S02.E09: The Diner

[jewel21]

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After uncovering a surprising connection to their past, Michael and Isobel learn the painful truth about the night Tripp attacked their mothers. Meanwhile, Alex confronts his father about their troubled family history. Elsewhere, Kyle's first date with Steph takes an awkward turn after Liz inadvertently becomes a third wheel.

Airdate: 05/11/2020

[Katesgr811]

This is the kind of pacing I need. And Jesse manes is garbage. Obviously.

[bettername2come]

31 minutes ago, Katesgr811 said:

This is the kind of pacing I need. And Jesse manes is garbage. Obviously.

Seriously. So much happened, that I was shocked the hour wasn't up. Mrs. Sheriff Valenti really grew on me this ep. I especially loved how she was so angry about the naked, mute children left in the desert. I really don't think there's been enough outrage over that in the previous material. Nathan Dean did some good work with her tonight between their diner scene and their talk at the police station where he told her all that Noah had done. I also appreciated Kyle's point about not lying to her and wanting to protect her from mental violation. I loved how they had Max tell her all true things without revealing too much. It was done better than a lot of half truths on TV are.

I'm not sure "the child" doesn't refer to Michael, not Max. Partially because I think that's who Nora would be focused on protecting, and partially because this is what I expect from Carina MacKenzie at this point.

I'm really happy that Tripp's not a bad guy. And he tipped young Arturo very well. I admit, that alone made me feel so much better about the guy even before he helped aliens escape. And good job making Jason Behr look old.

One thing I don't like is I feel like we're getting some recycled Vampire Diaries elements. The aliens' blood is the cure to everything. Here's this thing so the oblivious person is protected from mental manipulation. And for the last 3 weeks they've had one main human missing and I don't notice till the episode ends. And I honestly think tonight was the best episode of the show and then I realized who's missing and I am not happy about it and a little disappointed in myself.

Also, why do we not think that the reason aliens don't get sick is because they're a different species and maybe just can't catch human viruses rather than it being an evolutionary advantage? It seems the most obvious reason and I'm half-convinced Liz is going to really screw somebody up if injects some kind of alien vaccine into people. 

And I still need to know what's up with the alien abductions! Focus on that plot!

[AnimeMania]

3 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I'm not sure "the child" doesn't refer to Michael, not Max. Partially because I think that's who Nora would be focused on protecting, and partially because this is what I expect from Carina MacKenzie at this point.

[SNIP]

 

Also, why do we not think that the reason aliens don't get sick is because they're a different species and maybe just can't catch human viruses rather than it being an evolutionary advantage? It seems the most obvious reason and I'm half-convinced Liz is going to really screw somebody up if injects some kind of alien vaccine into people. 

Weird, the impression I got was that the Alien was pregnant and that the child that she wanted to protect hadn't been born yet.

There are two very sick people shown this episode, Kyle's new girlfriend and the old one-eyed dude. Maybe they can spare a little for Maria's mom as well.

[UNOSEZ]

Not bad.. Not bad.. Good work from everyone and almost everyone was enjoyable.. Cept Mike and Stephen.. Ugh the ANGST... Way too much... Figured daddy Manes was still up to no good... Glad trip turned out not to be a scumbag... If Louise survived maybe she did have a kid.. Loved Liz and Kyle being breezy... Isobel fainting was a hoot... 

[UNOSEZ]

11 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

got was that the Alien was pregnant and that the child that she wanted to protect hadn't been born yet.

That was the sense I got.. As the pod kids were "safe" in their pods.. But louise's kid would be in her belly.. 

 

26 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

And I honestly think tonight was the best episode of the show and then I realized who's missing and I am not happy about it and a little disappointed in myself.

I get where you're coming from.. But based on what we saw.. Maria wouldn't have had much to do this epi anyway.. She woulda listened to the story of the raid.. And maybe been in the diner when Alex found the pic of Older Louise... And other than just having them all be around each other... Her presence wouldn't have changed or impacted much.. Now if what some of us think is true.. ( that Louise not only survived.. Which we confirmed this week... But also had a kid..who would be some kind of ancestor to her )  Then Maria makes a ton more sense in upcoming episodes.. Where her presence has impact 

[shapeshifter]

So was Louise pregnant with Maria's half-extra-terrestrial mother?

