Shtisel - General Discussion

[Inquisitionist]

Just found this Israeli series from 2015 on Netflix, after watching Unorthodox.  Unlike that series, Shtisel (a family name) is set in Jerusalem, but it also deals with an ultra-Orthodox community, in this case referred to as Haredi.  I've watched the first two episodes so far (there are 2 seasons, each with 12 episodes).  I'm enjoying the characters and the everyday dilemmas they are facing.  At the center of things is the youngest son of a rabbi, Akiva Shtisel, who seems to be a tad lost.  At 24, he is past the age at which most males in his community are already married, but he can't seem to connect with "the right girl."  We see him on a series of "first dates" or meetings arranged by a local matchmaker.  The young women are generally attractive and devout, but he's not interested.  Indeed, when he told one young woman that they would have to live with his father after marriage, I wondered if he had made that up to turn her off.

Instead, Akiva becomes intrigued by a somewhat older woman, Elisheva, the twice-widowed mother of one of the young school boys he has recently begun teaching.  Elisheva seems rather amused by Akiva, whom she regards as an overgrown child, but is not interested in marriage with him.  

The first two episodes both have some interesting dream or fantasy sequences.  I was very moved by Elisheva's "hallucination"of imagining of her two dead husbands conversing about her and her son in the kitchen in the middle of one night.  

There are also storylines about Akiva's father, Shulem, a rabbi who has been widowed for a year as the series opens; Akiva's sister, Giti Weiss, whose husband appears to have abandoned her and their 5 children (the eldest daughter is played by Shira Haas, who was so wonderful 7 years later as Esty in Unorthodox); and other family members.  It may feel a tad soapy, but the stories are told with nuance and consideration -- in contrast to the actual soap, The Bold and the Beautiful, that their grandmother discovers in her old age when she goes to live in a nursing home complex where all of her friends have "that box" in their rooms. 

I hope others are finding this lovely series.  I would love to chat about it!

[Inquisitionist]

Aha, I knew it!  In episode 5, the Shtisel family discusses how their father will live once Akiva moves into an apartment with his bride, Esti.  So Akiva was lying to his potential match in ep. 1 when he said

Spoiler

they would have to live with his father after they married, until the father died. 

He really did want to turn her off!

[Cunning Linguist]

What happened to the dog? Unless I missed it, I don't think it was addressed after the suggestion that it opened the door despite lacking opposable thumbs and let itself out.

Glad to see the appreciation for this great show.

[ChelleGame]

I binged this last year with my mother in law. We stayed up until 3am ripping through the series. It was just fantastic. A co-worker went to an event with the cast in New York. she said it was packed and the actors expressed their surprise at the show becoming an international hit.

I hope the series continues.

And thank you for opening the thread.

[Abmis]

I'm addicted to this show.  It's fantastic.  My only problem with it is that due to the subtitles, I have to have a chunk of time where I can do nothing but stare at the TV screen in order to watch it.  

Shira Hass steals every scene she's in even if she doesn't have any lines.  

[Inquisitionist]

On 4/16/2020 at 2:57 AM, ChelleGame said:

I binged this last year with my mother in law. We stayed up until 3am ripping through the series. It was just fantastic.

After watching the first 4 episodes with my husband, I just ripped through the remaining 20 on my own while he and I were apart!  But I'll gladly rewatch it with him, as it's been one of the few Netflix series we've been able to agree on lately.

I thought the 2nd season moved a little slowly at times, and the foibles of Shulem and his son Akiva in affairs of the heart started to feel a little repetitive, but I still enjoyed it.  It ended on hopeful notes, but certainly left the door open for further storytelling.  It would be interesting to see what the show runners could do with a 3rd season, which would have to be set a few years later given the time that has passed since S2 was filmed (2015, I think).  

