S05.E09: Episode 9

[Maximona]

Wow.  People really give a sh#t about anything that's published in Vanity Fair?  

This show really does push the limits of fiction!

[bobbyjoe]

Quote

Wow.  People really give a sh#t about anything that's published in VanityFair?  

Apparently the parents at Trevor and Stacy’s school hang out in the school parking lot staring at their phones, waiting breathlessly til the newest issue of Vanity Fair comes online.

If we’re talking about the show as a comedy, the scene where Helen pulls up in the school parking lot and everyone’s gossiping about her is the funniest scene.  I half expected the scene to end with Helen running away from the parking lot to the exaggerated sound of everyone laughing at her, the way Pee Wee runs away from the Alamo in Pee Wee’s Big Adventure.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Man, I was really bugged by the way Priya was treated in this ep.  It’s like she’s an annoyance, or worse yet, some kind of creepy villain.  WTF with this shit, Treem?  Helen’s reaction to seeing her in her house was ridiculous.  I thought she was gonna do a Homer Simpson girly scream.  So stupid!

And then Helen shuddered when Sierra went off with Priya — as if she was being led off by Freddy Krueger.  Why?  Eh, fuck off, Helen!  Priya seems like a caring & stable & responsible woman.  At least now Eddie will have a chance to live.  He’d certainly be killed off by Sierra or driven insane by her psycho mom.  And what do ya bet that the pic in EJ’s phone (he mentioned to Joanie) is of Priya & NOT Sierra?

But what really bugged the absolute piss out of me was when Eden dismissed Helen, not just as being a stay at home mom, but being of “another generation”?  Was I annoyed with Eden for saying something so stupid?  NO!  I was mad as hell at Treem for the shitty writing here!!!

The diff in ages between Eden & Helen is maybe 12 or 13 years tops — they are NOT of different generations!  And being a SAHM may involve class issues, but it has NOTHING to do with differing generations.  And neither does supporting your ex-husband & the father of your children.  It’s just more of the same shitty, shitty, shitty writing this season.

I don’t know much about Busy, but wow, did she come off like a gigantic asshole here or what?  They both were dumping on Helen, who was (even in the shortened quote) merely concerned about the welfare of her children.  The irony of this shouldn’t be lost — that Eden & Busy were pushing MeToo & yet mercilessly & unfairly crucifying another woman.  Blech!  And with all this, Treem is trouncing on MeToo & will in effect make it harder for the next MeToo victims to be taken seriously.  Why, Treem, why?

Edited October 23, 2019 by ScoobieDoobs

[T Summer]

I agree the writing is crap.

I didn't see Helen being hostile to Priya, she just seemed overwhelmed by the events unfolding and she did smile and say thank you to her. You many have interpreted the scene different;y Scoobie Doobs which does happen. I'm just glad they finally got Priya and baby Eddie together! As I think we've all been shouting at our TV's  for weeks... What about Priya?

My hat is off to Maura Tierny continuing to act this crap script at the same level  where she began five years ago. It has to be a challenge!

I agree wholeheartedly about this different generation malarkey that Eden was  spewing and  I was shocked to find this overblown character Busy Phillips  was a real person! I've managed to  avoid coming across her on the internet so far.

Does anyone understand why cell phone coverage was affected by the fires? All the running around to see that family members  were ok was necessary, because they couldn't be reached, yet everyone was seeing the V.F. article and the subsequent media alerts online? So does that mean the internet was unaffected? Couldn't they all FaceTime on their Macs?  I'm confused.

[stormy weather]

On 10/21/2019 at 10:45 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Seeing Helen and the kids wearing the masks didn't bother me because we did wear those masks during the Northern California fires.  The air quality was really poor.  The masks they were wearing are the correct ones to filter out the small particles that were causing breathing problems for many people.  It was a reasonable precautionary measure.  Now as to how pristine they looked, um, no.  They go pretty smushed looking by the time you make the mask fit well to your face and it reacts to the moisture in your breath.

I'm so sorry, again, I didn't mean to be disrespectful to people who were actually affected by the California wildfires, it's just that I found it ridiculous how they went to great lengths to shove that element in the season as well by adding two totally random scenes (the helicopter and the car) that could've easily been avoided 'cause they have nothing to do with the story!

Edited October 23, 2019 by stormy weather

[LuvMyShows]

On 10/21/2019 at 12:24 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

The kids were a mess prior to the divorce so neither Helen nor Noah were great parents.

Yeah, Noah saying to Helen that she's a great mother was a joke.  Just on that episode alone, her son had an audition that day for a school play and she had no idea.  Her daughter had a geometry test that day, and she had no idea.  (And geometry, for a 12-year old?)

