Ratings and Scheduling: Who's the fairest of them all?

[Mathius]

If Rumple is seriously kept on alive and in the present day, it proves beyond a doubt that A&E have zero awareness as to when a character has run their course and should be retired.  Next to nobody seems to like Rumple anymore in S6, the abusive relationship drama with Belle and the rehashing of Peter Pan/Baelfire with Black Fairy/Gideon interests and excites no-one.  There is nothing left for Rumple to offer beyond in flashbacks, if even that.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Mathius

[sharky]

For this reboot, I could see everyone getting sent to the EF and this being set up as a good vs. evil. If that's the case, you need an evil and a Rumple without Belle could be an evil.

And if they're cutting cast, I could see renegotiating being an issue of spreading some more money around. Remember that Ginny was a big deal and a major draw when they started the show so her contract is probably bloated, especially considering her current lack of air time now. Cut Ginny, Josh, Emile and Bex, split Ginny's salary among the rest of the main cast and use Josh's to pay for two newcomers. You're still making a profit.

I also wonder if the renegotiating is more than just money. Perhaps reduced roles or more free time to pursue outside interests like movies or directing. Guest roles instead of main cast. I also wonder if they need to negotiate a new deal if the show moves to Freeform. Does the standard contract cover all Disney/ABC channels or do you need a new one when the show switches over?

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

For this reboot, I could see everyone getting sent to the EF and this being set up as a good vs. evil. If that's the case, you need an evil and a Rumple without Belle could be an evil.

Promos: "The battle between good and evil rages on... Sundays this fall on ABC."

Quote

 split Ginny's salary among the rest of the main cast

I read this as "Granny's" LOL.

Edited March 11, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, sharky said:

Remember that Ginny was a big deal and a major draw when they started the show so her contract is probably bloated, especially considering her current lack of air time now. Cut Ginny, Josh, Emile and Bex, split Ginny's salary among the rest of the main cast and use Josh's to pay for two newcomers. You're still making a profit.

That sounds like an embarrassing fall from grace.

[sharky]

Some of that was Ginny's doing though. I think she asked for less screen time when she had her kids and I don't fault her for that. Mom before TV bomb! ;) And if Ginny isn't there, I don't think Josh would be either. They were at the Oscars last month, Ginny played the main character in Zootopia. They both probably see the writing on the wall that they can be in LA and do other work -- and better work -- that doesn't involve long hours away from the kids. Voicing a movie can be just as lucrative and not as time consuming as playing Snow White and Prince Charming.

[CCTC]

6 minutes ago, Camera One said:

That sounds like an embarrassing fall from grace.

I don't know, during that time she had two babies and was given the lead in a very successful Oscar winning film. Sure it was voice work, but I don't think it is the last we will see that character.  Plus, I think she did voice work for one of the Disney direct to videos, so chances are she is someone they will use again.   She has had work the last couple of years, most actors would kill to have.

Plus, she and Josh seem to fly back to CA as much as they can during the year.  They might be tired of splitting their time between their home, Vancouver, and the airport, esp. as the kids get bigger.  It is hard to know what is happening behind the scenes, but if they are being written off or going recurring, it might be something of a mutual decision.

[CCTC]

16 minutes ago, sharky said:

If that's the case, you need an evil and a Rumple without Belle could be an evil.

That is really the only way I would like to see Rumple in the future.  His redemptions have come across as false and insincere and he has reverted too many times and way too easily.  I have never really felt he has wanted to reform, but just said what he thought Belle had wanted to hear. As much as I tire of Regina's angst and self-pity, after the far too easy slip back to evil in season 2B, she has seemed to sincerely want to avoid the darkness.

Still, as much as I think Bobby is a good actor and Rumple has had some great moments, we have seen him play the bad guy off and on for 6 years.  I would rather see a completely new big bad with a completely fresh perspective on evil.

