Speculation Without Spoilers

[fliptopbox]

I mentioned this in the episode 3 thread, but I am pretty sure whoever Daryl has with him is from wherever Beth is. Either they caught up to the driver and took them hostage before they reached the destination, or they followed the driver back and gained access. Maybe Carol even stayed behind to infiltrate, considering they only seem interested in women. Though there very well could be a mens' area, and they just didn't want Daryl. I wouldn't be shocked about that.

 

I also am guessing they're doing more than just repopulation at said facility. There's probably some degree of creepy experimentations happening. Maybe even mutant zombies! Who knows who these 'doctors' (or whoever) are at this point so there's a lot of room for crazy, fucked up theories to run wild.

 

Besides, it beats watching Abraham and Eugene drive off in a short bus.

[fliptopbox]

Speaking of, where exactly are we supposed to believe Abraham and Co. are going to stop to refuel that thing? Siphoning from abandoned cars along the way will only get them so far, especially for a 600+ mile trip. I mean yes, it's likely they'll abandon the bus for a better vehicle if they find it, but that's what they are in now. And there's the factoring of the major traffic jams of dead cars Rick and crew encountered in season 2. Anywhere remotely close to a city will be impossible to drive through on a major road. That's one area that there's very little realism...travel by car in a ZA situation just doesn't seem that realistic unless you're in mostly rural areas.

Edited October 28, 2014 by fliptopbox

[kikismom]

I reject the breeding program stuff completely.

Breeding humans for research--- I hope no one needs results soon.

 

Repopulation? The Black Plague, the Spanish Influenza, wiped out a huge percentage of the human population. And people are still coming out of the woodwork like roaches.

Other goals are a priority first. Once threats have been eliminated, the human race has always had an easy time repopulating. World War 2 killed millions upon millions,...and was immmediately followed by the largest demographic increase in history...the baby boom;

 

It helps not to have large numbers of babies when you don't even have food shelter medicine and safety for existing adults. Who would create Darfur with zombies? And if you aren't making large numbers of babies, what's the point of a program?

 

You won't luck upon an immune "specimen" by random pregnancies, and you need lots of pregnant girls to test some genome/bioweapon/vaccine plot. Driving down dirt roads at night around Hickville in an old Lincoln sedan seems inefficient. If that's how they get kidnapped, how technologically advanced can this program be, seriously?

 

They aren't going to repopulate now just to have a new generation be dead at 3 weeks old. And without food, shelter, medicine etc. that's about how long many babies would live in a ZA. Please remember that disease like diphtheria etc never went away...we just got vaccines so we don't worry. The ZA means no more vaccinations, no more inoculations, a bad risky world just in terms of exposure to diseases we have not worried about for years. That's not counting zombies, starving, pedophiles, cannibals, etc.

[ghoulina]

If Beth wasn't in the car when Daryl and Carol went after it, I'm guessing they caught up to the car and have a prisoner they need to interrogate for Beth's whereabouts.  I think this will lead CDB to the hospital where Beth is and where they will magically reunite with the Clown Car Crew.

 

I like this theory the best. I also said that I just didn't think Daryl had been gone long enough to have found and rescued Beth. 

 

I wonder if they'll ever bring back the people from the episode with the guns, when Glenn was kidnapped. I doubt they will, but I sometimes wonder what happened to them in the Walking Dead world. I remember the Governor visiting a hospital to get an oxygen tank, was it? and wondering if it was the same place. I really need to watch the rest of the episodes on netflix.

 

Those were the Vatos. And, no, it wasn't the same place the Governor went. The Vatos were in downtown ATL. I'm not one of those experts on the locations of all of these places, but ever since they left the quarry I think they've all been pretty far out of the ATL area.  When the Guv was staying with those girls, and went to the nursing home, it appeared to be just another small town. 

[lulee]

Yeah, you're right. I know it's wishful thinking on my part to hope that Daryl will be returning with both Carol and Beth - meaning that they'd all be safe and the Beth storyline wouldn't be too protracted. I hope that the show isn't going to substitute bigger story arcs for a bunch of smaller adventures with the split-up groups. I think that worked for the second half of season 4 but I don't know if I want them to do it again.

 

I do fear for Carol's fate this season, but after all the show has done to reshape her character, it would be an incredible momentum-stopper to kill her in episode 4 or 5. I wouldn't be surprised if she's a shocking! death! if they're doing a midseason "finale" or in the second half of the season.

Edited October 28, 2014 by lulee

[editorgrrl]

From the "Four Walls and a Roof" episode thread:

As many have been referring to the truthfulness/merits (or lack thereof) of pursuing Eugene’s “cure,” it may be useful to clarify what that plan actually is.