ETA: Now that I've typed it, sounds like a soap opera, right? Like: "As Another World Turns"

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Cristofle]

7 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I'm not sure "the child" doesn't refer to Michael, not Max. Partially because I think that's who Nora would be focused on protecting, and partially because this is what I expect from Carina MacKenzie at this point.

Honestly, me too. I figured last year Max had been the one drawing on the wall, but at this point I expect her to forget Max exists and focus everything on Michael.

Also, this show seems to REALLY be overreacting to traumatized, terrified children drawing on walls, whichever one it was, but whatever. 

I'm not entirely surprised Tripp's "massacre" didn't go as they originally thought, because it seemed so unlike how he'd been the night of the alien crash. He didn't want his officers to shoot Nora or Louise. So he saved Louise somehow that night? 

It's comforting to get the impression that Jesse Manes is still evil after all. 

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I'm not sure "the child" doesn't refer to Michael, not Max. Partially because I think that's who Nora would be focused on protecting, and partially because this is what I expect from Carina MacKenzie at this point.

LOL at the last part. I was also thinking it was Michael. They were heavily implying it imo and, like you said, we all know CAM is obsessed with him. But, the spec that "The Child" was actually a baby Louise was pregnant with actually makes a lot more sense. Therefore, probably likely to not be true lol.

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And for the last 3 weeks they've had one main human missing and I don't notice till the episode ends. And I honestly think tonight was the best episode of the show and then I realized who's missing and I am not happy about it and a little disappointed in myself.

Wow, I actually was struggling to even think of who you were referring to here and that makes me sad and mad at myself. 

I straight-up loved this episode. Actual movement in the plot plus the characters actually interacting with each other as groups. More please!

My sister was like, they should do a spin-off with the 1947 gang and I feel that so hard. I love them. The Nora actress is really great in this part and, obviously, it's lovely seeing Gaius Charles and Jason Behr.

Man, that last scene with Walt and Michael really got to me. They were both great in that scene. I was really hoping Walt would hug Michael though.

Everything about Isobel at the police station was perfect. 

I loved the reveal, obvious as it was, that Todd is still super bad. Him just getting up and walking out fine and then going back for the cane was great. 

Kyle mentioning that Alex is one of the few people he can really count on made me squee tbh. Also, brief as it was, I loved the Kyle/Isobel interaction. Can they please just give up on Steph and put Kyle with Isobel or Alex? I'm begging! 

[Cristofle]

I can't get over the fact that it appears Tripp is the only person who treated Jesse (AKA Frodd) with any kindness in the Manes family and Jesse is so far gone, learning that Tripp wanted to help the aliens is not causing him to reflect on any of his life choices, but rather to assume Tripp was "soft" or something and to use the story to manipulate Alex so he can hurt more aliens. I feel bad for Alex in advance for when he finds out that even as he was trying to manipulate his father, his father was still playing him.

(I hope at some point, poor Trevor St. James finds a role where a key component of it is NOT being abusive to children)

Jason, Kayla, and Gaius continue to make me wish the bulk of the show was about 1947.

I did LOL at the brief look of abject horror on Kyle's face re: the possibility of Liz being his sister before Liz clarified that she'd checked their DNA. 

[Lady Calypso]

37 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

LOL at the last part. I was also thinking it was Michael. They were heavily implying it imo and, like you said, we all know CAM is obsessed with him. But, the spec that "The Child" was actually a baby Louise was pregnant with actually makes a lot more sense. Therefore, probably likely to not be true lol.

True. I know there's speculation about either Steph or Maria being Louise's grandchild at the beginning of the season. And, since they technically ruled out Maria with her having no alien DNA, I guess that brings us back to Mystery Woman Steph! Plus, hilarious that Kyle would be in a relationship with Max and Isobel's niece/sister (if Steph was put in a pod as well somehow). 

