S15.E09: Face Off/S15.E10: And In The End

[Danielg342]

The Series Finale. Press releases via SpoilerTV:

Quote

“Face Off” – It has been a year since Rossi nearly died at the hands of Everett Lynch, a.k.a. “The Chameleon,” and he has developed some new theories, with inspiration from his former partner, Jason Gideon (Ben Savage). The BAU team sets out on an epic hunt to capture Lynch.

Quote

“And in the End” – Following an explosive face-to-face encounter with Everett Lynch, a.k.a. “The Chameleon,” Dr. Reid suffers from a brain injury and, while experiencing hallucinations, is visited by ghosts from his past. Also, the BAU makes a shocking discovery about Lynch that affects Rossi personally, and the entire BAU team comes together to celebrate Rossi’s retirement.

 

[Danielg342]

The one thing I'm hopeful for in this episode is the reappearance of some old faces. I know the guest cast has revealed a few, but I'm also hopeful there are a few surprises that the show is keeping under wraps. I want to say goodbye to the series, and while I don't want the finale to be too much of a nostalgia-fest, I do want at least some nods to its longevity and history.

I will also say that, despite my feelings of the series' quality of late and how much I feel this show is way past its prime, it will be hard to really say goodbye. This show's been with me through many different stretches of my life- some good, and some bad- so even when it went through its lean periods and its eventual decline, it still felt very much a "part" of me so it will be tough to see it go.

Plus, this show was the one that really got me into writing and forging ahead with my own fictional projects, so, for better or for worse, Criminal Minds will always be the show that inspired me the most. Just based on that alone, it will always have a place in my heart.

Yeah, I do think the show in its current state is hardly the same show I fell in love with when it began, and I have questioned whether or not the later episodes are really worthy of belonging in the wide anthology of works attributed to CM.

...but...

Love it or hate it, that anthology is coming to an end, and it will always be bittersweet. Even though I'm ready to say goodbye, it's still not going to be easy- because "goodbye" never is.

[Mysteyman]

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

The one thing I'm hopeful for in this episode is the reappearance of some old faces. I know the guest cast has revealed a few, but I'm also hopeful there are a few surprises that the show is keeping under wraps. I want to say goodbye to the series, and while I don't want the finale to be too much of a nostalgia-fest, I do want at least some nods to its longevity and history.

I will also say that, despite my feelings of the series' quality of late and how much I feel this show is way past its prime, it will be hard to really say goodbye. This show's been with me through many different stretches of my life- some good, and some bad- so even when it went through its lean periods and its eventual decline, it still felt very much a "part" of me so it will be tough to see it go.

Plus, this show was the one that really got me into writing and forging ahead with my own fictional projects, so, for better or for worse, Criminal Minds will always be the show that inspired me the most. Just based on that alone, it will always have a place in my heart.

Yeah, I do think the show in its current state is hardly the same show I fell in love with when it began, and I have questioned whether or not the later episodes are really worthy of belonging in the wide anthology of works attributed to CM.

...but...

Love it or hate it, that anthology is coming to an end, and it will always be bittersweet. Even though I'm ready to say goodbye, it's still not going to be easy- because "goodbye" never is.

WELL SAID!

 

[Mislav]

Unfortunately, "Criminal Minds" simply can not have a truly satisfying, or even decent series finale. The best we can hope for is that nobody gets killed off.

The writers pretty much screwed things up completely by coming up with the whole Chameleon arc, and making that guy the big bad of the final season, and the focus of the final episode(s). He is simply not interesting. At all. Not even his disguise angle is that intetesting or original, since there was already an unsub with that schtick back in season one (Mark Gregory from 1x20 "Charm and Harm"). Even the face removal aspect is nothing new, albeit gruesome: remember 3x6 "About Face"? (I'm surprised they haven't mentioned that... it was Rossi's first episode, after all...)

 

He is not even threatening, because we know that they're not going to kill off any main characters at this point; if something like that happens (hopefully not), it will happen in the final episode, not in four episodes preceding it. Besides, over the last fifteen years, the BAU has taken out guys like Randall Garner, Frank Breitkopf, George Foyet, Billy Flynn, Ian Doyle, Peter Lewis... and now, sleazy conman with mommy issues is supposed to be that big foe?

That is the problem. The Chameleon arc captures all the worst things about new Criminal Minds: borrowing things from older (and better) episodes, ridiculous story directions and plot devices, plot holes, making it personal somehow, trying so hard to make this unsub the biggest and the baddest and the most difficult to catch even though he clearly isn't... etc.

 

But it's not just about the poor quality of the Chameleon storyline, or the choice to make him the show's final unsub. It goes a lot deeper than that. The show has gone on for way too long, there is pretty much nothing that we haven't seen by this point, so coming up with the new big bad fifteen years down the road and expecting him to maks for a satisfying multiple-episode arc and a series finale is tricky, to say the least. Of course, they failed completely.

Making this Rossi's pet case doesn't help either, because we have already had three episodes about Rossi being haunted by the case from his past, and they were all more interesting than this.

Lastly, two of the main cast members, that were on the show from the start and for over a decade (Hotch and Morgan), are not here anymore, and the members of the original cast that are still present have been reduced to caricatures of their former selves. Garcia probably got it the worst (able to pull up any information and access any database with few keystrokes while almost having a mental breakdown at the slightest mention of violence, despite having worked for the BAU for almost two decades by now and making presentations on all of the cases, while also being unable to have a phone conversation without sexual innuendos and snarky comebacks), followed by Spencer (pretty much only used for spouting quirky trivia and "character in a peril" plot device), then Emily. Rossi changed the least, but that doesn't change the fact that he had almost nothing to do over the last few seasons, unless you count soap-opera level of personal drama.