[Mathius]

Rumple gets criticized for having become a cardboard, cartoony villain enough as is.  Making him full-on evil will just make those complaints even more prevalent.  There is no way for him to win here: if he stays as is, then he keeps the tiresome flip-flopping and problematic relationship with Belle which is also derided, but if he loses all that, then there isn't even the illusion of depth for him anymore.  When a character is caught in a Catch 22 like that, it's an obvious sign that said character just should not exist anymore.  If Rumple dies again in 6x19, then he needs to stay dead this time.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Mathius

[Camera One]

3 minutes ago, Mathius said:

Rumple gets criticized for having become a cardboard, cartoony villain enough as is.  Making him full-on evil will just make those complaints even more prevalent.  There is no way for him to win here: if he stays as is, then he keeps the tiresome flip-flopping and problematic relationship with Belle which is also derided, but if he loses all that, then there isn't even the illusion of depth for him anymore.  When a character is caught in a Catch 22 like that, it's an obvious sign that said character just should not exist anymore.  If Rumple dies again in 6x19, then he needs to stay dead this time.

I agree.  If they ended his character properly this year, it could lead to a more powerful conclusion for his character, even though it's a redux since they did it at the end of 3A already.

[Free]

1 hour ago, Mathius said:

Rumple gets criticized for having become a cardboard, cartoony villain enough as is.  Making him full-on evil will just make those complaints even more prevalent.  There is no way for him to win here: if he stays as is, then he keeps the tiresome flip-flopping and problematic relationship with Belle which is also derided, but if he loses all that, then there isn't even the illusion of depth for him anymore.  When a character is caught in a Catch 22 like that, it's an obvious sign that said character just should not exist anymore.  If Rumple dies again in 6x19, then he needs to stay dead this time.

The writers really failed to give him anything since he was reunited with Belle, his son, and confronted his dad/Peter, because since then, his character was stuck in a constant loop of a cartoon villain.

[jjjmoss]

Once’s last 2 seasonal drops are 37% and (so far) 33%. Nashville’s were 9% and 30%.

[Shanna Marie]

4 hours ago, Mathius said:

Rumple gets criticized for having become a cardboard, cartoony villain enough as is.  Making him full-on evil will just make those complaints even more prevalent.  There is no way for him to win here: if he stays as is, then he keeps the tiresome flip-flopping and problematic relationship with Belle which is also derided, but if he loses all that, then there isn't even the illusion of depth for him anymore.  

Also, if he's full-on evil, there's the problem that he starts to look incompetent if he hasn't destroyed everyone already. He's so overpowered that there's no real reason for him not just just kill anyone who gets in his way, so if there's no one giving him a reason and he's not trying to coexist in the same town, and if he's trying to do big evil schemes and still failing, then he looks like an idiot. However, if they are doing a reboot that's kind of season one all over again, except it's the next generation in the present and we only see the old characters in flashbacks that explain how the situation came to be this way, then I guess it could be about the latest big evil by Rumple that created the present situation.

[Camera One]

I am still surprised that Robert Carlyle is still open to staying on the show.  They could always have said Fake Rumple from the Wish Realm hitched a ride in Regina's pantsuit pocket and he is the Big Bad next season.  Rumple/Gold/Belle triangle... which one will she choose?

[Tiger]

53 minutes ago, jjjmoss said:

Once’s last 2 seasonal drops are 37% and (so far) 33%. Nashville’s were 9% and 30%.

It's difficult to compare what's going on with Once now to what happened with Nashville and Castle last year.

First, Nashville only even got a fourth season on ABC because they were able to secure extremely generous tax breaks from the state and city, and Lionsgate also cut the license fee to the bone as the show was in negotiation for syndication with CMT but it wanted four full seasons.  Also, once ABC cancelled Nashville it had nothing to do with the show landing at CMT with new episodes; that was all Lionsgate.  

With Castle, it only even got an 8th season because TNT wanted the additional episodes.  ABC (Network) effectively did ABC Studios a favor by renewing it for that 8th season because the studio could make bank.  When it came time to negotiate with the cast for a 9th season, which TNT also wanted, ABC and TNT made it explicitly clear that they werent interested in the show without Nathan AND Stana, but some morons at the Studio decided to never even approach her.  