But that also doesn't mean that they're not hinting at Michael being the Special Alien instead of Max. They made it pretty obvious that some big Michael reveal is coming with Michael's speech about how everything revolves around Max and he's special and all that. That's pretty much a guarantee that Michael will be the special one by the season finale. I don't know how yet, but he will be. And...yeah, also, he's CAM's favourite so....

Overall, the episode was...weirdly edited, but I also didn't hate it? It wasn't awful, per say. It could have been done better with flowing the stories together in a more coherent way, but it wasn't a bad idea at all.

Nathan Dean really did well with his material. I'm so glad Kyle stood up to Liz and Isobel to tell them that, yes, Max DID kill Noah so his mother wasn't crazy and he wasn't going to stop protecting her just because. I'm glad Kyle got to tell Max to try to be a little honest, as it led to a nice scene with Max and Sheriff Valenti. It was also the first time I liked Sheriff Valenti.

Flashbacks galore! Of course Louise didn't die. It would be way too easy if she died. The flashbacks were so straight forward that I knew a twist was coming. The 1947 flashbacks are pretty good, but it looks like they're coming to an end; probably just one more episode with them to explain how Louise survived. I gotta assume that she's pregnant and her half alien child protected her. 

Speaking of the 1947 flashbacks, I don't want them to go away and if there's a twist where the gang time travels back to 1947 for season 3, I wouldn't be mad.

Also....I know there's the assumption that Louise is Max/Isobel's mother but do we know FOR SURE that she is? I briefly had that thought as I watched the episode.

Alex showed up...for a scene or two, I guess. I guess he was kind of helpful...in finding that photo of Louise and then also inadvertently giving his dad information that caused him to run out. I don't care about Jesse Manes and feel bad that the actor has gotten shit to do this season besides moaning in pain.

Walt was an interesting character to explore a little more. And I liked his scene with Michael. I hope for more Walt, and that he doesn't just die now that he's revealed some major secrets.

[peachmangosteen]

13 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

And, since they technically ruled out Maria with her having no alien DNA ...

See, I'm not sure they have entirely ruled that out. She doesn't have the protein (or whatever) that the 3 and Rosa have, but couldn't that just be because she was never in a pod? I think there's still a chance that component is related to the pods and less about whether someone is an alien or not. But maybe that's just because I actually want Maria to be part alien, especially if the other option is fucking Steph lol.

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Speaking of the 1947 flashbacks, I don't want them to go away and if there's a twist where the gang time travels back to 1947 for season 3, I wouldn't be mad.

Oh wow, I never even thought about that but now I'm gonna need it to happen.

Quote

Also....I know there's the assumption that Louise if Max/Isobel's mother but do we know FOR SURE that she is? I briefly had that thought as I watched the episode.

Yea, I still feel like I missed something with that reveal. It does feel like the characters just assumed it but I can't decide if we're supposed to take that as fact or think there's a chance their assumption is wrong. Or if I missed actual confirmation on it. Sometimes I can not make out what anyone is saying so this is possible!

[KittenPokerCheater]

A pretty good episode- I thought that last scene between Michael/the owner of the junkyard was really well done...until the actor cried.  It looked pretty over the top and like he was trying too hard.

I'm still not a fan of Steph.  It just feels like a random b plot, and I think Kyle deserves a better storyline.

Max/the Sheriff scenes were awesome.  It's great to see Max display something other than angst.

I don't understand how Tripp was such a good guy, Jesse Manes loved him, and yet somehow he missed the whole "aliens are good" message.  Can't wait to figure out how that hsppened.  And Jesse Manes is an utter tool..

[UNOSEZ]

50 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

don't understand how Tripp was such a good guy, Jesse Manes loved him, and yet somehow he missed the whole "aliens are good" message.  Can't wait to figure out how that hsppened.  And Jesse Manes is an utter tool..

Cuz Jesse didn't spend all his time with tripp...  He seems to have spent the bulk with Harlan.. Who seems like a Good Ol Boy.. And I think tripp  had to hide his more progressive views from the family most of the time.. Tho Harlan seems to know what's in his heart... Hence him keeping Jesse and tripp  apart as much as he could

 

55 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh wow, I never even thought about that but now I'm gonna need it to happen.

