S01.E06: Landfall

[Joimiaroxeu]

To be fair, I always found DOS very intimidating, as compared with the friendly, clickable icons on Apple products.  I was a kid in the early days of home computing, so maybe it's not a very fair assessment.  But I think there was probably a big chunk of the adult population that found it a bit confusing, too.

I think the difference was like driving a car with a manual transmission versus an automatic. DOS/manual = more direct control over the experience but clicking on icons/automatic shifting = easier and requiring less thought. Pretty much anyone could sit down in front of a desktop computer and figure out how to navigate clever GUI but using DOS required either some prior instruction or written directions which had to be followed to the letter. Some people enjoyed the challenge of DOS but others just wanted the functionality without a lot of keyboarding to get there. The thing is though, there still are some things you can get done quicker with command line input versus clicking on icons.

[Kel Varnsen]

I thought this was the most boring episode yet. So many bad 80's cliches and trying to be a better/more artistic show than it really is. I mean we had Gordon's supposedly deep dream sequence at the beginning, Joe's ridiculous yuppie clothing store closet (has anyone in the real world ever had their clothes laid out like that), the whole thing previously mentioned where Cameron can only get inspiration from having sex, and then of course it is the early 1980's so you have to mention cabbage patch kids. 

 

The only scene I really liked was Cameron's drinking scene with Bosworth since it did seem kind of real. And I did kind of like that Boz got to fire up the computer. And it totally made sense that the team would support him. Most of the old school engineers he probably hired, and for the younger programmers he was the one saying late playing adventure with them. 

 

Speaking of Bosworth as a King of the Hill fan, they really need to find a way to have him say "fity men" for some reason.

 

One thing I didn't understand about the Cardiff computer, and maybe someone who knows about computers can explain it to me, but if they are building an IBM compatible PC, why do they need an operating system at all? Wouldn't it have to run MS-Dos to be compatible with IBM programs? I get that the thing Cameron was designing was something above and beyond, but when they fired up the prototype, they said that the coders designed the OS, and I just wondered why. 

 

I think the scene with Donna and her boss is going to come back to bite her in the ass. She basically told him she had a hand in designing the Cardiff PC. And I totally wouldn't be surprised if her contract with Texas Instruments has some kind of clause where any computer equipment she designs automatically becomes their property or at very least it is the kind of thing where doing work for another company is a fireable offense. I can predict it now, on the business trip, boss is going to hit on her, she is going to turn him down, and then when they get back he is either going to stir up trouble with Cardiff or fire her because she helped her husband.

 

That said, like others I kind of wouldn't have a problem if she didn't turn him down. I mean they still haven't given me one bit of story to explain what Donna sees in Gordon (since Gordon is a major jerkass). Although the part at the dinner where she knew exactly where he was, and that he didn't have a Cabbage Patch was hilarious.

[ABay]

When they turned the computer on, I was so hoping it would say "Greetings, Professor Falken. Would you like to play a game?"

I'm pretty sure War Games came out around the time the series is set.

[Hanahope]

I think the scene with Donna and her boss is going to come back to bite her in the ass. She basically told him she had a hand in designing the Cardiff PC. And I totally wouldn't be surprised if her contract with Texas Instruments has some kind of clause where any computer equipment she designs automatically becomes their property or at very least it is the kind of thing where doing work for another company is a fireable offense.

 

I was thinking the same thing and wondering whether tech companies had that type of clause in a contract back then.  Was Donna even hired by contract, as opposed to just being an 'at-will' employee?  She certainly wasn't getting paid all that much money.

 

I remember that run on Cabbage Patch kids and being glad that I was a bit too old for them.

 

I also didn't get the bit with the lightning and the dead pedestrian.  First off, I didn't understand why Gordon even looked around the block.  Sure he heard a crack, but considering what he just did, you'd think he'd just hightail it out of there.  Then even with looking, what was he supposed to do? The person was clearly dead, it certainly wasn't Gordon's fault, why the angst?

[Kel Varnsen]

I was thinking the same thing and wondering whether tech companies had that type of clause in a contract back then.  Was Donna even hired by contract, as opposed to just being an 'at-will' employee?  She certainly wasn't getting paid all that much money.