While the focus for much of the series is on Shulem and Akiva, I found myself drawn to the female characters, particularly Shulem's daughter Giti.  I though the actress portraying her looked like a dark-haired version of Angela from the office.  And while she had a similar reserve and determination as that character, Giti also had a kind heart.  I would have liked to see more of her.  I missed Elisheva in the 2nd season, though the way her story with Akiva ended made sense.   Lastly, I wish a little more had been done with the female painter whose studio was next to Akiva's, Hadassah.  She felt like a potential good match for Akiva, though I got the impression her family was not as observant as the Shtisel family was, which could have been an impediment to a match.  

10 minutes ago, Abmis said:

I'm addicted to this show.  It's fantastic.  My only problem with it is that due to the subtitles, I have to have a chunk of time where I can do nothing but stare at the TV screen in order to watch it.  

Yes, it really commands one's attention! No multi-tasking allowed.  😉

[amass]

I love this show! Supposedly they are (were?) planning a third season...

 

I mostly understand the Hebrew without the subtitles but I don’t know Yiddish, so I did have to concentrate for that.

 

the actor that plays Akiva is also in “When Heroes Fly” - also on Netflix  

Edited April 20, 2020 by amass

[Inquisitionist]

On 4/14/2020 at 12:29 AM, Cunning Linguist said:

What happened to the dog? Unless I missed it, I don't think it was addressed after the suggestion that it opened the door despite lacking opposable thumbs and let itself out.

Now that I've finished S2, I know what you're referring to!  But I don't have an answer.  Did anyone else have access to the apartment?  I'm wondering if the grandson who found the dog to begin with came back for it.

[Abmis]

On 4/18/2020 at 4:07 PM, Inquisitionist said:

 

 

Yes, it really commands one's attention! No multi-tasking allowed.  😉

It does, but I'm so glad that it hasn't been dubbed in English. It would take away from the characters, and I absolutely love Doval'e Glickman's (Shulem) voice.

I'm thinking of playing a drinking game where I take a drink every time someone cooks an omelet or sleeps on floral print sleeps.  

[Kiss my mutt]

I have to say I am quick taken with this series. So understated, poignant and humorous. Fabulous acting. I have a little bit of a crush on Shulem. I was hoping there would have been a returned love interest with the woman he met on the train. 

[limecoke]

Discovered this recently after watching Unorthodox. It might be one of the most brilliant series I’ve ever seen. Subtle, poignant, often hilarious, beautifully acted and so respectful of the orthodox culture they’re portraying.  I’m on my second time through and with the subtitles missed some of the subtleties the first time.  I read that a third series is on its way and I certainly hope that’s true.  There’s a great interview with the actors playing Shulem, Akiva and Giti available on YouTube. Lots of behind-the-scenes information. 

[Inquisitionist]

Thanks for the tip about the youtube interview.  I will look for that.

 

ETA:  

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Inquisitionist

[configdotsys]

On 4/14/2020 at 1:29 AM, Cunning Linguist said:

What happened to the dog? Unless I missed it, I don't think it was addressed after the suggestion that it opened the door despite lacking opposable thumbs and let itself out.

Glad to see the appreciation for this great show.

I didn't want to read this short thread until I finished watching and just finished now. I have been wondering too what happened to the doggie and was disappointed that that was kind of left hanging there. 

I don't cry at anything really and I have to say that I cried like a baby through this whole series. I am a youngish widow and lost my husband very suddenly several years ago. The story Shulem told about the butter had me a weeping mess as did the scene in the hospital when he was begging his wife to eat and she said "Can I have a chocolate bar" and when he put money in the machine it did not work. So he pounded on the machine in a rage. That pounding was his love for his wife. The butter was the love for her husband. at the end of that episode when he was looking through her things in the closet, I cried again. Every time he had flash backs with his wife or talked about her, it was just so moving.

The only character that I really disliked and could do without was Shulem's brother. He was very irritating to me. His voice, his attitude, his character was extremely unlikeable and there was an undertone that he was a thief or had some pretty shady dealings going on. They could have left that out. I could not figure out what the deal was with the travel agency. Was it a front for something? Kive worked there daily and never had any customers.  

