came around, with no effort to being consistent with anything that had come earlier. This storyline was never intended to make any sense, and anyone who tries to make sense out of it is giving it way more dignity than it deserves.

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

While the attempted rape was horrible and I loathed that decision, there were more problematic things about the way the series white washed Spike's murderous past. For example, in S6 after Spike and Buffy are laying around post-coitus, Spike says something to the effect of, "The only thing more fun than killing a Slayer is f**ing one". It was gross how the show treated that as "Oh, you scamp!" cute banter, when he's pretty much saying he really enjoyed murdering teen girls. That always bothered me more than anything else.

 

Agreed. The only good thing I can say about that is that Anya was even worse. At least Spike rarely cracked jokes about his murders, Anya did it all the time.

 

But for me the most disturbing "funny" scene is Willow being happy that Spike would "bite her in a heartbeat." in The Initiative.The hell? It is disturbing enough even if we discount the blatant rape undertones ("I know I'm not the kind of girl vamps like to sink their teeth into. It's always like, "ooh, you're like a sister to me," or, "oh, you're such a good friend."), and it's too stupidly meta. And in the next episode Willow is all breezy about it, never mind she would have died if it weren't for the chip.

[taanja]

 

Not only did he know it was wrong, he cared that it was wrong. You can see it in his face, once he's been jolted back to his senses. It's a real wake-up call for him, and thinking of it that way makes it (somewhat) easier for me to bear.

 

 That is one of the (many) reasons I liked Spike better than Angel.

 

When Angel was evil he hated Buffy and wanted to torment and kill her. Every time. He did not want to be redeemed. He always fought against it. In fact he reveled in the evil of it all. He had to have his soul forced upon him ---by the gypsy and Willow (wasn't it twice?) once in the Buffy series and at least once in the Angel series?  if given the choice ---Angel would have never chosen to be good.

 

But Spike on the other hand --- sought out his soul after he committed that heinous crime against Buffy. He KNEW it was wrong and went about trying to make himself a better man (Ok vampire---whatever!) He chose his soul to be returned to him.

 

[Shangrilala]

How does one go about hopping into this rewatch?  I have FX on demand and know that they have Buffy on it, how do I know which episode and when? 

[taanja]

 

How does one go about hopping into this rewatch?  I have FX on demand and know that they have Buffy on it, how do I know which episode and when?

 

I don't know either. I too have FX On Demand and just started watching randomly. They were airing season 2 as of a few days ago  (but they all said "ending 6/2/2014) so I don't know what season is now available?

 

The last one I saw was "Lie to Me" ---Where Buffy's friend from LA comes to town (His name is Ford) and tries to exchange her to Spike for becoming a vampire. It is where we meet "Chantell" (sp?) who we later meet in the Ep called "Anne". In this ep she is calling herself "Lily"----  (First ep of season 3)

 

 So anyway after my ramble---I don't know? I just hopped in and started watching whatever ep was available. HaHa!

[Sarah D. Bunting]

My rewatch continues with the first 3 episodes of S2!

[Lisin]

@Shangrilala and @taanja there's no real "right place" to start, Sarah has written about both halves of season 1 (linked above) and we've got threads  open for most of Season 1, I'll be finishing opening them tonight, and starting season 2. The show is also on Netflix streaming if you have that. 

[Tetraneutron]

Season 2. I agree with you about Spike, Sarah. Lots of fun, great villain, just layered enough. Until season 4 when the show tried to turn him into a good guy, woobified him, tried to make him a love interest for Buffy, and ruined the show. I swear, Marti Noxon's therapist needs to see season 4. And Dru is the absolute biggest waste of space. Question: has that waifish, quasi-Victorian-ghostchild character EVER not sucked? On any show? Why do people keep trying to make it happen?

[harrie]

I kind of enjoy Drusilla just because she's freakin' nuts. 

[Kristen]

I kind of enjoy Drusilla just because she's freakin' nuts. 

Yes, a little bit of Dru goes a long way, but when they use her just enough, she's hilarious.