No contract might be just as bad though. I mean if (or more likely when) she turns down her boss's sexual advances he can fire her and just say it was for cause because she was doing work for a competitor (not because she refused to have sex with him). I mean I don't think sexual harassment, as we know it today was really a thing back then.

 

Then even with looking, what was he supposed to do? The person was clearly dead, it certainly wasn't Gordon's fault, why the angst?

 

The person was dead, but the power lines were still sparking meaning they were still live. You are right he can't do anything for that person, but calling for help/fire department or whoever could at least make sure no one else gets hurt from the downed power lines. That said I wonder if in a future episode it will be revealed that the person was a worker in the toy store who stayed late because some guy called and said he was coming to buy a cabbage patch kid.

[annlaw78]

 

I was thinking the same thing and wondering whether tech companies had that type of clause in a contract back then.  Was Donna even hired by contract, as opposed to just being an 'at-will' employee?  She certainly wasn't getting paid all that much money.

I was thinking more along the lines of TI rushing to get a patent on that concept/idea, and poaching it from Cardiff.  I'm not sure, though, that you can really patent something as broad as as dual-layer motherboard.  Or whatever it is. 

[scowl]

She's 30 years ahead. With search engines and the Internet, she described Siri.

 

She didn't describe a search engine. She was describing a command line replacement for DOS that would automatically adapt to the user. So instead of seeing the impersonal "C:" prompt and typing "WORDSTAR", the user would see a loving, caring conversational computer saying things like:

 

GOOD MORNING,   CAMERON   ! DO YOU WISH TO RUN   WORDSTAR  NOW (Y/N)? Y

 

VERY WELL,   CAMERON  . I"LL RUN   WORDSTAR   .

YOUR HAIR LOOKS TERRIFIC TODAY,   CAMERON  .

[Hanahope]

Like its all that harder to just type "Wordstar" at a C: prompt rather than in response to a question of 'what would you like to do?'

 

And I love how Joe got on board because Donna and Gordon's girls named their flashlights.  Like who does that?  My girls name their dolls or their stuffed animals, but they certainly didn't name their ipad or nintendo DS.

 

I didn't think about the live wire.  But couldn't Gordon have found a pay phone, called 911 (or 0 for operator), said, 'downed electrical line at ___ street, and then just left the phone hanging and took off?  Its not like he had a cell phone that they could trace a phone number back to him.

[scowl]

One thing I didn't understand about the Cardiff computer, and maybe someone who knows about computers can explain it to me, but if they are building an IBM compatible PC, why do they need an operating system at all? Wouldn't it have to run MS-Dos to be compatible with IBM programs?

 

The show has done a terrible job of explaining this. Yes, it seems that they are mostly done building an MS-DOS compatible machine. It makes sense that they might have to write drivers specific to the hardware they designed but the army of software developers just showed up with no purpose for them. Some have speculated that they're going to develop some value-added applications to include with their computer, i.e. the disks that came with the computer which you wiped out so you could put something useful on them.

 

And Cameron becoming a project lead after a few weeks in her first job? Even the most clueless geek would know she screwed her way into that promotion. Her personalized command line replacement would be asking me "WOULD YOU LIKE TO WORK ON YOUR   RESUMÉ   SOME MORE TODAY,  scowl?"

[annlaw78]

 

Like its all that harder to just type "Wordstar" at a C: prompt rather than in response to a question of 'what would you like to do?'

You have to know that the C: prompt is essentially asking "what would you like to do?", and for many computing neophytes, that was a foreign language.  I still today know nothing about C: prompts or DOS, because I grew up in an Apple-house, going to Apple-schools.  It's not THAT hard to learn, but it's a barrier for entry into the market for some.  And, for techies, the idea of a personalized, "learning" OS could be cool, I guess.  I'd rather just have my handy little icons. 

Edited July 9, 2014 by annlaw78

[ganesh]

I still mildly like this show.

 

It's an interesting summer show. It's certainly better than some of the others I'm watching. As horrible as Joe is, I liked how he actually listened to Donna in their conversation about the computer, and similarly with Cameron here and in the last episode.

 

If you give me characters that aren't acting like people wouldn't act because plot I'm willing to cut a lot of slack.

 

I was really surprised Gordon stole the dolls. From what I remember, my cousins had them, the whole deal was getting the card about each one's backstory and all that. 

