Ratings and Scheduling: Who's the fairest of them all?

[Souris]

Given the rest of ABC's ratings woes, I may have to revise my prediction from a shortened S7 (which I'd prefer) to a full S7.

I can't shake this image in my head of the ABC execs blowing on the ratings sparks of Designated Survivor & Speechless like dehydrated Survivor contestants, trying to stoke them into a raging fire they can sustain.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Souris

[jjjmoss]

ABC drama hierarchy so far, with the obvious missing piece of Scandal:

Grey's 2.2

Designated Survivor 1.6

Murder 1.2

Once Upon a Time 1.1

Quantico 1.0

Notorious + Shield + Secrets and Lies + Conviction 0.9

[Mathius]

Once will end this year below 0.9, most likely.  The main reason it will likely get one last season is because ABC doesn't want to cancel too many shows at once, and will probably choose to cancel shows like Notorious and Conviction before they cancel Once.

[TheGreenKnight]

I think it's likely HtGAwM and DS will end the year below 0.9, too....

[Shanna Marie]

Notorious and Conviction are starting that low, not in their sixth seasons. I suppose since they've only had 1-2 episodes they could rise, but the word of mouth I've been hearing isn't good for either, so I wouldn't count on them building an audience.

[Tiger]

All of ABC's are seeing huge increases in +7 for premeire week, and +3 for week two thus far.

People are still watching ABC, just not live.  I suppose were gping to see even more, and even more blatant, in show advertising. 

Heh, we'll finally get to Aladdin & Jasmin, but all they'll do is wish Emma a new 2017 Volkswagen, and Aladdin will talk about its feagures as Jasmin drapes herself on it like a model on The Price is Right.

[YaddaYadda]

22 minutes ago, Tiger said:

 

All of ABC's are seeing huge increases in +7 for premeire week, and +3 for week two thus far.

People are still watching ABC, just not live.  I suppose were gping to see even more, and even more blatant, in show advertising. 

Is there a link for this? Please and thank you!

[Tiger]

12 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Is there a link for this? Please and thank you!

I cant copy and paste links on my phone, but go to tvbythenumbers.com, scroll down and you'll find the charts for top 20 demo and total viewer increases for week 1 live+7 and week 2 live+3.

[maryle]

I am happy for 1.3 and still believe it will stay that or 1.2 for the following episode.  The Aladdin and the Nemo after Will be more interesting but I still think the floor will protect them for now.

I love the episode so it help to be optimistic!

[Hookian]

1.3 in the ratings. It also seemed mostly genuine rise and not one that was influenced by the debate much.

[YaddaYadda]

This is great. It was a really good episode, and I'm glad the ratings went up for it. I'm willing to bet it has to do with Cinderella coming back. She is a character people know and recognize. 

Edited October 10, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Mathius]

I think it was both Cinderella's familiarity (for families with kids in particular) ad the CS stuff that got spoiled from NYCC that did it.

[Tiger]

5 hours ago, maryle said:

I am happy for 1.3 and still believe it will stay that or 1.2 for the following episode.  The Aladdin and the Nemo after Will be more interesting but I still think the floor will protect them for now.

I love the episode so it help to be optimistic!

Theyre doing a Finding Nemo episode?!?

[Mathius]

4 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Theyre doing a Finding Nemo episode?!?

Lol, no, they're doing a Captain Nemo episode, from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.

[Souris]

According to here, the ep held onto the viewers the entire ep (even rose a tiny fraction, 1.325 to 1.329).

[TheGreenKnight]

It was definitely due to Cinderella.

[Rumsy4]

And not CS at all. ;-)

59 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Theyre doing a Finding Nemo episode?!?

That's already in the Show: Rumple and Baelfire. hehe

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

That's already in the Show: Rumple and Baelfire. hehe

Belle makes an interesting Dory. Just replace "just keep swimming" with "there's good in your heart".

Edited October 10, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Did they have Cinderella and the Evil Stepsister in the Promo?  The freeze-frame on the video had The Evil Queen, who sort of looked like Coriander or whatever her name was.

[YaddaYadda]

They had Ashley carrying the rifle and Emma asking Thomas about Cinderella killing her evil step-sister.

