Ratings and Scheduling: Who's the fairest of them all?

[Free]

On 11/1/2016 at 9:06 PM, Mathius said:

Which is wrong. The odd-numbered seasons (1, 3 and 5) have been steady, but 2 and 4 suffered major drops.  And even in seasons 1 and 5 there were minor drops at some point (In S1, it was after "Dreamy", and in S5, it was after "Birth" & "The Bear King").  Season 3 was the absolute steadiest. 

There's also context to consider, S4 had the Frozen inflation, S5 was fairly steady until it took a sizable plunge at the tail end of 5a and then steadied itself for the rest of the season.

[Hookian]

OUAT ratings rose to a 1.1.

Wonder how long before people say the drop last week was cause of Hook and not cause it was freaking the World Series!

[jjjmoss]

The time change is expected to boost every 8-9 o'clock show. And possibly hurt every 10-11 o'clock show.

[Tiger]

I really hope ABC publicly publishes the live +30 numbers for premeire week.  

The network on the whole did amazing, and Designated, Grey's, and Murder fucking killed.  

Once was nearly dead even with last year's live +30.   So while the show isnt doing great by any measure, it seems that it's no longer bleeding viewers

[Hookian]

42 minutes ago, jjjmoss said:

The time change is expected to boost every 8-9 o'clock show. And possibly hurt every 10-11 o'clock show.

Yup because people are now coming home sooner. 

19 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I really hope ABC publicly publishes the live +30 numbers for premeire week.  

The network on the whole did amazing, and Designated, Grey's, and Murder fucking killed.  

Once was nearly dead even with last year's live +30.   So while the show isnt doing great by any measure, it seems that it's no longer bleeding viewers

None of that is relevant whatsoever. If +3's are not relevant why would +30's matter?

[maryle]

I believe Once is safe to stay at least above 1.0 until the break.  Once fans are a loyal bunch. 

I saw something interesting from futon critic concerning last Sunday.  They said Once surge in the live+3. But, not sure if that include the commercial c+3.

Edited November 7, 2016 by maryle

[icewolf]

Quantico along with Secrets and Lies are both already down to an embarrassing 0.6 demo ratings this week, in their second seasons. Talk about sad! No way those two shows are being renewed next year.

ABC's Sunday lineup is collapsing hard outside of OUAT, which is good news for OUAT and a final season 7. Edited November 7, 2016 by icewolf

[ParadoxLost]

41 minutes ago, icewolf said:

Quantico along with Secrets and Lies are both already down to an embarrassing 0.6 demo ratings this week, in their second seasons. Talk about sad! No way those two shows are being renewed next year.

ABC's Sunday lineup is collapsing hard outside of OUAT, which is good news for OUAT and a final season 7.

I'm not saying I think there will be a cancellation, but I don't think Sunday collapsing outside of OUAT holding somewhat steady is particularly good news for season 7. I'd say its neutral to bad.

A lot of the analysis of last year's scheduling decisions for this year chided ABC for not trying to do something to fix the Sunday night line up.  And by that they called out not doing something about OUAT which is failing to anchor the night.

[Hookian]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

I'm not saying I think there will be a cancellation, but I don't think Sunday collapsing outside of OUAT holding somewhat steady is particularly good news for season 7. I'd say its neutral to bad.

A lot of the analysis of last year's scheduling decisions for this year chided ABC for not trying to do something to fix the Sunday night line up.  And by that they called out not doing something about OUAT which is failing to anchor the night.

OUAT is 100% gonna be renewed at this point. They literally have next to nothing succeeding in the drama department and a lot of their new shows are slated to bomb.

[TheGreenKnight]

I just hope the show's ratings won't fall more than expected because of the change of schedule. The off one week, new ep, off two weeks, new ep, off one week, etc. strategy is not going to maintain consistency.

[Mathius]

Is the schedule actually changing?  I thought just the format was, not the scheduling of the show.  I figured we'd still come back in March.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Mathius

[KAOS Agent]

Channing Dungey stated that the long hiatus would not continue for ABC shows. Obviously, they will be off for several weeks because new eps won't air on Christmas and New Year's Day. It's possible they will be back on the 8th, but it will be up against the Golden Globes, so maybe they'll hold off another week. Once will also probably end the season a bit early on May 7 because the Billboard Music Awards will be airing on May 14.