You me and everybody.. I said some weeks ago that A bi-racial/bi-species kid growing up in the 50's and 60's in America would be a hell of a story and still think so.. Well done right that is.. So not sure this staff could do it justice. 

 

55 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

See, I'm not sure they have entirely ruled that out

I don't think so either.. When Liz was nerd babbling she hadn't figured out how they got the alien stuff into humans.. Also all of the info in regards to Maria grandmoms and the experiments was lost in a fire ( maybe Thanks to tripp) I imagine next week will give us clear answers.. But it better not be Steph . Or ONLY Steph 

[Cristofle]

As far as I can tell, Michael was simply assuming Louise was Max and Isobel's mother. She was definitely the mother of one of the children in the pods going by the way she reacted to the soldiers coming near them, but in the books there were two other pods (Nikolas and Adam) and in the OG show there was one other pod (Tess). I don't know if we can guarantee we've seen all the pods with all the children. 

There is also no sure guarantee that Max and Isobel ARE biological siblings as of yet. They shared a pod in the books, but they didn't here. All we know is that their psychic bond is stronger than either of their bonds with Michael. 

[tennisgurl]

So after Michael hears that tragic tale of the pointless slaughter of innocent people, the tragic fate of his mother and the supposed death of her fellow alien, and this child who lost his only family and innocence...and all Michael hears is apparently "Blah Blah everything is about Max the whole universe is conspiring against me Marcia Marcia Marcia I mean Max Max Max" apparently. 

I do like Michael, but holy crap does that guy just love to be angsty. As soon as I heard the thing about The Child, I assumed that Louise (that was Louise right, I have trouble remembering which alien is which) was pregnant and she was running to escape with the child inside of her, not the kids who are relatively safe in their pods. Or she had a vision of Baby Yoda and was running to secure the copy rights to get that sweet sweet merch cash before Disney can get it. 

I thought this was a pretty good episode, although I felt like at times they were trying to make this more stylistic than it turned out to be. I liked the 1947 flashbacks a lot, and we got a lot of good interactions between the cast this week, even Sheriff Valenti got some good material. I really liked her scenes with Max, especially her saying how upset she was finding the kids in the desert and how frustrated she was that she never found out what happened to them, and I love that Alex found a way to get Max out of trouble while also giving his mom some closure so she didn't think she was going crazy, and that he kept Isobel from messing with her brain. 

Isobel at the police station was a blast, especially her dramatic falls and her "Totally ok! No worries!" reaction. She does need to really chill out with the mind screwing, have we not learned that this is a bad idea to do as plan A? 

I suspected that Trip might turn out not to be such a bad guy, and when he gave young Arturo a big tip and some words of encouragement, I figured that he might be an alright guy. Its too bad that young Jessie didn't spend more time with him, maybe he wouldn't be such a sack of crap now. I am happy that Kyle found out that at least one member of his family wasn't a total asshole. 

I dont hate Kyle's new girlfriend, but he seems to be often stuck in his own subplot with her, which I dont like. Hopefully at least with Liz trying to treat whatever she has with alien blood, that will draw them more into the main story. 

The scenes with Michael and the grown up kid really got me, especially when he said that he tried to adopt him but they wouldn't let him, I would think that it would at least mean something to Michael that he tried. 

Not surprising that Jessie is still an asshole, poor Alex. He tries with his dad, even knowing what garbage he is, and dad is just using him.

[Cristofle]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

So after Michael hears that tragic tale of the pointless slaughter of innocent people, the tragic fate of his mother and the supposed death of her fellow alien, and this child who lost his only family and innocence...and all Michael hears is apparently "Blah Blah everything is about Max the whole universe is conspiring against me Marcia Marcia Marcia I mean Max Max Max" apparently. 

I'm trying to figure out if Carina genuinely think Michael has some sort of legitimate beef with Max, either as "the savior" or because apparently he was the one drawing on the walls (as opposed to both Diane and Michelle HELLA overreacting to traumatized children drawing on walls). And sadly, I think she might feel that way, because she's obsessed with Michael. But the more she does this, the more Michael starts to grate as far as I'm concerned.