[Camera One]

Thanks.  I just watched the promo, and it was pretty much all about Cinderella, except for the tacked on "And there are more untold stories coming up... including Aladdin and Jasmine".  Looks like they realized they needed to remind people that Aladdin WILL eventually return so don't give up on the show yet.

[TheGreenKnight]

4 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

And not CS at all. ;-)

Yep. :)

But, really, I have a hard time believing CS had anything to do with it? Cinderella was what was advertised. Similar to the boost for Ariel, Frozen, etc.

Edited October 11, 2016 by TheGreenKnight

[maryle]

Discussing after Rating is always funny because it is always colored with the biais. But fact is the Regina centric lost viewer in the half just like the final Regina heavy. This episode held or even improve in the second half. It is telling something no matter what.

And, this episode was screen before. I do believe g. a knew that Emma and co. will be helping Cinderella. 

I mean it was the resume they gave away to the media and as general audience a lot of time it is what I looked to know about a episode.

Edited October 11, 2016 by maryle
Spelling

[Trini]

3 hours ago, Mathius said:

3 hours ago, Tiger said:

Theyre doing a Finding Nemo episode?!?

Lol, no, they're doing a Captain Nemo episode, from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.

I wouldn't put it past them to reference it, though...

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I wouldn't put it past them to reference it, though...

Emma: "Wait? Nemo? You mean like that fish movie?"
Henry (rolls eyes): "It's obviously the Jules Verne version, mom. See, he's in my book."

[TheGreenKnight]

4 hours ago, maryle said:

Discussing after Rating is always funny because it is always colored with the biais. But fact is the Regina centric lost viewer in the half just like the final Regina heavy. This episode held or even improve in the second half. It is telling something no matter what.

Clearly. But 1) this episode was not a CS centric. It was a Cinderella centric. And 2) the episode last week featured The Count of Monte Cristo, which let’s not pretend is even in the same realm of common knowledge as “Cinderella,” not even speaking of the fact that the latter is a fairy tale that makes more sense being on OUAT in the first place.

[KAOS Agent]

Last week was very much the same Snowing vs the Evil Queen we've seen since the beginning of the show. That's been old for at least three seasons now. The individual characters may not turn off a casual viewers, but having nothing new to hold their attention is exactly why a good chunk of the audience changed channels midway through. On the other hand, Cinderella carrying a shotgun with a more upbeat and adventurous storyline is something that people might like to see play out. Add in some fun with Hyde, Dr. Frankenstein and Jekyll and it's like a breath of fresh air. Less angst, more fun. It's interesting that this episode did so much better since at least in my time zone, it didn't even air until 9 pm.

[Mathius]

Yeah, I was just about to say that, whether they like or dislike Regina, many in the general audience are evidently not on board with the "Split Queen". The whole twist and cliffhanger of the Evil Queen in the S5 finale landed with pretty much a resounding "thud!", which is clearly this whole Aladdin thing got added to S6 and keeps getting promoted even when it hasn't properly gotten started yet. The Split Queen storyline is just not going to draw in high numbers, and this has less to do with Regina herself and everything to do with the plot...namely, that it's a really, really stupid plot.

Quote

this episode was not a CS centric. It was a Cinderella centric.

Technically, it was an Emma centric.  CS and Cinderella were both major factors, but on the whole it was about Emma.

As I said before, I think CS was a big draw for older viewers, but I agree that families with children tuned in for Cinderella and that made a difference.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Mathius

[TheGreenKnight]

I wasn't personally excited by TEQ at the end of last season, but the ratings have been consistent so far? There hasn't been a mass exodus like in 4B or 2B to make an assumption about what the general audience thinks of the TEQ storyline.

[Mathius]

There's been no mass exodus, no, but every GA source I've heard from was all "meh" on it.  The twist even got voted "most predictable" on I think TV Guide? It's not offensively bad or stupid like 2B and 4B, so there's less walking out, but there's no real passion either.  It says a lot when we had the Land of Untold Stories and Split Queen set up in the S5 finale, yet suddenly there's this entire Aladdin / Savior story arc going on as well, with Aladdin and Jasmine being marketed to no end.  This has literally never had to happen before, the next season hooks in season finales (the curse is broken and magic is coming, going to Neverland to save Henry from Peter Pan, Frozen, going to Camelot with Emma as the new Dark One) were enough.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Mathius

[TheGreenKnight]

I think the presence of Aladdin/Jasmine is easy enough to blame on the executives considering all the other changes this season. But, tbh, they were always going to market something--just like with Pan, Wizard of Oz, the Queens, etc. They've pretty much depended on external properties coming into the show for a while now to draw interest, and Hyde/Jekyll are not on the same level as those. Aladdin is pretty much all that was left. The finale was also voted the best ending to a lackluster season, btw.