 

 

It was interesting to see that at first, he was nasty with Gordon's kids, and then seemed to warm up to idea of entertaining them.

He seemed very interested that the kids named the flashlights. I don't know if it was the actor or in the script, but that was interesting to me.

 

Like its all that harder to just type "Wordstar" at a C: prompt rather than in response to a question of 'what would you like to do?'

 

I'm running a fortran exe on my windows machine, so you have to use the command prompt like on the show. You have to know where the program is located in the folders and then know how to "go there" then execute the program. You could alternatively set the environmental variables so you can just type 'wordstar', but if you're trying to market to the masses, people aren't going to know that. You want it to be easy to use. I think the show was playing fair. I don't think Cameron's idea will work because the computing power/internet doesn't exist but it's a good idea. 

Edited July 9, 2014 by ganesh

[annlaw78]

 

I was really surprised Gordon stole the dolls. From what I remember, my cousins had them, the whole deal was getting the card about each one's backstory and all that.

The Birth Certificate!  I totally forgot about that!  But, yes, that was the cool part, finding out what the doll's birthday was, and what stupid name it had -- they really grasped at straws (one of mine's first name was "Barlow").  If I recall correctly, gender wasn't really readily apparent (or at least to my grandparents who bought these for me), and I kept getting boy dolls, yuck. 

Edited July 9, 2014 by annlaw78

[scowl]

You have to know that the C: prompt is essentially asking "what would you like to do?", and for many computing neophytes, that was a foreign language. 

 

Very few regular MS-DOS users cared about the C: prompt. Most people either immediately ran the one or two applications they needed for their jobs which was just typing the name of it. The C: prompt was seen even less when "task switching" DOS products like Desq and Topview became popular. Then the only thing you had to see were your applications. Task switching is an example of something that was extremely useful to computer users and is something that Cameron would never think of.

 

I can't tell if the show is telling us that she is ignorant of what the average person wanted at that time or whether the writers themselves are ignorant of it. The show has regularly failed to show any technical credibility. 

[Kel Varnsen]

And Cameron becoming a project lead after a few weeks in her first job? Even the most clueless geek would know she screwed her way into that promotion. Her personalized command line replacement would be asking me "WOULD YOU LIKE TO WORK ON YOUR   RESUMÉ   SOME MORE TODAY,  scowl?"

Even without the screwing the fact that she told her team to work on something, and then totally bailed on them and wasn't there to back them up when a manager from a different department told them to work on something else is not really a great way to gain loyalty from your employees.

[scout1207]

 

She didn't describe a search engine. She was describing a command line replacement for DOS that would automatically adapt to the user. So instead of seeing the impersonal "C:" prompt and typing "WORDSTAR", the user would see a loving, caring conversational computer saying things like:

GOOD MORNING,   CAMERON   ! DO YOU WISH TO RUN   WORDSTAR  NOW (Y/N)? Y

VERY WELL,   CAMERON  . I"LL RUN   WORDSTAR   .

YOUR HAIR LOOKS TERRIFIC TODAY,   CAMERON  .

 

 

HAH! That's great.  Cameron is looking to put a "soulllll now" (TM Buffy) in the computer. The whole episode dealt with her getting some genuine human interaction with Joe. And I think she mentioned bonding with inanimate objects - naming stuffed animals, the girls naming their flashlights. She's not designing this for the computer programmer, she is designing this for the average person to make them want to use the computer. To draw them in and find that emotional link, that security in the storm. Joe realized it with the girls and the flashlights, which was part of the dramatics in the hurricane. The girls equated those named flashlights as yeah, lightsabers against the darkness.   Yes you can type commands at the DOS prompt. But that's cold and impersonal.  I remember Eliza, this isn't that far-fetched. This text-based psychological interface allegedly had a significant number of users going through her therapy sessions answering her open-ended questions.

People name things. It's just human nature - boats, ships, cars, swords (Ice, Longclaw, Needle) Technically we assign names to home networking computers now to distinguish them in our household.

 

Cameron's on the right track, it's just the timing is awful.

Edited July 9, 2014 by scout1207

[Kel Varnsen]

 She's not designing this for the computer programmer, she is designing this for the average person to make them want to use the computer. To draw them in and find that emotional link, that security in the storm. 