 

As he stated in the train car, he actually does not have a cure – not in the medical sense anyway. What he claims to have is a weapon; the formula to a biochemical pathogen that will wipe out all the zombies.  As such, he does not need some medical lab or CDC type research facility, intact or otherwise. What he needs is access to a weapons delivery system.  (Presumably, the pathogen will linger in the environment after all the initial walkers are killed off so anyone who dies later from natural causes  will immediately croak – again – before they can get up or something, but it isn’t actually going to cure anyone). According to what he told Sasha in the train car, the trigger to exactly such a delivery system exists in DC.

 

Having said that, even if true, this makes his story even more ridiculous. Getting to the launch trigger facility in DC is going to do precisely nothing even if it is still staffed (somehow I doubt that keeping anthrax missiles trained on N. Korea and the like is going to remain a high priority task for the military post ZA) with generals that have the necessary codes, programmers who can re-program the targeting system and some techies to mass manufacture the pathogen. Someone has still got to go round replacing all the payloads with “Eugene formula”’ payload, getting the electricity generators back on etc. at every.single.individual.silo located across the entire country before the trigger is going to do any good at all. Who the heck is going to do that?

 

[lulee]

I hadn't really thought it through like that, but those are even more reasons to be skeptical about Euge.

[editorgrrl]

Entertainment Weekly has several theories regarding "Who is that hiding in the woods with Daryl?" For those of you avoiding comic talk, there is some—rehashed from EW's August cover story.

 

Here's one that hadn't occurred to me:

Exec producers Scott M. Gimple and Robert Kirkman have said there will also be new characters this season who are not from the comics. The person Daryl has brought to the church could be one such individual (who also has no such connection to the people who took Beth).

[lulee]

I do think that seems quite possible. It would imply that the Beth storyline is not wrapped up absurdly efficiently. And it would give CDB a possible sense of purpose/ new story arc besides finding Beth and catching up with Eugene the Magic Weapon. If it's someone new, then Carol might be hanging back with that person. And it might also explain Daryl's weary look: they would have failed to find Beth and now they have someone new to deal with/ provide for/ be suspicious of.

[editorgrrl]

You can't quote from locked threads, but Irishmaple speculated that Noah's uncle (whom he came to Atlanta from Richmond, Virginia, to find) is Morgan.

I love this idea—because it'd mean more Lennie James & more Tyler James Williams.

[lulee]

That would be a fun possibility.

So with Carol at the hospital, odds seem good that Noah's the one trailing Daryl. Which implies that Carol and Daryl were able to follow the cross car most of the way and somehow happened upon Noah, made he beth connection and got a debriefing pretty fast. But I'm trying to imagine why Daryl would return to the church without Carol and Beth. To round up the cavalry? I guess. He'd know from Noah that Beth and Carol might be in danger.

No sign of that white van going barreling over the overpass. So I'm guessing that's not next week - must be when we return to Grady which is probably 2 eps from now.

Edited November 3, 2014 by lulee

[ghoulina]

You can't quote from locked threads, but Irishmaple speculated that Noah's uncle (whom he came to Atlanta from Richmond, Virginia, to find) is Morgan.

 

I love this theory as well!

[editorgrrl]

No sign of that white van going barreling over the overpass. So I'm guessing that's not next week - must be when we return to Grady which is probably 2 eps from now.

Next week is Abraham et al. I've still got my fingers crossed that he flips the church bus, then drives the van off the bridge. Glenn's the most expendable cast member from season 1.

Edited to add that Beth could die in the above scenario. Noah escaped, leaving Beth behind—so Team Abraham could rescue Beth but not Carol.

Edited November 3, 2014 by editorgrrl

[JackONeill]

So, again (and I'm looking towards next week's Abraham story), our team is split up in 3 parts, and at least two of those parts in jeopardy.  Hmmmmm!!!!  How many times has this happened?  And why don't they ALL stick together??!??!  But they won't.  Even after this, they won't.  They'll reunite, throw a party, eat some baked beans THEN split up again.  Dolts!!!!

 

Plus, if Daryl has come back for the cavalry, I bet that means someone (Carl, Judith, Tyrese, and someone else) gets left at the church, while Rick and the Killer Team goes to kick some ass and retrieve Beth and Carol.  Then there'll be peril back at the church.

 

Do you see a recurring theme here?