Also, she obsessively talked about that final scene with Michael and Sanders/Walt as like, the best scene she's ever done, and that was...not...the best...scene...of the...episode...? Let alone the show? I was more struck by Nora seeing Louise get shot, and Max and the sheriff's final scene.

[tabularasa]

I worry that Carina's preference for Michael might be detrimental. In the OG I liked him and Max got on my nerves but in this version Max is an OK character. I even believe he and Liz get too little of storyline now. Also I kind of accepted long time ago that Max was the special one and that's how it is. Honestly, I'm not sold on Michael's actor, the previous one worked better on me. Maybe it was because I was young.

[peachmangosteen]

So much happened in this ep that I forgot about Max having the same thing on his neck that Jenna had. What is that about?

[AnimeMania]

Just now, peachmangosteen said:

So much happened in this ep that I forgot about Max having the same thing on his neck that Jenna had. What is that about?

Probably a taser mark, since nobody appears to have been abducted by any aliens, yet.

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

So much happened in this ep that I forgot about Max having the same thing on his neck that Jenna had. What is that about?

I wonder if Max tried to heal her and took on whatever it was they injected into her?

[sweetandsour]

I never want to hear what a "Manes man" would or would not do, ever again in my life.  They're saying it so much on this show (at least Alex does it sarcastically).  Sure, it's in keeping with the toxic masculinity of that family, but ugh.

To take the edge off, I just think about a far more enjoyable version from "Scent of a Woman" during Big Al's monologue at the disciplinary hearing.

"You think you're merely sendin' this splendid foot-soldier back home to Oregon with his tail between his legs, but I say you are executin' his SOUL!! And why?! Because he's not a Baird man! Baird men, ya hurt this boy, you're going to be Baird Bums, the lot of ya."

[RachelKM]

Holy shit these people have absolutely NO respect for medical privacy.  A handful of hours after (justifiably) taking Kyle to task for looking at Steph's medical records, Liz steals a sample of her DNA.  WTF, you dicks?  Also?  Liz, why the ever loving fuck are you running around with your super secret alien biology research in a folder which you casually read and leave lying around in view of anyone who may walk by?  Fucking Fort Knox of information, that one.

I didn't dislike Stephanie this episode.  But I'm still not enthusiastic about her and feel like her story keeps Kyle too removed from the rest of the cast. I was, however, 100% on her side regarding Kyle bailing on her for the better part of 10 min to have an argument with Liz in the kitchen (but still in view of Steph).  Super rude.  At least she got to call him on it.  Also, I was waiting for those burgers to burn.... good god.

On 5/12/2020 at 8:51 PM, sweetandsour said:

I never want to hear what a "Manes man" would or would not do, ever again in my life.  They're saying it so much on this show (at least Alex does it sarcastically).  Sure, it's in keeping with the toxic masculinity of that family, but ugh.

Agreed. It's fucking annoying.  

Alex was ... fine I guess.  I winced, however, when he was in a scene with Michael. I've really grown to loathe their dynamic. I was extra salty about it when I realized Maria wasn't going to appear in this episode. 

On 5/12/2020 at 7:19 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Also....I know there's the assumption that Louise is Max/Isobel's mother but do we know FOR SURE that she is? I briefly had that thought as I watched the episode.

I have been wondering this too.  Even when Isobel just saw her in Maria's mind, I was sort of baffled how she decided that the woman in Maria's vision was her mom.

Add me to those who suspected that "the child" referenced was the child Louise was pregnant with.  

On 5/12/2020 at 8:45 AM, tennisgurl said:

.and all Michael hears is apparently "Blah Blah everything is about Max the whole universe is conspiring against me Marcia Marcia Marcia I mean Max Max Max" apparently. 

This.  Seriously Michael?  You just learned that your boss loved and was cared for by your mother and spent his life checking on the PodSquad, and all you hear is "everything revolves around Max"?  Ugh.  Shut it, you petulant brat.

