West Side Story (2020)

[methodwriter85]

On 3/25/2022 at 2:39 PM, Lady Whistleup said:

I think Maria will be fine. She's young, pretty, smart, and has a lot of moxie. Many people like that have very little and make a lot of their lives.

My fanwank has always thought that Maria ended up pregnant and went back to Puerto Rico to live with family and had a son/daughter that she named  Antoine/Antonia. 

Although for this particular Maria, I like to think she moved to Los Angeles to start over and did pretty well.

Edited March 26, 2022 by methodwriter85

[Lady Whistleup]

1 hour ago, methodwriter85 said:

My fanwank has always thought that Maria ended up pregnant and went back to Puerto Rico to live with family and had a son/daughter that she named  Antoine/Antonia. 

Although for this particular Maria, I like to think she moved to Los Angeles to start over and did pretty well.

Antonio would be a great name for their kid. Although part of me thinks it would be nice if Maria honored Tony's heritage by keeping "Anton" as the name.

This video series does a great job contrasting 1961 with 2021:

 

[Simon Boccanegra]

Two things I noticed and loved on a rewatch: 

Doc's line from the 1961 film "When do you kids stop? You make this world lousy!" is reassigned (not quite word for word, but too close for coincidence) to one of the distressed merchants, in Spanish, when the Jets are running loose on the sidewalks at the beginning. 

Also, the nerdy-looking dance chaperone's line (a Kushnerism, not in the original) "Give us some hope, just for a little bit. Then you can revert back to your true feral selves" is essentially a summing-up of the story. Tony and Maria are the hope, just for a little bit. Then, as so often in real life when groups are at odds on ethnic, racial, political, or religious grounds...

Edited March 27, 2022 by Simon Boccanegra

[Milburn Stone]

Great observations, @Simon Boccanegra. I loved and laughed at that line from the chaperone, and knew it was new (the cynicism alone made it of our time), but didn't see it as the distillation of the story that it was.

I'm curious about how "well" the movie is doing. We all know the box-office was said to be disappointing, although IMDB now says global receipts are about $50 million, which doesn't seem like peanuts to me. What I don't know is whether that number is ticket sales alone, or if it includes streaming and download revenue. I always knew this movie would do better on digital media (older audiences stayed away from theaters in droves), and it strikes me as possible that in time, the movie will be seen not only as not-disappointing but a verified hit.

[Sweet Tee]

I hope it's doing well on streaming.  It's definitely my favorite movie of 2021.  

I also want to believe that Maria will be all right.  If nothing else, Valentina would help her.  She loved Tony too.  And I don't think the Jets would ever mess with her after everything.  Hopefully, the two gangs just leave each other be now.  Three people died because of their pointless feud.  Enough's enough.  Plus, they're all about to be driven from the neighborhood anyway, so what does it matter?  Maria talked about wanting to go to school and I believe Valentina would help her with whatever she needs to make a life for herself wherever she wants the life to be.

I agree that Natalie Wood's Maria seemed like a stronger person than Rachel Zegler's but the latter still had ambitions.  And she stood up to Bernardo more than the former.  

[Milburn Stone]

6 hours ago, Sweet Tee said:

I hope it's doing well on streaming.  It's definitely my favorite movie of 2021.  

I went from not caring about the Academy Awards tonight to desperately wanting WSS to win in every category it's nominated, and being outraged that it's not nominated in more.

[Spartan Girl]

22 hours ago, Sweet Tee said:

I hope it's doing well on streaming.  It's definitely my favorite movie of 2021.  

I also want to believe that Maria will be all right.  If nothing else, Valentina would help her.  She loved Tony too.  And I don't think the Jets would ever mess with her after everything.  Hopefully, the two gangs just leave each other be now.  Three people died because of their pointless feud.  Enough's enough.  Plus, they're all about to be driven from the neighborhood anyway, so what does it matter?  Maria talked about wanting to go to school and I believe Valentina would help her with whatever she needs to make a life for herself wherever she wants the life to be.

