S01.E18: If You Believe In Me, I'll Believe in You

[Trini]

Batwoman enlists Luke and Julia (guest star Christina Wolfe) for an undercover mission to recover one of the most important items from her cousin's arsenal. While Alice continues developing her devious plans within Arkham's walls, she gets an unexpected visit from Jacob Kane who needs her help. Meanwhile, Mary tries to prove herself to Kate. As Sophie gets closer to a co-worker, Kate reunites with an old flame.

James Bamford directed the episode written by James Stoteraux and Chad Fiveash. 

Airdate: 5/3/2020

[bettername2come]

I knew Regan couldn't be trusted! When a two-episode love interest returns unexpectedly, it's for devious plot twists. Although she was less evil than I thought she'd turn out to be.

I feel like my opinion on the Mary/Kate relationship was pretty spot on. Again, I'm happy to see more of it. Glad Mary got to be a badass and save Kate in a non-medical capacity. 

I just realized Magpie is from Happy Death Day and now I'm much more excited for her character.

[AnimeMania]

The fight scenes in this episode were a lot brighter than the ones from other episodes. I could see everything that was going on and the fight scenes were exquisite. Now I wonder if all the previous episodes had fights just as good and I just couldn't see them.

The journal was on a glass table you could have looked through the bottom of the table to see if the journal was booby trapped.

Mary going to the mafia meeting as herself, she should be dead in a matter of days if this was real life.

[quarks]

1. Mary is my favorite part of this show, hands down, and Alice/Mouse, none of your plans are to come anywhere near her. You got it?

Especially since she now presumably has a large Mafia target on her back...

2. Second runner-up: Lucius Fox, who not only manages to secure entire buildings from bombs, but also writes everything down in code.

I'll just say it: I am so hoping that the main second/third season twist will be that he's not really dead. 

3. I gotta agree with Mouse here: it seriously sucks when you go to all that effort, right down to

Spoiler

essentially creating one of the major Batman villains ,

only to find that you've got to do massive amounts of codebreaking, like, seriously? After all that?

3. Awwww, Regan turns out to be the sister of one of the villains - an easily blackmailed/manipulated sister, at that.

4. I gotta say, though, impressive backup planning on the part of Magpie, to have her sister manage to grab a bar job just in time to be in place to seduce Kate again.  And equally impressive luck that Kate just happened to be in a place where she could be easily seduced.

5. Speaking of Kate, yay on reasonable rent costs! Now that's the sort of heroism I can definitely get behind.

6. At this point I'm actively rooting for Jacob to die in the season finale, thus increasing my regrets that Batwoman wasn't able to film one. 

[Lantern7]

This was a comedy disguised as action-packed. Seriously, the only thing missing at the end when Alice discovered that Lucius Fox's book was written entirely in code was a "WAH. WAH. WAH. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH" sting.

Mary is now part of the Bat Team, though Kate and Luke's objections were entirely justified. You have to get her points for getting dressed up, hitting the club, crashing the "auction," and offering $10 million to buy a captive Batwoman. We also got to see Luke do the "First rule of Bat Team is you do NOT talk about Bat Team!" thing . . . and then he revealed that Bruce Wayne was Batman. WAH. WAH. WAH. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

Regan's back! And she and Kate have a steamy hookup! And then steals the plot device book and hands it to Magpie! Okay, that part sucked, but it was really hot. Honestly, though, I don't expect Kate to hook up with every woman she meets that leans in her direction. I'm certain that during COIE, nothing happened between Kate and Sara Lance, and they were stuck in the same place for who knows how long.

[thuganomics85]

Understandable that Kate would still be hesitant over Mary officially joining Team Batwoman (even though, as Mary rightfully pointed out, she's already been getting into dangerous situations before she knew), but I'm glad that Mary helped save the day, and Kate is already realizing that Mary can take care of herself.  She even got her visit to the Batcave!  Yay, Mary!  Although, maybe leave the phone behind next time.  I get the impulse to want to take pictures, but that does defeat the purpose about the whole secrecy thing.