Of course, it was Moore's choice to leave, and Gibson stepped way out of line and got fired. But that is the risk of having the show run for over a decade: things change, stuff happens, and you may end up losing some of the cast members that were part of the show from the beginning... and then what?

Luke and Matt are just awful, I'm sorry. The writers' attempts to make them connect with them are laughable, because, once again, we've seen all of that done before, and done better (mostly with Hotch, and, to an extent, with Morgan; neither of which, to make this even more annoying, are on the show anymore). Their mere inclusion in the show felt like a desperate attempt to make up for the loss of original characters, it failed right away, and any further focus on them just disgusts me even more. I have nothing against the actors, and the characters themselves are not bad people by any means, but man... I can't stand them.

Yes, it is not the showrunner's fault that Thomas Gibson and Shemar Moore left. I was OK with Emily replacing Hotch, since I liked her character and was glad to see her back, and if somebody had to be the unit chief, better it be Emily than a new character (or JJ). But there was really no need for Luke Alvez, or Matt Simmons, or Stephen Walker, even with Morgan being gone. Especially not for Walker or Simmons, because the team had always consisted of seven members (including Garcia) anyway. And it could have worked fine with six. I would have been OK with the team consisting of Emily, JJ, Rossi, Reid, Tara and Garcia. If they had to bring in someone new, it shouldn't have been an obvious stand-in for Morgan, let alone two of them.

 

Tara is OK, I guess, but again, she hasn't had anything to do since season twelve or so.

Not only are those new characters bland and uninteresting, but the team is now so bloated that each character barely gets a few lines per episode. Of course, the unsub taking up fifty percent of the episode doesn't help. I can't stress this enough (even though it is way too late): WE DON'T HAVE TO SEE THE UNSUB FROM THE BEGINNING AND FOLLOW HIM/HER THROUGHOUT THE EPISODE WHILE THE TEAM PLAYS CATCH-UP. Especially not every. Freaking. Episode. I actually think that some of the poorer and admittedly contrived later episodes would have worked much better if we didn't see the unsub from the beginning and the unsub's motivation wasn't clear right away. (13x6 "The Bunker" immediately comes to mind.) At least there would have been an element of mystery and suspense, even if the solution was completely ridiculous.

They had so many opportunities to salvage this show and get it back on the track, instead they just kept digging a bigger hole.

Good riddance.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Mislav

[SSA Emily Prentiss]

Even though I was far from being as connected to the show as I was during the first 7 seasons, I still feel nostalgic at the idea that in a few hours it's gonna be a thing of the past.

 

On another note, look what we have here ! The return of Spencer-Eternal-Damsel-In-Distress-Reid. Just in time for the finale of the show. Yepeeeeeee !!!

Edited February 19, 2020 by SSA Emily Prentiss

[roamyn]

@Mislav you hit many good points.  I would like to state that I do like Alvez, however.

Matt's a blank piece of sheet rock, who's family life gets more focus than he does on a case.

I don't like how they've changed Prentiss, but I guess that could be explained away by her having to become the boss, at a strained time - for both the characters & actors.

My hope is that Jack & Hotch & Alex & Derek show back up, maybe JLH's character (can't remember her name), but not that blonde intern.  Don't know how I'd feel about Elle yet, cause I hate what she did and that she didn't get punished.  And if we're in dream sequence mode, I'd like to see Erin, Jayne could chew up scenery like no tomorrow.

If they're just doing flashbacks, I'm not sure what cases I'd like to see.  There are many.

[Mislav]

And if they kill off Reid in the final episode... that would just be the lowest of the low.

[Aethera]

This is the first time I've watched this show live in years...really, the first time I've watched ANY primetime TV live in years. But I felt like I had to!  I just wanted to say that it's been lovely watching this show with y'all for all these years. I know I don't comment much, but it's been fun watching YOU guys watch it!

I do feel like they tried to stuff far too much into these last 2 hours. Ben Savage didn't get enough time, though I maintain he does a KILLER Mandy Patinkin impression. Nice to see Strauss. The flashbacks didn't add as much as I'd hoped, though it was nice to see the crowd at the wedding flashback at the end, including some of the guest stars on the show then. I do always think these sorts of things are weird - like if this were real life, there's no chance Derek would miss a sendoff party for Garcia, but this is TV, and clearly, they didn't want to go there. Maybe they figured having a couple of folks would draw a big circle around the ones they didn't/couldn't have.

Sorry they destroyed the plane right when it proved "interesting" for 30 seconds. They could have done a longer thing with that. 

I think the writing in the finale was better than any other writing this season, which I have felt was pretty bad at points. Although I do feel like it all fell apart at the party at the end, and then in the after-party scenes too. Pretty hokey, and the pacing was weird, especially that ending. It left me sad, but more sad for the show than sad about the actually ending. Oh well. Twas a long, strange trip, and we'll always have the re-runs! 

 

 

[roamyn]

Well, I’m glad nobody died.  I’m happy for Penelope, she never was comfortable doing liaising, and presenting.  Saw Luke asking her out a mile away.  He always had a special place for Penelope (not sure why and I liked her w/Kevin better).  

I wish Rossi had retired; enough is enough.  Lynch was dragged on faaaarrr too long.  He will always be 3XK to me, anyway.

Love Beth’s hair color.  She looks so much younger.  

But someone tell me why on earth Foyett showed up to Spencer?  He was Hotch’s nemesis.

[Annber03]

16 minutes ago, roamyn said:

But someone tell me why on earth Foyett showed up to Spencer?  He was Hotch’s nemesis.

Somebody in the subreddit discussion suggested it was because Foyet was the epitome of all the evil the team saw, which, if that's the case, would make sense. 