I'm not a prude but must say that it was very refreshing to watch an entire series with no gratuitous sex scenes or trashy bathroom humor, or violence that appears in so many shows. It was just an observant family's daily life that included troubles and good times. Each storyline (except the brother) was great.  I was so happy that Giti and Lippe relented and accepted Hanina. I thought he was just adorable and LOVE Ruchami. What a wonderful talent she is. Loved her in Unorthodox and was so happy to see her here. 

I have read that they were set to begin filming season 3 in May of 2020 but the covid situation put that on hold.

I could go on forever about this show. Tomorrow I am going to begin watching it again because I'm sure I missed things the first time around.

 

[Inquisitionist]

12 hours ago, configdotsys said:

 

I could go on forever about this show. Tomorrow I am going to begin watching it again because I'm sure I missed things the first time around.

 

I want to watch it again, too.  I miss the characters.  I've also been thinking that living a circumscribed life due to coronavirus forms a kind of connection with the characters here, who live circumscribed lives for other reasons.

[ThePurpleArcher]

On 5/14/2020 at 7:27 PM, Inquisitionist said:

Thanks for the tip about the youtube interview.  I will look for that.

 

ETA:  

 

THANK YOU FOR THIS !  I fell in love with this show after seeing 'Unorthodox'. I finished watching a few weeks ago - watched no more than 2 episodes at a time, didn't want this to end. (Recommended this to friends of all ages - they all loved it. Some watched all the episodes in a two day marathon). I've become sucha  fan of Michael Aloni - I could listen to him talk forever. What an intelligent, interesting man to listen to and learn from. I hope he makes it on to Broadway some day - would love to see him in person. 

[NoThyme]

There are some interesting Facebook discussion groups about this show.

[ItsJessMe]

I'm new to the show - just finished episode 9, season 1.  I'm enjoying it but find it so depressing and sad.  I find I can't wait to watch each episode but then get so depressed during each episode at how they talk past each other, how painfully they interact.  the acting is incredible.

If you want a similar series, watch Srugim, about modern orthodox singles in Israel.  I ADORED that show!

[amass]

Trailer for season 3!

 

[Inquisitionist]

Oh, my, season 3 next year?  Yippee!  I've had a very rotten evening, and this is making me feel better.  👍

[Paloma]

My husband and I binged this pre-pandemic, and now I am starting to rewatch in anticipation of Season 3. The series was recommended to us after we watched Unorthodox, and we thought both were great (though different). I confess that I started watching Shtisel with a bias against ultra-Orthodox Jews--I am a secular Jew but have ultra-Orthodox cousins, and I am really bothered by the way women are expected to just have baby after baby and not get an education or a career. I also have family living in Israel (some secular, others Orthodox but not "ultra") who resent the ultra-Orthodox for their influence on politics, for refusing to serve in the Army, and for being a financial burden on the state. It became personal to me when my Jewish-American daughter, who moved to Israel a few years ago and became a citizen, could not marry her Jewish-Israeli boyfriend in Israel without having an Orthodox rabbi officiate; apparently a civil ceremony was not possible, and there is no such thing as "Reform, Judaism" in Israel. They ended up getting married in Cyprus.

But with all that said, I was moved by the humanity of the characters in the Shtisel and was able to see that in some ways they are not so different from the rest of us. I look forward to seeing what happens to them a few years after the last episode. I just wish they (and especially the women) were not so confined by the expectations of their community. 

 

[Paloma]

I'm rewatching episode 3 of season 1 now and don't understand what was going on with his friends outdoors, in what looked like a park. They all seemed to be doing different things (except for Akiva and one of his friends sitting together under a tree reading and talking about a poem to Akiva). One of them was wandering around shouting--this is the one that fell down the hill of rocks and thought he broke his leg, and when his friends came to help him he said he had been shouting for help for hours but they didn't hear him because there were other people shouting. I noticed that there were a few men standing around in the trees, with at least one in a prayer shawl. 