I agree that Natalie Wood's Maria seemed like a stronger person than Rachel Zegler's but the latter still had ambitions.  And she stood up to Bernardo more than the former.  

Don’t forget that the original Maria still had her parents living with her. This version, Maria is pretty much an orphan. But like you said, she’s still got drive and maybe a plan.

I think it was interesting that this version had implied the Jets and the Sharks had their “come to Jesus” moment before the ending. Valentina held up a mirror to the Jets and showed them how ugly they were after they tried to assault Anita, while the Sharks realized that things went too far after watching Chino break and embrace the gang mentality—which was the last thing Bernardo wanted. And this probably accounts for how subdued they seemed in the final scene, whereas the original they were about to rumble again before Maria stopped them.

Thrilled that Ariana got her Oscar last night! Too bad the show didn’t get any others.

 

[tv echo]

Congrats to Ariana DeBose...

Oscars 2022 winners list: Will Smith, Jessica Chastain, CODA win big at wildest Academy Awards in years
By Joey Nolfi      March 28, 2022
https://ew.com/awards/oscars/2022-oscars-winners-list/ 

Quote

Best Actress in a Supporting Role
Jessie Buckley, The Lost Daughter
WINNER: Ariana DeBose, West Side Story
Judi Dench, Belfast
Kirsten Dunst, The Power of the Dog
Aunjanue Ellis, King Richard

Ariana DeBose Accepts the Oscar for Supporting Actress
ABC    Mar 27, 2022

ETA: Rachel Zegler was a presenter at the Oscars. You can see a clip of her joking about her last-minute invite in this highlights video.

Edited March 29, 2022 by tv echo

[Yogisbooboo64]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Thrilled that Ariana got her Oscar last night! Too bad the show didn’t get any others.

I was pissed that the Costumer didn't win, all the dresses were so beautiful!!

(Enters and looks around, walks in with arms defiantly crossed)

I’ma say this; 1961’s WSS is and will always be the bomb!!  Classic musical and brilliant dance numbers.  Love you, Spielberg but there are some movies that should NEVER…BE…FUCKED…WITH!!

That said….

Ariana DeBose OWNED the role of Anita!!  From the moment she came on the screen, I couldn’t take my eyes off her.  The dresses she wore…that hairstyle…and most importantly, that smile, she outshone everyone in the movie.  Her Oscar win was so deserved.  She and Mike Faist (Riff) were the standouts of the movie.

Cool wasn’t bad but it doesn’t touch the ’61 movie’s kick-ass version (to the poster who said it was nerdy….NERDY?!  FOH!!)

I agree that Somewhere should have stayed with Maria and Tony and not Valentina.  Somewhere is the best part of the ’61 movie for me, as it culminates in Maria and Tony making love, full of fear but also passionate for each other.

Natalie Wood was the better Maria, especially her “DON’T YOU TOUCH HIM!” when the Jets/Sharks tried to go to Tony’s body.  Rachel Zegler was pretty but lacked Maria’s passion.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Yogisbooboo64

[SeanC]

On 3/28/2022 at 12:17 PM, Yogisbooboo64 said:

Natalie Wood was the better Maria, especially her “DON’T YOU TOUCH HIM!” when the Jets/Sharks tried to go to Tony’s body.  Rachel Zegler was pretty but lacked Maria’s passion.

Wood is so obviously inauthentic casting (and doesn’t do her own singing) that I really can’t consider her the better Maria.

But good news for anyone wanting to hear Zegler since “Somewhere”, as she did so at the Grammys.

 

[Brn2bwild]

Now I'm even more regretful we didn't get to hear a Tony and Maria version in the recent West Side Story.  She has a great voice.

[BetterButter]

 

[annzeepark914]

Thanks, Yogisbooboo45. This is why I'll wait to watch it on TV. "Somewhere" is a song written for young lovers whose families are against their relationship. It should never have been given to Rita Moreno's character.