Even then, though, I agree that it's still weird that he's in Reid's brain all the same. We all knew Reid would survive, and he bounced back pretty fast at that, so it seemed kinda pointless to do the brain injury thing at all. It would've been better, and made more sense, to incorporate the flashbacks and memories of deceased loved ones as a means of the team calling on past cases and tragedies to help them with the Lynch case, or recalling loved ones who'd passed while reflecting on the changes happening in their lives, or something. 

I also wish there'd been another way to take out Lynch, 'cause the stuff with the jet was an odd way to go about doing that. I would've liked to see Rossi take him down, instead of have him blown up via jet. Either that or Roberta-I'm kinda sad she died, 'cause I was actually intrigued by her ruthless "take no prisoners" revenge plan. She was an interesting character. 

And while I'm glad that Emily and JJ aren't moving, I wish they'd been able to take the director and unit chief jobs. It would've been nice to see them move up. And Rossi not retiring surprises me, too. I can understand him not wanting to completely break away from this work altogether, but in that case, he could've stayed on to consult and teach, maybe alongside Reid or something (like when they met with those students in "Masterpiece" years ago :p). 

It is strange that Garcia's ultimately the one to leave, but given how she struggles with so much of what they see, it makes sense. I'm glad that she'll still be close by, though, and still doing good things to help people. And she and Luke finally make a breakthrough as well! Nice :). The party with everyone singing and dancing together was really cute and fun, and I definitely got all teary at the last ten, fifteen minutes or so in general, because I am an emotional sap :p. 

And while some of the visions were weird, it was nice to see some old faces, and the nod to the first season was a nice touch :). I can totally see Reid wanting to remember a happy moment like that. I'm also glad he got to make peace with Maeve, though it's odd that Max wasn't even mentioned. I'm assuming that relationship is still going, or...? 

So. That's that, then. The show is officially done. It's going to be so weird to not have this show to watch on Wednesdays anymore. I'll miss this show, and the characters, but I thank the cast and crew for fifteen amazing years. 

[roamyn]

18 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Somebody in the subreddit discussion suggested it was because Foyet was the epitome of all the evil the team saw, which, if that's the case, would make sense. 

I also wish there'd been another way to take out Lynch, 'cause the stuff with the jet was an odd way to go about doing that. I would've liked to see Rossi take him down, instead of have him blown up via jet. Either that or Roberta-I'm kinda sad she died, 'cause I was actually intrigued by her ruthless "take no prisoners" revenge plan. She was an interesting character.

I definitely got all teary at the last ten, fifteen minutes or so in general, because I am an emotional sap

So. That's that, then. The show is officially done. It's going to be so weird to not have this show to watch on Wednesdays anymore. I'll miss this show, and the characters, but I thank the cast and crew for fifteen amazing years. 

1). But there were so many good evil guys.  Frank, the Fisher guy, Tim Curry’s character, Mr. Scratch.  Obviously a Tim wouldn’t be able to appear, but Mr. Scratch esp went after all members of the team.

But I can see the reasoning now:  Foyett is the bad in the world, Erin is the struggles to fight that bad (she represents bureaucracy), and Maeve the good in the world.

2). I had read where Erica said there would be a loss in the finale, and I was worried it was gonna be Rossi ‘s wife.  Then I thought Penelope leaving.  But I just read a Q&A where Erica says the loss was the plane, which was a character in its own right.

I got ready eyed too, so you’re not a sap.  I second those thanks.  We have years & years of re-runs.  Some bad, but mostly good. It was a great run.

Edited February 20, 2020 by roamyn

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, roamyn said:

But I can see the reasoning now:  Foyett is the bad in the world, Erin is the struggles to fight that bad (she represents bureaucracy), and Maeve the good in the world.

Ahhhhh, I like that theory :D. That's good. 

And yeah, I remember reading about the death and it being called a "weirdly sad" one, which implied it wasn't someone we'd have the closest attachment to. Having it be the jet makes sense. Though now I wonder where they got the money for a new jet, and in such a quick time, too :p. 

[Gramto6]

I missed what happened to JJ moving to LA.  What happened there?

[Gramto6]

19 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Ahhhhh, I like that theory :D. That's good. 

And yeah, I remember reading about the death and it being called a "weirdly sad" one, which implied it wasn't someone we'd have the closest attachment to. Having it be the jet makes sense. Though now I wonder where they got the money for a new jet, and in such a quick time, too :p. 

I would guess the jets are basically already built and just the special add ons have to be added. Like the hidden gun compartment and the blow up go bang feature... lol

[Danielg342]

You know, I have a feeling that when CM fans made a list of things they wanted to see in the finale, I'm sure that list didn't include "have the finale be a tribute to Penelope Garcia."

That was just the beginning of the problems with this finale. Now, before I continue, let me say that I didn't have high hopes for this episode. I didn't expect stellar television. I also didn't expect a stellar resolution to the S15 story as I am of the opinion- like many of you- that the S15 story was simply too underwhelming a story to begin with, let alone be the kind of story that could properly used to send off a show that once was as great as Criminal Minds.

I mean, if all we got was a two hour resolution to the Everett Lynch case with a final party at the end- where we finally learn the future of our BAU heroes- I would have been fine with it. Truth be told, when I'm saying goodbye to a series, I don't want something convoluted or ridiculous- I just want to enjoy the show one last time.

...but, for some reason, I didn't even get that tonight. Above all the other issues I have with this episode- and I have plenty- the fact that I simply didn't get one last story to enjoy is what really bothers me about this finale.

I could start by- again- admonishing the writers' hubris, because they once again lathered this episode with so many nonsensical twists and turns that the writers think makes them look clever when it really makes them look clumsy. I suppose it's fitting the finale's writing went the same as the writing of recent vintage, because why should I expect the CM writers to learn the lesson "take good care of your story and remember, just because you can doesn't mean you should" in the finale when they haven't learned that in the years before?