What was going on in that scene? Was this some sort of religious practice, calling out to "Father" (G-d?) outdoors? ETA: This was explained in the Facebook group that I mention in my next comment. If you don't join the group, this Wikipedia article gives an explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitbodedut  

I also don't understand in general who these friends are and what they do. Are they all permanent students who don't work? I think one of them seemed to have a job, but it wasn't clear. How do they support themselves? ETA: According to someone in the Facebook group, some or all of these friends are in a band. But it's still not clear if that is actually how they support themselves.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Paloma
Found some answers to my questions

[Paloma]

In case anyone wants to learn more about the show and exchange lively opinions with others who love it, there is a Facebook group called "Shtisel" - Let's Talk About It. There are a lot of questions and answers about what happens and the religious and cultural customs, but the members of the group are all types of people from all over the world--Jews and non-Jews, and various degrees of religious (or not at all religious). 

[NoThyme]

Research project looking for participants who love Shtisel. Season 3 starts on the 25th on Netflix!  https://shtisel-diary.org/signup?fbclid=IwAR2QwnYnGLPWYE0TGePUtU65xfdjtaRDIjJ8uxKMMJgMyoO2dLjdaJSh6iw

[humbleopinion]

Okay, I binged Season 3...after binging Season 1+2 to review.

You'll laugh, you'll cry...be satisfied..warning only 9 episodes.

[amass]

I watched the first three tonight! 

[debraran]

7 hours ago, amass said:

I watched the first three tonight! 

I just watched first before bed. More tonight, trying to not do it too quickly. I did peek at future episodes on Netflix but they don't tell too much which is good. I was surprised at the end of first but did think Libbe looked very ill this year. That kept bothering me.

Edited March 26, 2021 by debraran

[amass]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

I just watched first before bed. More tonight, trying to not do it too quickly. I did peek at future episodes on Netflix but they don't tell too much which is good. I was surprised at the end of first but did think Libbe looked very ill this year. That kept bothering me.

I was shocked. But when she said she wished she could breastfeed Dvora one more time I couldn’t get that out of my head - why would she have stopped.... so at the end it all made sense

[debraran]

1 hour ago, amass said:

I was shocked. But when she said she wished she could breastfeed Dvora one more time I couldn’t get that out of my head - why would she have stopped.... so at the end it all made sense

I thought she was on a medicine that would hurt her. I hope they tell more tonight    I said I could watch 2 more 🙂 

Trying  to make it last. 

[Inquisitionist]

20 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Okay, I binged Season 3...after binging Season 1+2 to review.

You'll laugh, you'll cry...be satisfied..warning only 9 episodes.

Just saw it pop up on Netflix last evening but I have to wait until my husband is available to watch it with me.  I'll pop back to discuss later.  Woo-hoo!

[amass]

Ahhh I’m up to episode 6

[MaryHedwig]

I have watched all of Season 3, and loved it, but please do not read further if you have not watched it all. 

I have a few questions:

1. Is child care free in Israel? Is there a push to have children, even babies, stay in childcare all day? Why was Akiva dropping his baby off at day care every day?

2. Can just everyone pick up any child at a daycare center in Israel? Doesn't there have to be a list of certified persons?

3. Was Racheli  ultra-orthodox? If not, wouldn't that have been an issue regarding marrying her?

4. Libbe died when her baby was two months old? So not from childbirth I assume? Do we know why she died?

5. I didn't think one could get locked into a car, unless it was a police car. I am wrong about this? Or are cars different in Israel? (I am not wrong about my car, I just checked.)

6. It looked to me as if both Shiva the lucky one and Racheli were from much wealthier families. Correct? Would that have been an issue?

7. Does one not get paid for studying the Torah? Are all those families being supported by women working outside of the home?

I probably have some more questions too, but I would appreciate any answers anyone might have. I love this series.

 

 

 

[amass]

1. Daycare isn’t free but it’s subsidized. 

2. yeah that one stretched the imagination....

3. I’m not sure if Racheli was as orthodox as Kive but she was definitely also ultra-orthodox. Her dad was a rabbi(they said during the wedding), she left the door a jar the times he came over, and her father was wearing payos (the sidecurls), a hat and a long coat when they came to talk to her about spending the money to buy the tickets to go to Russia. She was also always wearing long sleeves and long skirts.