Reagan makes a return and Kate gets a nice steamy hook-up with her, only to be betrayed, because it turns out that Reagan is totally Magpie's sister!  Twist!  It did sound like she wasn't happy about what she did, but it's probably too late to really fix anything.  Kate really is not having luck with girlfriends, is she?

Speaking of which, it certainly seems like Julia is into some shady shit, as she apparently was kicked out of the SSR six months ago, and was actually trying to get the diary for some mysterious person.  Hopefully she will end up having a good reason for all of this, and isn't just evil now.

I know I shouldn't be siding with nutty murderer here, but if Jacob keeps up these half-assed attempts to try and work Alice, I'm going to keep rooting for her to make his life and the rest of the Black Crows a living hell, if/when she gets out.  Rachel Skarsten was great as always here.

Should have known that Lucius would have had his journal coded.  Go Mr. Fox!

Ruby Rose really seems to at her best during the comedic moments.  I found her goofy "club dancing" in the cave highly amusing, and I also loved her petty mimicking of Julia, when she found out she and Sophie have been getting close.  I'm sure it will all end up being some soapy drama, but I kind of like Jealous Kate.

Definitely could tell this was directed by James Bamford, due to the long takes, but also the shaky camera work.  Meh.

If Bruce ever does return, he's probably going to wonder why everyone in Gotham knows he's Batman, at the rate that secret has been coming out.

Looks like Thomas Elliot is going to go full-blown Hush now! 

[RobertDeSneero]

Reagan appeared in the same episode that Magpie debuted, so was it always the plan for them to be sisters or did they just bring back a character/actress that they liked?

How long before Mary gets the upgrade to competent combatant that usually occurs in a period that has some observers whining that it is too short?

Who is Julia talking to?  Her father?  Or maybe Bruce Wayne isn't dead.  Or maybe it's some mysterious organization that won't be revealed until halfway through next season.

[AnimeMania]

10 hours ago, quarks said:

3. Awwww, Regan turns out to be the sister of one of the villains - an easily blackmailed/manipulated sister, at that.

Is Regan really a poor bartender, she should have plenty of loot being the partner of a successful crook.

[Starry]

I died when Luke started lecturing Mary about not snapping pictures and keeping Kate's secret only to spill that Bruce Wayne is Batman.

Unpopular opinion, I didn't enjoy Mary's plot and her need to prove that she's worthy to be a part of a team that consists of two people only. I don't know if in the comics Mary is a costumed hero who is on Team Batwoman and that's why they are pushing it but I think that a character can be a valuable asset/ally without going through some sort of test or get a team membership card. But that may be my aversion for the Arrowverse team formula talking.

I liked the Kate and Mary heart-to-heart. That was sweet.

Props to the writers for letting the "perfect" girlfriend with stalker-ish tendencies be shady. Reagan may not be a villain ( it looks like she has a conscience ) but her involvement with Magpie makes her slightly more interesting.

Speaking of shady people, I don't know what Julia's deal is but I was enjoying her flirtatious friendship with Sophie. That's too bad.

I liked Kate's jealousy/pettiness but I also felt bad for her. She looked genuinely hurt that Sophie was confiding in Julia and not her.

Jacob was ice cold to Beth/Alice.

Loved Alice and Mouse's plot with Tommy and the various twists.

[tennisgurl]

Mary is so excited to join Kate's superhero team, she is about to design her own little Robin outfit! I can get why Kate is reluctant to let Mary fully into the fold and out into the field, especially so soon after Beth died and with all of her Alice issues, but, as Mary said, she is already in danger, being both a Hamilton, Kate's sister, and a citizen of Gotham, which is always going to be a risky prospect. Mary at the evil auction was fun, but I do worry that there could be consequences. Now some very bad scary people know that Mary Hamilton is working with Batwoman right? This is why we wear masks! 

Oh Luke. Whoops, Bruce Wayne who? Although really, if Mary is joining the team, she is going to find out who Batman really is sooner or later anyway, might as well just let her know whats up now. 

Poor Kate, I liked Reagan and they seemed like they could be a nice couple, so of course she would turn out to be evil or die tragically. Although at least she doesn't seem to be fully evil, and she did like Kate and maybe even feel bad about lying to and stealing from Kate, but sisters before misses I guess. I should have probably seen that connection with Magpie coming, she did show up first in the first episode with her, and now shows up again when she becomes prominent in the story for the second time. 