Edited November 3, 2014 by JackONeill

[ghoulina]

I want to discuss what was shown in the special preview we got on TTD, for those who don't watch, I'll put it in spoiler tags:

 

It showed Abraham stomping the hell out of some dude. Was it just me, or did the dude look like he was in a cop uniform? BDUs of some sort? And Abraham was clearly inside of a building. Is it possible he was in the hospital? Maybe somehow the groups meet up and Beth IS reunited with Maggie?

[editorgrrl]

Re: the Talking Dead promo, I've read speculation here that it was a flashback. Someone else said the guy looks like the dead doctor from Beth's episode.

[mandolin]

ghoulina, I actually had the idea 

that it looked like a flashback. Does Abe wear a wedding ring now? He did in the preview. Also, the clothes threw me a bit. Maybe Abe backstory?

 

eta: or ditto editorgrrl ;)

Edited November 3, 2014 by mandolin

[Bruinsfan]

Kirkman recently said on social media that theory is completely wrong.

Did he giggle and clap his hands while saying it? If so, that may mean that the "all a dream" angle is correct, but instead of Rick being in a coma he's dead instead.

[mandolin]

He actually seemed pretty adamant and non-troll-ish...for Kirkman. 

[lulee]

Did he giggle and clap his hands while saying it? If so, that may mean that the "all a dream" angle is correct, but instead of Rick being in a coma he's dead instead.

While I could totally imagine Kirkman with the giggling and hand-clapping, I believe him that TWD is in its own alternative reality, not any character's dream.

Edited November 3, 2014 by lulee

[JackONeill]

My take on it was that Abraham (for whatever reason) was killing a soldier at the beginning of the ZA, from whom he'd take the guy's uniform, thus starting the whole "I'm military and taking Eugene to Washington stuff."  (Why?  Who knows.)

[Am I supposed to put that under some Spoiler hider-thing.  I don't know how to do that.  Aren't we in the Speculation room?]

[Nashville]

So, again (and I'm looking towards next week's Abraham story), our team is split up in 3 parts, and at least two of those parts in jeopardy.  Hmmmmm!!!!  How many times has this happened?  And why don't they ALL stick together??!??!  But they won't.  Even after this, they won't.  They'll reunite, throw a party, eat some baked beans THEN split up again.  Dolts!!!!

 

Abraham has them covered for a can of beans, anyway! :D

FYI - I'm pretty certain the TTD tease was a flashback. I'm also pretty certain something will happen to derail the Short Bus Crew's plans, and keep them within pissing distance of ATL.

[ghoulina]

My take on it was that Abraham (for whatever reason) was killing a soldier at the beginning of the ZA, from whom he'd take the guy's uniform, thus starting the whole "I'm military and taking Eugene to Washington stuff."  (Why?  Who knows.)

[Am I supposed to put that under some Spoiler hider-thing.  I don't know how to do that.  Aren't we in the Speculation room?]

 

I asked before if stuff that was shown/said on TTD was considered spoilery and the mods said yes. Personally, I think as long as it's anything released from the network , that shouldn't constitute a spoiler, but I'm just following the rules. When you're typing, there's all these little icons at the top. The one of a circle w/ the line through it is the spoiler button. You can click on that and it will conceal what you type. 

 

I do appreciate your answers, though, guys. You're probably right!

[kikismom]

So, again (and I'm looking towards next week's Abraham story)

 For a moment I thought you said you're looking forward to next week's Abraham story.

Whew! That's a relief!

[Guest]

I have to wonder if Rick knows Dawn through some crossed case or training course.  We've seen so many bad guys lately that I feel like we are due for one of the baddies to be someone that was known the Rick's group before so they can ask the question 'how did this happen?'

[editorgrrl]

I have to wonder if Rick knows Dawn through some crossed case or training course.

I remember seeing a photo of Dawn in a police uniform. I've read speculation elsewhere that a clean-shaven Rick is also in the photo, but no one has posted a screencap.

Edited November 5, 2014 by editorgrrl

[CarpeDiem54]

Here's what I'd like to see:

The Short Bus Six Stooges fly off a bridge. Everyone is killed except Dr. Mullet, the sine-tist. The Five Stooges turn and chow down on Mullet Boy as he cowers in the bus wimpering.

The Ricktator Brigade shows up on their way to rescue Beth. They put down the Stooge Walkers.

As they approach Atlanta, they see a mushroom cloud. Carol, using a paperclip, some duct tape and an x-ray machine, fashioned a bomb and nuked the hospital. She shows up staggering through the flying debris. Unfortunately, Beth was still in the hospital because she went back for more lollypops.

The Grimey Group all look at each other, shrug and head back to the church for some more baked beans and sacrimental wine.

Or not.