On 10/21/2019 at 2:14 PM, LydiaE said:

The script supervisor should’ve pressed charges against Noah, not told a stupid MeToo story. 

The accusations from the script supervisor should have really snapped Helen out of her defending Noah sh*t, because she saw the bra that Noah placed in Sasha's bed, so she knows that what the script supervisor is saying is true about what he did to her at the party.

Also, Noah had just lied to Helen over and over and over again when she asked him about whether the upcoming Vanity Fair story had a #MeToo tinge to it, yet the very next day when she was asked something about what Noah did, she said something like, "Why would he lie?" or "What reason would he have for lying?"  Well, dumbass, Noah has never NEEDED a reason to lie...he just does!  You know that first-hand.

20 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

The one ridiculous thing that made me irrationally angry last night was Stacy using the phrase, "mise en place." Sure, whatever. 

My irrationally angry was when Whitney was talking to Furkat and mentioned that she was worried about the effect on her "siblings".  It just sounded so stilted...wouldn't she say "brother and sister" (since she was talking about Trevor and Stacy, but wouldn't have used their names since she wasn't sure if Furkat remembered their names)?

[Lsk02]

On 10/20/2019 at 8:51 AM, weaver said:

Was the whole character of Colin changed in a single scene?   Now he is this loving caring artist who doesn’t expect dinner to be on the table when he comes home.

This episode sucked and felt way longer than it actually was, but that part did give me pause. I actually think Colin’s complete 180 is a result of the original premise of this show: differing perspectives. We have almost always seen Colin through Whitney’s eyes. It was obvious she was annoyed as hell with him and saw him as a dead beat, green card fiancé in all of her previous interactions with him, when shown from her perspective. 
 

But then the shit hits the fan and her dad is a terrible man. Plus she had an interaction with Furkat, also terrible man, who treated her horribly. 
 

Suddenly she goes home to Colin, who is now the only man she’s in contact with who isn’t *that* terrible. We see him only through her lens, and all of that old stuff he was has disappeared. Possibly because she needed at least one man in her life to be decent in that moment. We just know her perception of that moment. Which says a lot about her, I think. I don’t think her earlier view of him, or this one, are necessarily accurate to who he is. But it is how she chooses to see him. 
 

I know the storyline in general sucks and the show is nothing like it was in the first season. But I do think this is true to what the show used to be, at least. Or, maybe I’m giving them way too much credit? Lol! 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Lsk02

[AngelaHunter]

I just watched this. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I fell asleep when Whiney got on the plane.

I'm finding it a little far-fetched that everyone in the Hollywood/LA scene is mesmerized with the shocking, horrible activities of some virtually unknown author, to the point where everyone in magazines and on TV talk shows and right down to parents dropping their kids at school ALL have nothing more important to gossip about than the possible misconduct of one Noah Fucking Solloway, because he's really of prime importance. 

Colin suddenly turnes into a stalwart, who wasn't lying around and being lazy and just wanting Whitney for a green card. He's spent all this time slaving to exhaustion over one painting that of course is a tribute to his beloved.

It was midly amusing when Whitney's whole damned family came barging in. True sit-com material.

Is there one man on this show in the last 3 - 4 seasons that hasn't been turned into an evil, underhanded, not-bright, back-stabbing, cheating bastard/asshole? It's all really tiresome.

And all that Joanie stuff? That was how it was wrapped up, with so much time-wasting to end up in a great big nothing?

[T Summer]

44 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Is there one man on this show in the last 3 - 4 seasons that hasn't been turned into an evil, underhanded, not-bright, back-stabbing, cheating bastard/asshole? It's all really tiresome.

Well, there WAS Cole. May he rest in peace. 🥰

Oh wait, he did have one fall from grace with Delphine didn't he? Well, can we blame him? She did "come with the room" after all. He put up a good fight.

...and he apologized to her afterwards.

[heavy sarcasm]

[Milburn Stone]

Love the show. Loved the episode.

[AngelaHunter]

15 minutes ago, T Summer said:

Well, there WAS Cole. May he rest in peace.

He was a real shit to Luisa. Hm...Does Ms.Treem have something against men?🤔

[Razzberry]

I don't think Sasha Mann is too bad..or is he?  I'm not clear on what exactly he did to set Helen off and go running to Noah in the midst of the fires.  She's been well aware Shasha Mann can't stand him, even banning him from the set because Noah turns everything into a pissing contest.  I just wish Helen would quit saying "It's all my fault." 

I did like the fire drama though.  Ahh, choppers and smoke, the LA I know and love.

