S28:E06: Top 9

[Yeah No]

10 hours ago, spanana said:

True but if these were already people that decided to vote for Spicer without ever seeing him dance, since it's unlikely that most of Spicer's fans are waiting and voting based on dancing ability, their votes would already be used up anyway so their votes would never be going anywhere besides Sean.

At least a percentage of votes would be going somewhere else to someone with more ability if Sean wasn't on the show, because a portion of the viewers that normally watch the show are voting for him.  So his votes aren't just coming from the people tuning in just because of him that don't care about ability.  Although it's less likely that those voting for Sean from the regular viewing audience would have voted for Sailor even if he wasn't there for the reasons I theorized, and that's my point.

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

No, I didn't forget. I made the same comment upthread. Changing the voting to live only puts it largely into the hands of an older demographic. Younger viewers just don't watch live TV anymore unless it's sports or some significant event. Plus I think the median age for this particular show probably skews older anyway. 

I'm not necessarily directing this at you, but is there something wrong with the vote being in the hands of older people or with the audience being mostly older?  I'm not sure I understand why that was brought up.  I personally think they should allow voting for the next 2 days after the show airs and base the elimination on the prior week's totals.  I thought they actually did that for a while but I admit I don't keep track of these things.

[saber5055]

56 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

At least a percentage of votes would be going somewhere else to someone with more ability if Sean wasn't on the show, because a portion of the viewers that normally watch the show are voting for him.

It's very possible people who are not watching the show are voting for Sean. I can vote for whomever I want while I watch the other channel. ABC can't tell if you are a viewer or a voting bot (meaning voting because someone tells you to, not because you watch the show.)

[axlmadonna]

On 10/21/2019 at 9:07 PM, spanana said:

Did Val never prepare her for the possibility of leaving?

I don't think anyone in her life has prepared her for life's failures and disappointments. 

I mean, damn, girl! The kids on Masterchef Junior handle getting cut with more dignity. 

Having said that, I thought she had a shot at the semi- finals at least. It should have been Spicer, not because some people don't like him, but because he's a weak dancer and should have been gone by now. And if it wasn't gonna be him, I wanted it to be Hannah.

Edited October 25, 2019 by axlmadonna

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, axlmadonna said:

I don't think anyone in her life has prepared her for life's failures and disappointments. 

I mean, damn, girl! The kids on Masterchef Junior handle getting cut with more dignity. 

Having said that, I thought she had a shot at the semi- finals at least. It should have been Spicer, not because some people don't like him, but because he's a weak dancer and should have been gone by now. And if it wasn't gonna be him, I wanted it to be Hannah.

I agree with you about Sailor.  The way the popular weak dancers continue to last on the show beyond their natural expiration date is something I've been railing about for over a decade with this show.  I don't know why they don't realize the voting system is not working anymore.  They think that if they let people feel like they have a voice they'll be more likely to tune in.  But then they go and fiddle with the voting rules so that half the country doesn't have a voice, and the judges can decide who goes from the bottom two.  And the weak dancers still hang on and more of the audience gets alienated.  So where's the logic in that?  This new system is obviously backfiring, but who couldn't see that coming from 10 miles away especially with a contestant like Spicer on the show?  It's like the networks are their own worst enemies these days.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I've never been asked my age when voting on any show, via phone or online. Plus if I were asked, I would "skew really, really young." Because it's no one's business.

They don't get their median age numbers from voting, they get them from the Nielsen ratings. They know who's watching what and what age they are. The median age of the show's viewers overall skews older as do the median age of all live TV watchers.

[OnceSane]

We are adjusting the site politics policy for this season to allow limited conversation about Trump tweeting for Sean Spicer on this show.  However, personal politics is still not allowed, nor is any other political discussion.

[calipiano81]

On 10/24/2019 at 10:42 AM, luvthepros said:

Quote

On 10/23/2019 at 6:27 PM, calipiano81 said:

I am a SYTYCD watcher too, but they often water down the ballroom dances (just like DWTS waters down contemporary/jazz), even though they have ballroom specialists choreographing them. So I need both shows to fulfill my complete dance fix 🙂

The celebrities on DWTS have their ballroom dances watered down much more than the professional contestants on SYTYCD. There is no comparison with the quality of dancing when comparing SYTYCD to DWTS.

I wasn't actually comparing the quality of dancing of the two shows. I was saying that the two shows fill in for me what the other one lacks. I enjoy jazz and contemporary on SYTYCD, but not so much on DWTS because most of the pros are not utilizing real jazz and contemporary technique and movements. Conversely, ballroom is my favorite style of dance to watch, but I don't always get satisfaction from watching SYTYCD ballroom routines because they are often comprised of a lot of non-ballroom stuff and tricks. In this regard, I prefer DWTS because even though they are being danced by non-dancers, the dances tend to have more proper ballroom content.