[Trek]

I have to wonder if Rick knows Dawn through some crossed case or training course.  We've seen so many bad guys lately that I feel like we are due for one of the baddies to be someone that was known the Rick's group before so they can ask the question 'how did this happen?'

 

 

I remember seeing a photo of Dawn in a police uniform. I've read speculation elsewhere that a clean-shaven Rick is also in the photo, but no one has posted a screencap.

In the webisodes there was a photo of the King County Sheriff’s department from the ‘before time’ in Rick’s storage. In the photo was some dude presumed to be the sheriff, Shane, Rick and a dark haired female deputy whose identity or significance was never revealed. We know that no female cop was present at the road block in S01E01. Could she have transferred out by that time to, say, the Atlanta PD perhaps? Could it be Dawn?

 

If so the possibilities are endless. From a simple acquaintance requiring only a straight forward “what happened to you?” Boom! To an old flame that transferred out specifically due to a break up with Rick. That’d be something to cue the Twilight Zone music for.

[mandolin]

I remember that from the webisode as I recently rewatched them. Hmm. That would be interesting, but I'm not sure what they might do with it (NOT ROMANTIC PLEASE). Even if it was someone he did know, since she is wandering crazytown now (tm Glenn), I can only imagine it'd end the same way as an unknown. Killing her or leaving her. I don't see our current Rick trying to incorporate her necessarily.

[bosawks]

I have a very odd reason to look forward to some Abraham episodes.

 

I think his name will be awesome when screamed out in:  anger, despair, fear, etc.

 

AAAABBE  RA  HAMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Fade to black.............

 

C'mon show do this one thing for me.

Edited November 7, 2014 by bosawks

[JackONeill]

Maybe we could get William Shatner, off-camera, to shout Abraham's name.  Remember how good he was with Khan, which was just one syllable.  It might take him the full-hour (after commercials) to get all of "Abraham" out in one shout.  Does he have enough breath?

[bosawks]

Maybe we could get William Shatner, off-camera, to shout Abraham's name.  Remember how good he was with Khan, which was just one syllable.  It might take him the full-hour (after commercials) to get all of "Abraham" out in one shout. 

 

God, that'd be like getting a bike on Christmas Day!

[mandolin]

I keep thinking, if Eugene actually is telling the truth (I don't believe him), what real good would it do to kill the walkers? The show has gone to great lengths to tell us that the real bad guys are humans in the collapsed society.

[Guest]

I keep thinking, if Eugene actually is telling the truth (I don't believe him), what real good would it do to kill the walkers? The show has gone to great lengths to tell us that the real bad guys are humans in the collapsed society.

 

It makes a huge difference in that it will speed up the inevitable.  Eventually people will unite and revolt against tyrannical rule.  With zombies as a threat, people are going to put up with more but eventually they will adjust to the new normal and learn how to deal with zombies and become less in need of others to protect them from them at a price.  Rick's group has already gone a long way toward this in being almost casual in taking out zombies.

 

Removing the zombie threat does a couple of things.  It removes the excuse people use to justify their bad deeds.  Dawn probably can't convince herself that her actions are justified after they are saved.  The indentured occupants of hospital aren't going to stick around if there is no zombie threat.  The Governor's people would have likely left overthrown him eventually with no zombies remaining.  Yes, there will still be people so far gone they won't come back (hunter's and Joe's group) but with out zombies, the others are going to eventually take them out.

[mandolin]

I definitely get the idea that people will put up with more because they need protection from zombies. Going forward though, they will also need food, shelter, clothes, and other thangs (I love this board for the common usage of that). Some people won't want to work for those things and I suspect would gladly allow others to provide for them, even if the circumstances are harsher for it. 

 

I guess I feel like, in the small windows of people we see, the crazies and the ones easily swayed outnumber the strong, "good" ones.

 

I am not disagreeing with your ideas at all though!

[Nashville]

I definitely get the idea that people will put up with more because they need protection from zombies. Going forward though, they will also need food, shelter, clothes, and other thangs (I love this board for the common usage of that). Some people won't want to work for those things and I suspect would gladly allow others to provide for them, even if the circumstances are harsher for it. 

 

I guess I feel like, in the small windows of people we see, the crazies and the ones easily swayed outnumber the strong, "good" ones.

 

I am not disagreeing with your ideas at all though!

 

Oh, I'm certain some folks would be willing to give it up in exchange for a dependable supply of food, water, shelter and security.

And I wouldn't fault anybody from utilizing ANY -ah- skill at their disposal to negotiate such an arrangement.

I'd totally be ok with that - but only if the recipients of such an arrangement CHOOSE to be recipients.