As far as what is going on with Once now, my friend at ABC Studios is adamant that the Studio is not in negotiations with anyone or even talking about a 7th season and ABC has yet to even express interest in it.  She thinks these stories are coming from the show itself in a hail mary attempt to save themselves.  She also said, and I quote, "they wouldnt even approach Colin as he is still under contract through a prospective 7th season". 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Tiger
spelling is important

[RulerofallIsurvey]

18 hours ago, jjjmoss said:

A problem with Freeform is that if you look at Nashville, moving to CMT has cut the average viewership from over 4 million to under 1 million. The only show Freeform has that can get a million viewers is Pretty Little Liars, so it's not like it's a popular network that would sustain what's left of this show's audience.

I'd never even heard of Freeform until it was mentioned on this forum.  So there's that.

9 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Exactly. Whoever has left their home countries for the sake of their career (including me) are not going to be thinking of extended family when it comes to life decisions. It's really not hard to keep in touch these days from anywhere in the world. And he goes back to visit Ireland during Christmas IIRC. Colin's career is best served in the Americas than in Ireland.

There are acting jobs to be had in Ireland and the UK.  Iirc, he had a few of those before he got cast on OUAT.  So, I guess it depends on where his priorities lie.  He might be willing to take a lower salary (?) and less international notoriety for being closer to home with a wife and kids.  Many people do.

[Camera One]

As the Blue Fairy says, I have something you don't have.  HOPE!  Ginny, Josh and Jared haven't been mentioned because they have agreed to do the show for free since their storylines have been so rewarding.  And now the other 4 are negotiating.  Colin and Lana need to re-negotiate because this isn't just for Season 7.  In Fairy Tales, the number 12 is very important (eg. The Twelve Dancing Princesses) so they are negotiating for Season 7-12.  Meanwhile, no one at the studio knows the secret plans that Adam and Eddy hatched with Channing (who has recently changed her name to Charming) because they don't want to create buzz before the big announcement in May that Star Wars is finally coming to the small screen on "Once Upon a Time".  

[Rumsy4]

8 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

There are acting jobs to be had in Ireland and the UK.  Iirc, he had a few of those before he got cast on OUAT.  So, I guess it depends on where his priorities lie.  He might be willing to take a lower salary (?) and less international notoriety for being closer to home with a wife and kids.  Many people do.

It would be taking a serious risk for Colin to go back to Ireland if he had the choice of staying in the US TV/movie scene. It's notoriously difficult to get steady serial gigs in the acting profession. Maybe if he got cast in a British drama, he might go for it. But British television seasons are quite short compared to American TV.

[cappoe]

7 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

With Hook, Emma, and Regina, we're still stuck with the writers trying to appease the SQ crowd but not really, so Hook and Emma seldom get good scenes without an equal scene between Regina and Emma, and that keeps Hook and Emma's relationship moving at a weird pace because the writers freak out and backtrack every time they get criticized on Twitter.

That is going to mighty hard to do now that CS is getting something very big this season. They won't be able to appease them much.

[Shanna Marie]

4 hours ago, cappoe said:

That is going to mighty hard to do now that CS is getting something very big this season. They won't be able to appease them much.

Other than their usual trick of the big moment being rushed through and sort of downplayed, so Emma can immediately run off and check on Regina or rush off on some mission with Regina.

[cappoe]

11 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Other than their usual trick of the big moment being rushed through and sort of downplayed, so Emma can immediately run off and check on Regina or rush off on some mission with Regina.

Aside from the 4A finale, that hasn't happened since then. So I don't know what you mean by usual.

[daxx]

1 minute ago, cappoe said:

Aside from the 4A finale, that hasn't happened since then. So I don't know what you mean by usual.

It happened in the 5b finale, Hook came back from the dead and Emma took off to NYC with Regina. In 4A premiere She finally opened up to possibilities with Hook but was too guilty to pursue it because of Regina. There is an actual pattern here.

[Free]

19 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I'd never even heard of Freeform until it was mentioned on this forum.  So there's that.

It used to be ABC Family before it got rebranded as Freeform, I still think the name is bad imo.

[CCTC]

20 minutes ago, Free said:

It used to be ABC Family before it got rebranded as Freeform, I still think the name is bad imo.