Edited October 25, 2019 by calipiano81

[calipiano81]

20 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I'm not necessarily directing this at you, but is there something wrong with the vote being in the hands of older people or with the audience being mostly older?  I'm not sure I understand why that was brought up.  I personally think they should allow voting for the next 2 days after the show airs and base the elimination on the prior week's totals.  I thought they actually did that for a while but I admit I don't keep track of these things.

There is nothing wrong, but DWTS history has shown that there are certain types of contestants the show's main demographic (older, white, conservative females in the south and midwest) will likely vote for. And unfortunately, contestants like Bobby Bones and Sean Spicer fit the bill.

(On the opposite end, you see the effects of a younger voting audience on a show like So You Think You Can Dance, where the ballroom contestants are much more likely than contemporary and hip hop contestants to end up in the bottom.)

Of the remaining contestants this season, Lauren, Hannah, James, and Kate seem to be demographic-appealing, so hopefully the winner will come out of this group.

Edited October 26, 2019 by calipiano81

[Heckler52317]

I watch (primarily) for the pretty women, so this elimination stung a little...

No sympathy for the judges decrying this shocking outcome- use the full range of scores available! Might not get spicey out, but scoring him so closely to clearly better dancers- you get what you get. Assuming it isn't just scripted theater that is

[vdw84]

21 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

On the opposite end, you see the effects of a younger voting audience on a show like So You Think You Can Dance, where the ballroom contestants are much more likely than contemporary and hip hop contestants to end up in the bottom.)

I think dwts needs to be more diversified. The reason their audience is one particular group is because of who they have their on their show. Sytycd wins in the diversity pool by a mile and so does World of Dance. I dont know maybe its not many poc that do ballroom but its too many white pros.

[boyznkatz]

On 10/26/2019 at 3:03 PM, vdw84 said:

I think dwts needs to be more diversified. The reason their audience is one particular group is because of who they have their on their show. Sytycd wins in the diversity pool by a mile and so does World of Dance. I dont know maybe its not many poc that do ballroom but its too many white pros.

I used to live in Memphis, and POC do learn ballroom dancing. It's just that TPTB just keeps fishing in the same pool in Utah. Maybe if they go to some cities, they can find more diverse pros. 

[RomanKat]

This is speculation about the scoring system:

Given that shocking eliminations are an established "love to hate" feature of the reality competition genre, it's doubtful that DWTS producers would institute a voting system that fully prevents them. My guess is that the new system wasn't designed to ensure quick elimination of controversial contestants, so much as to facilitate their elimination before the finals. (And maybe prevent early shocking eliminations, but we're in the mid-rounds now.) The short voting period limits large voting blocks. A bottom 2 (versus bottom 1) presents tougher math on the voting side, and easier math on the scoring side. A double elimination could further impede large voating blocks.

WRT Sean being a problematic combination of relatively low dance skill combined with relatively outsized voting block, my metric for assessing the new system would be: makes finals = fail; out at semifinals = breakeven; out at quarterfinals = minimal/modest success; out earlier = success. How successful would depend on who and how many are eliminated before him. Better to lose probable mid-rounders like Sailor (questionable fanbase), Karamo (so-so dancing), maybe Kate (older female with new pro) than probable finalists like James (dancing), Hannah (dancing + fanbase), Lauren (fanbase). Kel and Ally fall somewhere in the middle. They appear more vulnerable to premature exit than the frontrunners, but would be more controversial premature exits than the mid-rounders.

Obviously, if your hope was no better dancers leaving before weaker dancers, then the system has failed. This is just my POV. FWIW, I think Kel & Witney should keep reminding viewers that he's a middle aged Dad, and not a young guy whose dancing might suffer in comparision. Personally, I'm hoping Kate & Pasha can break historical patterns to make a deep run. I also wish Mary had stayed longer, but that's mostly on the judges for choosing Ray over her.

[Jennabelle88]

On 10/21/2019 at 9:05 PM, magpye29 said:

Lauren's crying after her dance left me cold, I guess because I didn't see any tears.  

I can't help it. She gets on my nerves so damn bad! 

I was shocked to see the bottom 2. I knew for sure Sean was out. Wth? 

[mjstrick]

TBH.  I never realized how damn homely Jenna is.  Mean I know.  But truth.

[Booklady1017]

On 10/21/2019 at 10:02 PM, mtlchick said:

Once Spicy was saved, I knew I wasn't going to like the ending.  I don't mind Ally, but I was rooting for Sailor and that poor girl was CRUSHED.  I never cry at exits, but I teared up for her. 

In shallow news...James' booty.  

