S08.E06: Two Minutes

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Upheaval and unrest in Washington, D.C., brings an investigation to Kabul, Afghanistan, which could lead to dangerous consequences.

Promo:

Clip:

Original air date: 3/15/20

[scrb]

President himbo  gets immediately gaslit by Gulom, a president of a country of handmade rugs and heroin poppies.

Where the govt would instantly collapse to the heroin poppies dealers if the US pulled economic and military aid.

Carrie of course is running her own ops.  Hey she has a lot of experience in the CIA, including in Kabul and special contacts.  After all, she can go incognito and traipse around the back streets of Kabul, a blonde woman as stealthy as a ninja.

Now she’s apparently going to go action hero to free Max, after telling him to get the flight recorder, which got him captured in the first place, as well as get an army company killed.

She has to do this, even though she’s going against Saul’s orders.

When this show began, they showed her as a house cat, with her life completely in Washington.  Our Carrie has grown into a gun-wielding covert op now.

They’ve never shown her to be a good shot or have any combat skills.  But she’s going to charge in against soldiers who took down an Army company?

What drew in a lot of viewers at the start of the series was that this wasn’t another action show.  They used a lot of electronic intelligence and psy ops to debrief and eventually ferret out Brodie’s programming.

Now, we have Jackie Bauer/Jennifer Bond heroine, going to kick ass in Afghanistan.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh, Jenna. I knew Carrie wasn't actually just going to quietly acquiesce and fly back to Berlin. I laughed so hard when she cut a hard right on the jetway and ran off.

Ben sucks. The look on David's face as G'ulom started lulling Ben over to his line of logic was the perfect combination of "is he really falling for his?" and "we're fucked."

[Sharper2002]

The one thing that isn't ringing true to me is how friendly Carrie and Yevgeny are. Remember Season 7 Yevgeny who was so upset that Carrie outsmarted him that he sucker punched her out of frustration? Unless she has been turned and he's just following through with his plan. Which brings me to how easily Carrie turned to him after their convo by the fountain. So he took you on walks and you told him about almost drowning your daughter when you were imprisoned, so friends? 

I know Carrie is portrayed as having something about her that makes her irresistible to men, but I hope she didn't sleep with Yevgeny because she's also a Black Widow incarnate and he will die. I like Yevgeny as a formidable adversary and I like the actor, so I hope the end game pays off.

Ben and David going over the correct pronunciation of Gulom's name was hilarious. How did he even rise to the position of vice president if he's that incompetent? 

The scene with Carrie and Saul in her hotel room was great. Mandy Patinkin did a really great job in that scene, especially when Carrie said she had a lead on Max via Yevgeny. He really looked like he was going to pop a blood vessel.

Poor Max. I hope he hangs in there, but I guess Carrie, the one-woman-kickass-machine, is on her way.

Overall, I've had to suspend some disbelief this season (which is par for the course with Homeland), but I guess I'm committed till the end. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Sharper2002

[mjc570]

I think the ending was ridiculous - Carrie being picked up, with split second precision, by Yevgeny.  On the other hand, I am a HUGE Costa Ronin fan (since the Americans) and really want to see them engage in a hot and heavy affair.  Not because it makes any sense plot wise, but for the chance to see more (or all) of the beautiful Costa. 

Yeah, I had to laugh at the pronunciation lesson.  I really tried not to, but couldn't help seeing current day parallels with our own administration. 

Hope Max makes it out alive. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by mjc570

[preeya]

1 hour ago, mjc570 said:

Hope Max makes it out alive. 

↑ This, but I'm leaning towards the fact that Carrie won't.

Someone up-thread made a comparison that this version of Carrie parallels Brodie and we all know what happened to him.

[TVbitch]

9 hours ago, Sharper2002 said:

How did he even rise to the position of vice president if he's that incompetent? 

Um....

Carrie, Carrie, Carrie.... it's always been your way or rogue. I was so proud of Saul taking a hard stand against her, but then, seriously, they have the girl who couldn't even keep tabs on Carrie inside the building escort her to the plane. ?! 

I'm not sure how I want this to end, but I want it to end more realistically than action hero movie. Which means it can't really end well for any of them. 