Except this goes back to what I have said in previous episode threads, what kind of computer are they making. If they are making a computer that is for someone who has never used a computer before, then why the hell does it need to be portable. Now I can see someone who uses a computer for business, or a computer programmer maybe wanting something they can take on business trips. But would the person Cameron described, who has never used a computer (who would likely be playing games and doing word processing, need to have a computer they can take on a plane? And would they be willing to pay any kind of premium for it?

[dubbel zout]

I'm pretty sure War Games came out around the time the series is set.

 

The show is set in 1983 (according to the AMC official site), and that's when the movie came out. So it all depends on the timing.

 

I think the scene with Donna and her boss is going to come back to bite her in the ass.

 

I think just having lunch with her boss is going to bite her in the ass; there was a quick shot where Donna looked out of his office and saw some colleagues looking at her. She then seemed to change her body language a bit to make things look more casual.

Edited July 9, 2014 by dubbel zout

[Dowel Jones]

 

What was the significance of that dead lady Gordon found?

To add to what others have said, I got the feeling that Gordon was debating whether to stay and help, and thus be implicated in the burglary of the toy store, or beat feet and leave the pedestrian to fate.  He didn't positively know she was dead, but she sure looked like it.  I think it was meant to show Gordon going down the rabbit hole a little bit more each week.

[Kel Varnsen]

To add to what others have said, I got the feeling that Gordon was debating whether to stay and help, and thus be implicated in the burglary of the toy store, or beat feet and leave the pedestrian to fate.  He didn't positively know she was dead, but she sure looked like it.  I think it was meant to show Gordon going down the rabbit hole a little bit more each week.

Plus as someone else has mentioned there seems to be something getting killed every week (the armadillo on Joe's car, the bird in Gordon's yard, the livestock on the boss's ranch and now a person. Would the next step up be death of a main character?

[scout1207]

 

But would the person Cameron described, who has never used a computer (who would likely be playing games and doing word processing, need to have a computer they can take on a plane? And would they be willing to pay any kind of premium for it?

 

I agree the marketing seems very scattered. It seems like Joe is doing a "throw everything in it" scenario, with a "build it and they will come" outlook.  If it's supposed to be half the cost of what PCs cost at that time, I'm guessing he's going for mass market. He's talking with retailers about shelf positions.   But, did anyone in 1983 think that people other than first responders and government officials needed mobile communications? If someone asked a average Joe/Jane on the street in 1983 if they would be willing to pay/subsidize  $200 - $700 for a cell phone, I think they would have looked sideways and edged away slowly. 

 

Sometimes companies go by the idea that the average consumer doesn't know what they need until it's shoved in front of them. If dad/mom brings home a portable computer and can work at home that's productivity. If the kids play with it, with the right software, it can be educational and go with them on vacation. Then kids go to college and take a new, faster version with them.

 

One glaring issue though is that the internet is basically a fetus right now so any consumer benefits would be limited to shelf software.

 

I'm playing devil's advocate and thinking way too much about a show that may not be back.

Edited July 10, 2014 by scout1207

[Hanahope]

Well, back in 1983 for me, a portable computer (at least portable to my college dorm room) would have been very useful for writing papers.  My father did something (I don't know what) on his Xerox computer and my mom typed up school papers (she was a teacher) on her Mac.  And there were a few games to play too.

[paramitch]

Great posts on the technical myths vs. realities, Scowl, ganesh and annlaw78.

 

One thing HACF is getting right, for me, is the question of how to position a PC and its brand back in this time of its infancy (and it's the thing that makes me most nostalgic as I was in college during this period, and working in tech/computing for several years during and after). The show does show the conundrum well -- the idea is great -- everyone should have a computer! -- but the fact is that especially back then, they were confusing to navigate, very un-user-friendly, and one wrong command could lead to total catastrophe for a neophyte.

 

So I like that the show is capturing the core conflict of branding -- that people creating/selling computers wanted them to be seen as appliances, as ubiquitous, but that there was this significant hurdle that they simply weren't button-push appliances, they weren't all that accessible, and they did require some pretty decent learning and training even to do basic things. A more accessible OS was the difference between widespread success and failure, and Bill Gates, for instance, capitalized on that and changed everything. (The Mac was always easier and friendlier but it was also badly priced and marketed for years).