Didn't appear to me Beth was given much of a choice at all.  Or Noah.  Or Joan.

[mandolin]

No they weren't, but they were overpowered in their cases. Though I guess Noah did escape after a year. To what remains to be seen I suppose.

And in a post apocalyptic world I think there are always those that are power hungry, like now. Just with fewer checks and balances.

Edited November 8, 2014 by mandolin

[ghoulina]

So.....is Eugene alive or what???

 

Daryl and Carol next week? Bring it on!

[lulee]

So.....is Eugene alive or what???

 

Daryl and Carol next week? Bring it on!

I think Eugene is just somewhat pulverized.

 

I am going to be so tense next week - will someone virtually hold my hands?

[ghoulina]

I will!

[BrokenRemote]

It was cruel of them to show us that preview. (Not sure I can say it since it was onTTD). It's gonna be a long week.

[Constantinople]

At some point Beth and Maggie reunite, perhaps this season or perhaps in a later season.

 

Beth is all excited, but Maggie doesn't recognize Beth.  When told who Beth is, Maggie adamantly insists she does not have, nor ever had, a sister.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Constantinople

[kikismom]

I did notice that the shot of Daryl driving, and Carol in the passenger seat, had more illumination from the dashboard light than half of last night's episode.

Edited November 11, 2014 by kikismom

[Nashville]

I did notice that the shot of Daryl driving, and Carol in the passenger seat, had more illumination from the dashboard light than half of last night's episode.

I did notice that the shot of Daryl driving, and Carol in the passenger seat, had more illumination from the dashboard light than half of last night's episode.

 

Twice as much, it would appear.  :D

[kikismom]

Thanks, I didn't even check that! :-)

[lulee]

OK, anticipating next Sunday's show, what do we know?

• Beth was savenapped from the funeral home.
• Beth is taken to Grady Memorial where lots of bad stuff goes down, some featuring lollipops. She does make a friend Noah who is able to escape.
• About a week later, according to the Walking Dead wiki timeline: the night of the food pantry raid feast Daryl and Carol take off in a car in pursuit of the car with the cross on the rear window.
• From the preview at the end of "Self Help", Daryl and Carol drive, fight walkers, run.
• Carol shows up on a gurney at the hospital (injured? unconscious? faking it?)
• The night after Daryl and Carol drove away from the church, Michonne and Father Gabriel keep watch. Michonne hears a rustling in the trees. She goes out to investigate and sees Daryl emerge. She asks about Carol and Daryl turns back and says, "Come on out."

 

Questions for speculation:

• Do you think Carol was sent in as a Trojan Horse?
• Is Noah with Daryl at the church? Is it only the two them that night?
• Did Daryl go back to deposit Noah and get help?
• How will Beth and Carol escape from the hospital?
• How many Kirkman and Gimple voodoo dolls will I fill with pins and set on fire if Carol dies on Sunday?

 

[editorgrrl]

Do you think Carol was sent in as a Trojan Horse?

Nope. I think Carol was injured and the rapey ambulance drivers thought she was weak. (Perhaps she was with Daryl, and they left him behind just like Noah's dad.)*

They don't know who they're messin' with.

* Edited to add that I only just realized that Noah's dad might still be alive. We've seen Tyreese fight his way out of a pack of walkers. And someone thought they saw Andrea die.

All the wards were unconscious when they were brought in. Do the ambulance drivers hit them over the head?

Edited November 11, 2014 by editorgrrl

[lulee]

Yes, to make them easier to transport and to muddy up the person's memories.

Beth did a surprisingly good job of keeping her info to herself. She seemed like their version of finding her didn't square for her (to the audience) but she didn't object.

[ghoulina]

Who was driving the car that Daryl saw, though? Noah clearly ran right past them, he's on foot. Did the rapey cops really go that far out again, to find more laundry folders? Had they been silently watching Carol for a bit, but sped off when they realized a man was with her?

 

I think if they came across Noah and he told them what goes down there, Carol might just be doing the Trojan horse thing - while Daryl and Noah go back to get the others for re-enforcements. 

[JackONeill]

Look, I know it's a T V show, and we are asked to suspend our disbelief all the time (hmm, people who come back to life to feed on the living), but what are the chances Daryl/Carol would run into Noah?  I admit, that's what I first thought, but what are the odds???  But if it's not Noah that Daryl has, who the hell is it?

 

And why do they (the bad guys) drive around at night?  Aren't the chances of running into a herd greater, if for no other reason that you can't see as well (witness the last show's night-time scenes -- even the audience couldn't see what was going on.)