...but I've wasted too much time on that before. Just as I've wasted too much time taking apart elements that happened in this episode (like the writers' obsession with family-oriented cases) that have happened before.

So I won't get into that. I know I've meandered, but, hey, so did this finale.

What I will get into- and close with- that it would have been nice if, just once, the CM writers just gave us what we expected.

One, this was all set up to be Rossi's grand send-off- so the story should have Rossi taking centre stage (more than he did)- with Rossi's grand retirement at the end. Because, really, what else can Rossi do?

Two, Reid's brain trauma served no purpose except to "damsel" Reid again (something the show has done too much and I've wasted too much time before talking about how nauseating and disgusting it is when they do it) and to have flashbacks that made no sense. I'm sure that if Reid had a "picture of evil" it would have been Tobias Hankel or even Cat (this would have been a better time to bring her back than "Date Night").

Oh, and speaking of "Date Night"- no Maxine? Really? How could the producers be so short-sighted that they didn't think the character would appear at Rossi's party? When they planned for the character that should have been part of the plan. Really, Max not being there was inexcusable.

Also, speaking of flashbacks- did anyone else think the writers were rehashing "Won't Get Fooled Again" when Prentiss noted that six FBI agents lost their lives at the house explosion? Just like Jason Gideon did in a warehouse explosion no less before the start of the series?

Three, promote Prentiss to Director and either give the BAU to JJ or have her transfer to New Orleans. I'm not sure what else either character had left to achieve in the BAU, and I think it's high time that JJ repaid Will for all the sacrifices he's made for her.

Fourth, Garcia. Fine- say goodbye to her. However, she's not the kind of character who deserves a "grand send-off" because I don't think she's up there in terms of characters the fans had fondness for. Of course, I grant that's subjective. However, that's not the only issue I will raise about her goodbye- the bigger issue is how they said goodbye to her. They practically treated her like some saintly child who was "such an inspiration" for the team, brushing aside her emotional selfishness, her neediness, her lack of professionalism and her distinct lack of maturity not just as if it didn't matter but were actually good traits.

I've been critical of the show "infantalizing" Garcia as well as the show dismissing those concerns (see "The Black Queen"), but I'd never think the show would stoop so low as to bask in Garcia's hubris and pretend that her childishness deserves reverence, not the criticism it so rightly deserves.

Fifth, the jet. I actually liked that the show said goodbye to the jet, but the show did nothing to actually display what Rossi was talking about when he said "there's things you don't know about this jet". I was expecting something like Rossi using a secret code to get the jet to automatically fly back to the FBI and trap Lynch in the cockpit so that when he lands he could be arrested. That might have been fun to learn. The fact that it has a hidden gun? Please. Shouldn't that be expected?

All in all...I could go on with how underwhelmed I was even by the standards I have set...but I have said too much.

It's time I just wrap this up and say "goodbye" and "thank you". Because, for all its faults, for all its low points and for all its weaknesses, this show was a huge part of my life and, as much as I wish I could have said goodbye in a better manner tonight, I still have to do it and I still have to acknowledge all the joy it brought me before.

So, CM, thanks for all the memories and all the stories, the good and the bad.

...and thanks for all the fish. 😉

[ForeverAlone]

I keep checking the clock while watching the finale, and that is never a good sign. There is WAY too much unsub in this endeavor and too little team so far. I don't give a rat's ass about Everett Lynch or his daddy issues or Roberta and her abuse issues. Boring as all get out. I hope this improves in the second half. 

[Raja]

Yippee ki yay broadcast standards

[Danielg342]

A few other thoughts that I didn't cover before:

• The Doylist in me says the show reached out to as many past CM actors as they could and simply went with what they got. Which could explain why we saw George Foyet (C. Thomas Howell) and not Tobias Hankel (James van der Beek), who would have made better sense in Reid's hallucinations.
  • I still think, though, that if the show had always planned for Reid to have hallucinations in the finale that this would have been a better episode for Cat to appear in than "Date Night". It would have also been a better place for Maxine to show up to, as Maeve could have helped Reid beat Cat in his dreams and point him to Maxine and make him realize that he does have something to live for.
• You'd think Reid would understand the risks of a concussion better than anyone else, so why he didn't go to the hospital after being caught in the explosion is beyond me.
• I wonder if, before Shemar Moore left the series, Morgan+Garcia was the endgame. It would explain why Luke+Garcia became "endgame", because Luke was brought in to "replace" Morgan. I think it's an awkward pairing because, although I think they have great on-screen chemistry, I'm not quite sure I'd buy an attraction between the two. Luke seems to prefer girls who are "down to Earth" (how Lisa came across to me) and Garcia was much better with Kevin Lynch.
  • I also don't know how much I like Luke's breakup with Lisa being just a throwaway line. If the writers never meant that pair to be "endgame" then they should have broken them up in Episode 14.05, "Luke" when it could have actually meant something.
• Lastly, if the show really wanted a swerve where Rossi's party is not his retirement party, why couldn't it have been a party where Prentiss announces she was confirmed by the Senate for FBI Director? That would be reason enough to hold a big party.

[ForeverAlone]

Hmmm...well at least there was more team in the second hour, but of course they had to bring Lynch back for one final, ridiculous turn. I can't believe they actually were allowed to sacrifice the private jet just to get him. And the FBI just gifted them a new one? Yeah, sure, okay. Emily should be glad she still has a job after that screw up with the SWAT team. But no more director consideration for her. 