 

So Cameron's obsession with the OS makes sense here, and I really like that she's addressing this because it brings up topics that are very relevant today with the continued move toward more 'human-seeming' AI with Siri, movies like "Her," etc. (Cameron's dream OS reminded me very much of 'Edgar,' the fake OS in the 80s movie "Electric Dreams" -- anyone remember that one? I loved it back in the day...)

 

I'm glad Gordon's creep factor is out in the open now, since he's totally given me the willies ever since he searched Cameron's stuff. There's something imbalanced about him and I won't be surprised if he ends up dangerous. It's like each week, he crosses another subtle line.

 

Meanwhile, I think Lee Pace is just a ridiculously gorgeous human being, and I'm happy for this show simply to gaze at him for an hour each week. It's interesting to see him play such a dark character after his adorable turn as the sweet pie-maker on "Pushing Daisies," and I do think Pace pulls it off successfully and that he must be having a blast. He has a lot of charisma, and it's fun to see him navigate Joe's little narcissistic moments as well as his more likable ones. I was glad to see him humanized a bit this week with both Cameron, as well as with Donna and the kids.

 

Overall, I still like the show, but there's something very awkward about the writing to me. There are so many scenes that feel like 'telling vs. showing' and I thought the scene in the yard with the flashlights was clumsily staged and just too much. The show continues to extend scenes to points I find just very clunky and awkward as if it doesn't trust us to get the obvious subtext -- for instance, Joe swinging the bat in spite of his injuries, Joe sledgehammering the car last week, and now this week, with Joe defying the heavens themselves. It's just too heavyhanded for me.

 

However, I do find myself liking Joe and Cameron more each week, adore Donna, and I'm intrigued by where we're going by the end of this season. I'm sort of sensing a big swerve coming, where the show is a kind of alternative timeline offering a different potential future.

[renatae]

Didn't he actually say he was hospitalized for two years?

 

Anyone know if that strained credulity or not?

 

I may be seeing this one through 2014 eyes, where they basically kick you out after 2 days unless you're in a coma. 

 

I reran it and you're right, he did say two years. That does strain credulity because even serious burn victims needing grafting generally spent about a year or so at that point in time. And for grafting, you're generally in and out because you have to wait for grafts to reach a certain point in healing before doing more.

[dubbel zout]

I didn't take it that Joe was literally in the hospital for two years, but that he was in and out for two years. He was shorthanding how long the entire thing took to fully heal.

[ganesh]

I actually did like the conversation between Cameron and the boss when he offered her a drink. He treated her like an actual employee who was important to the project.

 

One thing HACF is getting right, for me, is the question of how to position a PC and its brand back in this time of its infancy (and it's the thing that makes me most nostalgic as I was in college during this period, and working in tech/computing for several years during and after).

 

No show in the history of shows past and future is ever going to get the technical details about computers correct. They won't do it because it's too hard and no one wants to jumble out a bunch of techno babble. It's about that, positioning the PC and making it accessible to the masses. That's why they don't know how to market it or what machine Joe really wants. It's a cheat but it's a fair one. Questions like 'what type of person did it take to think that they could clone the IBM for regular people?' are what's more interesting. The show's been getting better. Usually a show gets to its stride by E5, I think it took to E6 here. 

[scowl]

No show in the history of shows past and future is ever going to get the technical details about computers correct. They won't do it because it's too hard and no one wants to jumble out a bunch of techno babble.

 

The cable movie "The Pirates of Silicon Valley" (with Anthony Michael Hall as Bill Gates!) did a very accurate job of dramatizing the technical details involved in the battle between Microsoft and Apple. Yes, it can be done.

 

I don't see why they need to make up techno babble when real techno babble would be just as effective. Simply substitute the inaccurate words with accurate words. What's hard about that?

Well, back in 1983 for me, a portable computer (at least portable to my college dorm room) would have been very useful for writing papers. 

 

There was one. It was sold by Radio Shack and was called the Model 100. It didn't have a high resolution screen but I used the built-in text editor for writing papers all through college. I printed them on a typewriter which had a parallel printer input. There were word processing applications you could buy if you needed page numbers and footnotes and real word processing functions.

 

The Model 100 was one of my favorite computers. I used it to take notes in classes before most people had ever touched a computer.