[icewolf]

What change of schedule? I thought they are airing new OUAT episodes until episode 11 like always? What has changed this season?

[Camera One]

This is regarding the usual long break with no new episodes in January and February.

Channing Dungey said the following back in May (as the new ABC Entertainment president):

Quote

“We’re not doing as big a gap strategy as we may have done in the past,” she says. “There will be certain [shows] that have slightly longer breaks and some with very short breaks. I would prefer not to have big gaps.”

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/more-tv-news/abc-2016-17-huge-in-season-hiatuses-may-no-longer-be-a-thing/

Edited November 8, 2016 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

Scandal is back on air January 19th, so I'm working on the assumption that's the week most ABC shows are back from the Holiday hiatus.

[Tiger]

Aside from the Thursday dramas, the split seasons thing is done.  

Right now, Once, Quantico, Shield, and Designated are scheduled to air new deep into December, be off for 1-2 weeks, and then back with new episodes the first week of January.  

The big question is what ABC does with American Crime and the Dustin Lance Black docuseries.  Originally, they were going to air on Tues & Wed and give breaks to Shield and Designated, but now they may air on Sundays together starting the week after The Oscars.

As far as next week, ABC is 100% committed to expanding to at least 12 comedies next fall, including the ressurection of a true TGIF multicam comedy 4X.  That means Shark Tank will be on the move, taking up a slot currently occupied by a drama.   Plus, given how Housewife, Speechless, Boat, and Blackish are doing, I think they'll move one each off of Tues & Wed and open up yet another comedy hour elsewhere.  

Basically, dont be surprised if they redo Sundsys next fall as a family night of AFV, two of the comediea, Shark Tank, and then a drama at 10.  

[Eolivet]

57 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Basically, dont be surprised if they redo Sundsys next fall as a family night of AFV, two of the comediea, Shark Tank, and then a drama at 10.  

This. When you have random people in the TVLine comment section going "Wow, those are some pretty low ratings for OuaT at 8," it's a problem.

I am positive it will be renewed -- I remain extraordinarily doubtful that it will air on Sunday in its current timeslot next year.

[Tiger]

Given what has already happened this season and Iger and Sherwood's alleged mandates, I think that if the decision was made right now Once would get a final 7th season, with a reduced episode order, smaller budget, and airing Sun at 10.

ETA: I think majorly factoring in Once's favor is that Catch, Starcrossed, and Time After Time are all having major behind the scenes issues and will probably be dumped to late spring/summer.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Tiger

[Kktjones]

I'm not sure I understand the scheduling during Dec - February. Adam has said that the first part of the season would be 10 episodes which would support the last ep of the year airing on 12/4 (with no episode on 11/20 due to the AMAs). So would they return in January and then air against things like the Super Bowl and the Grammys in February? Will they end the season much earlier than May? Without taking that long hiatus, would they just go on a week/off a week during months like January and February? 

Sorry, just trying to understand how it might work...

[Tiger]

Right now new eps are also scheduled to air Dec 11, Dec 18, and Jan 8.  

If I had to guess, they'll air new through Jan & Feb except for the weeks of the AFC & NFC Championships and The Superbowl.  

Further, I'm expecting them to end the regular season Sunday shows much earlier than usual and get that Game Night Trio back on for a few weeks before The NBA Finals.  

But who knows.  Except for the comedies and the Thursday dramas, everything is up in the air right now.   They havent even decided what will air after Bachelor and that premeire is less than two months away.  

Apparantly Starcrossed is being considered, but Shonda wants her shows only on Thurs and the show is allegedly having some major behind the scenes issues.  

Edited November 9, 2016 by Tiger

[KAOS Agent]

46 minutes ago, Tiger said:

If I had to guess, they'll air new through Jan & Feb except for the weeks of the AFC & NFC Championships and The Superbowl.

ABC airs the Academy Awards on February 26, so that week is out. 

[Kktjones]

I just saw an article that says they are airing "Frozen" on 12/11, so I think that night is out too.