Did Reid not go to the hospital after the explosion, even though he was thrown to the ground and likely would have had TBI? I found it unbelievable that they didn't do a thorough examination of him and caught an intracranial brain bleed. Shoddy storytelling on their part. 

The fact that Rossi didn't actually retire is nearly as ridiculous as the jet thing. I mean, let's be real. He is LONG past mandatory retirement age. Depending on which age you want to consider canon, he is either 64 or no younger than 70. So stupid. 

Finally Penelope's mind can be free by moving to Silicon Valley and making gobs of money without having to flit about looking at murder scenes she should have gotten used to years ago.

Overall, it was okay. It certainly could have been worse. I liked Reid's scenes with Maeve, and it just drove home that the writers screwed up by killing her off for cheap shock drama. I assume he is still dating Max, but no mention of her, so who knows (and honestly, even though I liked her, I don't really care). 

Of the new characters, I really only LOVED Tara, even though the others were fine. But some of the camaraderie felt forced at times. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by ForeverAlone

[Mysteyman]

I enjoyed it.

And that's all.I wanted.

[The Wild Sow]

6 hours ago, roamyn said:

2). I had read where Erica said there would be a loss in the finale, and I was worried it was gonna be Rossi ‘s wife.  Then I thought Penelope leaving.  But I just read a Q&A where Erica says the loss was the plane, which was a character in its own right.

 

6 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

And yeah, I remember reading about the death and it being called a "weirdly sad" one, which implied it wasn't someone we'd have the closest attachment to. Having it be the jet makes sense. Though now I wonder where they got the money for a new jet, and in such a quick time, too :p. 

The look on everybody's faces when the jet went up in flames -- "Dang...I liked that plane!"

Did Rossi buy the new one with his book profits?  Isn't that how they got the first one? 

[SSA Emily Prentiss]

Wow ! A party for immature woman child Garcia ? Doesn't sound like something I really wanna watch.

[Chaos Theory]

I liked it.

Was it perfect?   No.  But it was better then most of the season has been so I am grading on a curve and it kept me entertained.

I did like that Krystall was able to hold her own against Lynch and I thought maybe the show would have been  better if they had drawn it out and compared it to the scene in 100.   Bring home how Krystall isn’t Haylee and how for better and worse Rossi is in a marriage that understands him.   Which is why he will never truly retire.

i also like Reid’s coma dream.  All the people in it did make sense to me.  The Reaper is the epitome of evil and when things changed for the team.   Strauss was them trying to work in the system and Maeve was love turned tragic.  
 

I also liked The Garcia stuff.   I always had a fondness for the Garcia/Luke pairing and thought the show should have gone  with it from the start and giving luke a gf was a misstep.    So having him ask Garcia out worked for me. Plus for better and worse Garcia has been on the show from day one so she does deserve a proper send off

I likes the Roberta stuff and kinda wished she had been the one who got out alive instead of Lynch and then the group had to contend with her.  But to have her go after her son so hard and then fumble the ball seemed weak to me.

I also liked them blowing up the plane.

What I didn’t like was Emily and Jj not getting promoted.   I get why the show did it.   The more things change.....but it left a bad taste in my mouth.

Still I liked the episode enough to at least give it a C rating.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[preeya]

8 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Lastly, if the show really wanted a swerve where Rossi's party is not his retirement party, why couldn't it have been a party where Prentiss announces she was confirmed by the Senate for FBI Director? That would be reason enough to hold a big party.

IMO, that would have been way, way OTT.  Actually, it should have been Rossi's "swan song" not Penelope's.

[Mysteyman]

Emily was NEVER going to be FBI Director.

[tomorrowgirl]

I liked the finale.  Could it have been better?  Of course - it's not easy to end a 15 year run in 45 minutes.  Most series finales don't seem to satisfy people, but I was satisfied with this one.  I didn't mind the focus on Garcia in the last scene.  I've never minded her character. I do find it pretty unbelievable that Rossi didn't retire.  I looked up the mandatory retirement age for an FBI agent, and it's 57.  I think he is beyond that age. I'm going to miss this show, although there are always reruns to watch.  I did get teary at the end.

[Mislav]

Where was Max?

[preeya]

24 minutes ago, tomorrowgirl said:

I looked up the mandatory retirement age for an FBI agent, and it's 57.  I think he is beyond that age.

Joe Mantegna is 72 years old; way beyond the FBI's expiration date.

[Chaos Theory]

When it comes down to it I think there is maybe only a few episodes I really HATED 

1.  The Reid in prison episodes 

2. The Linda Barnes Episodes

3.  Most of the final season.   Although i did like the finale

 

The rest of the show for better and worse there were aspects I always did like about the show even if it did get imperfect or problematic.

i liked most of the temporary team members.   Yes even JLH.   I actually thought ending Kate’s story where it did was sad because there was room for a lot of great storylines.   I also liked both Jordon Todd and Ashley Seaver.   I though Ashley Seaver had a horrible Time of it getting blamed for something that was largely not her fault and a few problematic storylines. And Jordon Todd was written to show how emotionally tough the job actually was and not something you can just grab a temp for so her storyline worked for me.   Plus there were some fun Unsubs.

 

Losing Hotch i think damaged the show but not beyond repair.   If anything I think it was some really good writing that saved it and some really crappy writing that doomed it.   Still for a procedural Criminal Minds was one of my favorites from top to bottom.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[idiotwaltz]

My favourite part of the finale was the flashbacks. Unfortunately, they highlighted how much of a mess this show has become. In all honesty, I was a Prentiss fan to begin with, so in my mind the show ended in Season 7 when she left. I didn't like her coming back as unit chief, not because I had problems with her being unit chief, but I just felt like Prentiss 2.0 was not quite the same. I feel like I said goodbye to the show already so I'm not too torn up about the fact that this is really the finale. 

