S04.E18: Chapter Seventy-Five: Lynchian

[AnimeMania]

Jughead and Charles continue with their investigation as the latest videotape turns dark; Kevin, Reggie and Fangs's business gets on the next level; Cheryl and Veronica's business is threatened.

Airdate: Wednesday, April 29, 2020

 

I think the Betty and Archie fascination would have made more sense it is had started by them secretly watching each other through their bedroom windows. Maybe seeing something inappropriate they were doing alone or with their partners.

[thuganomics85]

Oh, yeah!  Tickle Porn is back with a vengeance, baby!  After seeing how much bank Kevin and Fang are making, Reggie (remember him?!) wants in on that action, but takes it even a step further by wanting to branch out and form his own company with the football team.  Even "spices" things up by making a deal with Toni (she's actually allowed to be in scenes without Cheryl?!), to have the Vixens be the ones tickling the football players.  Brilliant!  Well, except that apparently that Terry guy doesn't fool around when it comes to his tickle porn, and basically threatens Kevin in a scene that feels like it could have been lifted straight from Breaking Bad, if meth was replaced by tickle porn and Gus Fring was Terry instead!  Reggie strikes back by threatening a beatdown if he does it again, but it all ends up not mattering anyway, since Mr. Honey finds out and shuts that whole shit down.  Totally worth it just to hear Honey reluctantly utter the word "tickle porn", which I'm still debating if that was Honey's being disgusted within the show, or Kerr Smith just baffled that he actually has to say that line with a straight face.  Oh, Tickle Porn!  You are the gift that keeps on giving!

Looks like Archie/Betty has made an about face or, at the very least, has been put on hold, as Betty rightfully points out that both of them still love their current partners and it would be just a bit wrong to pursue this.  I doubt it will be over with and I'm not invested too much either way, but I think Cheryl of all people might actually be on point that Betty is yearning more for an "innocent" time, when her and Archie's relationship was more shallow and "puppy dog love" like, while what she has with Jughead is more real: warts and all.  All in all, I feel like Archie/Betty would end up hurting a lot of people; including themselves; if they kept pursuing it: at least for now.  I did enjoy the casting for the kid versions of them in the flashbacks.

Meanwhile in The Adventures of a High School Rum Queen, Veronica manages to get on the bad side of a whole other group of rum runners: someone who BOTH Hiram and Penelope are worried about, which is quite telling.  After Veronica basically calls him weak, Hiram threatens the main guy, but spares him, leading to him getting his ass kicked, so that a) Veronica feels bad and proud that he has "changed" and b) an excuse for Hiram to take off his shirt, so Mark Consuelos can show how much he's been working out still (Tony Soprano doesn't have those guns!)  It all ends with Veronica agreeing to accept help from Hiram again, not realizing that, yup, Hiram secretly went back and did kill the guy after-all.  Sigh.

Oh, hey, Ethel is still around!  Charles and Jughead both thought she might have been the one behind the mysterious tapes, but it turns out that she actually has been creepily holding onto the sex tape Bret had of Jughead and Betty instead.  I mean, she claims she never watched it after she realized what it was and was hiding it to protect them, but there seemed to be way better options there, like telling Jughead about it.  Or setting the fucking tape on fire. 

Instead, it looks like Mr. Honey might be the one behind the tapes or; at the very least; is doing some kind of shady shit.  But since next week's episode will be the finale due to the lockdowns, I'm not sure when we'll get a real answer here.

[HeatLifer]

RAS gifting me with an Archie/Betty/Jughead triangle and making Veronica irrelevant!? What did I do to deserve this gift, I don’t know. It’s all I’ve wanted.

I loved seeing Barchie as kids and getting insight into Betty’s diary, so cool to get to see the beginnings of their friendship and see how much they really adored each other. 

And Archie, this boy is just so far gone, he thinks with his heart and he’s just so pure. When he spoke with Fred at his grave. 😞 And getting inspired to write and sing again? Who is doing it like him. 

It’s clear that Barchie have feelings but Betty is moreso not ready for it, probably still hurt by being rejected years ago (hence the season 1 flashback of the day after Archie said he couldn’t give her the answer she wanted), and she can’t fathom losing her love with Jughead for something she can’t quite understand. Archie’s ready to set sail, LOL. Poor Ronnie. 

This shit is what I live for. I need more.

Edited April 30, 2020 by HeatLifer

[ruby24]

Okay, I have to admit, anything involving the tickle porn subplot and having it be increasingly taken seriously makes me laugh out loud, at lines that are absolutely not supposed to be funny. I mean, breaking Kevin's fingers so that he can "never tickle anyone again?" This is like, pure camp shit. How do these actors keep a straight face in scenes like this? I think if they did an entire episode just about the tickle porn and how it's taking over the town I would be cracking up the entire time. I hope they do it.