[sharky]

Essentially, it sounds like how you would expect a typical Sunday show to air. So there will be some weeks off, particularly in the winter or spring. So maybe three weeks, and then a week off for the Super Bowl, three more weeks, then a week off for Oscars. When you factor in event-type shows in the winter and spring, they will be able to space the episodes out until May.

I'm still convinced they'll leave it on at 8pm on Sundays for one more season. The ratings we base all of our debate on are 18-49 ratings and I really do wonder how many viewers there are under the age of 18. With Disney characters like Snow White and Aladdin and the Evil Queen, I do think ABC has some sort of internal data showing that those younger viewers have an effect on things like merchandising. Look no further than Freeform, which is going to be doing a sequel to their Descendants franchise. Or the Disney Channel itself. They don't show commercials during Mickey Mouse Clubhouse because the show IS the commercial. I can't think of another show on the ABC schedule that does something like that. I mean, Shonda stars aren't going to be signing posters and selling Funko dolls at Comic Con, that's for sure. Meanwhile, Hook has four or five different versions and all that money goes back to ABC. It reminds me a bit of Chuck. The show struggled in the ratings but was saved when the fans went out and bought Subway sandwiches to support one of the show's sponsors because it was about the money. I think a similar argument could be made for Once.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, sharky said:

I can't think of another show on the ABC schedule that does something like that. I mean, Shonda stars aren't going to be signing posters and selling Funko dolls at Comic Con, that's for sure.

There aren't too many prime-time, major network shows that offer the layers of merchandising possible with this show. Not only are the network airings promoting future DVD, download, and streaming sales of the show itself, but then there's all the merchandise, with the action figures, dolls, Funkos, t-shirts, posters, etc., etc., and then there's the indirect marketing for all the other Disney properties used in the show. I noticed that there's an upcoming airing of Aladdin on one of the Disney networks in the next week or so, and I don't recall it having been on since Robin Williams died. I wonder if there's been a boost in things related to that movie since Jasmine and Aladdin showed up on this show. It's probably not a huge boost, but it keeps these things top of mind -- cross promotion. I imagine this audience is also something advertisers find interesting, ratings and the usual demographic breakdowns aside, because it's a fairly unique niche. Like with the previous week's episode, they did some big promotion for Fantastic Beasts with a tie-in specific to this show, with the stars of the movie talking about Once Upon a Time and relating it to the movie, teasing the upcoming showing of the trailer. Really, this wacky little show had an Oscar winner (I did feel rather sorry for Eddie Redmayne, but he's a pro, so he at least sounded enthusiastic, and he might even be nerdy enough to have been sincere) talking about it and how it relates to magical storytelling during its commercial break, and I don't think that movie even comes from Disney (the other Harry Potter movies have been Warner Brothers), so it had to have been paid placement, with an ad shot specifically for this show.

[Souris]

ABC has a theme-park show in development (not sure when it will make it to air, if ever), but that sounds like something that would be prime for Sunday night. I think Once will be moved next season.

[icewolf]

ABC announced they aren't ordering anymore episodes of Conviction, which means that show is effectively canceled. (Poor Hayley Atwell!)

That last episode got a 0.6 rating, so that seems to the threshold for cancellation for ABC. Quantico and Secret and Lies got the exact same numbers last week...

[Hookian]

ABC Advisory Panel if you have an account is asking OUAT fans to take a survey as to why they think the ratings are not as good as they were before. What do they love about the show, what don't they like. What would they do to change.

It clearly seems ABC is interested in OUAT airing next season and they want feedback from the fans. Most people there are wanting more Emma/Hook and less Regina dobbleganger, no ones shock there.

[Souris]

I would caution against assuming what people are saying in a private survey, but it's a good idea to answer if you are eligible. I think it shows that ABC is concerned about the show but also invested in it -- if they didn't care, they wouldn't bother.

[Rumsy4]

I filled out the Survey. There haven't been episode polls in a while. I wonder if they'll bring them back now. 

Tbh, A&E are not the kind to respond to honest criticism. They'll just dismiss most of it as shipper nonsense, and take only the advice they like to heart. A&E need to be retired into "Senior Consultants" and the reins handed over to more competent writers. Unless abc promotes writes like Jane Espenson and David H Goodman as main Showrunners instead of A&E, I don't see much of anything changing. Besides, half the season is already done being filmed. Nothing major can be changed at this point, though I'm not sure the writers know where this season is going even now.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

I filled out the survey as well, but I stayed away from any shipper stuff. I also did say that when I see that A&E are writing an episode, I tend to lower my expectations. Called them out, but they asked. I talked about the flashbacks because I really hate flashbacks, especially when they give birth to an episode like 6x02.