[Dianthus]

Eegah: Obviously, the writers didn't see eye-to-eye on Spuffy. Espenson and Fury seemed to be having a dialog in s5, with Triangle, Crush, and Intervention. I'd say it was due to a lack of communication on Whedon's part.

I disagree that trying to understand their relationship is pointless. It was, IMO, an important part of Buffy's development. So pardon me if I carry on talking about it regardless.

 

A vampire who likes to murder people?!? Unpossible! Unlike his other victims, the Slayers had the speed, skills and strength to defend themselves. In Spike's mind, that was honorable combat. He was taking on a fight he wasn't sure he could win. As we see in FFL, he only won those fights due to circumstance.

 

BtVS is hardly the first work to draw a link between the kill and sex for vampires.

 

Obviously: thru most of s4, Spike was still thinking of himself as evil. He was working both sides of the fence and trying to get the chip out of his head so he could "resume his killing ways." They made a joke out of him to make him more acceptable as part of the group. Obviously, he couldn't be a regular character if he was killing people all the time.

Some folks (not necessarily saying you're one of them) hate Spike 'cuz he doesn't behave the way a vampire should. That's one of my favorite things about him. I've always been into oddballs and outliers.

[Eegah]

Well, my actual biggest problem with Spike is the increased insistence as the show went on that he was, to quote The Lego Movie, the most interesting and important person of all time. This is a guy who was created to be killed off halfway through season 2, and was only kept on because Marsters was so electrifying in the role. Which is fine as far as it goes, but they really crossed the line by trying to make the show all about him, to the point where it felt like we were being explicitly asked to forgive every single bad thing he did.

 

And the "wanting to be good so much that he sought out his soul" thing? Watch the final scene of Seeing Red again. That's not someone who's devastated by what he just did, that's someone who wants to be able to do it again. Because that's exactly how Marsters was told to play the scene, and he was naturally quite upset when he learned what was supposedly really going on. If the people making the show didn't care enough about it to maintain even the most basic level of character continuity, why should I?

[Hanahope]

I'm enjoying reading Sarah's posts about this show.  I haven't watched the series since it aired, although I bought the DVDs about a year ago when I got a fantastic deal.  I've been waiting to rewatch when my kids were old enough (oldest is 9 1/2).  However, I'm considering going ahead and rewatching them now (as tbh, I can't recall what episode goes with what name, so some of the comments don't register), and then doing it again with the kids later.

 

The kids might actually be ok watching at least some of the shows.  As I recall, the violence is all fighting and dust puffs and no real sex.  Probably not any worse than what they already watch on Nick.

[Wilowy]

No real sex, until you get to S4 and beyond and if you don't count Surprise/Innocence and Faith deflowering Xander. I let my 10-yr-old watch up through season 3, with other eps from later seasons picked by me. I think I traumatized her with The Gift, though. She cried for twenty minutes! 

 

Today she told me a friend asked her what is the scariest song she's ever heard and Willow picked this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUnGyBz29ZM

 

I swear I haven't shown her Hush yet! 

[Hanahope]

Yeah, I don't think I want to show my 9 year old Hush either.  The Gentlemen creeped me out as an adult.

[Valny]

I let my 10-yr-old watch up through season 3, with other eps from later seasons picked by me. I think I traumatized her with The Gift, though. She cried for twenty minutes!

 

Aw, that's adorable @Willowy.  I think.

 

Just curious,so if she's seen through season three and you picked eps from later seasons, how did you explain Tara and Willow? So she knows what happened to Oz?   Did she see New Moon Rising?

[Wilowy]

She would ask questions, and I'd tell her.

 

Me: "Oz left Willow so she met and fell in love with Tara."

Willow: "So Willow likes girls now?"

Me: "Yes."

Willow: "Ok. Can I go play?"

 

Hee. She's been raised around gay folks so it doesn't faze her one bit, and she corrects her friends that are less informed. Her and her friend Makayla sing along and act out the Under Your Spell song whenever we watch OMWF. I think she's hetero like me, owing to her boycrushes each week, but who knows? :)