I think way back in the day it was CBN - Christian Broadcast Network, which is why Pat Robertson's 700 Club was on it  - at least while it was ABC Family not sure if it is still on Freeform.  As ABC Family got racier going from old-school true family shows to racier teen dramas, the pairing with the 700 Club became more and more odd.

[MostlyC]

This is the ratings/scheduling thread.   Stay on topic.  Further off topic posts will be deleted.

Spoilers do NOT belong here.  Neither does spoilery spec.

If this keeps up, I'll be handing out warnings next.

Fairy Princess Bunny is angry.  You won't like her when she gets angry.

 

[Curio]

5 minutes ago, Souris said:

If anyone is into reading tea leaves and whatnot, Jen has replaced her Emma Swan Twitter icon with a photo of her as just Jen.

Responding in the speculation thread.

I'm curious to see how tonight's ratings go. This episode appears to be drastically different than the last two and prominently features two lesser-used characters.

[CCTC]

I think someone posted that ratings tend to be lower on day light savings day - because people are off their schedules.

[sharky]

Because I just realized the show is less than an hour away? Yep. Daylight savings drop is real. 

[Souris]

35 minutes ago, sharky said:

Because I just realized the show is less than an hour away? Yep. Daylight savings drop is real. 

Yeah, it's a known and odd ratings phenomenon.

[Camera One]

Noooo!  We don't need another thing working against us!  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

4 hours ago, Free said:

It used to be ABC Family before it got rebranded as Freeform, I still think the name is bad imo.

Gotcha.  Thanks for the clarification.  I didn't realize ABC Family got a new name.  But then, I don't have cable and watch all my shows (the few I follow regularly) via on-line streaming. 

And it is a bad name.  I would be more inclined to want to watch a show on ABC Family than Freeform.  Maybe they thought the "family" part of the name was too limiting in the kind of shows they wanted and audience they want to attract?  Like Freeform would appeal to that younger demographic networks are always after.  

3 hours ago, CCTC said:

I think way back in the day it was CBN - Christian Broadcast Network, which is why Pat Robertson's 700 Club was on it  - at least while it was ABC Family not sure if it is still on Freeform.  As ABC Family got racier going from old-school true family shows to racier teen dramas, the pairing with the 700 Club became more and more odd.

Lol.  Yeah, I guess The Secret Life of An American Teenager didn't play so well after the 700 Club - or vice versa.  

[Camera One]

4 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Gotcha.  Thanks for the clarification.  I didn't realize ABC Family got a new name.  But then, I don't have cable and watch all my shows (the few I follow regularly) via on-line streaming. 

And it is a bad name.  I would be more inclined to want to watch a show on ABC Family than Freeform.  Maybe they thought the "family" part of the name was too limiting in the kind of shows they wanted and audience they want to attract?  Like Freeform would appeal to that younger demographic networks are always after.  

They explain it in this article.  This is the main quote: They want to "evolve the young-skewing network past traditional family viewing and toward its target audience of “Becomers,” a network-coined term defined as those in the life stage spanning ages 14 to 34" and "reflects the network’s efforts to keep up with its millennial viewers as they grow up".

I agree the name sounds very generic.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Camera One

[sharky]

Generic but not too offensive. The crazy thing is ABC is stuck with The 700 Club in perpetuity. Yeah, perpetuity. They've even tried to get rid of it and can't. So no matter what they do to add shows to Freeform prime time or change the station name or whatever, they're stuck with The 700 Club at 11pm.

Edited March 13, 2017 by sharky

[Souris]

10 minutes ago, sharky said:

Generic but not too offensive. The crazy thing is ABC is stuck with The 700 Club in perpetuity. Yeah, perpetuity. They've even tried to get rid of it and can't. So no matter what they do to add shows to Freeform prime time or change the station name or whatever, they're stuck with The 700 Club at 11pm.

Wow!!

[Kktjones]

Hope the ratings can stay even with last week. I did notice that #OnceUponATime was trending pretty high in the US during the episode. It did not trend at all last week. I know that doesn't impact ratings, but it may be indicative of the number of people watching it...