[Tiger]

A&E may not care, but the folks at ABC Studios and ABC sure do.

Disney had a conference call about earnings last week and things got testy when ABC was discussed.  Dungey is under strict orders from Sherwood and Iger to right the ship and do it quickly.  

[Hookian]

That's great that ABC cares, it means they have interest in keeping the show and I'm sure A&E do too.

As long as people are providing valid criticism and not bitter shipper nonsense.

I mean people will say CS is unhealthy just cause it gets in the way of their crack ship. Even after beautiful scenes like the one in the last episode, it's just how they are. They don't take those kind of comments seriously.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Hookian

[RedKeep]

Personally, I'd prefer for ABC to disregard any shipper heavy/based answers, regardless of which end of the spectrum or corner of the fandom they come from. I respect if that's the main reason some people are currently still tuning in, it's not like the show has much else to offer at this point, but if we assume that they are serious about actually trying to fix this mess... I'd rather have them understand that they need to improve and invest more than just a bunch of additional ship-pandering scenes.

[Camera One]

Unfortunately, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and who are the majority of the people who would take the effort to voice their opinions - the shippers.   I'm not sure how the network can even use the data when they inevitably get equal numbers of conflicting comments about not getting enough Regina, CS or Rumbelle, when the show already devotes a lot of time to all three.  

And if people says stuff like "We want the Season 1 feel again", there's the unlikelihood of actual follow-through.  That is apparently what we have right now in Season 6, but the Storybrooke storylines are not at all "normal life" - they are completely reliant on magic and magical objects just like the last few seasons, the cameos from old characters have been temporary and mostly pointless, and the friendship between Emma and Mary Margaret from Season 1 has been given, let's say, one minute and we're seven episodes into the season (actually one minute might actually be too generous... was it 30 seconds before they were interrupted, or less?).

[Rumsy4]

Interestingly enough, many of the comments in the board were about too much angst with little payoff, character regression, and plot holes. So, while there is always going to be shippery-stuff, I feel some of the criticisms are going to be similar enough across the spectrum of shippers as to be significant. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

That's good to know.  I hope that's what they actually write in their surveys.

[KAOS Agent]

If they really want to know why ratings fell, the response needs to be about dropped storylines, lack of payoff and no long term consequences. Nothing matters on this show anymore. There's little reason to care. In addition, they removed the emotional heart of the show and replaced it with nonsensical plot. Villain fatigue and the continual dragging of the heroes could be worth mentioning too.  Everyone has their favorites, but too much/little screentime for their favorites isn't why people quit watching. 

[Shanna Marie]

I mentioned the show on Facebook last week, and got a number of "I stopped watching it" responses. Apparently, the Dark One arc turned off a lot of people. They just couldn't deal with Emma being turned into a Dark One for doing something good and going through all that psychological suffering. It was a show they watched for fun, and it stopped being fun.

[Curio]

12 hours ago, RedKeep said:

Personally, I'd prefer for ABC to disregard any shipper heavy/based answers, regardless of which end of the spectrum or corner of the fandom they come from. I respect if that's the main reason some people are currently still tuning in, it's not like the show has much else to offer at this point, but if we assume that they are serious about actually trying to fix this mess... I'd rather have them understand that they need to improve and invest more than just a bunch of additional ship-pandering scenes.

 

At this point, the shipper scenes are probably the only thing that will keep whatever is left of the audience around. Let's face it—OUAT is a show about romance, fairy tales, and True Love couples. A&E scoff at the shippers complaining about there not being enough romance, but that's literally what the show is supposed to be about. It's like complaining about Westley and Buttercup taking up too much time in The Princess Bride and demanding more flashbacks of the six-fingered man. Sure, you could deliver that kind of product, but that's not what's going to bring viewers back each year.

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

 And if people says stuff like "We want the Season 1 feel again", there's the unlikelihood of actual follow-through.  