[Camera One]

Quote

 

But, tbh, they were always going to market something--just like with Pan, Wizard of Oz, the Queens, etc.

The difference this season is that there was no hint of Aladdin in the Season 5 finale.  The Season 3 finale had the big tease of Elsa exiting the barn with a trail of ice.  The 4A finale featured the Queens of Darkness.  The 4B finale named Merlin.  The 5A finale showed the characters descending to the Underworld.  

So the original plan seemed to be to advertise The Evil Queen only.  Aladdin, Jafar and Jasmine seemed to be an idea that came up later, perhaps with realization that The Evil Queen and Mr. Hyde weren't big enough draws.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Camera One

[maryle]

The division in the fandom will always be a issue when discussing rating but I really believe there a assumption that Regina or EQ is a big draw when it is just never been proven rating wise and a underappreciated of Emma, snowing as a draw or CS for that fact.

I do believe that the season feelings of the last episode and Cinderella is a part of the retention of the viewer.

Another is that like season 1 Emma was out there trying to solve problem this time adding her boyfriend too that g.a. do enjoy. That was everyone was expected from this episode like everyone knows the next one is big on Rumbelle because it is told in the resume for next week.

[RedKeep]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

So the original plan seemed to be to advertise The Evil Queen only.  Aladdin, Jafar and Jasmine seemed to be an idea that came up later, perhaps with realization that The Evil Queen and Mr. Hyde weren't big enough draws.

I imagine the whole "untold stories" angle may factor into it as well since that didn't appear to create a lot of buzz either. At the end of the day many of the characters they're introducing with it just aren't as recognizable and marketable as Disney property. And how many fans or general viewers do we know that have been genuinely excited about the Jekyll/Hyde introduction in the season finale, regardless of which one of the established main characters his story has been tied to? I know I've personally seen more talk about Sam Witwer being cast to play one of them than about the characters themselves.

And while I don't necessarily doubt that (at least parts of the) general audience like(s) the Evil Queen, her fantastic costumes, the scene chewing, etc., etc... characters like that always work better in limited doses. Plus, I do think the writers severly miscalculated how unpopular the way they brought her return about would be. Outlaw Queen may not have had the loudest online fandom, but the backlash over Robin Hood's death as a very clunky setup for the Regina/EQ split in the s5 finale went far beyond those who considered themselves fans and shippers. And there's a reason why they were so quick to try and fix that mess as well as they could without losing face by actually reverting his death, I imagine.

[maryle]

The final rating for Sunday I think is 1,2

I really do not think that the demo will be lower than 1.0 maybe a couple of .9 in the spring because the core fans will still watch no matter what.

I admit I am here until the end maybe just skip some episode but mostly here. 

[Souris]

Once adjusted down to 1.2 & 4.11m viewers. Big adjustment but still better than last week.

[TheGreenKnight]

7 hours ago, maryle said:

The division in the fandom will always be a issue when discussing rating but I really believe there a assumption that Regina or EQ is a big draw when it is just never been proven rating wise and a underappreciated of Emma, snowing as a draw or CS for that fact.

No, what we’re arguing is the assumption that CS is responsible for the ratings lift, and I find that very difficult to find legitimate when Cinderella was what was advertised all week. And let’s be honest, it was a rise of .1 in the demo? Cinderella just looks more likely to have been responsible, imo, sorry that has to result in a huge argument.

[orza]

1 minute ago, TheGreenKnight said:

No, what we’re arguing is the assumption that CS is responsible for the ratings lift, and I find that very difficult to find legitimate when Cinderella was what was advertised all week. And let’s be honest, it was a rise of .1 in the demo? Cinderella just looks more likely to have been responsible, imo, sorry that has to result in a huge argument.