I like Julia, so I am hoping that she isn't a full bad guy, just morally ambiguous and with a dark past or something. So she isn't with her agency in the UK anymore? Is that why she is kickin it with Sophie and Kate, she is in hiding? Something clearly went down, and it makes me wonder how much we can trust her, but I dont think she is really a bad guy. The dynamic with Sophie, Kate, and Julia is awkward but also kind of fun. I still think that Kate will end up with Sophie eventually, I just hope Julia isn't a casualty of a love triangle. 

Lucius wrote everything in code! Oh yeah, thats why Lucius was Bruce's real best friend! The man always had a backup plan! 

Yeah, sucks when a plan doesn't come together, huh Mouse and Alice? Looks like Tommy is heading full on towards Hush territory now though, so thats...something? 

Kate lowered the rent for her renters? She really is the hero we deserve! 

[Samwise979]

Just pausing the episode to ask this. When Alice is talking to Tommy about Lucius's journal she asks "why's Bruce Wayne's R&D guy telling dear diary about that?" (The failsafe) and Tommy says because Bruce Wayne is Batman. Alice looks surprised. Was she surprised because she didn't know? (where'd she think Kate got all the bat stuff from?) Or was she surprised Tommy knew? Idk if it's important to the rest of the plot but I was just curious. Any thoughts?

[RobertDeSneero]

13 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Is Regan really a poor bartender, she should have plenty of loot being the partner of a successful crook.

Or she's a really good bartender, who can easily get a job in any place that her sister needs her to be. 

[Rushmoras]

Director: OK, guys, how to make the fight scenes even less coherent than usual?

Camera Operator:  We could use a lot of cuts, maybe more than in Taken and shake the camera all around?

Director: You get a raise.

And on the episode itself... can't say much. Now, after Alice is locked-up, the city lost its villain numero uno, and since she's plotting from Arkham, but that doesn't directly affect Kate... well... I don't really care. I'll start to care when she escapes and contacts Kate again.

[Rushmoras]

6 hours ago, Samwise979 said:

Alice looks surprised. Was she surprised because she didn't know? (where'd she think Kate got all the bat stuff from?) Or was she surprised Tommy knew? Idk if it's important to the rest of the plot but I was just curious. Any thoughts?

I think she was surprised that Bruce is Batman. I mean, in her mind, Kate could easily gotten the gear from any Dick, Joe and Harry, who could have been Batman. Still better plotline than Lex Luthor in S4, while in jail hundreds of miles away, knowing that Lena's BFF is Supergirl (Lena did not know), but not knowing who Clark Kent is.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Rushmoras

[BaggythePanther]

10 hours ago, Starry said:

Unpopular opinion, I didn't enjoy Mary's plot and her need to prove that she's worthy to be a part of a team that consists of two people only. I don't know if in the comics Mary is a costumed hero who is on Team Batwoman and that's why they are pushing it but I think that a character can be a valuable asset/ally without going through some sort of test or get a team membership card. But that may be my aversion for the Arrowverse team formula talking.

I love Mary, but I also don’t see why it’s necessary for her to be in the field. I kept waiting for someone to tell Mary she was the “team doctor” but not a part of the missions. I don’t think Mary has a direct comic counterpart but there is a character that is similar they could use if they ever want to put her in the field.

 

10 hours ago, Starry said:

I liked Kate's jealousy/pettiness but I also felt bad for her. She looked genuinely hurt that Sophie was confiding in Julia and not her.

Kate has basically told everyone else but Sophie that she’s Batwoman, so she really can’t complain about Sophie confiding in someone else. I’ve been enjoying Sophie and Julia’s dynamic so I hope Julia isn’t bad, but maybe being forced to do something she doesn’t want to, though I think she went full Oliver Queen on that women on the club right so it’s probably something big.

Love that Lucius’s diary is in code. The quick  glance they showed looks a little like speedforce language but I don’t think we’re getting that kind of crossover. 
 