[dwmarch]

11 hours ago, Sharper2002 said:

The one thing that isn't ringing true to me is how friendly Carrie and Yevgeny are. Remember Season 7 Yevgeny who was so upset that Carrie outsmarted him that he sucker punched her out of frustration? Unless she has been turned and he's just following through with his plan.

How did he even rise to the position of vice president if he's that incompetent?

I got a laugh when she went to Yevgeny's apartment and asked him for a favor and said something like "now don't go thinking this is the beginning of you recruiting me!" Pretty sure that ship has already sailed, sank and is now a thriving coral reef.

The VP was explained as a make-nice gesture from the incoming President who replaced Keane. Way back in the day it was traditional to appoint a VP from the opposing party and since America was almost torn asunder by the events of last season, they decided to resurrect this tradition*. Maybe they picked this guy because they thought he was too dumb to be a threat. Remember how they shit a brick when they found out he was thinking about running for office?

7 hours ago, mjc570 said:

I think the ending was ridiculous - Carrie being picked up, with split second precision, by Yevgeny. 

FWIW, I think Saul consciously or unconsciously recognizes Carrie as his best weapon, even if she is a total loose cannon. That's why he gave her the lecture of "I'M VERY DISAPPOINTED IN YOU... (you have 30 minutes to figure out how to escape my clutches!)" He could have sat on her for 30 minutes but instead he just gives her the space she needs to coordinate her escape. Or it could be that Saul's tradecraft continues to suck, as we have seen numerous times already. Six of one, half a dozen of the other?

*This also happens in Tom Clancy's Debt of Honor...

Spoiler

It's how Jack Ryan ends up becoming President.

 

[scrb]

Saul was winking at Carrie to do what she wants by saying she had 30 minutes?

So plausible deniability for her?

And in the end, she will be hailed as a hero even after going rogue.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I know people have gotten tired of Claire Danes' acting, but I loved the moment after Saul revealed Mike had recorded her meeting with Euvgeny and that both Mike and Saul knew she was lying. Her face turned pink so as an actress she was really feeling the embarrassment of being caught, not just reciting the lines.

[Msample]

Earlier this season there was speculation Jenna was a double agent. If so, she may be the most incompetent one ever.

[Broderbits]

On 3/16/2020 at 9:12 AM, Msample said:

Earlier this season there was speculation Jenna was a double agent. If so, she may be the most incompetent one ever.

Or maybe whoever placed her there just wanted to have someone to cause chaos and gum up the works. Just like real life.......

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

 

[Ottis]

I fast forwarded through most of this. An unlikeable ME leader, a dillweed VP now president, Carrie acting as guilty as possible in incidental circumstances, Max captured and sidelined. Harqquani was the best character in the episode. I only watch because I have watched for many seasons and this is the last one. Ugh. 

[nara]

On 3/15/2020 at 8:41 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Oh, Jenna. I knew Carrie wasn't actually just going to quietly acquiesce and fly back to Berlin. I laughed so hard when she cut a hard right on the jetway and ran off.

Ben sucks. The look on David's face as G'ulom started lulling Ben over to his line of logic was the perfect combination of "is he really falling for his?" and "we're fucked."

How has Jenna not been fired? Unless the station chief Mike is a double agent who deliberately placed his least competent person on Carrie so Yevgeny can do his job. But why put the person who JUST LOST Carrie on the job to escort her out of town? Unless you secretly want Carrie to remain active...

I don’t know if Ben was fooled; rather G’ulom was voicing what Ben wanted to do all along...so it made it easy for him to ignore his (or rather the previous POTUS’s) peeps.

 

On 3/15/2020 at 10:18 PM, TVbitch said:

Um....

Carrie, Carrie, Carrie.... it's always been your way or rogue. I was so proud of Saul taking a hard stand against her, but then, seriously, they have the girl who couldn't even keep tabs on Carrie inside the building escort her to the plane. ?! 

I was proud of Saul too.

On 3/16/2020 at 9:12 AM, Msample said:

Earlier this season there was speculation Jenna was a double agent. If so, she may be the most incompetent one ever.

Unless her job is to let Carrie remain at play...