Edited May 14, 2020 by RachelKM

[UNOSEZ]

3 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Alex was ... fine I guess.  I winced, however, when he was in a scene with Michael. I've really grown to loathe their dynamic. I was extra salty about it when I realized Maria wasn't going to appear in this episode.

Actually I was glad... I didn't wanna see a driven successful woman stop whatever she was doing to run to the aid of the underacheiving emotionally stunted genius/ town drunk with rage issues... To be a sounding board while he made a story about a mini-massacre that ripped a nascent family (of ppl/who had been pushed to the margins... Something ostensibly he should relate to)  and got his mother put away for life.. All about his inferiority complex in regards to Max... And that's before we add in the racial component so.. Let Alex be the one dishing out chicken soup for the soul

[AnimeMania]

That story that Walt told about what happened in the past, did it make any sense? How many people were lying dead by the time he finished. In a small town, that would be huge news. And then that gigantic explosion looked like a mini nuclear bomb. Maybe they shouldn't have given him unlimited drinks.

[Scarlett45]

6 hours ago, RachelKM said:

This.  Seriously Michael?  You just learned that your boss loed and was cared fr by your mother and spent his life checking on the PodSquad, and all you hear is "everything revolves around Max"?  Ugh.  Shut it, you petulant brat.

Ha! Very true. 
 

I too thought “the child” was a child in utero. If Louise was the only one who could protect it likely because it was inside of her uterus. 

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

That story that Walt told about what happened in the past, did it make any sense? How many people were lying dead by the time he finished. In a small town, that would be huge news. And then that gigantic explosion looked like a mini nuclear bomb. Maybe they shouldn't have given him unlimited drinks.

Well the government can over up things. They could’ve claimed it was a gas explosion or something. They would’ve had to explain the bodies but not how they died. 

[Cristofle]

20 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I too thought “the child” was a child in utero. If Louise was the only one who could protect it likely because it was inside of her uterus. 

I sincerely hope so because if it's Michael, I'm going to get even more annoyed and I'm already annoyed, lol. I was annoyed when Alex was all "You asked me to" in response to Michael seeming surprised he showed up. Get yourself together, Alex. You can do better than this. 

I think that in 2x03, Forrest indicated hearing some sort of story about what happened that night - a fire or something? And he was under the impression it was due to the Long farm secretly hiding Nazis. So that was a known story- it just wasn't true.

[peachmangosteen]

15 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Probably a taser mark, since nobody appears to have been abducted by any aliens, yet.

Possibly, but I don't see why they would make such a deal of showing it on Jenna and Max if that were the case.

 

5 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Actually I was glad... I didn't wanna see a driven successful woman stop whatever she was doing to run to the aid of the underacheiving emotionally stunted genius/ town drunk with rage issues... 

 

1 hour ago, Cristofle said:

Get yourself together, Alex. You can do better than this. 

Do they realize how they're making Alex look with this or do they just write this stuff and think, "Oh wow, look how dreamy Michael and Alex are!" with heart eyes?

[KittenPokerCheater]

Just when I thought there was a teeny tiny shot that Daddy Manrd could be redeemed....  The actor himself is a pretty good guy, so I was predisposed to give the character a shot- now I'm hoping for some more comeuppance.

 

8 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Alex was ... fine I guess.  I winced, however, when he was in a scene with Michael. I've really grown to loathe their dynamic.

Yes to this.  Alex deserves better.  I'm fine if they remain friends, but I don't want them together

I like Michael with a chip on his shoulder but this was over the top. I think even Isobel said to him something like "you're always looking for a reason to be angry."  I'd rather him be angry/damaged about what happened to him before he emancipated himself (would like to  see that as an episode).  I want him to stop with the Marcia Marcia Marcia and just be family with Max.

[Cristofle]

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I like Michael with a chip on his shoulder but this was over the top. I think even Isobel said to him something like "you're always looking for a reason to be angry."  I'd rather him be angry/damaged about what happened to him before he emancipated himself (would like to  see that as an episode).  I want him to stop with the Marcia Marcia Marcia and just be family with Max.