I'm not going to comment on the case because I hadn't followed the Lynch so I mostly rolled my eyes during the first half of the finale. My UO is that I don't give a fig about season-long baddies, I just want them to solve cases that are within the realm of reality. Anyway, I genuinely LOLed when the jet exploded into flames. 

I do have to say that I loved It's a Wonderful Reid. I'm not the biggest fan of Reid or MGG but I thought he was really fantastic in the dream sequences. Beth Riesgraf looks so much prettier without the wig and frumpy wardrobe and she played off really well with MGG. I still think MGG has the best chemistry with Aubrey Plaza but he has a different kind of chemistry with Beth that is really very sweet. 

I can't believe that NOBODY left the team except Garcia. How anticlimactic. I was kind of hoping that the finale would be everyone moving on and us getting a glimpse of their new lives: Emily in Denver, JJ in New Orleans, Rossi in retirement, Garcia at her non-profit, Reid teaching, Matt and his wife having more kids and getting their own reality TV show. Luke and Tara can stay on in the BAU and lead a new team.  

I really did love CM in its glory days, but I do feel the show had run its course and this was a good way to go. 

ETA: The show finally broke the mold and gave us a BAU baby that’s a girl! (I don’t take Matt’s twins into account because they were born before he joined the BAU). 

Edited February 20, 2020 by idiotwaltz

[Mysteyman]

Max not being there, could have been a couple of things maybe the actress couldn't make it or maybe they just wanted to focus on the team. It was kind of The season of Reid. You kind of got the feeling that he was going to be okay.

 

[Shellie]

10 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

Did Reid not go to the hospital after the explosion, even though he was thrown to the ground and likely would have had TBI? I found it unbelievable that they didn't do a thorough examination of him and caught an intracranial brain bleed. Shoddy storytelling on their part. 

 

I found it unbelievable as well.  I thought that would have been required.  Also, the comment from the doctor after Reid woke up, something like, "He'll have to stay overnight for testing." My friend and I laughed out loud.  Um yeah, you think?

I didn't see Reid's otherworldly experience as a dream or hallucination, but rather an actual near-death experience where he was able to converse with people on the other side.

[SSA Emily Prentiss]

Was there even a little flashback of Hotch ?

[Mysteyman]

7 minutes ago, SSA Emily Prentiss said:

Was there even a little flashback of Hotch ?

Yep. It was scene from the intro of the Fisher King, Part 1.

[roamyn]

8 minutes ago, SSA Emily Prentiss said:

Was there even a little flashback of Hotch ?

Yes.  The very first scene of the series, and Hotch was in that one.  They showed him beating the crap outta Foyett, as well.

I don't find it inconceivable that no one left except Garcia.  That's normal life.  One person moves on, then later another retires, maybe someone dies.  But it's more ridiculous that Rossi didn't retire.  Watching it again, it sounded like he was going to, just in a few months.  You have to break in a new tech analyst, so breaking in a new agent to replace Rossi at the same time can be a good thing, or too much, depending on how you see it.  

[SSA Emily Prentiss]

Just now, Mysteyman said:

Yep. It was scene from the intro of the Fisher King, Part 1.

Cool ! Thanks.

[SSA Emily Prentiss]

Just now, roamyn said:

Yes.  The very first scene of the series, and Hotch was in that one.  They showed him beating the crap outta Foyett, as well.

  

Ok thanks. But I wish they had shown another scene of him. Like when he's in the conference room with the team, saying "Wheels up...", or on the plane, giving instructions to everyone, or with his FBI jacket on, preparing for an attack.... you know, the kind of scenes where he was in control and made my mouth drop just looking at him. ***sighs***

Edited February 20, 2020 by SSA Emily Prentiss

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

When it comes down to it I think there is maybe only a few episodes I really HATED 

1.  The Reid in prison episodes 

2. The Linda Barnes Episodes

3.  Most of the final season.   Although i did like the finale

 

The rest of the show for better and worse there were aspects I always did like about the show even if it did get imperfect or problematic.

i likes most of the temporary team members.   Yes even JLH.   I actually thought ending Kate’s story where it did was sad because there was room for a lot of great storylines.   I also liked both Jordon Todd and Ashley Seaver.   I though Ashley Seaver has a horrible Time of it getting blamed for something that was largely not her fault and a few problematic storylines. And Jordon Todd was written to show how emotionally tough the job actually was and not something you can just grab a temp for so her storyline worked for me.   Plus there were some fun Unsubs.

 

Losing Hotch i think damaged the show but not beyond repair.   If anything I think it was some really good writing that saved it and some really crappy writing that doomed it.   Still for a procedural Criminal Minds was one of my favorites from top to bottom.

Pretty much agreed with this post and your other one overall. For me there's really very little in the way of storylines and whatnot that I think I truly hated. There's individual episodes that may not be my favorites, and storylines I may like more than others, but I can find something from every single season and storyline to enjoy, even if it's just the occasion episode or character moments or whatnot throughout. The characters were what drew me to this show and kept me watching it, so as long as I got to enjoy seeing them interact each week, that made me pretty forgiving of a lot of the more wacky moments in the show's run as a result :p. 

[Mysteyman]

Let's take a moment to mourn the cast member that we.  All said good bye to last night, THE JET!

  It reminded me of the final action scene from Die Hard 2. I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY DID THAT!

Edited February 20, 2020 by Mysteyman

[Danielg342]

What grated me most about Garcia is that Kirsten Vangsness had a hand in writing this episode so all the fawning Garcia received at the end was even harder for me to stomach. On one hand, it was another display of Garcia's characterization during "Ex Parte", where Garcia's vaingloriousness and sanctimony was not just brushed aside but treated as if Garcia was some kind of righteous, inspirational figure whose actions we all could learn from.