 Apparently, Sasha Mann.  Someday you'll be thankful for dodging this bullet .

  Helen's an idiot .                                                                                                                                                                 

[T Summer]

4 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I don't think Sasha Mann is too bad..or is he?  I'm not clear on what exactly he did to set Helen off and go running to Noah in the midst of the fires.  She's been well aware Shasha Mann can't stand him, even banning him from the set because Noah turns everything into a pissing contest.                                                                                                                                                              

When Sasha said to Helen she shouldn't lie to the kids about what that nice lady on TV said and he recalled how Eden still seemed traumatized at the party,  it clicked into place  for Helen that he'd talked to  his friend Petra at VF and told her what she'd said... that she thought  Noah and Eden  were sleeping together on the book tour.

  Eden Ellery NYC publicist wasn't on anyone's radar. She  had a different last name (Bishop?),  a different career as an  agent and was living on a different coast than 10 years ago.

It was a betrayal and  Helen saw it  as setting everything in motion resulting in the other women coming forward.

[Milburn Stone]

7 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I don't think Sasha Mann is too bad..or is he?                                           

There is clearly a three-line parallel being laid out for us with Sasha, Furkat, and Noah. Noah may not be as evil as the other two--he certainly seems not as consciously manipulative as the other two. But when Whitney said that prior to Noah's moment of recognition of her in the hot tub, she saw a look on his face that told her he regarded women as prey, he seemed sadly to own up to that. The only question--and I think this is a question Sarah Treem wants us to answer, rather than wait for her to spoon-feed us the answer--is whether Helen's defense of Noah that "this is just the way it is with men and women" is correct. We are free to reject that--but it is not clear that Helen is wrong. If Helen is not wrong, does that mean we should be OK with men abusing women, in any way? The answer to that is so obviously no that the question shouldn't need to be asked. But is there something in human evolution that makes it natural (if not universal) for men to desire sexual conquest? The answer to that is more ambiguous. And I think Sarah Treem means us to think about it.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[Stad15]

2 hours ago, T Summer said:

Eden Ellery NYC publicist wasn't on anyone's radar. She  had a different last name (Bishop?)

Yes.  Bishop.  Peter Bishop. 😂

[Double A]

I enjoyed the two POVs showing Helen and Whitney's dynamics with these men who are all predatory in their own way. Sasha and Furkat have means and connections to dazzle their prey into false security when they swoop in to save the day so they are in the trap before they know they are caught. It really is generational - both the women got it (denial and running from one 'white knight' to the next) from their mamas. Whitney is waking up tho. She could kick the green card ball and chain to the curb but considering her need for 'real' love she will go through with marrying her first ex husband.

[LuvMyShows]

Colin worked this whole time on....a gift?  It sure seems like Whitney is supposed to keep it, and given how long it took him to paint it, there ain't no way he will have a financially sustainable career...especially since the painting simply looks like a faithful and accurate representation of Whitney, with no intrigue or interest to it.  I think the look on her face was supposed to convey that, but again, it just looks like an accurate rendering of a particular expression on her face, rather than something that draws the viewer in to make it a piece of art.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Much like the excerpts we heard from Noah's book that was supposed to make us think he was a great writer (and not just putting out some skeevy schlock), Colin's portrait did not impress as much as I think it was supposed to. Having a financially sustained career as an artist takes an enormous amount of work. It may just be that we are seeing Whitney's view in which she sees him as a slacker and he forgot to get coffee, etc. because he was working so hard.  However, that portrait was not enough to change the perception for me. 

[Stad15]

15 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

He was a real shit to Luisa. Hm...Does Ms.Treem have something against men?🤔

And Cole dealed cocaine, aka "The Lockhart Family business."

[T Summer]

5 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

There is clearly a three-line parallel being laid out for us with Sasha, Furkat, and Noah. Noah may not be as evil as the other two--he certainly seems not as consciously manipulative as the other two. But when Whitney said that prior to Noah's moment of recognition of her in the hot tub, she saw a look on his face that told her he regarded women as prey, he seemed sadly to own up to that. The only question--and I think this is a question Sarah Treem wants us to answer, rather than wait for her to spoon-feed us the answer--is whether Helen's defense of Noah that "this is just the way it is with men and women" is correct. We are free to reject that--but it is not clear that Helen is wrong. If Helen is not wrong, does that mean we should be OK with men abusing women, in any way? The answer to that is so obviously no that the question shouldn't need to be asked. But is there something in human evolution that makes it natural (if not universal) for men to desire sexual conquest? The answer to that is more ambiguous. And I think Sarah Treem means us to think about it.