4.they didn’t say how Libbe died but I heard them all it a tragic accident in one scene. 😞

5. I’m assuming the back seats had child locks and he didn’t think to try the front.... ?

6. Not sure - what kind of issue?

7. they can earn a small stipend if the kollel has a wealthy benefactor but basically the women in ultra orthodox homes are the breadwinners 

[Auntie Anxiety]

I watched Season 3 over the course of a few days. What a beautiful show. It’s sweet, it’s quiet, it’s honest. The finale was pitch perfect. Shira Haas is an incredible actor.

[MaryHedwig]

6. It looked to me as if both Shiva the lucky one and Racheli were from much wealthier families. Correct? Would that have been an issue?

Thank you for answering my other questions. I meant, would there be some mention regarding Shiva that this could secure a better life for the son? Would Shiva's family think Shiva was settling because the Shtisels struggling financially more than them? Or in Ultra-Orthodoxy is the issue more the amount of holiness instead of the amount in the bank account. Regarding Racheli, I guess similar thoughts. Both couples seem very well matched to me, I just wondered if one of the family members on either side would be affected by the discrepancy.

You are right. My backseat does not open from the inside, my front seat does. I guess if you are new to cars you might panic and not check the front.

OK, if you are game more questions. I am so appreciative of your answers.

8. Why do married people sleep in separate beds?

9. Do the Ultra-Orthodox only eat meat on the Sabbath? This comes from a line the car-driving daughter-in-law said about how she, with all her other responsibilities, had to scrounge up meat for the Sabbath. It reminded me that I thought I had only seen the Shtisels eat eggs.

10. Was I listening to Hebrew or Yiddish? This comes from the line Racheli said about Akiva signing to his daughter in Yiddish. Thank you and I am sure you are helping a lot of other people to with your clear answers.

[debraran]

13 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

I have watched all of Season 3, and loved it, but please do not read further if you have not watched it all. 

I have a few questions:

1. Is child care free in Israel? Is there a push to have children, even babies, stay in childcare all day? Why was Akiva dropping his baby off at day care every day?

2. Can just everyone pick up any child at a daycare center in Israel? Doesn't there have to be a list of certified persons?

3. Was Racheli  ultra-orthodox? If not, wouldn't that have been an issue regarding marrying her?

 

.4. Libbe died when her baby was two months old? So not from childbirth I assume? Do we know why she died?

 

 

 

This a disturbing article on daycare in Israel from 2019 https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/what-is-going-on-with-israels-daycare-law-596371  fI hope it has gotten better. Not that it is perfect here but we have regulations on baby on up.

Re no 4, I don't know why the secrecy of her death. Is it not considered important? I must admit, when I first saw Libbe, compared to last season, I felt she looked sick and I thought cancer. She was pale and in the car, had the blanket/afghan you see many times with sick people. The "accident or tragedy" doesn't really fit with that though. Maybe if there is another season but I wondered as others, why that was not made public. I felt as an actress, it would have nice to have a few more scenes or maybe she couldn't do it.

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by debraran

[amass]

I don’t think the money was an issue at all. The bigger issue was that Shira’s Moroccan - Giti  was so afraid of anything that hurt the subsequent children’s chances at good matches and the matchmaker already said she wouldn’t work with her again... but I’m sure all would be forgiven (hopefully lol)

8. why married people sleep separately - for the whole time during a woman’s period and a week after she and her husband aren’t supposed to be intimate. Most orthodox couples just have two twin mattresses together like a king... but ultra-orthodox would have the beds completely separate 

9. mostly Hebrew but some Yiddish. Shulem mostly spoke Yiddish in all the conversations we heard him have, not with nechama though, with her he spoke Hebrew. 

[amass]

Sorry, missed the meat question. If they didn’t have enough money to eat it more frequently than meat would definitely be reserved for Shabbat ... 

[MaryHedwig]

10 hours ago, debraran said:

2. Can just everyone pick up any child at a daycare center in Israel? Doesn't there have to be a list of certified persons?