Seeing that on display again was bad enough. Knowing that the possibility exists that Vangsness herself put that in there makes it even worse, because then it treats the finale as if this was her own vanity project.

No, Kirsten, CM's finale isn't just about saying goodbye to you. It's also about saying goodbye to Joe, AJ, Adam, Matt, Paget, Tara and Daniel as well. You don't get to hijack their swan song just so you can have your "special moment" and "stick it" to people like me who I think have very valid criticisms about the character of Penelope Garcia.

I mean, even at its best, Criminal Minds was never "The Penelope Garcia Show". Why Garcia doesn't just get the grandest sendoff but the only sendoff is beyond me.

Now, I'm sure Kirsten's a lovely lady and her co-workers loved working alongside her- otherwise she wouldn't have lasted from the very first episode in the series. I also imagine the rest of the cast and the writers had a say in what they think should happen in the finale, and I can't imagine there was anyone on the CM set who was actually upset that the only member of the BAU to get a grand sendoff was Garcia.

...but, just because they liked it doesn't mean I have to...and I don't like someone hijacking the finale to what was my all-time favourite show and ruin my ultimate goodbye to it just so she could do something to "feel better about herself".

That kind of vanity really rubs me the wrong way, and it's even worse when I realize this was the same network where they had another finale where one character realized his vanity went too far and went out of his way to make it up to his friends*.

I do want to state, before I close this section of the post, that I stopped caring about the characters and the storylines around S10 or S11, because that was the point when I felt CM's problems were so far entrenched I didn't think there was a way back, though I think CM stopped being a show I liked with characters I was actually invested in after "The Longest Night", because that's really where CM's quality issues took their definitive turn for the worst.

I mean, there came a point where I thought "does it really matter that Garcia's a petulant child, Reid is basically used to recite the Wikipedia article the writer read that day, Hotch only says 'Wheels up in thirty' and the rest of the team are just there to say the lines the writers need them to say?" because after the 500th time seeing it, you give up hope that the writers will ever see that as an issue and make the necessary adjustment.

It's part and parcel with CM's overall decline in quality and my subsequent lowering of expectations regarding future episodes. After all, it was The X-Files' Chris Carter who once said, "lower your standards and you can go on forever".

I'm sure that was hanging up on the wall in the CM writers' room.

Having said that, there are still points where, even with lowered standards, you can call out the CM writers for not even hitting that low of a bar. Like using Reid as a perpetual damsel. Like Prentiss having two different standards for agents who go rogue on her team. Like the show coming up with great ideas for plots (like the Barnes storyline) and never putting in the effort to actually execute them properly. Like the fact that our final season told a haphazard tale of an UnSub that, in S3, Rossi could catch in his sleep (and was hardly ever interesting).

...and like when Garcia's childishness rises above simple annoying petulance and becomes all about massaging Garcia's fragile ego and mistaking sanctimony for inspirational.

Which in this case seems to mean that it's not just Garcia on an ego trip, it's Vangsness as well. Which I can't accept at any point, let alone the finale.

Spoiler

*I'm talking about The Big Bang Theory finale, in case anyone was wondering.

 As for Max being MIA- I don't fault Rachel Leigh Cook for her absence. I fault Erica Messer and her casting director for not planning to have Max in the finale. It's on the producers to ensure they cast someone who can appear in the necessary episodes, and, at the very least, if Cook had to cancel her appearance at the last second, they could have covered that with a simple line. Unless Vangsness' ego wouldn't allow that to happen.

[Pietr]

What caught my attention was Foyett's meta-remark "I was the beginning of your end"

I actually shouted "True" at the TV.  Foyett truly was the beginning of the long downhill slide to the end for this show.  He was what laid the groundwork for the writers to insist on making long overarching big baddies, with ridiculous skill sets and irrational personal grudges against the team, that ultimately led us to Lynch.

 

[idiotwaltz]

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

What grated me most about Garcia is that Kirsten Vangsness had a hand in writing this episode so all the fawning Garcia received at the end was even harder for me to stomach. On one hand, it was another display of Garcia's characterization during "Ex Parte", where Garcia's vaingloriousness and sanctimony was not just brushed aside but treated as if Garcia was some kind of righteous, inspirational figure whose actions we all could learn from.

Seeing that on display again was bad enough. Knowing that the possibility exists that Vangsness herself put that in there makes it even worse, because then it treats the finale as if this was her own vanity project.

I hear you, Daniel, which is why I fast forwarded most of her speech at the end. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth that the very last minutes of this show were dedicated to her and her mysterious letter. Garcia has never been a favourite and while I valued her contribution to the team in Seasons 1-3, I found her quirks to be obnoxious pretty quickly once the show started giving her very! special! episodes. Honestly, your literal job is to help catch serial killers. If you can't handle the squick, get a new job. Stop whining about it. 

I was a huge fan of Gilmore Girls in its original run when I was a teenager/in my early twenties. Upon rewatching it as a grown-ass human being, I found Lorelai's quirks to be totally annoying and unbearable rather than charming. I feel the same way about Garcia's quirks, except I never found them charming in the first place.  

[bkathi]

I loved the last scene of all of them in the elevator on their way to the airport.  The heroes are on the way to save the day.  

I don't think I want a reboot with the same characters - but would love to see a Gideon/Rossi prequel.  Ben Savage does such a good job as Gideon.

Who were all of the extra people at the party?  Crew?

[Mysteyman]

I was kind of disappointed that we  didn't see young Rossi, too.

[Mysteyman]

One of  the nice things about the show ending  is that it is now  a complete story.

Granted, CM is not a serialized show.

 But,  it is still a pretty large encompassing story and you can pick and choose what to watch.