I think part of the thing of the OG show versus this is that Michael is too old to still be this immaturely and irrationally resentful of Max for...I don't even know what he's decided Max did here. It's not Max's fault he was drawing on the walls, it's not Max's fault Michael took the crayon, it's not Max's fault he was adopted and not Michael, it's not Max's fault Noah told him he's the savior (something that has freaked Max out to the point of being tormented about it in his quasi afterlife hellscape). And if Michael were 16 years old, I'd get the irrational anger. Michael is damn near 30, so again, get yourself together dude. 

[RachelKM]

3 hours ago, Cristofle said:

I think part of the thing of the OG show versus this is that Michael is too old to still be this immaturely and irrationally resentful of Max

Yes.  The decision to age them all up a decade but still have the same basic relationships and connections is not wearing well on several of the characters and their interactions.

Max comes across as a little creepy obsessive since Liz was gone for a DECADE and they were never more than friends. 

Similarly, Kyle still being moderately hung up on his high school girl friend who left town a decade before and he apparently had enough of a life to go to med school is sad. 

Alex being broody over Michael is apparently his raison d'etre, so ... kewl.

And Michael is still sulking and drinking away his angst that nobody loves him and he never had a family while pushing away Max's attempts to be his family.

And though a different issue, Liz has absolutely no ability to perceive other people's perspectives unless literally yelled at her and even then she assumes her way is right.  Her inability to comprehend that she might not be right in all things and that being dogmatic when the other person involved really wants you to stay out of it is selfish and is not a good look on a near 30 year old woman.

Isobel and Maria are the only members of the group who seem to have become adults... apparently to Maria's detriment in storyline. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by RachelKM

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Yes.  The decision to age them all up a decade but still have the same basic relationships and connections is not wearing well on several of the characters and their interactions.

Max comes across as a little creepy obsessive since Liz was gone for a DECADE and they were never more than friends. 

Similarly, Kyle still being moderately hung up on his high school girl friend who left town a decade before and he apparently had enough of a life to go to med school is sad. 

Alex being broody over Michael is apparently his raison d'etre, so ... kewl.

And Michael is still sulking and drinking away his angst that nobody loves him and he never had a family while pushing away Max's attempts to be his family.

And though a different issue, Liz has absolutely no ability to perceive other people's perspectives unless literally yelled at her and even then she assumes her way is right.  Her inability to comprehend that she might not be right in all things and that being dogmatic when the other person involved really wants you to stay out of it is selfish is not a good look on a near 30 year old woman.

Isobel and Maria are the only members of the group who seem to have become adults... apparently to Maria's detriment in storyline. 

Exactly, @RachelKM. I wish you could be a consultant for the show.

It's like Max, Kyle, Alex, and Liz have some sort of extra-terrestrial bugs taking up space in the parts of their brains that deal with mature thinking.

[Cristofle]

Max's whole thing last season about never having been happy for a day since Liz was gone was...concerning. It could have worked just as well if seeing her had brought back a rush of dormant feelings, rather than him fixating on it for all of his 20s. Max is doing better this season, but sadly, that may be because Carina isn't focusing on him as much, heh. But Michael is doing a lot worse, and Liz, Kyle, and Alex aren't doing any better. And Michael's anger at Max bothers me, because Max was a traumatized child who at this point was fairly clearly abused prior to being put in the pod - acting as if Max has done something to Michael, or owes him something, is a really creepy attitude. If Max is "the savior", if that's why he was in the upper class, if that's why he was locked up and chained to the ground and frightened by seemingly Fire Guy, that is not a halo, it's a target. Nothing they know about this suggests Max is any better off for this perceived status, and Michael is old enough to comprehend that, so his jealousy is even more ridiculous than it's been in the past. 

[RachelKM]

28 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Exactly, @RachelKM. I wish you could be a consultant for the show.

That's sweet.  Thank you.  But I don't want to go to jail for murder which would be the inevitable result of me being within strangling or poisoning distance of Carina if she tried to defend her Michael/Alex choices. 

[Cristofle]

I keep forgetting to say - I think this was the first time Alex and Isobel have directly interacted. It would be nice if they could be friends, because they have always been important to each other in the larger Roswell mythology.