 

A&E have claimed that every season was going to go back to its roots and feel more like Season 1, yet I haven't actually seen that play out on screen. Season 1 might have had the best ratings, but trying to go back to that formula five years later clearly isn't gaining more viewers. They're trying to force a square peg through a round hole at this point. The writers need to let the show progress and organically change into something new over time, but they keep putting restrictions on the plot and character development.

[RadioGirl27]

Ratings: 0.9 and 3.37. It's a series low.

[maryle]

Helas!! 

A little bit surprised, but not really!

I kinda thought they could hang  to 1.0  but the downfall trend was already there.

I am beginning to think trying to recreate season 1 without considerate  the normal evolution of the characters and their relationship with each other should be now was a mistake.

 

There clearly something off this year for the rating to look like roller coaster.  Personal opinion they did go overboard with the Regina splitting things. And the Savior mythology lackluster.

Edited November 14, 2016 by maryle
Spelling

[TheGreenKnight]

Not surprised. The past two or three episodes were pretty bad. I didn't think it would hold onto 1.0 through the end of the fall episodes anyway, although that would've been nice.

[Souris]

Given how much angst and upset there is in the country right now, Once SHOULD be the type of comfort TV that would draw families to watch. I mean, it's a "family" show about fairy tales and "hope," right? Except that it's NOT anymore, and people have figured it out. It's grim and depressing and upsetting. They're showing stuff that people don't want to see (for example, EQ/Rumple) and sidelining characters and relationships that people actually want to see. If ABC can't figure out what is driving people away, no wonder why they're No. 4 in the ratings.

The next episode will be after a week off AND on Thanksgiving weekend AND with a truly ugly preview. Pretty much a given it will set a new series low.

On 11/13/2016 at 10:29 AM, Tiger said:

A&E may not care, but the folks at ABC Studios and ABC sure do.

Disney had a conference call about earnings last week and things got testy when ABC was discussed.  Dungey is under strict orders from Sherwood and Iger to right the ship and do it quickly.  

Good luck with that, Channing.

I'd love to hear any other scuttlebutt you can share. Any direct mentions of Once?

I think it's clear there are going to be some big changes coming for ABC. Their ratings are embarrassing, especially Sundays. No way there isn't gonna be shaken up big-time. I'm not confident in a S7. If there is one, I foresee it being shortened and/or in a different time slot.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Souris

[jjjmoss]

Well it's actually not a series low; a few weeks ago it was a 0.9 with fewer viewers.

[Mathius]

1 hour ago, TheGreenKnight said:

Not surprised. The past two or three episodes were pretty bad.

Disagree - many people liked the past two episodes.  The overwhelming agreement is that it was 6x05 that was the letdown - the massively hyped Aladdin and Jasmine episode, and it completely failed to deliver.  When what was promoted as the biggest draw of the season ever since Comic Con ends up being a complete flop, of course the ratings will go down afterward.  There is barely anything interesting left to watch in this season.

Quote

Given how much angst and upset there is in the country right now, Once SHOULD be the type of comfort TV that would draw families to watch. I mean, it's a "family" show about fairy tales and "hope," right? Except that it's NOT anymore, and people have figured it out. It's grim and depressing and upsetting. 

Exactly.  4A, with its Frozen characters, was the last time the show was fun.  From 4B and on, it's been consistently dark and unpleasant. 

Edited November 14, 2016 by Mathius

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, Mathius said:

Disagree - many people liked the past two episodes.

This forum isn't really a gauge of the general fanbase, imo.

[maryle]

It is not a particularly episode that can explain a trend there since the beginning of the season. 

The commun thing is the EQ storyline, the Rumbelle soap, the lackluster Untold story and Savior mythology.  

The truth is this season is not really good, repetitive and the EQ was and still over hype.  

[orza]

Season 5 was pretty bad and didn't give many viewers a reason to return to the show. That also influences the ratings for this season.

[Souris]

The ratings for the season 6 premiere were on par with the season 5 finale, so the same amount of people actually did return to the show. However, they started tuning out as season 6 progressed. 

[orza]

The beginning of season 6 was mostly just more of the same of what we had at the end of season 5 so that would be a turn-off for viewers who didn't care for season 5.