Yes, the increase is not that much. It could also be because CBS, among other networks, didn't air new episodes of its shows so there wasn't much else for people who were not interested in either football or politics to watch, or Monday was a school holiday for some kids and they got to stay up later to watch the whole episode, or a number of other things that didn't have a whole lot to do with the specific content of this episode. The reasons why people watch a show one week and not the next week are complicated.

[InsertWordHere]

I'm inclined to believe it was more due to Cinderella than CS. The GA doesn't follow NYCC spoilers. Maybe some people checked out the episode description on their DVRs, which mentioned Emma taking the next step with Hook, but I really don't think it would have been a huge amount. 

[Rumsy4]

I think some of the GA visit Facebook at least. I know a couple of CSers who only came back to watch this episode. Cinderella's return probably had a lot to do with the slightly higher rating, but I think this being Emma centric with CS scenes helped. However, there's no way to know for sure one way or the other.

[tri4335]

I'd speculate that these are folks who left the show because they either don't like TEQ or LoUS and came back because they either say the Cinderella promos, the CS spoilers or had a random Sunday free. What they are not is new viewers and I don't see this show attracting any new viewers. It will bounce up and down by small margins until its end because mostly what is left is the diehards.  Each die hard will decide if they stay to the bitter end or encounter an episode that just completely sends them over the edge and allows them to ditch this show once and for all.

[ABitOFluff]

What's interesting to see is the fact that the show is getting very little promotion this year. If you watch ABC during the week (which I ended up doing while visiting my mother who has literally one channel in the guest room), chances are you won't see a commercial for Once until late Friday. So, even if you give the promotions of the Cinderella most of the credit, there was still very little of it. But, yes, I think her story brought some viewers back, but others were tuning in after the CS spoilers.

[Tiger]

5 minutes ago, ABitOFluff said:

What's interesting to see is the fact that the show is getting very little promotion this year. If you watch ABC during the week (which I ended up doing while visiting my mother who has literally one channel in the guest room), chances are you won't see a commercial for Once until late Friday. So, even if you give the promotions of the Cinderella most of the credit, there was still very little of it. But, yes, I think her story brought some viewers back, but others were tuning in after the CS spoilers.

ABC, I think more than the other nets, make it very clear which shows are priority given the allocation of promotional spots and other ventures.  

Its clear that Middle, Fresh off the Boat, Speechless, Blackish, Designated Survivor, and Greys are the nets top priorities now.  

The reality is Once blew it in 4A and has been in the dog house ever since.  Its also a six year old show with limited syndication prospects.  

Especially as ABC owns or co-owns Goldbergs, Speechless, Blackish, Housewife, Boat, and O'Neals, and is getting a peice of Middle's and LMS's syndication revenues, those shows are going to be pushed and saved over others that are not owned by the network or dont have syndication possibilities.

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, ABitOFluff said:

What's interesting to see is the fact that the show is getting very little promotion this year. If you watch ABC during the week (which I ended up doing while visiting my mother who has literally one channel in the guest room), chances are you won't see a commercial for Once until late Friday. So, even if you give the promotions of the Cinderella most of the credit, there was still very little of it. But, yes, I think her story brought some viewers back, but others were tuning in after the CS spoilers.

I have to disagree there. I saw the commercial several times throughout the week on ABC, and OUAT is the only show I really care about on the channel. During Dancing with the Stars, HtGAwM, etc. ABC always throws on ads for one of their shows during the commercial breaks of their other shows.

[Camera One]

I see #OnceUponaTime is trending on Twitter... hopefully online buzz is seen as a valuable asset for a TV show.  Still need to wait hours before I can watch it though, LOL.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Camera One

[RadioGirl27]

Initial ratings: 1.1 and 3.48 millions.

[sharky]

So lower than last week but not by much. The show definitely seems to have hit its constant now.

[jjjmoss]

Prelim series low for viewers.

Prelim season low for 18-49; 2 weeks ago 1.111, yesterday 1.055, 5% lower.

[Free]

4 hours ago, sharky said:

So lower than last week but not by much. The show definitely seems to have hit its constant now.

The show usually steadies itself for the first few weeks before dropping near the end and then when it comes back for the Spring, that's based on the pattern of its ratings for previous seasons.

[Tiger]

Apparantly it was live+same day series lows across the board for ABC.