6 minutes ago, Rushmoras said:

Still better plotline than Lex Luthor in S4, while in jail hundreds of miles away, knowing that Lena's BFF is Supergirl (Lena did not know),

To be fair, Lillian could have told him. She’s known since season two but chose not to tell Lena.

[Rushmoras]

1 hour ago, BaggythePanther said:

To be fair, Lillian could have told him. She’s known since season two but chose not to tell Lena.

But we never saw that. Also, why would she? Didn't she hate him in that original timeline? I mean, sure, they shared the same goals (aliens are bad and must be wiped out), but she tried to poison Lex drink. 😄

 

ADDENDUM: Plus, the reason why Lillian never told Lena is because she thought the betrayal would stung much worse, if Lena would figure it out by herself. So, again, no logic in telling Lex that.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Rushmoras

[Lantern7]

41 minutes ago, BaggythePanther said:

I love Mary, but I also don’t see why it’s necessary for her to be in the field. I kept waiting for someone to tell Mary she was the “team doctor” but not a part of the missions. I don’t think Mary has a direct comic counterpart but there is a character that is similar they could use if they ever want to put her in the field.

I can think of at least one counterpart. Besides, I don’t think Mary would remain happy to patch up Kate. I mean, if the closest counterpart to you in the near-infinite worlds of Batman is Thomas Lennon, wouldn’t you want more than that?

I kid. I’m just saying Mary is a plucky one, and she looks capable of maneuvering in impractical boots.

[Trini]

I liked that they reminded us that Gotham still has a lot of criminals/crime - not just the over-the-top, costumed psychos.

Loving Gabriel Mann as Tommy! Kind of sucks that we'll probably won't actually see his (Mann's) face again, though.

I guess it nice that Mary proved herself, but I don't really need her out in the field, though. Occasionally, but that's it.

Wasn't feeling Reagan before, but her association with Magpie is an interesting twist. Still 'meh' on Julia. And she seems to be involved in too many things.

 

On 5/4/2020 at 1:04 AM, Lantern7 said:

... We also got to see Luke do the "First rule of Bat Team is you do NOT talk about Bat Team!" thing . . . and then he revealed that Bruce Wayne was Batman. WAH. WAH. WAH. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

 

On 5/4/2020 at 1:30 AM, thuganomics85 said:

If Bruce ever does return, he's probably going to wonder why everyone in Gotham knows he's Batman, at the rate that secret has been coming out.

Seriously; somewhere out there, Bruce's eye is twitching! I especially side-eyed Tommy spilling it to Alice and Mouse of all people. Although, Luke slipping up was funny.

[AnimeMania]

9 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

23 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Is Regan really a poor bartender, she should have plenty of loot being the partner of a successful crook.

Or she's a really good bartender, who can easily get a job in any place that her sister needs her to be. 

Other than fancy galas, how many other places that have jewels to rob, need a bartender to case the joint?

[Lady Calypso]

21 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

Director: OK, guys, how to make the fight scenes even less coherent than usual?

Camera Operator:  We could use a lot of cuts, maybe more than in Taken and shake the camera all around?

Director: You get a raise.

And on the episode itself... can't say much. Now, after Alice is locked-up, the city lost its villain numero uno, and since she's plotting from Arkham, but that doesn't directly affect Kate... well... I don't really care. I'll start to care when she escapes and contacts Kate again.

I should have KNOWN the literal nausea due to the shaky camera work was BamBam's design! But I guess I never expected him to move over to Batwoman after Arrow finished. I guess I should have known better.

This was a good episode, propelling some of the plots forward. I shouldn't be too surprised that Reagan was up to no good. Showing up out of the blue and having her and Kate get too close again? And then Kate spilling a lot of information that shouldn't be spilled? Yep, that solidified Reagan in the Up To No Good category. Her working with Magpie? I'm curious to see where it goes.

Tommy gets his face ripped off all to make it look like he's dead. Does that mean no more looking at Gabriel Mann anymore?

And Alice finds out that Bruce Wayne is Batman. I do like little scenes like that. They're fun to watch.