Your comment is so interesting Milburn Stone. I see the parallel with Noah and Furkat  but I'm not seeing how Sasha's M.O. lines up. Sasha comes across as an ego-maniac. He wants to not only star in Desent but be credited with  screenwriting  and  he doesn't care who he hurts to make that happen; his love interest Helen,  her children, whoever.

Furkat and Noah use their success and notoriety  to impress women, and from that field they select much younger women, as they're easier to get over on. They both need that edge. For these sexual conquests they rack up they're not dealing with Helens and Janelles. It wouldn't work. Different dynamic. Noah's relationship with Janelle of a few months duration was an exception to  the way he usually conducts himself.

Sasha at least is dealing with Helen who is  his age or close to it. Also Helen wasn't impressed by Sasha's movie star status and initially refused to date him. She  appeared to be the only one around for miles who dealt with him like a real person, sometimes challenging him where everyone else fawned  all over him. Everywhere Helen went women especially were  dazzled by the mere mention of his name and couldn't believe she was dating Sasha Man. Also I don't see Sasha as having so little regard for women as people the way I see  Noah and Furkat. Sasha appeared to genuinely enjoy Helen's company. I didn't get the impression he got with  Helen  merely hoping to pick up some tidbit  he could use to bring Noah down. Though clearly, he wasn't above keeping his ears open.

Unless you simply mean all three are users?

  Sasha is an equal opportunity user / manipulator, where Noah and Furkat habitually target young women.

[Diane12251]

On 10/20/2019 at 7:09 PM, nara said:

By they way, I continue to be outraged when they say Descent was 10 years earlier. That would make Whitney at least 27 and Stacey would have had to be an infant during the first Montauk visit.

Yes, the timeline is completely off.  Very careless of the writers, but then so many things in this season are handled horribly by the writers.  This whole #metoo storyline is really wearing on me.  There are so many other ways they could have taken this final season rather than going into that.  Sigh... of course, I'll watch it to the end, but I'm not expecting it to get any better.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Diane12251

[T Summer]

Is Noah still teaching? It was Principal Josh who gave him the Jungle Janitor Halloween costume for Sasha's party i... (a perennial favorite, to be sure.) So that was late October and he was at the school.  Whitney and Noah were just getting back from Montauk in December. Noah said he's still on eastern time in Helen's kitchen. So has any of this affected his teaching position, or did the writers forget about Noah's profound calling to help mold young minds?

[fountain]

Noah has been an dick across many seasons now and he definitely seems seek out these intense/dramatic sexual relationships, often with younger women. It seems everyone everywhere is hitting on him but the perspectives are skewed on this show so you never really know how stuff is happening from the other perspective for non-main characters. I felt Noah was going overboard in the confrontation where he grabbed Eden as that never looks good to bystanders.

That said, IRL at my work a consensual relationship between a supervisor and an employee was deemed a ‘power unbalanced relationship’ by another employee who found out about it just because that employee believed that the person with less power can never consent (all the people involved are over 40). In this case, the person with less power pursued the supervisor and was very clear that was how this relationship came to fruition and there was not any power aspect at play. Personally, I think it is better to avoid relationships in the workplace but you spend so much of your time there, it happens.

Edited October 24, 2019 by fountain

[gingerella]

On 10/20/2019 at 7:54 PM, ScoobieDoobs said:

I hate what Treem did here with this MeToo stuff.  It's not a complete fake & yet it is.  Er, huh?  It's enough to destroy a man's reputation, career and his life.  OK, don't look to me to defend Noah, but does Treem want to rip him apart before our eyes?  It's kinda gross.  Shit, he wasn't Matt Lauer or Charlie Rose or Weinstein.

I feel the same way. It feels as if Treem is using the show to work out some personal issues she's had in her past. I mean, if she came out and said she'd been #metoo'd in the past I wouldn't even muster up any empathy, I'd probably just feel more like, "thanks for fucking up a perfectly good show and using it as your therapy punching bag", because she just has run this show into the ground beyond recognition! The only saving grace for me is Maura, god she's good, though I suspect she's getting tired of scowling all the time. I feel like we, as the viewers, have be left a flaming bag of steaming dog shit on our front stoops courtesy of Treem, and we're all stamping it out now even though we know we're getting hot, wet dog shit all over our slippers...

[Razzberry]

On 10/23/2019 at 10:41 AM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Much like the excerpts we heard from Noah's book that was supposed to make us think he was a great writer (and not just putting out some skeevy schlock), Colin's portrait did not impress as much as I think it was supposed to. Having a financially sustained career as an artist takes an enormous amount of work. It may just be that we are seeing Whitney's view in which she sees him as a slacker and he forgot to get coffee, etc. because he was working so hard.  However, that portrait was not enough to change the perception for me. 