[paramitch]

On 3/14/2022 at 3:51 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I also loved Riff and how he was also expanded on a bit as well.  An angry kid going nowhere who had people he didn’t like approaching on his turf from all sides.  Plus the remake did better to explain why Tony has gotten out in the first place.  He had to after going to jail and being on parole but also kinda decides there is more to life.  Of course the romance is both the driving force of the movie and it’s weakest aspect but still worth watching.

I agree with all of this. I thought Spielberg/Kushner's new revival gave us a heartbreakingly complex Riff (and Tony) -- and empowered Maria. The romance is sweet but it's Riff's last sweet "It's OK" to Tony as he dies, or Anita's fierce (brief) joy in "America" that stays with me.

On 3/14/2022 at 5:29 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Upon rewatching, I will revise my earlier opinion and say Elgort’s singing was better than I originally claimed. But I stand by my stance that his acting didn’t get good until the last half.

I think he's terrific. I don't like him as a person, certainly not after the allegations against him, but the irony is, he does (to me) communicate a very specific innocence and openness. And his singing and dancing was solid.

Meanwhile, if the reports are true, he is a total garbage person. It's just indefensible. (The timeline from the New Yorker does note that the revelations about Elgort did not come out until WSS was already filmed).

On 3/15/2022 at 5:06 PM, Sarah 103 said:

You have excellent taste! "Gee Officer Krupke" is my favorite song in the show, so I have to ask if that is your second favorite, what is your absolute/number one favorite song in the show?

Mine has always been "Something's Coming." I love it so much, that sense of purpose and greatness waiting, that "it's great to be alive" freshness. I prefer the 1961 movie version though, because I disliked this one turning it into Tony's conversation with Valentina. I think it's robbed of power that way. I prefer Tony singing it to US, connecting to US.

On 3/15/2022 at 6:22 PM, Chaos Theory said:

My favorite song is “America.”  I really like the way it was choreographed as well.  Instead of being a bunch of people standing on. a roof it was them actually walking through the west side of New York.   

I think the woman sitting next to Anybody was just some random who was just there with the others and watch a bunch of hoodlums tear a police station apart.  

I have rewatched Spielberg's "America" too many times to count by now -- for me it's the most joyful, spectacular number in the show. Don't get me started on the little moment when the kids start singing and dancing to it (PLOTZES).

I took the woman at the police station to be a streetwalker/narc. So she was allowed in to sit and listen ("waiting for processing") then left when she realized they wouldn't give her anything (but she still felt sorry for them).

On 3/16/2022 at 5:11 AM, wingster55 said:

I think that was intentional. They didn’t have the same bond like before Tony went to jail, but neither were willing to admit it. 

I felt like they did have the same bond, but life still went on for Tony and not for Riff. Which was what made it tragic. Tony wanted to change; Riff had no desire to at all, ever. Riff wanted to die EXACTLY who he was with a big fat flag stuck in his grave too. It's so tragic because as toxic as he was, Riff has a light to him; he could have been more.

On 3/16/2022 at 7:57 AM, Conotocarious said:

Kind of crazy to read from the beginning of this thread and see the backlash to this movie before anyone had seen it.

I’ve watched it twice already and it’s better than the original. In fact, I just rewatched the original and was wondering how murder results from a game of basketball gone wrong and writing Sharks Stink in chalk. 

LOL! And I agree. I love the new adaptation so much. And get so tired of people yelling about it because in the theatre, WSS has been revived dozens of times -- hundreds. A second adaptation (which isn't even strictly a remake) is more than allowable 60+ years later! Sigh.

On 3/16/2022 at 3:25 PM, Sweet Tee said:

Definitely.  I know Ansel is singled out as the worst part of the movie and that may be true.  But, I do buy that his Tony is an angry violent guy who is trying to be better.

Richard Beymer was just so happy and love struck and naive and I don't believe he was ever in a gang.

I liked Beymer better than most, but ack, I agree. And hate praising Elgort but -- ack, I agree.