People sure get forgiven for murder a lot on this show. Cheryl's friendly with her mom again? 

I've always thought Mark Consuelos was the least threatening mobster I've ever seen on television but they actually made him look even more small time. Isn't he supposed to be like all powerful? They said he was a mafia don at one point. Guys like him employ hitmen, they don't go after hillbilly thugs outside bars late at night by themselves and get beat down in the street. His rep would be shattered.

They keep jerking this Betty/Archie thing around but I guess I'm not that surprised, because I knew RAS loves Betty/Jughead the most. They're the couple of the show. Even Archie can't pretend he's that into Veronica anymore. Although, why do they never include Jughead in childhood flashback scenes? He did exist, didn't he? He, Archie and Betty were pals since childhood I thought.

I wonder if the next episode will actually function enough as a finale so that they don't have to finish anything else for this season. I'm sure this Honey storyline was supposed to go on longer, but I guess the could theoretically end it in one.

Edited April 30, 2020 by ruby24

[RS3]

To sum up this love rectangle from hell - not that I'm complaining because I'm loving it - Archie loves Veronica but is in love with Betty. Betty loves Jughead but is in denial about her feelings for Archie. Veronica loves Archie who loves Betty. And they will all live happily ever after now because Betty decided to literally burn her feelings away through her diaries... Lol. 

This arc was kind of predictable but I'm bummed that we're gonna have to wait a while before we see the climax. I don't think what Cheryl said applies to Barchie's situation, not entirely. She didn't have all the information *coughs* like them cheating on their partners by making out in the garage *coughs* because Betty lied to her. She was looking for a way out. In the bunker, Betty broke and stopped Archie the moment she flashbacked to the last time he sang to her in the pilot while she was still hurting from his rejection. She's scared to lose Jughead over an uncertainty but if she had listened to the song, she would have known it was real. 

Archie is in love with Betty. This episode made it clear the ball is in Betty's court. It was in his song too. "If you carry the torch, I'll follow the light". Both times Archie mentioned Veronica, it was either followed by taking Betty's hand on the bed, or completely side stepping the question by asking another question. I feel bad for Veronica the most. Girlie doesn't know what's coming, and neither does Jughead, but she's almost a non factor in this situation. 

I know a lot of people don't want to hear this because of their preferences, but this episode solidified Barchie as The central love story now. The "endgame" line is irrelevant because it was said about barchie, varchie and bughead. They'll go back and forth between all three ships until the show is over. 

[Lady Calypso]

I have to feel bad for Archie, at this point, because his character just got thrown completely under the bus in order to protect Betty/Bughead and I'm not so sure the show fully realizes how dirty they did Archie. 

I am so not surprised that they worked hard to protect Bughead after all of this. Yes, Barchie isn't over and this will come up, and I know this was all done to break up both couples, but still, they protected Betty hardcore in this episode. They gave her more of a voice than Archie. Betty was the one who ended things and continued to insist that she loves Jughead (more). Archie was made to look way worse in this episode. The only things he did was go talk to his dad (who can't give him his sound advice back) and write a song for Betty. Oh, and decide to join the Naval Academy after Betty turned him down. At least we got a nice Archie scene at the cemetery but still. 

The one thing about Archie is that he's always had a good moral compass. He has done dumb things, but always for the right reasons and never truly out of selfishness. But now, with this cheating storyline? That kind of shits on that one truly great quality of Archie. Unless he plans on telling Veronica...like, ASAP (as in the beginning of next week's episode), then he just loses a lot of that credibility. 

I feel terrible for Veronica. Not only does she get stuck in the 265th reiteration of The Lodge Show (where it's Hiram vs Veronica AGAIN once she finds out that Daddykins's leaf isn't so turned over), but now she has her boyfriend in love with their best friend. I'm not a huge fan of Veronica....but now, she may be one of the only ones I can root for over the summer. 

Same with Jughead, who has no idea that his girlfriend just had an existential crisis about who she loves more. But hey, he got to solve a mystery with his brother that he shares with his girlfriend so...yay? It's just good to see Jughead getting back into the Riverdale plot stuff. Plus, I have to admit that the tape stuff is interesting. I liked seeing the return of Ethel. 

Cheryl...had some out of nowhere dialogue with her randomly shipping Bughead (despite her taunting Betty about the Barchie stuff a few episodes ago) and now is protective of her shitty mother. 