That was my reaction as well.  I don't know anything about art but was expecting something more than a painting of his pretty girlfriend.  It will have to be a gift because who else would pay good money for it?   I bought a painting of a woman from local artist Heather Jones who had a showing, but something about it intrigued me. 

I don't get the same feeling from Colin's work, but that's just me.

[luckylou]

This whole show has been about people who duck responsibility for everything.  If Helen had stopped, called an ambulance, reported the accident, there would have been no show. Just that ages old tale of a man who tired of his nagging wife and difficult in-laws and thought he saw greener pastures elsewhere, and the tragic story of a couple who lost their only child and were not able to console one another... It should have ended many seasons ago.

[T Summer]

Agreed. Helen should have called the police and said she was involved in an accident.

However, there was no guy in the road to be hit until Alison pushed Scotty into it.

Noah can get some blame too, because Helen said she'd had too much to drink to drive and Noah insisted. So does he sit back in his seat and chill? No, he picks just then to touch Helen's arm and look her in the eyes.

[Otherkate]

Is this show whacked out or what? Seriously, I think this may be the craziest show on tv. I can't believe that, with only a few episodes left, they decided to up the ante on Whitney, her random Irish boyfriend, and throw in an entire Me Too storyline. I mean, what a wild ride. This show is nuts!

[T Summer]

Re: Helen concluding Noah's only in hot water in the press because of a remark she made to Sasha at that party and explaining to the family she was wrong to say she  thought Eden and Noah were sleeping together on the book tour... therefor everything that's happening is her fault:

There's an article on this very site,"The Affair Refresher eight  story lines to remember" that states Noah was sleeping with his publicist!

https://www.primetimer.com/features/catching-up-with-the-affair-what-you-need-to-know-ahead-of-season-5

It's under the heading Joanie's parentage, oddly enough

"Joanie's Parentage

Joanie is Alison and Cole's daughter, but for the first two years of her life, Noah thought he was her father. Noah was also sleeping with his publicist when Alison was pregnant (when he thought it was his baby). This dude really can't keep it in his pants. The repercussions of grief is a big theme of The Affair, and the cyclical nature of the Lockhart family trauma will be a focus. Now that Joanie is the same age her mother was when she died, will she learn the truth of what happened that night?" - quoted from the article The Affair Refresher eight  story lines to remember by Emma Fraser

Edited October 29, 2019 by T Summer
added writer's name

[Aqua]

Okay, so this whole episode is about Helen being stupid and taking the men’s side and Whitney learning all about #MeToo from Audrey and then educating her mom. If this is not the most annoying episode, I do not know what is.

Whitney's allegation: Noah is stalking prey? So you're in the hot tub kissing some woman you don’t know and your dad is also in the hot tub looking to kiss a woman that he doesn’t know. So tell me please how are you any better than him??

Let’s make it clear that neither knew the other one was there. There is no stalking of prey. Both were there independently and happened to run into each other. Way to retcon, Treem, not buying it.

And let’s not forget in the Uber, Whitney’s grossed out by the guy glancing at her cleavage, that’s why she buys a hoodie for the plane ride home. What a tired trope, not to mention complete bullshit. Maybe pull up your shirt (which she had obviously pulled down for some reason) so your bra’s not hanging out. Am I blaming women for being looked at? No, I am annoyed with false victimization of women and girls in the wake of #MeToo.

Also, thanks for hammering in repeatedly if we didn’t get it the first time that Colin’s portrait of Whitney is supposed to show the face of a broken down #MeToo victim but sorry no, that is not what she is. She had absolute agency over the fact she chose to get involved with the dirtbag Furkat just as she chose to get into the hot tub in an orgy with a bunch of strangers.

On to other things…

Thanks, Priya for showing up, but where were you a few weeks ago when Sierra needed childcare help, or rather what were you thinking, writers, for not having someone say “Let’s phone Priya”?

Eden makes the silly mistake of saying when she worked with Noah she had been “so young,” and two minutes later saying she had to throw away her career and years of accomplishments. Can’t have it both ways, Eden, and why no one shouted at the TV these two incongruent claims?

Really don’t get the ending of the Helen segment where she takes a phone call and tells Sasha she needs his car and then they all show up at Whitney’s 30 seconds after Noah barges in. What led her to drive her kids through smoke for that meeting? What was the crisis? To hear Noah say it didn’t happen like the VF piece said? Makes no sense to me. But as I sit here watching this in 2021 seeing them driving through the smoke and I’m thinking “Hey where’d you get those N-95s??”