So, Mary wants to be out on the team. I'm not surprised Kate didn't want her to, and I can see why. However, I think it's also Kate's reluctance to even let her in to what she's doing that probably makes things hard. Mary wants to be involved, but Kate's shutting her out to protect her. I hope they find a good balance now that Mary's helped out. She can be in the know of what's going on and maybe she can come to weekly Team Batwoman meetings, but she doesn't need to be out on the field with Kate to be a member. Though...I do get that, in this case, she would have been useful at least to use as an "in" with the rich members.  

Too bad that they also make it seem like Julia is extra shady. I really like her and Sophie, but I've feared, with Julia's sudden increase in screen time, that she'll either die or be evil. 

Jacob continues to basically be useless. They could kill him offscreen and never mention him again, and I likely wouldn't notice.

[BaggythePanther]

20 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I can think of at least one counterpart. Besides, I don’t think Mary would remain happy to patch up Kate. I mean, if the closest counterpart to you in the near-infinite worlds of Batman is Thomas Lennon, wouldn’t you want more than that?

I’m a wuss, so I’d have no problem hanging out in the Batcave patching up injuries. But Mary wants to be where the action is at, so I guess that’s not going to happen. Is the counterpart your thinking of

Spoiler

Bette Kane, Flamebird?

 

On 5/4/2020 at 12:30 AM, thuganomics85 said:

If Bruce ever does return, he's probably going to wonder why everyone in Gotham knows he's Batman, at the rate that secret has been coming out.

Not to mention the Paragons from Crisis.

[Trini]

When was the last time a main character got immediately screwed over by someone they had sex with, in DCTV? (Or CW?) I feel like I haven't seen this trope in a while.

[quarks]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

When was the last time a main character got immediately screwed over by someone they had sex with, in DCTV? (Or CW?) I feel like I haven't seen this trope in a while.

The 100 did this at least once last season,

Spoiler

in "The Face Behind the Glass," when the guy Clarke sleeps with turns out to be a spy who shoots her with a tranquilizer moments later, and then, because this is The 100, he dies.

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by quarks
spoilers for The 100

[Joe Hellandback]

On 5/4/2020 at 4:32 AM, AnimeMania said:

The fight scenes in this episode were a lot brighter than the ones from other episodes. I could see everything that was going on and the fight scenes were exquisite. Now I wonder if all the previous episodes had fights just as good and I just couldn't see them.

The journal was on a glass table you could have looked through the bottom of the table to see if the journal was booby trapped.

Mary going to the mafia meeting as herself, she should be dead in a matter of days if this was real life.

It seems they were all arrested afterwards and everyone probably wasn't sure who was responsible in all the confusion, 

On 5/4/2020 at 5:58 AM, quarks said:

1. Mary is my favorite part of this show, hands down, and Alice/Mouse, none of your plans are to come anywhere near her. You got it?

Especially since she now presumably has a large Mafia target on her back...

2. Second runner-up: Lucius Fox, who not only manages to secure entire buildings from bombs, but also writes everything down in code.

I'll just say it: I am so hoping that the main second/third season twist will be that he's not really dead. 

3. I gotta agree with Mouse here: it seriously sucks when you go to all that effort, right down to

  Hide contents

essentially creating one of the major Batman villains ,

only to find that you've got to do massive amounts of codebreaking, like, seriously? After all that?

3. Awwww, Regan turns out to be the sister of one of the villains - an easily blackmailed/manipulated sister, at that.

4. I gotta say, though, impressive backup planning on the part of Magpie, to have her sister manage to grab a bar job just in time to be in place to seduce Kate again.  And equally impressive luck that Kate just happened to be in a place where she could be easily seduced.

5. Speaking of Kate, yay on reasonable rent costs! Now that's the sort of heroism I can definitely get behind.

6. At this point I'm actively rooting for Jacob to die in the season finale, thus increasing my regrets that Batwoman wasn't able to film one. 

Jeez, what have you got against Jacob? 

