S02.E09: DC

[sistermagpie]

24 minutes ago, nb360 said:

I wondered, too, how they got some info. It was not just random info but detailed stuff, such as the hours Gregg and Tom stopped emailing in each other.

He seemed to have the emails themselves, so presumably they were able to demand access to it all as part of the investigation.

[Athena5217]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I call bullshit on a fiftysomething woman being named "Kira."

This name may have become popular in the US only in the past few decades, but it is a Russian given name. It’s not as common as Anna or Sofia, but it’s not not rare.

Many of the characters on this show do not have really common American names. Tom and Greg are common names, but Siobhan, Kendall, Roman, Rhea, and Logan are at least not guaranteed to be in a rack of name keychains.

Is Greg supposed to inherit 5 million or 250 million from his grandfather. I think he told Connor 5 million, but at some point I thought he also mentioned giving up 250 million.  I found it odd that Connor scoffed at 5 million yet the previous episode he was so panicked about the play’s lack of revenue he wanted Logsn to invest. How much money could he have possibly invested in that play?

[RealReality]

If tom is the blood sacrifice and abandoned by shiv.....maybe he goes to the biographer out of anger.  Tom has shown signs of rebellion this season in his relationship with shiv.  She may not have him as wrapped around her finger as she once did. 

[scrb]

43 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

He seemed to have the emails themselves, so presumably they were able to demand access to it all as part of the investigation.

Thing is, in big litigation, lawyers can get internal emails and such and there is discovery studying this stuff over a period of months.

But a rapidly-organized congressional hearing?

Congress has staff but they would typically have to hire additional counsel and investigators to amass this kind of info.

Not saying they wouldn't have this info. but it seems like this hearing came up right away, like the Roys were surprised it was coming up.  Of course that's because the whistleblower (again what timing) got on TV so Congress was going to hold hearings.

So the Roys wouldn't have warning about how much info. Congress might have gotten.  Usually they are given notice to produce such and such documents, not to destroy or delete anything.

In any event, they did a poor job of prepping Tom.  They shouldn't have been surprised by the Mo-Lester emails.  So why wasn't he coached up to say something?

But I can give them this license, that Congress had enough damning info to put the Roys on their heels.  They survived the hearings but  as Logan said, members of the board are "vegetarian" so Kendall's red meat to the ATN base won't play with the board.

[Tikichick]

Out of the 4 Roy offspring Roman appears to be the one actually in a situation where his life is literally on the line, yet it seems at least two of his siblings are in a more precarious position at the moment.

Connor is seemingly in the clear as the sibling not involved in the company.  Yet he's making noise and sticking his neck out as a potential presidential candidate . . . a potential candidate who comes from a widely reviled family, who willingly shows up for this hearing about heinous abuses that occurred at the family company, who inexplicably sits where he's guaranteed to be on camera during the bloodletting -- and even more inexplicably over reacts in a celebratory manner when it seems the company is scoring points on the Senate committee.  

Shiv should have been able to claim clean hands and clean conscience, having had no knowledge these abuses had gone on because she hadn't been working in the company.  She decides to prove herself as the one able to help the company overcome this challenge and starts by meeting with her former employer and former colleague/lover.  A meeting the Senator kept insisting over and over "never happened" . . . until he outs her when it suits his agenda.   When it's clear more damning testimony is on the way Shiv insists she must be the one to go and try to convince the witness otherwise.  In order to locate the witness and meet with her Shiv turns to the woman she literally just maneuvered right into a big steaming pile in order to avoid the risk of being the head of the company when this mess went public.  An infuriated Rhea can now make sure it's publicly revealed exactly how unclean Shiv's hands are.  Tom's public implication of himself is a huge liability that Shiv is going to have a very hard time dodging.  She's toast when it comes out she sought out the main victim and tried to silence her.