I'm sick and tired of Spicy sliding on through each week. I can't believe people vote for him!

On 10/21/2019 at 10:04 PM, truthaboutluv said:

Sailor. 

Well can't say I was expecting that. Not so much Spicer still living to dance another day but Sailor being the one eliminated. I was sure Karamo or hell even Kel might have left before her. 

And no one can say girlfriend wasn't genuinely upset because poor girl had a full on snot moment on national television. Like being eliminated wasn't awful enough. I continue to not care much about this season, though I did enjoy James and Kate. 

eta: And this exactly why I've said, when many were adamant about the whole judges picking who to eliminate that sure it help, but at the end of the day, the  judges can't do a damn thing when a very weak dancer gets enough votes that they're not even in the Bottom 2. 

I think if a contestant who is constantly weak gets through every week, the judges should have one veto to contest the two dancers in the final 2, like last week and have put back Sailor and put Spicy in the bottom 2 instead.

[Ilovepie]

On 10/28/2019 at 11:22 AM, RomanKat said:

WRT Sean being a problematic combination of relatively low dance skill combined with relatively outsized voting block, my metric for assessing the new system would be: makes finals = fail; out at semifinals = breakeven; out at quarterfinals = minimal/modest success; out earlier = success. How successful would depend on who and how many are eliminated before him. Better to lose probable mid-rounders like Sailor (questionable fanbase), Karamo (so-so dancing), maybe Kate (older female with new pro) than probable finalists like James (dancing), Hannah (dancing + fanbase), Lauren (fanbase). Kel and Ally fall somewhere in the middle. They appear more vulnerable to premature exit than the frontrunners, but would be more controversial premature exits than the mid-rounders.

I think this is a completely reasonable read on the producers expectations regarding casting people like Sean Spicer. They are absolutely courting the controversy- it gets people talking. I don’t think a few “shock” eliminations is a problem either because it happens every single season. The problem was that it went too far last season. I still have hope that Sean’s luck will run out before too long. If he gets to top four, then I am afraid it will be a repeat of last year. I think the internet might explode if that happens......

 I think it’s totally within reason that Sailor exits at this stage bc she was an unknown replacement, she seems devoid of much personality (at least for something like this), and I think she was splitting the vote with the other two young, blonde celebs (Lauren and Ally) with pretty equivalent talent. 
 

I know I’m a couple weeks behind, but I guess I’m in the minority bc I am actually enjoying this season just for the fact that there is no obvious ringer and there are still 7 celebs that are likeable and decent dancers. I would rather see most be pretty good rather than one awesome, three mediocre and the rest crappy. I enjoy James and Kate the most, and I love Karamo’s enthusiasm, but everyone except Sean is pretty decent, and for that I am a happy.

And I loved Erin’s pants, and I kind of love Erin. I think she’s the best co-host this show has ever had. She is kind and encouraging to the participants and I will take her animation any day over someone like the BrookeBot.....

[Bridget]

On 10/28/2019 at 11:22 AM, RomanKat said:

This is speculation about the scoring system:

Given that shocking eliminations are an established "love to hate" feature of the reality competition genre, it's doubtful that DWTS producers would institute a voting system that fully prevents them. My guess is that the new system wasn't designed to ensure quick elimination of controversial contestants, so much as to facilitate their elimination before the finals. (And maybe prevent early shocking eliminations, but we're in the mid-rounds now.) The short voting period limits large voting blocks. A bottom 2 (versus bottom 1) presents tougher math on the voting side, and easier math on the scoring side. A double elimination could further impede large voating blocks.

WRT Sean being a problematic combination of relatively low dance skill combined with relatively outsized voting block, my metric for assessing the new system would be: makes finals = fail; out at semifinals = breakeven; out at quarterfinals = minimal/modest success; out earlier = success. How successful would depend on who and how many are eliminated before him. Better to lose probable mid-rounders like Sailor (questionable fanbase), Karamo (so-so dancing), maybe Kate (older female with new pro) than probable finalists like James (dancing), Hannah (dancing + fanbase), Lauren (fanbase). Kel and Ally fall somewhere in the middle. They appear more vulnerable to premature exit than the frontrunners, but would be more controversial premature exits than the mid-rounders.

Obviously, if your hope was no better dancers leaving before weaker dancers, then the system has failed. This is just my POV. FWIW, I think Kel & Witney should keep reminding viewers that he's a middle aged Dad, and not a young guy whose dancing might suffer in comparision. Personally, I'm hoping Kate & Pasha can break historical patterns to make a deep run. I also wish Mary had stayed longer, but that's mostly on the judges for choosing Ray over her.

As someone who is close in age to Kel, can we all agree that he’s not middle aged? 😉