[Joe Hellandback]

On 5/5/2020 at 12:48 AM, Samwise979 said:

Just pausing the episode to ask this. When Alice is talking to Tommy about Lucius's journal she asks "why's Bruce Wayne's R&D guy telling dear diary about that?" (The failsafe) and Tommy says because Bruce Wayne is Batman. Alice looks surprised. Was she surprised because she didn't know? (where'd she think Kate got all the bat stuff from?) Or was she surprised Tommy knew? Idk if it's important to the rest of the plot but I was just curious. Any thoughts?

I think she genuinely didn't know, that's the running gag, 

On 5/5/2020 at 6:31 AM, RobertDeSneero said:

Or she's a really good bartender, who can easily get a job in any place that her sister needs her to be. 

You don't think a girl who looks like THAT would be able to sweet talk her way into any bar in the world? 

[Joe Hellandback]

On 5/5/2020 at 7:09 AM, Rushmoras said:

I think she was surprised that Bruce is Batman. I mean, in her mind, Kate could easily gotten the gear from any Dick, Joe and Harry, who could have been Batman. Still better plotline than Lex Luthor in S4, while in jail hundreds of miles away, knowing that Lena's BFF is Supergirl (Lena did not know), but not knowing who Clark Kent is.

Kate is more of a bargain basement superhero, bike instead of Batmobile etc, she didn't necessarily have the real Batman's gear. Plus Alice not exactly playing with a full deck  

[Joe Hellandback]

1. Love the Kate and Mary dress up scene, they really come across as sisters. 

2.  Such a shame we don't see Luke going clubbing, that would have been great.

3. Love Mary with the battle of the influencers, she's so canny.

4. And love her thigh boots, mmmmmmmmm!

5. Yay, Mary in the Batcave, about bloody time! Her first impulse to take pics is so true. 

6. Love the recurring gag of everyone being shocked to find out Bruce is Batman, reminds me a little of Mystery Men. 

7. Very nice plan, the suitcase bomb is a classic. 

8. Disturbing to see Batwoman captured and helpless, she walked into that one. 

9. Well I guess Julia doesn't conform to the no killing rule? Who's on the end of that phone? Bruce? The people who hired the rifle. 

10. Nice to see Magpie again, nice twist with Reagan, so we actually have another set of feuding sisters, she and Alice can bond over it.  

11. You wondered what hold Alice had over Magpie to make her do her bidding? Nice that she lets her go,  

12. So I guess Alice and Mouse need a decoder? The Riddler? Calendar Man? 

[John Potts]

I've always thought it best to transport my potential organ donors sedated. That way the transfer goes a lot easier. I mean, if I was running an illegal organ donor ring. Which obviously I'm not. Honest.

As soon as we heard the mission was to infiltrate a Bad Guy Bar, I guessed we'd see Mary going in there. Not only does she have the Underworld contacts, she's also the party girl. I understand Kate not wishing to put her in danger, but as she pointed out, she's already been in danger and has (so far) managed to get out of it OK.

Tuxedo One? Wouldn't Stiletto One be more appropriate? OK, neither of them were actually wearing stilettos, both Kate and Julia were wearing sensible boots, but it just stuck out to me. I'm guessing Julia is working for Bruce (though if that's true, he's going to be upset she killed someone)?

Hey, Danny Messer turned villain! Did like that he displayed enough mook chivalry to not immediately unmask Kate, so at least he has some principles.

I love the fact that, even though Arkham is an absolutely horrific throwback to Victorian (and earlier) Nut Houses, they still allow their inmates access to nail polish (isn't that highly flammable?)!

On 5/4/2020 at 11:03 PM, tennisgurl said:

Kate lowered the rent for her renters? She really is the hero we deserve! 

It reminded me of this video!

On 5/6/2020 at 4:33 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Tommy gets his face ripped off all to make it look like he's dead. Does that mean no more looking at Gabriel Mann anymore?

I can't see that working. We've seen that the false faces just pull off - surely somebody will examine the body? Maybe once the body is examined, Tommy will retrieve it and Gabriel Mann can appear again?

On 5/5/2020 at 6:49 AM, Rushmoras said:

Camera Operator:  We could use a lot of cuts, maybe more than in Taken and shake the camera all around?

I assumed that was all just to conceal the use of a stunt double instead of Ruby Rose.