[BlackberryJam]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

Shiv should have been able to claim clean hands and clean conscience, having had no knowledge these abuses had gone on because she hadn't been working in the company.  She decides to prove herself as the one able to help the company overcome this challenge and starts by meeting with her former employer and former colleague/lover.  A meeting the Senator kept insisting over and over "never happened" . . . until he outs her when it suits his agenda.   When it's clear more damning testimony is on the way Shiv insists she must be the one to go and try to convince the witness otherwise.  In order to locate the witness and meet with her Shiv turns to the woman she literally just maneuvered right into a big steaming pile in order to avoid the risk of being the head of the company when this mess went public.  An infuriated Rhea can now make sure it's publicly revealed exactly how unclean Shiv's hands are.  Tom's public implication of himself is a huge liability that Shiv is going to have a very hard time dodging.  She's toast when it comes out she sought out the main victim and tried to silence her.

There is a reason that contact with victims is limited during the investigation stages of these things. Witness intimidation isn't just threatening someone, it's taking action to silence that person from talking, no matter if it's in the guise of 'truth-telling.'

Shiv pulled a full Roy, proving she's just as revolting as the rest of the family. She doesn't get any high horse points from me. I mean, I still love her incredible hair and wardrobe, but she's still dirty.

I kind of love it. Shiv has, by being outside the business, kept her hands clean. Now she's as dirty as Logan. 

[sistermagpie]

15 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

This name may have become popular in the US only in the past few decades, but it is a Russian given name. It’s not as common as Anna or Sofia, but it’s not not rare.

FWIW, the one Kira I know in my life is over 50 (and not Russian). 

15 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

Is Greg supposed to inherit 5 million or 250 million from his grandfather. I think he told Connor 5 million, but at some point I thought he also mentioned giving up 250 million.  I found it odd that Connor scoffed at 5 million yet the previous episode he was so panicked about the play’s lack of revenue he wanted Logsn to invest. How much money could he have possibly invested in that play?

Greg was supposed to inherit 250 million and by continuing to work for Logan he's turning that down. But he think that his grandfather will still leave him 5 million.

[BlackberryJam]

But you can't retire on 5 million. 😉

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Greg was supposed to inherit 250 million and by continuing to work for Logan he's turning that down. But he think that his grandfather will still leave him 5 million.

I thought it was interesting that Greg made the same point a lot of fans made after last episode: it could be several years before Greg received his inheritance, depending how long Ewan lived.

Greg's meltdown over Tom's testimony was an emotional reaction, not a logical one. Greg accepting Ewan's terms and quitting his job at Waystar wouldn't have saved him from any legal repercussions over destroying documents while he was an employee. At most it would have spared him from getting fired as part of a cleanup purge. 

...I don't think there will be any long-term legal consequences for the main group for anything related to the abuse scandal--be it document destruction, witness intimidation, or what have you--as much as Tom and Greg fret about going to prison. Someone may get fired as a result of the scandal (the "sacrifice") and/or the company goes private. And of course, part of the point of Succession is that people like the Roys and their inner circle never face any meaningful punishment for their actions.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Eyes High

[Double A]

On 10/7/2019 at 2:03 PM, chick binewski said:

As regards Rhea - I wasn't 100% sold on her suddenly discovering that Logan lies and is morally challenged. In her much quieter way she has seemed to be the female version of Logan - manipulating the Pierce's to try to make the deal and then doing the same with the Roy family members. It was she who came up with the plan for how to torpedo Shiv and she offered to take care of it with Logan. It is she who has was actively shaping his view of all of his kids so that she would be named CEO. So her sudden horror last night at the lengths Logan would go to? Didn't ring true.

I was so startled by this turn I thought I missed a scene. It started when Rhea naively - which was also out of character - took Kendall's toast advice and she became more stupid by the second. Was that it? Was that public gutting the beginning of Rhea's awakening that she was in the abyss? Otherwise I'm thinking the contract negotiations with Hunter fell apart and she had to go. But can we find out what's up with sister Rose?

[sistermagpie]

20 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Greg's meltdown over Tom's testimony was an emotional reaction, not a logical one. Greg accepting Ewan's terms and quitting his job at Waystar wouldn't have saved him from any legal repercussions over destroying documents while he was an employee. At most it would have spared him from getting fired as part of a cleanup purge. 

Yeah, that was my thinking when talking about Ewant telling Greg to quit to protect him, that Greg's ties to the scandal don't change whether he's working for the company or not. He's still the guy who signed out the documents. Much as Bill is still in danger and knows it despite having left the company.

[RedDelicious]

On 10/7/2019 at 9:32 AM, RealReality said:

Wonder what the status of Ken's relationship is with Naomi?  Maybe she recognized that cringe rap as the cry for help that it was. 