Edited July 10, 2014 by scowl

[ganesh]

That misses the point. The technobabble should be minimized or eliminated as much as possible. Beyond, 'the BIOS is what makes the computer work and the drivers will allow us to run programs on the computer,' I'm doubtful 90%+ of the viewership is particularly concerned. I don't think that's what the show is about anyway. It's a forest for the trees situation. Any tv show is typically half assed in some area. If these people were actual experts in something they'd be doing real work and not playing pretend for our entertainment.

 

It's possible they didn't have the budget for a technical consultant over the course of the season, whereas for a tv movie, it's more likely. 

[kieyra]

I also have to make a devil's advocate argument:

 

Silicon Valley (the recent HBO comedy) managed to make technobabble do the following:

 

1) Not annoy technical people

2) Not annoy non-technical people

3) Make both camps laugh

[ganesh]

Ok, exception that proves the rule then. How many shows out of all the shows actually get the technobabble right though? It's practically negligible. It could be a budget issue being on cable v HBO, or HBO demands a higher technical standard. I just don't think TPTBs here give a shit. It hasn't been that accurate and I don't see it improving. It's not taking me out of the show. Could it be easily improved. Probably. Is it taking away from the story they want to tell? For TPTBs, I don't think so. 

[Kel Varnsen]

Ok, exception that proves the rule then. How many shows out of all the shows actually get the technobabble right though? It's practically negligible. It could be a budget issue being on cable v HBO, or HBO demands a higher technical standard. I just don't think TPTBs here give a shit. It hasn't been that accurate and I don't see it improving. It's not taking me out of the show. Could it be easily improved. Probably. Is it taking away from the story they want to tell? For TPTBs, I don't think so. 

For me it is not so much the hardcore techno stuff that is confusing me (because I would have no idea if it is right) it is the basic logic stuff that is bugging me. I mean are they building a straight competitor for the IBM PC that is half the price and twice as fast? Or are they building something portable (and if so will it still be half the cost of the IBM-PC)? And if they are building an IBM PC clone why do they need their own operating system?

[Watcher0363]

And I love how Joe got on board because Donna and Gordon's girls named their flashlights.  Like who does that?  My girls name their dolls or their stuffed animals, but they certainly didn't name their ipad or nintendo DS.

 

Well if you were a guy and was given a device capable of chasing away storms, lightning in particular. You would name that weapon or device. Let's face it with parents like Gordon and Donna. One these girls will grow up to write chick sci-fi hopefully not bad chick sci-fi.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Watcher0363

[kieyra]

I think what it comes down to is that something about the way they're implementing their technobabble is resulting in an inordinate amount of the discussion tending towards picking that part of the show apart. So one way or another, they're doing it wrong. And even though I'm a tech person, I'd still much rather make fun of the ridiculous writing/characterization than quibble about 256K RAM. They have to either get it (mostly) right or they have to back-burner it more adeptly, and they're not doing either one. 

Edited July 10, 2014 by kieyra

[Hanahope]

Well if you were a guy and was given a device capable of chasing away storms lightning in particular. You would name that weapon or device.

 

 

People name things. It's just human nature - boats, ships, cars, swords

 

 

Oh, you mean like all other phallic symbols?  :)

[scowl]

That misses the point. The technobabble should be minimized or eliminated as much as possible. Beyond, 'the BIOS is what makes the computer work and the drivers will allow us to run programs on the computer,' I'm doubtful 90%+ of the viewership is particularly concerned.

 

So if Cameron develops a Mac with a mouse and a full graphical user interface in the next episode, you'll have no complaints?

 

Breaking Bad was not only able to get the boring chemistry of meth production mostly correct, but in some cases they purposely changed it because it was too accurate. It's really not that hard or expensive to get small details in dialog correct for everyone.

 

Also these episodes are being co-written by the series' creators so if they can't get half the details right then they shouldn't have created a show based on something they don't know much about. This is the network that brought us Mad Men. 

[kieyra]

 

Also these episodes are being co-written by the series' creators so if they can't get half the details right then they shouldn't have created a show based on something they don't know much about.

 

This right here, I think. It doesn't feel like it's being written by anyone who has any real passion for the tech (or the industry or the time or the place). Did this start out as someone else's project?