The tickle plot is so goddamn stupid, but hell, it's good because it gave Kevin, Toni, and Reggie some actual material outside of one scene every couple of episodes with the Core Four. At LEAST they were given SOMETHING to do. 

Those three deserve better than the material they hardly get. Hell, Toni still only got a few lines of dialogue...but she wasn't with Cheryl much, so there's that.

I can't say I'm surprised at the Mr. Honey turn. You don't just cast Kerr Smith to sit in a chair and scheme against teenagers; you also get him involved in one of the mysteries! So, whatever role he DOES have in the tapes, at least he'll be getting something to do, even if it makes no sense in the end.

 

[rmontro]

8 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I mean, breaking Kevin's fingers so that he can "never tickle anyone again?" This is like, pure camp shit.

You've hit on something here.  This may be the most camp show on TV since Batman '66.

I do think they tried hard to make Betty look good here, and there is at least an option to drop the Barchie storyline, but I'm sure it will be back, if not sooner, then later.  Surprising to see Cheryl be the voice of reason with Betty here.

They've set things up for everyone to go their separate ways with college looming and all, makes you wonder how or if they're going to prevent that.  Are they going to have Mr. Honey flunk the whole bunch of them to keep them in high school (and Riverdale) another year?  Have everyone drop their plans and start a rum/gym/detective business together?  Blow up the cast and start over?  Or just treat all the different destinations like they're just five minutes away? 

Only Riverdale would have hard core gangsters and hillbilly moonshiners in the same town.

[Auror]

Betty/Archie are very, very far from over. This episode proved as much. Betty couldn't even allow Archie to finish the song he wrote and performed for her, it affected her so much. She does have real romantic feelings for him and she has been in love with him in one way or another for a decade. Betty didn't stop this with Archie because her heart was telling her to go there, she stopped it partially because of what Cheryl said, but the other part is she did not want to cheat on Jughead or hurt both Jughead and Veronica. She is pushing her real feelings aside and trying to "burn" those memories and feelings away. Now, is Cheryl right on as a rule and maybe it still is ultimate fantasy in the end? Could be. It might just be childhood fantasy sort of like how Amy Abbott thought she was in love with Colin Hart on Everwood (this is what it reminds me of) and they were destined to be together. That was not true in the least. Amy's truth and true love was with Ephram and being with Ephram. Will this be the case for Betty and Betty/Jughead as well like Amy and Ephram/Amy? Maybe. But the difference is we SAW Everwood play out and we knew the truth eventually... Colin was a childhood crush/fantasy for Amy and Ephram was her reality. We have no evidence either way if what Cheryl said is true and at the very least, this episode is strongly hinting that we will eventually SEE what the reality is. The one diary Alice had Betty save and not burn obviously 100% holds the key and means everything. The showrunner RAS LIKED a Tweet that stated as much. He was all but confirming the diary is key and there is way more to the story. Initially before watching the episode I thought he was trolling but after seeing the episode I do not think it was a troll job. Betty is pushing her feelings aside, and Betty/Archie are not over. Not in the least. Archie is wanting to leave and start a new life because he's absolutely devastated over Betty rejecting him. Archie needs to promptly break up with Veronica. He couldn't even tell Betty he was in love with Veronica in words that last time, and he was willing to be with Betty while STILL with Veronica. He needs to break up with Veronica. Now what are Betty's true feelings? I honestly think she loves both Jughead and Archie, and the key is figuring out the definition of each love. However, this episode just confirms the real triangle on this show is not going to be Betty/Archie/Veronica, it is definitely Jughead/Betty/Archie. Betty did mention it is possible Barchie is confused because it feels so safe and comfortable in an otherwise confusing time period aka going to college soon/Fred's death/all the crap they've endured in scary Riverdale. This is possible and what it might turn out being. But I still think the way the episode was constructed, Betty not being able to even hear the song, Cheryl's words, and truly not wanting to hurt Veronica and Jughead... she just couldn't deal with and face what her true feelings for Archie are right now. She is pushing it away... for now... but it will be revisited, guaranteed. I am glad too because if revisited, it will not happen in a dirty cheating way. It will be done right.

- Honey is gross trash. I knew he was bad but didn't expect him to be this gross.

- Cheryl didn't deserve having to see a version of Jason dying in the manner that he did once again. Horrible.

- Cheryl suddenly being protective of her psychopath mother... people say it's out of character but not really... Cheryl is still very messed up over her family. How could she not be? She was interacting with Jason's corpse! Just because thankfully she stopped going there, doesn't mean she's suddenly free from the mental side effects of her family. It would make sense one second she'd see her mother as the devil and the next, she defends her. That is what you do when you are suffering from years of mental anguish due to family.