[Mathius]

Given the ending to the episode and the general reaction to it?  The ratings are going to fall, and fast.

[Shanna Marie]

2 minutes ago, Mathius said:

Given the ending to the episode and the general reaction to it?  The ratings are going to fall, and fast.

That will show up in next week's ratings. The only way the reaction to this week's episode will affect this week's ratings is if the negative buzz keeps people who DVRd from watching, and they don't get any bump from people who time shift.

The question will be how many people are so disgusted that they decided they're done vs. how many people want to see how it all works out. Is the reaction that negative outside this board?

[Mathius]

27 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

The question will be how many people are so disgusted that they decided they're done vs. how many people want to see how it all works out. Is the reaction that negative outside this board?

Yes.  On other sites, even many people not crazy about Hook are appalled at how bad the writing for this twist was.

[Kktjones]

Yeah, I mean making Hook a Dark One last season went over like a lead balloon. So they decided to double down and have him kill Emma's grandfather? So bad on so many levels...

[RulerofallIsurvey]

10 hours ago, sharky said:

Generic but not too offensive. The crazy thing is ABC is stuck with The 700 Club in perpetuity. Yeah, perpetuity. They've even tried to get rid of it and can't. So no matter what they do to add shows to Freeform prime time or change the station name or whatever, they're stuck with The 700 Club at 11pm.

That's pretty funny.  And Robertson was pretty smart!

[Free]

10 hours ago, Kktjones said:

Yeah, I mean making Hook a Dark One last season went over like a lead balloon. So they decided to double down and have him kill Emma's grandfather? So bad on so many levels...

It reminds of when they tried to bring the Charmings down with the eggnapping or whatever this 'Dark' Hood is supposed to be.

[sharky]

Just FYI for those of us who keep refreshing the page to get last night's ratings. Apparently, Nielsen is taking the death of David's father very hard. From Deadline:

Quote

Nielsen is experiencing some sort of undefined “technical issue” we’re told and the fast affiliate results for ABC, Fox, CBS and NBC are delayed this morning. On the specifics, things are a little blurry, as Nielsen did not respond today for request for comment by Deadline. There is no indication yet as to when those early ratings for Sunday or Saturday are going to come in.

[Mari]

So, the last five minutes were so bad they caused widespread device malfunction?  Sounds about right.

[Shanna Marie]

23 minutes ago, Mari said:

So, the last five minutes were so bad they caused widespread device malfunction?

Lots of TVs with Nielsen boxes attached being thrown out the window?

[sharky]

5 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Lots of TVs with Nielsen boxes attached being thrown out the window?

"I watched this episode, but the last five minutes were so bad that I don't want you to know that I watched this episode!" *crash*

[Curio]

I'm kind of surprised the ending didn't make OUAT trend more on Twitter last night. Or was it hashtagged a lot and I'm just super inept when it comes to analyzing Twitter stuff?

[Souris]

2 minutes ago, Curio said:

I'm kind of surprised the ending didn't make OUAT trend more on Twitter last night. Or was it hashtagged a lot and I'm just super inept when it comes to analyzing Twitter stuff?

It was trending most of the ep, U.S. and worldwide.

[jjjmoss]

It was also the return of American Crime following that new flop TAT. ABC probably sabotaged the company (or paid them) so that tomorrow when the ratings come out they can focus on how big the finale of The Bachelor was to distract from their flop Sunday.

(Kidding.)

[Souris]

One of the Vancouver autograph/photo hounds is dropping some hints on Twitter of a "bunch" of cast leaving:

"With what I'm hearing about Once Upon a Time for next season if its true I don't know why they don't just cancel the show or fresh reboot it"

[cappoe]

Yup saw that. Pretty sure every person not in negotiations right now for S7 is getting dropped. That's well over half the cast.

[Mathius]

2 minutes ago, cappoe said:

Yup saw that. Pretty sure every person not in negotiations right now for S7 is getting dropped. That's well over half the cast.

And evidently, there are complications going on with the current negotiations, most likely from JMO and/or Robert Carlyle.