[paramitch]

I agree that the annoying thing with the inaccurate technobabble is that the information is so accessible. There's no reason to get it wrong. And if they simply got it right, if written well, it would simply move into the background and we could concentrate on the plot and character stuff.

 

The techspeak doesn't have to be front and center (and in fact, the attempts to put it there often come across as heavyhanded). But if everything they did and said here was accurate and simply present as background, texture and detail (and worldbuilding), the show would be far less frustrating.

 

But I'm increasingly enjoying the characters and more than anything, I want to see where the heck this is going to go. The fact that I don't know yet could be frustrating but it's really intriguing me anyway.

[88Keys]

I agree that the annoying thing with the inaccurate technobabble is that the information is so accessible. There's no reason to get it wrong. And if they simply got it right, if written well, it would simply move into the background and we could concentrate on the plot and character stuff.

 

 

I actually wish the show had a little more techo-speak. I wanted to learn more about what this business was like in that time period, and what went into building a computer back then. As it is, it kind of feels like the writers don't really know anything about computers.  And like someone else said, they don't seem to have much knowledge or passion for the subject.

 

Speaking of Bosworth as a King of the Hill fan, they really need to find a way to have him say "fity men" for some reason.

 

 

I'm waiting to hear "Kiss my ass!" in his Kahn voice.  :)

[Yolapukka]

 

I think what it comes down to is that something about the way they're implementing their technobabble is resulting in an inordinate amount of the discussion tending towards picking that part of the show apart.

 

 

Speaking as someone who has only a superficial grasp of the techno-babble, it's not going to take me out of it when it's used with a less than precise grasp of how the terminology would have been used in the time period, though of course accuracy would be ideal. However I would be hugely taken out of the narrative if there was no techno-babble in evidence or the characters constantly talked around it. Having a character make explanations for the sake of the audience can be dull, other times it works, like when Cameron tried to explain to Debbie what the Bios signified and Debbie told her where to get office-appropriate clothing.  I honestly don't care if I comprehend everything each character says or if my understanding of what sort of computer is being planned has to evolve with new information, I do however care that what each character says is reasonably in keeping with who that character is supposed to be as well as giving us a narrative build and I'm satisfied with that aspect of it. 

[green]

Great posts on the technical myths vs. realities, Scowl, ganesh and annlaw78.

 

One thing HACF is getting right, for me, is the question of how to position a PC and its brand back in this time of its infancy (and it's the thing that makes me most nostalgic as I was in college during this period, and working in tech/computing for several years during and after). The show does show the conundrum well -- the idea is great -- everyone should have a computer! -- but the fact is that especially back then, they were confusing to navigate, very un-user-friendly, and one wrong command could lead to total catastrophe for a neophyte.

 

So I like that the show is capturing the core conflict of branding -- that people creating/selling computers wanted them to be seen as appliances, as ubiquitous, but that there was this significant hurdle that they simply weren't button-push appliances, they weren't all that accessible, and they did require some pretty decent learning and training even to do basic things. A more accessible OS was the difference between widespread success and failure, and Bill Gates, for instance, capitalized on that and changed everything. (The Mac was always easier and friendlier but it was also badly priced and marketed for years).

 

So Cameron's obsession with the OS makes sense here, and I really like that she's addressing this because it brings up topics that are very relevant today  ...

 

Just wanted to say I totally agree 100% here.  The inability of the techie crowd back then to see that 99% of people did NOT want to stare at a C prompt in holy terror was one of the biggest if not the biggest mistake of those early days.  They should have been clued in by the fact that about the same 99% of people still had the 12:00 flashing on their VCRs.

 

I think the engineering crowd kind of secretly liked the fact everyone else couldn't use their machines.  They liked to go around saying stuff like, "It really is so easy anyone should know how to use it" which translated into a self-aware put down of everyone else.  It was their external validation in life that they knew their way around a C prompt.  But no one else was impressed by their techie version of superiority.  They just showed themselves clueless and tone deaf to what a PC was about.  It took Windows and the internet to save the PC from itself.

[Watcher0363]

It took Windows and internet "PORN" to save the PC from itself.

[ganesh]

I think the engineering crowd kind of secretly liked the fact everyone else couldn't use their machines.