On 3/26/2022 at 11:43 PM, Simon Boccanegra said:

Two things I noticed and loved on a rewatch: 

Doc's line from the 1961 film "When do you kids stop? You make this world lousy!" is reassigned (not quite word for word, but too close for coincidence) to one of the distressed merchants, in Spanish, when the Jets are running loose on the sidewalks at the beginning. 

Also, the nerdy-looking dance chaperone's line (a Kushnerism, not in the original) "Give us some hope, just for a little bit. Then you can revert back to your true feral selves" is essentially a summing-up of the story. Tony and Maria are the hope, just for a little bit. Then, as so often in real life when groups are at odds on ethnic, racial, political, or religious grounds...

These are beautiful moments that spotlight how Kushner added so much richness and complexity to the WSS screenplay. He was really robbed of an adaptation Oscar nom.

On 4/4/2022 at 7:58 AM, SeanC said:

But good news for anyone wanting to hear Zegler since “Somewhere”, as she did so at the Grammys.

 

This was gorgeous. I'm so glad Rachel was able to present and perform after not even being invited at first. (GRR.) I didn't think the song choices or interweavings always worked (honestly, the song that exemplified Sondheim -- which he admitted -- was "Anyone Can Whistle"), but I don't care. It was beautiful.

On 4/6/2022 at 7:58 PM, BetterButter said:

 

I LOVED THIS SO MUCH. I can't even.. Thank you thank you thank you.

On 4/7/2022 at 4:08 PM, annzeepark914 said:

Thanks, Yogisbooboo45. This is why I'll wait to watch it on TV. "Somewhere" is a song written for young lovers whose families are against their relationship. It should never have been given to Rita Moreno's character.

That's a shame. The song in the 2021 version is used creatively and thoughtfully, Moreno sings it beautifully, and I cried all the way through it.

Did I miss "Somewhere" in Spielberg's version as a duet? Yeah, I did (and see this thread for my walls of text). And I think it doesn't work to remove that for the lovers. But I still bawled so hard my friend watching with me had to pause the movie so I could calm down. 

I don't get boycotting the movie because of a single song decision, but hope you check out the movie once it's free. It's worth seeing.

[Sweet Tee]

'Somewhere' is sung by an offscreen singer in the original play.  It wasn't a Tony/Maria duet there.  And Tony and Maria already have two duets in the show.  I don't think they don't need a third.  I liked that they recontextualized it for Valentina.

Quote

I liked Beymer better than most, but ack, I agree. And hate praising Elgort but -- ack, I agree.

I like Beymer fine for the romantic stuff.  He sold it well.  He just didn't sell the reformed gang member (with a rep bigger than the whole west side).  

Ansel, OTOH, sold the gang member part, but not so much the romance stuff.  I think he's the flattest when he's in scenes with Maria.  His best work, IMO, was the rumble.

Perhaps, someday there will be a Tony who is able to marry both sides on the screen.  I'm sure there's been one on the stage.

[Inquisitionist]

On 9/17/2021 at 7:45 AM, tv echo said:

It will be very difficult to replace Rita Moreno, George Chakiris and Russ Tamblyn.

Comment from way back but... I thought the new WSS's casting improved upon all of these

On 4/7/2022 at 6:08 PM, annzeepark914 said:

Thanks, Yogisbooboo45. This is why I'll wait to watch it on TV. "Somewhere" is a song written for young lovers whose families are against their relationship. It should never have been given to Rita Moreno's character.

Not so sure that's who it was written for.  In the original Broadway production, it's sung by a minor character named Consuelo.  The 1961 film repurposed it to Tony and Maria, but I liked having Valentina (Rita Moreno) sing it in the new version.  