- Kevin and Fangs appear to be Kevin's long term pairing. I thought it was Moose. Nope.

- I knew the second Reggie got greedy and wanted to be involved, they were in trouble. But I'm glad because anything that gets tickle porn off my screen works and it seems like it's over. The thugs cannot get mad as long as they are not producing anymore and they aren't going to go there again so it seems over.

- I hate that Veronica went back to her father again and all of that but oh well, it's sadly what she does. My hope for Veronica is that she gets her pretty face to NYC and starts new and fresh. She deserves it.

- Those childhood flashbacks of Betty and Archie are so adorable. They really are... so cute.

- As for the mystery... I am still lost. I have no clue who is sending those tapes. I did find it interesting Charles called Jughead his little brother. I know signs point to Charles being bad but I'm continuing to hold out hope there's a twist and he's basically good still. I guess we'll see.

- I am glad Ethel was still in that gray area of being strange but not a flat out baddie criminal either. I like how Jughead handled her. He knows she's unstable and obsessed so he was gentle but stern.

- I also think Jughead is right... we are just seeing the first two of many evil, terrorizing tapes. They will all receive one.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Auror

[wingster55]

9 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Although, why do they never include Jughead in childhood flashback scenes? He did exist, didn't he? He, Archie and Betty were pals since childhood I thought.

I don’t think Betty and Jughead were really friends before dating in s1. She never met his dad nor did she even know his birthday. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I haven't even started watching this series yet, but 'check in' from time to time on episode threads to "see" where things are  ---

All this "tickle porn" stuff has me sitting here thinking what's the appeal, on the show or IRL?   Imagining the benefits for the tickle-getter...  squirming and laughing themselves into an orgasm?? 

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, Auror said:

Betty didn't stop this with Archie because her heart was telling her to go there, she stopped it partially because of what Cheryl said, but the other part is she did not want to cheat on Jughead or hurt both Jughead and Veronica. She is pushing her real feelings aside and trying to "burn" those memories and feelings away. 

She has real feelings for Jughead also, so I would argue she is motivated by real feelings to not mess up her relationship there.  And her feelings about Archie are at least partly nostalgic, so that could be one reason why his song affected her so strongly.  But I agree this isn't over yet (unfortunately, IMO).  I still don't think Barchie is endgame, barring some sort of contract dispute, and Cole Sprouse ends up leaving the series.  

[HeatLifer]

5 hours ago, RS3 said:

She's scared to lose Jughead over an uncertainty but if she had listened to the song, she would have known it was real. 

I think this was super important. She’s extremely terrified of getting hurt by Archie and losing Jughead for no reason. That’s why she can’t fully confront or understand how she feels about Archie. She can’t go back to that space where she loves him so much and he doesn’t return the feelings, that’s where the flashback came in. She needs to know that what he feels is legit. At the end when she asked if he loved Ronnie, I was almost wondering if she wanted him to say no.

I don’t think what Cheryl said is true. I think it gave Betty a reason to bounce and pretend like what Archie and herself are feeling isn’t real. It’s convenient. Obvs this is going to bite her in the ass when she realizes what she feels is not going away.

5 hours ago, RS3 said:

but this episode solidified Barchie as The central love story now.

For now, yes. They wanted us to feel for them. 

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Unless he plans on telling Veronica...like, ASAP (as in the beginning of next week's episode), then he just loses a lot of that credibility. 

I think he will tell her. Next week, probably not, but I think he’s going to tell her about Betty and that’s when Betty will realize that what he feels is legitimate. It’s Archie’s turn to pine in their love game.

[truthaboutluv]

7 hours ago, RS3 said:

I know a lot of people don't want to hear this because of their preferences, but this episode solidified Barchie as The central love story now.

I haven't watched this show regularly since Season 1, because it's god awful. And just keeping up with comments and social media about it, has only convinced me I made the right choice.

However, I couldn't escape this whole storyline because it was all over my social media timeline and so I watched the scenes online and that's not the impression I came away with, i.e. that it solidified Barchie is the central love story. 

I thought it solidified that the "triangle", such as it is, is solidly Archie/Betty/Jughead as opposed to the source material and what many assumed would be the case when this show first debuted, i.e. Betty/Archie/Veronica. 

And the reason for that is because unlike in the comics, I don't believe Archie is the main character of the show. That's Betty and it's been Betty since about Season 1. And so by that token, she has naturally become the center point of the love triangle. Archie was the center of the triangle in the comics, as he was the main character. 