So here is my theory but I will put it in spoiler tags so that my speculation can be ignored 

 

Spoiler

The last episode is entitled Prisoners of war, which is the name of the original Israeli series on which Homeland is based. My theory is that Carrie returns to US a heroine for saving the world from war. However, she is really a double agent for Russia. Jenna is the only one who doesn’t trust her, and is therefore the new Carrie.

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Arriving late to the S08E06 party.

Carrie, Carrie, Carrie. Yevgeny played you like a fiddle. Two minutes is long enough to destroy the world, not to mention the US government.

Poor Max.

So that Taliban pawn shop guy thought the black box was an old 1983 Compaq computer or something?

It's hard to imagine Hayes is as big an idiot as he seems but if he's scamming them all he's putting on an Academy Award-worthy performance. Sure hope Wellington isn't working him for nefarious purposes.

I'm about 95% thinking Carrie's CIA shadow Jenna is dirty but that she's not knowingly working with the Russians. I bet she's in with the people staging what is probably a US government coup. Station chief Mike is definitely looking iffy to me though. He might be in with the Ruskies and is using Jenna's seeming incompetence to his advantage.

Buh, buh, buh, busted, Carrie! Great scene between her and Saul.

Are there not some kind of trackers on black boxes that can be activated in an emergency?

🎶My <Russian> boyfriend's back <to help me escape> and you're gonna be sorry <you didn't have someone escort me through the whole flight!🎶 Stay predictable, Carrie. One imagines Saul already anticipated her doing this since going rogue is her style.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Joimiaroxeu

[John Potts]

What a surprise - everyone's rushing to say what a great President Warner was - now that he's dead. Though did he pick Hayes as VP not out of bipartisanship but because he's a ****ing idiot!? If so, WTF were they worried about him running against them? They should have been cheering!

Buzzfeed is saying it was a Palace coup? That sounds plausible. I guess it's a good use of an incoming President's time to surf the web? It's not like he'd have anything else to do.

Carrie - it's not all about you. Saul was right (and noble) to claim ultimate responsibility. Hell, Yevgeny was right that you were asking for a favour for nothing in return. Even as an asset, she'd be of extremely limited value, given how compromised she now is.

Wow - Carrie was 100% honest in her initial FBI interview! That's gotta be the first time.

Saul - who would imagine that relying on a mentally unstable woman might cause problems!?

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2020 at 2:18 AM, TVbitch said:

they have the girl who couldn't even keep tabs on Carrie inside the building escort her to the plane. ?! 

Maybe Saul wants Carrie to escape? If he thinks she's right about the Taliban not being responsible, it might be the only way to prove it. He's almost certainly out soon anyway, at least this way he achieves something positive first.

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 7:21 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Are there not some kind of trackers on black boxes that can be activated in an emergency?

I thought so too, but maybe that's a myth?

[Roseanna]

On 3/15/2020 at 10:18 PM, mjc570 said:

I am a HUGE Costa Ronin fan (since the Americans)

 

Me too.

On 3/19/2020 at 4:12 AM, Ottis said:

Harqquani was the best character in the episode.

Haqqani has a concience: he is willing to surrender in order to save his men. Only, isn't ot likeIy that a man who has fought his life really trusts he will get a trial, still less to speak openly in it. Gollum will hardly keep his word and the new POTUS in under his influence.

[Roseanna]

On 3/15/2020 at 7:23 AM, scrb said:

When this show began, they showed her as a house cat, with her life completely in Washington.  Our Carrie has grown into a gun-wielding covert op now.

We were told in the beginning that Carrie had served abroad. The first scene showed her in a prison listening to the information that a captured American soldier had been turned. 

In S 3-4 we have seen her to move in Islamic cities as if she were at home there. I have accepted that as elements belonging to the action genre. 

What I have fond most unlikely was Brody's flight after the CIA Building was bombed. Carrie just helped  him to the Canadien border without any disguise as if there weren't no security cameras. 

Another thing is how lightly Carrie and Saul have used mobile phones (f.ex. using even real names during mission in the hostile city in S3). Are the Americans the only ones who can trace calls according to key words?  