Thank you patient person answering all my questions. I just thought of something regarding the 'stranger' who was allowed to pick up Akiva's baby. Maybe Akiva's cronies at the café are really his relatives, perhaps cousins and doesn't he have a few extra siblings the show has not focused on?   That would make more sense to me about why Akiva even asked that man to pick up his child, as if she was a bundle of dry cleaner.  Just a thought....but it helps me like Akiva better.

[amass]

I think the only siblings are Giti, Tzvi Aryeh, and the sister who was estranged because she married a Lubavitcher (another sect of orthodoxy)

he’s just a bit flighty and so is his group of friends...

[MaryHedwig]

 

13 hours ago, amass said:

I think the only siblings are Giti, Tzvi Aryeh, and the sister who was estranged because she married a Lubavitcher (another sect of orthodoxy)

I thought that Shulem had mentioned that he had 6 children in a previous season. Anyone else have a memory of this?

[MaryHedwig]

Can you eat milk with eggs or is it treated like meat?

Is it unusual in the Ultra-Orthodox world for first cousins to marry?

Edited March 30, 2021 by MaryHedwig

[lucindabelle]

Eggs are parve meaning could go with either. Like fruits and vegetables. 

[Abmis]

On 3/29/2021 at 10:36 AM, MaryHedwig said:

 

I thought that Shulem had mentioned that he had 6 children in a previous season. Anyone else have a memory of this?

I remember it.  He also said he had 30 some grandchildren in the same conversation. 

[amass]

On 3/29/2021 at 6:04 PM, MaryHedwig said:

Is it unusual in the Ultra-Orthodox world for first cousins to marry?

Yes,it’s unusual... I think they were more afraid he’d never marry though lol

[MaryHedwig]

5 hours ago, amass said:

On 3/29/2021 at 3:04 PM, MaryHedwig said:

Is it unusual in the Ultra-Orthodox world for first cousins to marry?

Yes,it’s unusual... I think they were more afraid he’d never marry though lol

I think it also helped that Libbe had been in Belgium for so long so at least that had had that physical distance for a while.

 

14 hours ago, Abmis said:

On 3/29/2021 at 8:36 AM, MaryHedwig said:

I thought that Shulem had mentioned that he had 6 children in a previous season. Anyone else have a memory of this?

I remember it.  He also said he had 30 some grandchildren in the same conversation. 

So we could have an entirely different series 'Shtisel- The Lost Siblings' and flush out completely different storylines. I'm game.

[limecoke]

I’ve only seen episode one of season 3, because I’m trying to keep myself from going too quickly.  Michael Aloni outdid himself. The scene at the exhibition made me run for the Kleenex. Just watching him portray such intense pain with nothing but his face was astonishing. TV and movies never make me cry but this got me to my soul.  Wonderful, wonderful series.

[debraran]

Saw this online. Realized I forgot some things.

https://njjewishnews.timesofisrael.com/the-shtisel-quiz-just-how-big-of-a-shtisel-fan-are-you/

[Inquisitionist]

Finished S3 and will have a lot to say in coming days!  At first, I thought Libbi had died in childbirth, but later it was mentioned that she died two months afterwards.  I'm assuming it was an accident or something else unexpected.  Akiva seemed on the verge of saying more to Racheli about the circumstances but stopped.  I suppose it doesn't really matter, except to pique our curosity! 

[Inquisitionist]

Some of our favorite Shtisel actors are in HBO's movie adaptation of the award-winning play Oslo.  Set to air later this year.  Looking forward to it!

Quote

 

Doval'e Glickman...Yair Hirschfeld

Sasson Gabay...Shimon Peres (as Sasson Gabai)

 

 

[Juneau Gal]

Just finished Season 3. As much as I love the show and the characters now feel like family, I hope there is NOT a season 4. I feel everyone's story was happily (except for Shulem's) wrapped up and to explore further the writers would just have to create unnecessary conflict and drama. I'm good with just imagining them living on as we last saw them.