For the record, my least favorite season is 6, HANDS DOWN! It just felt like the season that was managed by the suits JJ WAS GONE IN EPISODE 2 WITH  NO BUILDUP!

Just  my thoughts. I apologize if people like season 6, I just felt like the suits had their fingerprints all over that season. 

[Danielg342]

19 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

After all, it was The X-Files' Chris Carter who once said, "lower your standards and you can go on forever".

I'm sure that was hanging up on the wall in the CM writers' room.

I realized I misattributed this quote. It was actually Mike Scully, former showrunner for The Simpsons, who actually said it:

https://www.thetelegram.com/lifestyles/entertainment/the-first-full-episode-of-the-simpsons-aired-30-years-ago-today-389231/

(...and the actual quote is: "lower your quality standards and you can go on forever")

Edited February 22, 2020 by Danielg342

[smoker]

It's been awhile since I last watched an episode of Criminal Minds or wrote something about it, but this is a special time, so here I go... 

@Danielg342, you need to know how much your reviews have meant to me in these last times. I’ve always thought alike in many things, but from season 11 (when it was evident to me the show was finished even for its Messer Age standard) till this last week, every time I've wanted to check the quality or interest of one episode I found myself searching for your mark, that awesome capital letter. Somehow it helped me to control my hype and not drowning on my own disappointment. Your reviews reflect completely my feelings and never fail to put a smile on my face.

Thank you very much for all that @Danielg342!

 

Well, I am gonna focus on the series finale now.

There are many reruns here and it’s been a very long time since I felt the urge to do a proper rewatch, and that's it, I watched the pilot of the show this afternoon, as a send-off.

Of course, the pilot is still awesome, it doesn’t look dated and actors are amazing. Only quality writing and good work get that.

Somehow, this rewatch served to refresh why I loved this show and more important, it made me feel I am right to be angry about the stupid and careless way Erica Messer led this show to the most absolute putrefaction.

Changing the tone in the wrong way, lazy and bad writing, exorbitant nepotism, embarrassing characters and situations, evident lack of interest everywhere (production, writing, acting...).

I knew the finale would be horrible, but I never saw that coming. KV personal relationship with EM has been a letal infection to this show. The premise of Penelope being the key stone and heart of the show is disgusting and makes no sense, it's a slap in the face of the fans.

I'll have to keep rewatching first seasons to get the bad taste out of my mouth.

Edited February 22, 2020 by smoker

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, smoker said:

@Danielg342, you need to know how much your reviews have meant to me in these last times. I’ve always thought alike in many things, but from season 11 (when it was evident to me the show was finished even for its Messer Age standard) till this last week, every time I've wanted to check the quality or interest of one episode I found myself searching for your mark, that awesome capital letter. Somehow it helped me to control my hype and not drowning on my own disappointment. Your reviews reflect completely my feelings and never fail to put a smile on my face.

Thank you very much for all that @Danielg342!

Thank you, @smoker. 🙂 You made my day. I would like to say that I am not going anywhere- as long as there is TV to watch, I will be there to review it. Obviously now it will be on to other shows.

Maybe I can make a career out of this. It's been fun, I gotta say.

15 hours ago, bkathi said:

I don't think I want a reboot with the same characters - but would love to see a Gideon/Rossi prequel.  Ben Savage does such a good job as Gideon.

I'm down for Criminal Minds: Origins, though under two conditions:

1. They replace young Rossi as I didn't like Robert Dunne. Maybe this show could convince Ben Savage's Boy Meets World alum Rider Strong to join him here too. They'd also have to remember that Max Ryan existed.
2. It has the team hunting the legendary serial killers of the past. This show can't just be "Criminal Minds but in the '70s and '80s"- this show should be the place to see the team hunt the likes of the Son of Sam, Zodiac, Ed Gein, Ted Bundy et all, especially considering how many times CM has insinuated that Rossi and the BAU played a hand in capturing those criminals.

[Mysteyman]

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

Thank you, @smoker. 🙂 You made my day. I would like to say that I am not going anywhere- as long as there is TV to watch, I will be there to review it. Obviously now it will be on to other shows.

Maybe I can make a career out of this. It's been fun, I gotta say.

I'm down for Criminal Minds: Origins, though under two conditions:

1. They replace young Rossi as I didn't like Robert Dunne. Maybe this show could convince Ben Savage's Boy Meets World alum Rider Strong to join him here too. They'd also have to remember that Max Ryan existed.
2. It has the team hunting the legendary serial killers of the past. This show can't just be "Criminal Minds but in the '70s and '80s"- this show should be the place to see the team hunt the likes of the Son of Sam, Zodiac, Ed Gein, Ted Bundy et all, especially considering how many times CM has insinuated that Rossi and the BAU played a hand in capturing those criminals.

The idea of going after the serial killers of the past is indeed a good one, but Hulu's Mindhunter has already covered that ground.

[Mystery]

On 2/19/2020 at 9:36 PM, Danielg342 said:

You know, I have a feeling that when CM fans made a list of things they wanted to see in the finale, I'm sure that list didn't include "have the finale be a tribute to Penelope Garcia."

Preach. They couldn't have chosen a character I wanted to see less. And the way the show has been forcing her to "flirt" with Luke, that was totally expected, too. 

 

On 2/19/2020 at 11:06 PM, ForeverAlone said:

Finally Penelope's mind can be free by moving to Silicon Valley and making gobs of money without having to flit about looking at murder scenes she should have gotten used to years ago.

She said she's staying local, though. 

One thing I liked was Emily saying she'd cut her hair. She did that a while back and has been wearing a wig. Which is good, because those bangs were heinous and I'd hate to think she had to wear them all the time.

Here's a tweet about it: