Wonder Woman 1984 (2020)

[Racj82]

9 hours ago, ChitChat said:

Yeah, we're not comfortable going to the theater just yet, and we don't have HBO, so we went ahead and paid the $20.  It would've cost more than that if we had seen it at the theater with snacks and all!!  We've been out of the loop for awhile (stuff going on), so I wasn't aware of any of the reviews of the movie.  How disappointing it was.  I expected much better.  

Yeah. So much potential.

Warner Brothers went ahead and will allow their movies to be available to everyone who has a hbo max account for a month in 2021. Then, after 30 days it goes to a home release. Hbo max is 15 dollars a month, you stream it just like any other service and you can drop it in a month. Saves you 5 dollars there. 

It's funny, I don't think universally, any movie they've released for the theater at home 20 dollar thing has been worth the price tag. I could see Wonder Woman seeming like it would be a safe bet but to me it ended up being poor just like the rest.

[Chit Chat]

29 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Warner Brothers went ahead and will allow their movies to be available to everyone who has a hbo max account for a month in 2021. Then, after 30 days it goes to a home release. Hbo max is 15 dollars a month, you stream it just like any other service and you can drop it in a month. Saves you 5 dollars there. 

Thanks for the info!  We had to be out-of-state for awhile, and December-January is kind of a blur to us!  I was not aware of how bad the reviews for Wonder Woman were.  Oh well.  Live and learn!  I'll look into HBO Max! 

[MarkHB]

I don't know about the others, but HBO Max is also making a point of leveraging the Warner Bros. film catalog, as well as the pre-1984 MGM catalog they got when they bought Turner.  Casablanca and Citizen Kane are both on there, and this month they're adding the full slate of Rocky movies, from the original Best Picture winner up through Rocky Balboa.  So if you like older movies it's worth looking into.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SAG Award win!

Outstanding Action Performance by a Stunt Ensemble in a Motion Picture

[MarkHB]

The Acting awards give trophies to stunt performers but the Academy still does not....

 

Still, great win!

[Simon Boccanegra]

I kept thinking that the problematic sex that's the focus of most of the conversation was just the tip of the iceberg. I'm sure I'm not the first to point it out, but the body of poor dozing "Handsome Man" was constantly in danger. She's taking him along for a chase through Cairo with armed goons and tanks, she's letting him steal a plane that could be shot down, he's getting thrown all over the White House by the Cheetah...Steve's consciousness may be all-in for this, but the dude hosting him didn't sign up for any of it! 

That said, while I didn't think this was one of those rare sequels that equal or surpass the original, I enjoyed it. A likable, hard-working cast and a certain generosity of spirit carried it along. It's one of those movies I'm not of a mind to fight and die for; if someone says "Wonder Woman 1984 sucked! I want my two and a half hours back," I can understand the disappointment and just shrug it off. But for me, it passed the watch-checking test -- meaning I wasn't doing it much. It was fun to look at and had a basically sound message in keeping with my understanding of the main character and what she stands for. I liked the idea that Lord and the Cheetah were not really evil people; they were just corrupted more and more as they tried to grab onto their dreams, and this worked especially well in a "greed decade" story. I'll see a third entry in the series.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Costume Designers Guild Award nomination!

Excellence in Sci-Fi / Fantasy Film
Dolittle – Jenny Beavan
Jingle Jangle: A Christmas Journey – Michael Wilkinson
Mulan – Bina Daigeler
Pinocchio – Massimo Cantini Parrini
Wonder Woman 1984 – Lindy Hemming

[Trini]

The HISHE treatment:

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Now it looks like Patty Jenkins is upset about WW84 being released in theatres and at home at the same time. To which I can say fuck off. How many millions of people died during this stupid pandemic and you are "heartbroken" that some people watched you kind of midlevel super hero movie in the safety of their own home. Even if this was some kind of amazing society changing piece of cinema that was her life's work it still seems like a stupid, out of touch comment to make. Especially since she got paid extra for it being released on streaming.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Now it looks like Patty Jenkins is upset about WW84 being released in theatres and at home at the same time. To which I can say fuck off. How many millions of people died during this stupid pandemic and you are "heartbroken" that some people watched you kind of midlevel super hero movie in the safety of their own home. Even if this was some kind of amazing society changing piece of cinema that was her life's work it still seems like a stupid, out of touch comment to make. Especially since she got paid extra for it being released on streaming.

I really hate the argument that people aren’t allowed to be really upset over something because other people are experiencing much worse. She also said that, “It was the best choice in a bunch of bad choices at the moment” so she’s not saying it should have been handled differently. I can’t blame her for  seeing something she worked very hard on clearly not getting the chance to shine because of circumstances beyond anyone’s control. 

I am heartbroken that Shang-Chi isn’t going to have the chance to break records despite stellar reviews because of COVID. That doesn’t mean I don’t care about people dying or realize that lives are more important. It does mean that every female and BIPOC led movie is high stakes because the entertainment industry is a racist and sexist industry. 

[Kel Varnsen]

45 minutes ago, Dani said:

I really hate the argument that people aren’t allowed to be really upset over something because other people are experiencing much worse. She also said that, “It was the best choice in a bunch of bad choices at the moment” so she’s not saying it should have been handled differently. I can’t blame her for  seeing something she worked very hard on clearly not getting the chance to shine because of circumstances beyond anyone’s control. 

People can be upset over whatever they want, and if she had just said the part about how it was the best available option I would have agreed. But to state in public that you are "heartbroken" that the big budget movie that you were paid very well for didn't have the best possible release plan makes it sound like you are out of touch with regular people to a ridiculous degree. It would be like if she said she was heartbroken that the pandemic has lead to a decrease in the availability of good quality caviar.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

People can be upset over whatever they want, and if she had just said the part about how it was the best available option I would have agreed. But to state in public that you are "heartbroken" that the big budget movie that you were paid very well for didn't have the best possible release plan makes it sound like you are out of touch with regular people to a ridiculous degree. It would be like if she said she was heartbroken that the pandemic has lead to a decrease in the availability of good quality caviar.

I could not possibly disagree more with equating representation with the availability of good quality caviar. Yes, Patty Jenkins was paid a lot of money to make a big budget movie but that does not mean she didn’t have to fight her ass off for the opportunity or that the position isn’t precarious. There are so many people waiting for people like Patty and movies like WW84 to fail. Sadly, each of these movies have become a battleground that hasn’t nothing to with quality. 

I wish I could view it in a more cavalier manner but I look at the young girls in my life and I am very worried for their safety from COVID but I am also very worried about their self-esteem and feelings of self-worth. Representation matters so very much and it breaks my heart that WW84 being viewed as a flop will be used as an argument against representation. We’re not even a decade out from Ike Purlmutter blocking Black Widow and Captain Marvel movies because female superheroes are failures. It matters. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Guest

[Chyromaniac]

30 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

People can be upset over whatever they want, and if she had just said the part about how it was the best available option I would have agreed. But to state in public that you are "heartbroken" that the big budget movie that you were paid very well for didn't have the best possible release plan makes it sound like you are out of touch with regular people to a ridiculous degree. It would be like if she said she was heartbroken that the pandemic has lead to a decrease in the availability of good quality caviar.

Well, to the people who import and distribute caviar, that would be a pretty big deal.  And if she were the head of production at a caviar cannery speaking to a room full of industry reps, I don't think anyone would have even given it a second thought.  Really, that's all this is - one member of an industry speaking at a conference to officials from a related field about how the pandemic has impacted their shared business.  And personally, I don't consider this a public statement - the only reason anyone not in that room even knows about any of this, is that the industry in question is movies (and not, say, fish eggs).  

[Kel Varnsen]

So at the same event where Patty Jenkins said she was heartbroken over WW84's release she apparently also said that movies that get released on streaming services look like "fake movies". Which makes me wonder if she saw The Old Guard and how she feels about a fake movie that ended up being a lot better than her real movie released the same year. Especially since they were two movies that shared several plot points.

[AngieBee1]

I liked "The Old Guard" but it felt like a fake movie to me; many Netflix (Amazon/Apple+/Hulu) films seem that way to me despite the millions being thrown to make them. It feels like they take a short-cut somewhere whether it's the score/soundtrack or f/x.

But when she said fake she meant that it feels like they don't exist due to the lack of talk surrounding the film. Something, I am also in agreement with.  When a film comes out in theaters it's generally guaranteed to be a point of discussion on social media as people try to see films on the first week out; whereas on streaming it's scattered viewing. It's a rare thing, to me, to see a streaming film dominate social media or in person discussion. I can only think of "Bird Box" doing that. 

This is the full interaction from which he quote stems. 

Aronson: I have a line that if you put a film on TV, no matter what it was originally made for, it’s a TV film. Put it in a theater, that’s a movie.

Jenkins: And by the way, aren’t you seeing it? All of the films that streaming services are putting out, I’m sorry, they look like fake movies to me. I don’t hear about them, I don’t read about them. It’s not working as a model for establishing legendary greatness.