This is all about Betty. Betty torn between her feelings for Jughead and feelings for Archie. Her history with Archie vs. what she's built with Jughead. Yes, it's obvious that Betty and Archie isn't over with Archie emotionally falling apart over Betty's not wanting to be with him and Betty discussing their long history and all the "what if". 

However, she also adamantly made it clear multiple times how much she loves Jughead. And at no point did that feel like her lying to herself or trying to force herself to believe it or saying what she thought was supposed to feel. It seemed very real and honest, imo. That whatever confused feelings she has about Archie, she is still very much in love with Jughead.  And isn't that always the root of every triangle - one person torn between two people.

As others noted, Archie could barely convincingly admit to being in love with Veronica. Which again further confirms that this is all about Betty's feelings and so what the episode solidified is that the big Riverdale triangle is not going to be Archie-centric, it will be Betty-centric. Like most of this show's storylines have been since Season 1. 

[HeatLifer]

I think Betty loves Jug, but I think she repeated it to herself continuously because she was scared of what she was feeling for Archie. I think she also brought up Veronica a few times to try to push that on Archie so everything could just stay as it is. Betty’s just not ready to take a leap of faith with Archie. She remembers the rejection and the unrequited love very well.

I do think there’s a passion with Barchie that isn’t there right now with Bughead, though. And that’s also scary for Betty. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by HeatLifer

[rmontro]

7 hours ago, Auror said:

Betty couldn't even allow Archie to finish the song he wrote and performed for her, it affected her so much.

Here I thought she was just trying to spare us the agony of having to listen to any more of Archie's song.

[SourK]

First of all, credit where credit's due: if you want to find out where the messed-up porn is, you ask the LARPer at your school. A+ 100% that is the first factually accurate plot point on Riverdale since someone explained Bumble.

I'm confused about the video store. Reggie made a website this episode to host his awful videos, so we know that internet porn exists -- and it is the internet porn the principal objected to, since that's the stuff where they were wearing their jackets. But the show leads us to think the reason the principal knew about the website was because he hangs out in the secret psychopath porn section of the video store. So... I guess those movies start by showing you a murder and end with a PSA explaining that the internet exists?

I'm going to reserve judgement about where this tickle porn story is going but, in real life, something is sexual if one of the people involved thinks it's sexual, even if that person is "just" paying to watch you do it. Reasonable people can decide that they still want to take the money, but Kevin is totally wrong that doing something legal with your clothes on means it's not porn, and I really hope someone explains that to him before the end of this.

16 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I've always thought Mark Consuelos was the least threatening mobster I've ever seen on television but they actually made him look even more small time. Isn't he supposed to be like all powerful? They said he was a mafia don at one point. Guys like him employ hitmen, they don't go after hillbilly thugs outside bars late at night by themselves and get beat down in the street. His rep would be shattered.

I had the same thought, but I'll let it go because I remembered that previous seasons have established Hiram only had one guy: his teenage daughter's boyfriend, whom he kept getting in fights with. I think maybe there used to be another guy before that, but he got shot?

But, yeah. The show seems to forget that, in order for Hiram to be boss of something, he needs other people involved.

[RS3]

12 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

This is all about Betty. Betty torn between her feelings for Jughead and feelings for Archie. Her history with Archie vs. what she's built with Jughead. Yes, it's obvious that Betty and Archie isn't over with Archie emotionally falling apart over Betty's not wanting to be with him and Betty discussing their long history and all the "what if". 

However, she also adamantly made it clear multiple times how much she loves Jughead. And at no point did that feel like her lying to herself or trying to force herself to believe it or saying what she thought was supposed to feel. It seemed very real and honest, imo. That whatever confused feelings she has about Archie, she is still very much in love with Jughead.  And isn't that always the root of every triangle - one person torn between two people.

I absolutely understand where you're coming from. And I agree with some of your points. Right now, the love triangle is Archie/Betty/Jughead. I said that Veronica seems like an afterthought in this storyline, like a crutch Betty used to push Archie further away considering Archie was ready to end it, and even come clean to her right after he kissed Betty. 

By central love story, I meant that this arc will culminate in Archie/Betty getting together one way or another. It's a matter of when, not if. The writers want you to root for them. I'm seeing a lot of relief on social media about the last scene between Jughead and Betty but I saw it as the beginning of their demise. The decision to go back to investigating mysteries with him is purely driven by guilt and it's not because she chose him over Archie. Case in point, she was done with mysteries before she cheated but she's going back to what is familiar and safe, which is ironically the excuse she used with Archie when she broke it off. 