 

Oh no doubt. Now with so much moving to open source *everyone* is learning to code and you don't need a fancy machine or know how to compile. It's a huge leap in accessibility and scientific computing. I'm getting first year engineering students already on github and coding for their labs like a breeze.

[annlaw78]

 

They should have been clued in by the fact that about the same 99% of people still had the 12:00 flashing on their VCRs.

Ha!  Given my icon-loving, C-prompt abhorring posts, above, it should come as no surprise that the clocks on my microwave and oven read ":" and "6:14," respectively (and it's 2:28 currently).

[amarante]

I would suspect almost any show dealing with a profession or actual expertise is not going to be 100% satisfactory to those in the industry. Doctors, lawyers, firemen, cops, spies - we are all going to see through the the inaccuracies.

 

As a lay person who has more knowledge of the computer industry than the average lay person (I worked in a software company in a professional but non-engineering capacity), I'm fine with what they are attempting to do as I am not taking it quite so literally but more as a fairly accurate view of the dichotomy between the brand managers, the dreamers, the marketing, the engineers and how the hell the product ever comes to fruition. Not to mention attempting to get some kind of storyline appended to it.

 

As a layperson I completely get Cameron's vision of a "computer" that one falls in love with because of the way one interacts with it. The whole Bob bit admittedly was way corny - I also remember Word or Office had some ridiculous dog or paper clip for awhile to attempt to humanize the interface.

 

I was given access to a "portable" computer at work in 1990 - it was about as portable as the cell phone my boss had in 1985. It ran on DOS which I, as a lay person, had no ability or desire to master. I drafted long documents on the computer but only with the help of my assistant who I had to call in periodically to perform what we called his DOS Voodoo. 

 

Luckily I was introduced to the Mac computer operating system at HBO in 1992 and it was instant love in the way Cameron was describing. It wasn't that it had a cute interface - it was that it enabled me to do things without the computer getting in the way and my non-engineering brain just "got" the way the system was supposed to work. 

 

And yeah, I remember when RAM was so expensive that I actually had an extension called Ram Doubler - and then Ram Tripler. I think my first Apple at home had 8 mgs of Ram and 160 mb of hard drive.

Edited July 12, 2014 by amarante

[AmandaPanda]

This also seems like a good spot for me to mention that I'm annoyed by the fact that Cameron's muse for coding is penis. This character is obviously fully conceived and implemented by a guy.

 

Definitely agree. From what I can tell, there are only two women on the writing staff: Jamie Pachino and Dahvi Waller. 

 

Ha!  I think Lee Pace is a good-looking dude, so I have no complaints about lack of eye candy.  His hair is so perfectly 80s -- it's like he's walked out of a vintage cologne ad, with all the short layers and product.  I wonder if he really is that much taller than all the other actors, or if they have him in lifts or standing on something.  Because I know he's tall, but neither of the actors who play Gordon or Boz even come up to his shoulders. 

 

Lee Pace isn't that much taller than Gordon or Boz. Pace is 6'3". Boz is 6' and Gordon is 5'10". I think a lot of it is in the camera angles they use.

 

No contract might be just as bad though. I mean if (or more likely when) she turns down her boss's sexual advances he can fire her and just say it was for cause because she was doing work for a competitor (not because she refused to have sex with him). I mean I don't think sexual harassment, as we know it today was really a thing back then.

 

There definitely weren't sexual harassment policies then. The Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill case wasn't until the early 1990s and that was the first that a lot of people knew about sexual harassment. There would have been nothing in place to protect Donna.

[annlaw78]

 

Lee Pace isn't that much taller than Gordon or Boz. Pace is 6'3". Boz is 6' and Gordon is 5'10". I think a lot of it is in the camera angles they use.

What?  Really?  Boz and Gordon are both shorter than Cameron, aren't they?  And MacKenzie Davis is not 6'! 

 

ETA:  Here's a cast line-up photo.  Toby Huss is the shortest of the cast, though to be fair, Kerry Bishe is probably in heels.

Edited July 23, 2014 by annlaw78

[RadiantAerynSun]

I can see Cameron's point for sure... I remember as a little girl being just tickled to death that when my computer was booting up, before the DOS prompt, it would say "Good Morning! [ or Afternoon or Evening depending on time of day]"

 

I was absolutely flabbergasted that it could tell what the appropriate greeting was. ;)