Aronson: It’s true, you can make 75 movies a year, and it’s almost like watching 10 trailers in a row. You’re not going to remember any of them. [Looks at the audience of theater owners.] In case you missed that, 10 is too many trailers to play.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, AngieBee1 said:

But when she said fake she meant that it feels like they don't exist due to the lack of talk surrounding the film. Something, I am also in agreement with.  When a film comes out in theaters it's generally guaranteed to be a point of discussion on social media as people try to see films on the first week out; whereas on streaming it's scattered viewing. It's a rare thing, to me, to see a streaming film dominate social media or in person discussion. I can only think of "Bird Box" doing that. 

I agree with this. Not saying made-for-streaming movies are all bad but like direct-to-DVD movies they just lack that certain something.

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, AngieBee1 said:

liked "The Old Guard" but it felt like a fake movie to me; many Netflix (Amazon/Apple+/Hulu) films seem that way to me despite the millions being thrown to make them. It feels like they take a short-cut somewhere whether it's the score/soundtrack or f/x.

I'll admit that The Old Guard did look kind of on the cheap side. But it would be nice it Patty Jenkins was more worried about why and how a cheap looking fake movie was better than WW84, rather than taking time to call out other people's movies. 

Also her social media/news feed/podcast list must be way different than mine since I heard a lot about the Old Guard and it's pending sequel (not to mention The Irishman, which of course the director of that movie would probably think it is more legitimate than WW84).

[DearEvette]

2 hours ago, AngieBee1 said:

I liked "The Old Guard" but it felt like a fake movie to me; many Netflix (Amazon/Apple+/Hulu) films seem that way to me despite the millions being thrown to make them. It feels like they take a short-cut somewhere whether it's the score/soundtrack or f/x.

I don't mind filmmakers feeling some type of way about their films not releasing in theaters.  But the way some go on you'd swear every single thing they are putting out is the pinnacle of sweeping cinematic art and you can only truly appreciate it on the big screen whereupon you will be transformed. 

At the end of the day people really just want to enjoy the movie they are watching regardless of how they are watching it.  Sure some movies are best experienced on the big screen and some people are purists but there is a level of condescension of other media coming out of these conversation that, imo, often sounds like a judgement on their audience as much a condemnation of the system that made the decision.

For me, I saw both Old Guard and WW84.  I found Old Guard entertaining as hell (also directed by a woman -- a black woman at that) and the writing, story, characters and action was enough for me to watched again and am happily awaiting the sequel.

Meanwhile I was 100% meh on WW84.  The best part was the opening games which, yeah, probably would have been rather cool on the big screen but nothing else about that movie resonated at all.

Was WW84 more expensive looking than OG?  Yes.  But for me, I compare it to a cute house furnished with taste and warmth on a budget vs. a big mansion furnished with high priced items but still comes off as cold and kinda tacky.

[AngieBee1]

Quote

I'll admit that The Old Guard did look kind of on the cheap side. But it would be nice it Patty Jenkins was more worried about why and how a cheap looking fake movie was better than WW84, rather than taking time to call out other people's movies. 

She didn't say the films were bad - just that due to the output there's no resonance to it.  I will say I disagree with her about it not establishing greatness because there's no way to tell what will eventually be deemed great cinema. I'm sure when Alfred Hitchcock or Orson Welles made their films they were just thinking on how to make a great film for that moment, not thinking/knowing that they will become films held up as cinematic masterpieces for the ages. Also, I know so many people hated WW84 but I loved it. Very much a throwback to Richard Lester's SUPERMAN II. 

Quote

Also her social media/news feed/podcast list must be way different than mine since I heard a lot about the Old Guard and it's pending sequel (not to mention The Irishman, which of course the director of that movie would probably think it is more legitimate than WW84).

There will always be exceptions. Of course there will be news about Martin Scorsese or Alfonso Cuarón, the Coen Bros. or Aaron Sorkin doing a film for a streamer but the  majority of the films churned out are films that would be cable worthy (think any film that came out of Adam Sandler's Netflix deal and VELVET BUZZSAW) and just seem to pop up.  Again, there's always exceptions: if one's a fan of one of the actors or directors they will know more about it, but it's not like Netflix has to do a huge publicity push for their films because they're assured people will more than likely watch  it as part of their subscription.

Quote

but there is a level of condescension of other media coming out of these conversation that, imo, often sounds like a judgement on their audience as much a condemnation of the system that made the decision.

I'm a big believer in the theatrical experience and I have even seen Netflix films in the theater as opposed to watching it via my subscription because I wanted to experience it in that medium.   As film lovers and/or people who went to film school and studied the craft it makes complete sense to me that they want their vision executed the way they envisioned it.   It's like if a painter created a piece for The Louvre and was told that instead of The Louvre it will be shown in a public library. Yes, the art is still going to be seen but it's not the same.   