The part where I have to disagree is the notion that you can cheat on someone you're still "in love" with. It's a cliché distinction but since it's riverdale, it's important. She considered leaving Jughead for Archie. She considered having sex with Archie during their secret meetings. She's torn between two dudes, one is safe because she already has him and one comes with mess and collateral damage. In the end, the writing told me Betty followed her head while Archie followed his heart.

Sidenote... it seems like we all came back for this storyline LOL. I have absolutely no idea, nor care, about what goes on in the main plot since the blackhood mystery in season 2. 

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, RS3 said:

Sidenote... it seems like we all came back for this storyline LOL.

Came back is a stretch. I watched some clips, which is why in fairness, my opinion may be limited by a lot of backstory and other factors I've missed. I watched it, had an opinion and now I fully intend to return to my position of not caring a lick about this show.

I'm sure if and when the eventual actual coupling of Betty and Archie happens it will flood by timeline again but yeah, no. Riverdale is painful to watch. It's that bad. Even those few clips I watched to gain perspective on this was awful, in my opinion. 

I think that's why I couldn't even buy into the great love story either way. Yeah Lili's a decent actress but the scenes with her and Archie, KJ still has that usual confused expression on his face the whole time and her and Jughead was just okay too. The whole thing just all felt so paint by numbers. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[tennisgurl]

The return of tickle porn because...someone on the writing staff has something very very specific that that they're into. I know that this show is consistently ridiculous, but this is a lot, even by this shows standards. I know that Mr. Honey is the bad guy (and probably even more than what we thought) but I died at his expression when he was forced to say the phrase "tickle porn". In that moment, he was the most relatable character on the show. I mean, the sentences this show makes me write! 

Maybe its me, but I kind of felt like the Archie was kind of getting thrown under the bus here, because this is the Betty show and everyone else is just kind of revolving around her, or their own weird rum running tickle porn subplots. Well alright not always, but this plot was definitely about Betty much more than it was about Archie. Archie did get a nice scene talking to Freds grave (anything with Archie and Fred will always get me teary) but they seemed to be giving all of the real conflicted feelings to Betty, with all the guilt and going back and fourth and whatnot. Archie seemed at least somewhat ready to get with Betty and couldn't even really protest that he loved Veronica, while Betty was written as really loving Jughead and being super torn about hurting him, which maybe wasn't on purpose, but it seems like they gave her much more of a voice which made her feel more sympathetic, even having her be the one to end things, which I was left wondering more about how Archie feels about this. The flashbacks to tiny Betty and Archie were rather cute though, as was the bit with little Cheryl and teenage Cheryl reading about it. 

Granted, it can be easy to grow apart when your girlfriend is always in the middle of teenage rum wars and her massive ass Electra Complex. So now Veronica and Hiram are cool again, until Veronica realizes that her dad killed again, and we go back to square one. 

Its always weird when Cheryl ends up coming off as the voice of reason. Also, she and her mom are cool again? I honestly need a chart to keep up with all the relationships on this show and who hates who. 

Yeah, I am still calling weird on Ethel keeping the Bughead sex tape. She wanted to "protect" it? Then why didn't she destroy it, or give it back to them? I call creepy on that one. 

Of course Mr. Honey is some kind of sketchy, and presumably has something to do with the videos. No way could anyone in Riverdale who tries to establish any kind of rules be anything but a creep on the inside!

Jugheads often rambling monologues actually made a decent point this week, this show is very Lychian in its campy way. Its got real Twin Peaks vibes, except instead of being surreal, its mostly just...weird. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Artsda]

I hope this isn't the end of the Betty/Archie story, would like to see where this goes without the nonsense of "endgame."   I do like them stopping before it got too far to ruin all the relationships.

[rmontro]

45 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Maybe its me, but I kind of felt like the Archie was kind of getting thrown under the bus here, because this is the Betty show and everyone else is just kind of revolving around her,

I'm pulling this comment out because you're right, this kind of really is the Betty show.  I don't think this is something they intended, but there are always breakout characters.  Lili Reinhart has done a great job.

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Maybe its me, but I kind of felt like the Archie was kind of getting thrown under the bus here,

I can see why people would think this, but I saw this as in character of Archie. He falls right in with the emotions he’s feeling, even if he doesn’t quite understand them. I also don’t think he was ever that DEEPLY in love with Veronica, and I have always believed that we were just waiting for the day it finally clicked for him that he’s been in love with Betty for a long time.

55 minutes ago, Artsda said:

I hope this isn't the end of the Betty/Archie story, would like to see where this goes without the nonsense of "endgame."   I do like them stopping before it got too far to ruin all the relationships.