[tv echo]

Time 100: The World's Most Influential People 2022 list includes Ariana DeBose...
https://time.com/collection/100-most-influential-people-2022/ 

[methodwriter85]

On 4/14/2022 at 12:40 PM, paramitch said:

LOL! And I agree. I love the new adaptation so much. And get so tired of people yelling about it because in the theatre, WSS has been revived dozens of times -- hundreds. A second adaptation (which isn't even strictly a remake) is more than allowable 60+ years later! Sigh.

I'm not a blanket approver of remakes (I feel like the fundamental problem with doing a remake on Valley Girl is the fact that the OG movie was a contemporary take on a subculture that doesn't really exist anymore) but West Side Story is a play. It's meant to be adapted many times and in many different ways.

[Dr.OO7]

I've rewatched this a million times on HBO and what makes it work is the way everyone and everything is fleshed out more from the original, making the deaths of Tony, Bernardo, and even Riff all the more tragic.

[Camera One]

There are so many remakes and reboots these days, and usually, you end up with a pale imitation of the original.  I was pleasantly surprised to find that Steven Spielberg was able to create a remake which was faithful but still fresh in various ways.  I've only watched the 1961 version once a long time ago, and I rewatched it after seeing this new remake, and I think I enjoy different aspects of both versions.

Romeo and Juliet is a classic, but I found the plot kind of frustrating and depressing to watch, considering the inevitable ending and the various misunderstandings that lead to the sad conclusion.  Nevertheless, both versions of "West Side Story" were able to sort of make you forget that in their first hour.  

I thought the casting was quite effective in this new movie.  I wasn't familiar with most of the key actors, and they could all sing and dance quite well, which I think is way better than stunt casting.  There have been so many musical remakes with big names who became distractions and who sometimes couldn't even sing too well. 

Sometimes, the real life drama behind the actors/productions affect the viewing experience.  After this thread, I read up on the problems behind the 1961 one and I'm glad I first watched it without knowing any of that.

This new movie's visuals were beautiful and it added to the experience.  The transition from dialogue to song was well done and the musical numbers felt more dynamic with more location changes, so it felt like a different take that doesn't replace but gives you a different view from the previous movie.

I liked seeing how the screenwriter added to the character motivations/backgrounds.  One thing with this new one is I think they could have shown a bit more of the Tony/Riff friendship before all the animosity, so it would be more believable that he would snap when Riff died.  Maybe I didn't feel the bond as strongly because Tony's initial conversation at the beginning of the film was now split between Riff and Valentina, instead of just being with Riff.   

I was also a bit confused why Tony went to the dance in this new one after telling Riff he wasn't going to. 

I was also wondering if Valentina still maintained ties with the Puerto Rican community, since she also interacted with Tony and Riff who started the Jets.  For example, she was standing with Chino at the end, but did she actually know him?

In the 1961 movie, Tony hadn't planned to go to the Rumble until Maria asked him to stop it.  He thought he had already simmered things down by insisting on a one-on-one fist fight.  

Whereas in this new one, it was much more complicated, with the whole gun situation.  By losing the gun to Riff in "Cool", Tony needed to be at the Rumble to get it back.  In this new one, Bernardo seemed to want the Rumble mainly to fight Tony over his dancing with Maria.  But in the old one, Bernardo seemed to be fine with fighting the other Jet guy, so it was almost like everything could have been avoided more easily in the 1961 one.

Anyway, these changes were an interesting slight variation of events which increased the intensity and the volatility of the situation.  So while I still like the more innocent naivety of the 1961 version, I think this movie contributed something different to the story.  Overall, I'm glad there are now two good adaptations of this stage musical to watch.

[Sarah 103]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I was also wondering if Valentina still maintained ties with the Puerto Rican community, since she also interacted with Tony and Riff who started the Jets.  For example, she was standing with Chino at the end, but did she actually know him?

My guess based on pure fan speculation is no. Something I wished this version had done a better job of was showing what Doc and Valentina may have sacrificed in order to marry each other. I highly doubt that either side/family would have been happy with an interfaith and interracial marriage. If the movie had done that with a few lines of dialogue, having Valentina sing "Somewhere" would have worked better and made more sense.