Days before lockdown I attended a Q&A/screening for the film "The Hunt" and Damon Lindelof was asked about it going to VOD and how he felt about the future of streaming and he essentially said if Netflix wanted to give him millions and full creative freedom he'd of course take them up on it, but he loves the theatrical experience.  I understand the filmmakers protectiveness; as well as the protectiveness of the exhibitors whose livelihood is predicated by cinema going.   There are people who don't care how they consume media and that's perfectly fine, but it's also fine that there are defenders who want to see the theatrical experience not fade away.

[Kel Varnsen]

10 minutes ago, AngieBee1 said:

She didn't say the films were bad - just that due to the output there's no resonance to it.  I will say I disagree with her about it not establishing greatness because there's no way to tell what will eventually be deemed great cinema. I'm sure when Alfred Hitchcock or Orson Welles made their films they were just thinking on how to make a great film for that moment, not thinking/knowing that they will become films held up as cinematic masterpieces for the ages. Also, I know so many people hated WW84 but I loved it. Very much a throwback to Richard Lester's SUPERMAN II. 

To me saying streaming movies look fake is a would mean that movies in theatre look real. And saying something is real and another thing is fake is a pretty big judgement that one is better than the other.

Interesting that you mentioned Hitchcock, because when he made Psycho he also made it on the cheap by using his Alfred Hitchcock Presents TV crew and shooting it in black and white. But I doubt anyone would say an all time classic movie like that looks fake.

To me it just comes down to the fact that if you make movies and you are going to criticize other people's movies then yours better be awesome. Like I thought what Scorcese said about comic book movies was stupid, but Goodfellas is one of my top 5 favourite movies so I am not super concerned with his opinion.

[Guest]

I find it really unfortunate that bits and pieces of what she is said is being judged largely without context. The whole conversation is interesting. 
 

Quote

Jenkins’ comments about the release of the “Wonder Woman” sequel — the first Warner Bros. picture to go to HBO Max and theaters simultaneously (a strategy known as day-and-date release) — got the headlines. 

But Jenkins’ message for Hollywood was a broader appeal for studios and theaters to bring massive audiences back to cinemas. She implored studios to stop ceding genres like adult dramas to streaming services. She also didn’t spare theaters themselves, which in her view often fail to live up to the romanticized version of the theatrical experience that CinemaCon promotes.

She praised streaming for proving that audiences are interested in dramatic movies and documentaries. It wasn’t a conversation to knock streaming but concern that the theatrical experience is being lost. 

 

12 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

To me saying streaming movies look fake is a would mean that movies in theatre look real. And saying something is real and another thing is fake is a pretty big judgement that one is better than the other.

To me there is a difference between a comment on the quality of movies and on the experience of watching a movie and she was talking about the later. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Guest

[Bruinsfan]

Ironically Velvet Buzzsaw was one of the few streaming service movies I recall hearing a lot of chatter about. Its problem was that almost none of it was positive. (A problem that Jenkins should be familiar with after WW84...)

[AnimeMania]

‘Wonder Woman 3’ Cancelled Amidst DC Management Shakeups

Nobody seems to know if there was supposed to be a "Wonder Woman 3", but if there was, it is no longer moving forward.

[aghst]

3 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

‘Wonder Woman 3’ Cancelled Amidst DC Management Shakeups

Nobody seems to know if there was supposed to be a "Wonder Woman 3", but if there was, it is no longer moving forward.

Heard that Jenkins was suppose to turn in a draft of a screen play and she turned in something else, like maybe some notes or something.

WW 1984 underperformed so WBD is not in a tolerant mood apparently.  Plus they're under financial pressure.

Gunn is the one who supposedly made the decision.

I don't see them giving up this property.  They will make one before Gadot becomes too old.

[methodwriter85]

20 minutes ago, aghst said:

I don't see them giving up this property.  They will make one before Gadot becomes too old.

Agreed. They got a decent five to ten years to do it. If Hugh Jackman can play Wolverine for almost twenty years Gadot can play Wonder Woman over 15.

Edited December 8, 2022 by methodwriter85

[Kel Varnsen]

26 minutes ago, aghst said:

Heard that Jenkins was suppose to turn in a draft of a screen play and she turned in something else, like maybe some notes or something.

Yeah what I read was that she turned in a story treatment and that got rejected. To me that said they shot down her story idea for the third movie, not necessarily that there isn't going to be a 3rd one. And considering how dumb the story for WW84 was, maybe that's not a bad thing.

[Bruinsfan]

Maybe they should see if Allan Heinberg has enough free time left over from The Sandman to write the screenplay?

[tv echo]

Wonder Woman 1984 | Scene Study: The Open Road | Warner Bros. Entertainment
Warner Bros. Entertainment   Aug 10, 2023