[paramitch]

On 3/14/2020 at 10:23 PM, scrb said:

Carrie of course is running her own ops.  Hey she has a lot of experience in the CIA, including in Kabul and special contacts.  After all, she can go incognito and traipse around the back streets of Kabul, a blonde woman as stealthy as a ninja.

Now she’s apparently going to go action hero to free Max, after telling him to get the flight recorder, which got him captured in the first place, as well as get an army company killed.

She has to do this, even though she’s going against Saul’s orders.

When this show began, they showed her as a house cat, with her life completely in Washington.  Our Carrie has grown into a gun-wielding covert op now.

They’ve never shown her to be a good shot or have any combat skills.  But she’s going to charge in against soldiers who took down an Army company?

I'm so confused by this. Carrie has, since Season 1, been shown to be an experienced and highly regarded field operative -- one who had overseen operations, handled firearms, conducted missions in highly volatile foreign and domestic settings, etc. All of which she loved as part of her job, and which were in danger if her bipolar disorder was discovered.

Across eight seasons now, I'd argue that we've seen her handle herself well in situations involving both up-close combat and escape, in handling firearms, in comfortably supporting military operations, and in overseeing ops herself. I can definitely point to at least one scene in every single season of the show to support this.

Carrie's no housecat -- she's always been a jungle cat who loved the chase.

On 3/15/2020 at 9:20 AM, Sharper2002 said:

The one thing that isn't ringing true to me is how friendly Carrie and Yevgeny are. Remember Season 7 Yevgeny who was so upset that Carrie outsmarted him that he sucker punched her out of frustration? Unless she has been turned and he's just following through with his plan. Which brings me to how easily Carrie turned to him after their convo by the fountain. So he took you on walks and you told him about almost drowning your daughter when you were imprisoned, so friends? 

I didn't like him punching Carrie, but if she presents herself as a combatant, holds off his entire team, and then is revealed to have fooled him long enough to bring down a years-long plot, it's believable to me that he'd do so without necessarily having it mean, exactly, that he's an abuser. Carrie is certainly more than able to defend herself under normal circumstances.

Which is of course a ridiculous thing for me to note since Yevgeny is a pretty scary, deftly subversive lying murderer, anyway. Yet, the show has also painted him as showing hints of compassion or the ability to be grayscale. He truly seemed to love the frenchwoman from last season, and the people he killed in almost every instance seemed to be people who had been game players or turncoats aware that what they had done would get them killed. It doesn't mean Yevgeny is a nice guy, but I do think he's interesting enough for the show to explore further.

I also got the impression that, given that Carrie spent SEVEN MONTHS in prison under his personal supervision (and spent the majority of that time under severe mental illness to the breaking point) that this may have also sparked a level of intimacy between them that gave Carrie Stockholm Syndrome to a degree, and yet that also may have sparked a degree of protectiveness in Yevgeny (or that's my impression). It appears to me that in the flashes we've seen, he was sometimes genuinely caring with her (or pretended to be).

The irony to me is that -- if I'm right -- that if Carrie hadn't been so vulnerable, he probably would have been able to maintain detachment and coldness. But honestly, I can't imagine being unmoved by watching her crumble away and lose her sanity. It's one thing to say he would do it, but another to actually sit by and watch it happen -- especially an opposing agent he visibly if grudgingly admired.

On 3/16/2020 at 1:12 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know people have gotten tired of Claire Danes' acting, but I loved the moment after Saul revealed Mike had recorded her meeting with Euvgeny and that both Mike and Saul knew she was lying. Her face turned pink so as an actress she was really feeling the embarrassment of being caught, not just reciting the lines.

I noticed that too -- her face literally changes color when he calls her out there.

I love Claire and think she's an incredible actress who cares deeply about the craft. I know it's become something people laugh at, but she's still one of the best "criers" I've ever seen onscreen. It gets me every time.

[smartymarty]

On 3/15/2020 at 11:57 PM, dwmarch said:

Way back in the day it was traditional to appoint a VP from the opposing party and since America was almost torn asunder by the events of last season, they decided to resurrect this tradition*.

The show made a point of pointing out that the only time a VP was picked from the opposing party was Lincoln picking Johnson "and you know how that turned out" was the rejoinder (Johnson was impeached).