They really need to stop this “endgame” crap. I personally couldn’t care less and it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t see other romantic pairings on Riverdale. Thankfully, I doubt this is an ending to Barchie. It’s only the beginning.

4 hours ago, RS3 said:

By central love story, I meant that this arc will culminate in Archie/Betty getting together one way or another. It's a matter of when, not if. The writers want you to root for them

This is how I saw it, too. Especially after 4x17. It’s way too romantic and heartbreaking. There’s not a lot of Jughead and Veronica time in this story. Even when Betty says she loves Jughead, she’s not flashing back to him. She’s flashing back to Archie.

[truthaboutluv]

23 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

. I also don’t think he was ever that DEEPLY in love with Veronica, and I have always believed that we were just waiting for the day it finally clicked for him that he’s been in love with Betty for a long time.

And yet this is exactly why people like me find it hard to buy Archie truly in love with ANYONE. Because in my opinion, the consistency I've seen with Archie and relationships is that he feels deeply when he's not with someone and as soon as he is, those feelings die to chase the next great deep love. 

Yeah I guess one can romanticize that it's because his heart has always belonged to Betty and so all of these people were just stops along his journey to his great love. But yeah, sure...okay.

That's actually why I broke my multiple season ban on this show to watch the clips because I was curious to see if I would feel differently about Archie in a romantic situation. If I would see a different, more grown up Archie. An Archie whose love and passion I would buy and I didn't. 

Again, maybe that's just on K.J.'s acting. But that scene with Betty explaining why she couldn't continue things with Archie, I saw Lili trying and saw Betty somewhat emotional and conflicted. Archie just seemed clueless as to why yeah, maybe hooking up while we're dating other people, our good friends at that, is probably not such a great idea and will likely hurt a lot of people. He conceded it when Betty said it but you almost got the sense that somehow that point escaped him.

Which is also why it came across like he had to be reminded of Veronica's existence. And even if one wants to say that well it's because obviously he's not in love with Veronica anymore, considering all the two have been through together and if nothing else, you would hope he sees her as someone he cares for, you'd hope that he'd spare a bit more consideration to her. 

I don't care a lick about any of these damn relationships because again, it must be said, Riverdale is a shit show. However this is why I've always been anti any Archie ship with ANYONE. Because I've just never been able to buy his truly being in love with anyone. I feel like he flits around with his emotions. That he likes one girl well enough, is really into her during the tension/build up period and then once that's over, it's just all meh. 

eta: I will say that Archie's flakiness actually sort of makes him the most believable as a teenager. Because really, these relationships shouldn't be these over the top, intense, "you are the love of my life" shit. Unfortunately, that over the top, intense, endgame crap is the lifeblood of teen shows, especially the ones the CW churn out. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by truthaboutluv

[HeatLifer]

54 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

but you almost got the sense that somehow that point escaped him.

I don’t think the point escaped him moreso than his feelings are overwhelming him at the moment. He just finished writing this song about her and his mind can’t understand how he can feel these things for Betty but be in love with Veronica. That’s why he looked confused and upset. That’s why he said “then what’s this all about” aka “why do I feel these things for you?”

54 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah I guess one can romanticize that it's because his heart has always belonged to Betty and so all of these people were just stops along his journey to his great love. But yeah, sure...okay.

I mean, this is likely the point. At the end of the day, it’s either Betty or Veronica. 

54 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

eta: I will say that Archie's flakiness actually sort of makes him the most believable as a teenager. Because really, these relationships shouldn't be these over the top, intense, "you are the love of my life" shit. Unfortunately, that over the top, intense, endgame crap is the lifeblood of teen shows, especially the ones the CW churn out. 

I completely agree. My main problem with Riverdale from the jump was them behaving as if Bughead and Varchie were 35 years old and have signed blood contracts to be together until the afterlife. It was beyond time to introduce something new, love it or hate it.

Edited May 1, 2020 by HeatLifer

[rmontro]

On 4/30/2020 at 1:58 PM, Auror said:

- I also think Jughead is right... we are just seeing the first two of many evil, terrorizing tapes. They will all receive one.

They're running out of cheesy cartoon Archie gang masks though.  I suppose there might be a Veronica and Reggie left.  Although maybe they wouldn't use those for ethnic reasons?

 

6 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I will say that Archie's flakiness actually sort of makes him the most believable as a teenager. Because really, these relationships shouldn't be these over the top, intense, "you are the love of my life" shit. 

The reverse could be just as true.  Teenagers can think their love is the biggest in the world, most intense, forever type of love.  I agree the flakiness suits Archie's character though.  I never bought that he cared about Veronica that much.  And I'm not buying his mooning over Betty either, other than as a temporary thing.

[Josh371982]

On 5/1/2020 at 7:51 AM, RS3 said:

I absolutely understand where you're coming from. And I agree with some of your points. Right now, the love triangle is Archie/Betty/Jughead. I said that Veronica seems like an afterthought in this storyline, like a crutch Betty used to push Archie further away considering Archie was ready to end it, and even come clean to her right after he kissed Betty. 

By central love story, I meant that this arc will culminate in Archie/Betty getting together one way or another. It's a matter of when, not if. The writers want you to root for them. I'm seeing a lot of relief on social media about the last scene between Jughead and Betty but I saw it as the beginning of their demise. The decision to go back to investigating mysteries with him is purely driven by guilt and it's not because she chose him over Archie. Case in point, she was done with mysteries before she cheated but she's going back to what is familiar and safe, which is ironically the excuse she used with Archie when she broke it off. 

The part where I have to disagree is the notion that you can cheat on someone you're still "in love" with. It's a cliché distinction but since it's riverdale, it's important. She considered leaving Jughead for Archie. She considered having sex with Archie during their secret meetings. She's torn between two dudes, one is safe because she already has him and one comes with mess and collateral damage. In the end, the writing told me Betty followed her head while Archie followed his heart.

Sidenote... it seems like we all came back for this storyline LOL. I have absolutely no idea, nor care, about what goes on in the main plot since the blackhood mystery in season 2. 

LOL I will NEVER Root for Barchie cause of the way it started. I despise cheating and Love Triangles and Archie AND Betty both look shitty. One reason I hate Triangles is I grow to despise the person in the middle cause they always string both along and these fucking shows almost always make it two best friends or siblings fighting over a woman or a Man. Betty's been my fav character along with Jughead and I'm mad RAS is gonna make me despise her. Archie looks like the huge fuckboy of season 1 jumping from Veronica who was his everything just a few episodes ago to Betty. RAS is fucking high if he wants me to root for Barchie! I'll root for the ones being betrayed. I dont see how they are protecting Betty. Cause bet her and Archie get more chickenshit and not tell to spare their feelings Bullshit! 

22 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

I can see why people would think this, but I saw this as in character of Archie. He falls right in with the emotions he’s feeling, even if he doesn’t quite understand them. I also don’t think he was ever that DEEPLY in love with Veronica, and I have always believed that we were just waiting for the day it finally clicked for him that he’s been in love with Betty for a long time.

They really need to stop this “endgame” crap. I personally couldn’t care less and it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t see other romantic pairings on Riverdale. Thankfully, I doubt this is an ending to Barchie. It’s only the beginning.

This is how I saw it, too. Especially after 4x17. It’s way too romantic and heartbreaking. There’s not a lot of Jughead and Veronica time in this story. Even when Betty says she loves Jughead, she’s not flashing back to him. She’s flashing back to Archie.

Nothing bout Barchie is romantic and heartbreaking fuck both of them. 

[ruby24]

I wouldn't mind if Veronica became really angry at Archie and turns sort of "dark," meaning she accepts her dad the way he is and wants to stay in business with him anyway, embraces her full "Lodge" ruthlessness, hooks up with Reggie again. Something like that. But like I said before, I would have never minded showing Veronica being a little more like her coldblooded comics self- she was mean but she was also a boss.

[RS3]

I don't know if there's a thread for fanart/fics/vids (sorry mods) but here's one edit I found very interesting. It shows how much effort the writers are putting in crafting the barchie storyline. The parallels are everywhere. I was also disappointed by the lack of screentime dedicated to Archie's POV in the episode vs. Betty's, but this makes up for it. 

 

[Caseyh1981]

I LOVED all of the David Lynch references in this episode!!! 

the opening shot of the sign on the road, like in Twin Peaks

the Blue Velvet video store (David Lynch movie)

the guy that worked at the video store had a distinctively nasally voice like Gordon, David Lynch’s character on Tein Peaks. 

video store guys name was even David

video store guy drank from a coffee mug identical to the mugs at RR Diner in Twin Peaks

jughead referenced Eraserhead, another David Lynch film.

there may be more that I’m forgetting, but as a huge Lynch fan, I just loved this episode!!

[LadyChaos]

I thought the abrupt addition of Betty and Archie suddenly kissing seemed weird and I think that Betty's explanation feels right. Things are changing and everyone getting ready to go their seperate ways so they latched on to the thing that always felt safe.