I don't know but I was surprised to see her after what Kendall did to Cousin Nan's bed linens at Tern Haven!

[RealReality]

52 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

I don't know but I was surprised to see her after what Kendall did to Cousin Nan's bed linens at Tern Haven!

LOL.  I'm sure it was all a very "upstairs/downstairs" incident and she never knew. 

Or maybe she did and she has pooped a few beds in her time.  

[northboundtrain]

Getting some quick thoughts in before tonight's finale:

* I'm not prepared to say whether Kendall will be the blood sacrifice, but I did come out of this episode with two takeaways:

1) Logan's utter loathing of Kendall. There's the obvious stuff, like Logan throwing Kendall under the proverbial bus at the hearing (and JS played Kendall's surprise there, so I don't think any of it was an act) and seeming unimpressed by Kendall's stellar performance. But did anyone else catch Logan's reaction when the TV host mentioned Kendall trying to clean things up at Cruises? The camera focused on Logan shooting Kendall a look not of pride, but of contempt. He really can't stand anything that makes Kendall look good.

2) Logan wants Shiv to think he means to sacrifice Kendall. Whether that's what he's actually going to do, who knows. But it was Kendall whom Logan name-checked during that last conversation, so I think it's Kendall he wanted her to be thinking of. Maybe a ploy, maybe not.

* I'm not sure I've ever been more tense watching this show, between Tom's testimony and the hostage-taking. Brilliant writing, directing, acting, and editing.

* Count me in the camp that thinks Greg's acting and/or that he's working behind the scenes to protect himself. I noticed that when the camera focused on Tom during his Greg-related denials, Greg was positioned right behind him but never in focus, always fuzzy. Could just be a fun nod/reminder of their relationship at the very moment Tom was denying it, but it also had the feel of foreshadowing.

* It can't be a coincidence that Roman suggested "marrying" Gerri last episode and then had that OTT reaction to Laird "marrying" Gerri in this one. I'm not sure exactly where Roman/Gerri is headed, but I think we're getting more of it in S3.

Roman also had what was, for me, the funniest moment of the episode -- his reaction to Karl's announcement that he was having a panic attack: "Really? You seem kind of the same."

[FemmyV]

On 10/7/2019 at 8:51 AM, teddysmom said:

I was shocked to see Rhea fold so easily.   Think you're smarter than Shiv?  Yeah you may have won a battle but you def lost the war. 

Rhea's introduction + departure were the only things of the season that felt like off notes to me. She came and went way too swiftly.

Everything else - brilliant.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 10/7/2019 at 11:58 AM, scrb said:

Laird said he'd marry Gerri and Roman was "Ew, Gerri?"  Yeah you're not fooling anyone Roman.

But didn't he actually say the word "Hot" mixed in with all that?  "Gerri?  You'd marry Gerri?  REALLY?  …. Hot."  hahahahah that's what I heard

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 10/7/2019 at 10:49 PM, Athena5217 said:

Many of the characters on this show do not have really common American names. Tom and Greg are common names, but Siobhan, Kendall, Roman, Rhea, and Logan are at least not guaranteed to be in a rack of name keychains.

I assumed that all of the children's names were based in Irish (or Scottish) culture, depending on the ethnicity that Brian Cox is supposed to be playing?  This also includes Conroy.

[scrb]

Yes Logan grew up in Scotland.

In fact in the second season they will go back to Scotland.  He doesn't have particularly fond memories of his home though.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 1/19/2020 at 1:19 PM, scrb said:

Yes Logan grew up in Scotland.

In fact in the second season they will go back to Scotland.  He doesn't have particularly fond memories of his home though.

Thank you!  I'm excited for that.

[Wouldofshouldof]

On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 10:21 AM, preeya said:

IMO, Shiv will fuck over ANYONE to get revenge.

It's not for nothin' her name is Shiv.

[lucindabelle]

I could so retire on $5 million.

true it’s not enough to hit a huge house etc but it would pay off my house, all my debt, and I could easily like on 100-150k a year. 
 

I’ll take it. Plus investors would get me more.

 

i agree with Gregg, he’s golden. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 8/30/2020 at 9:42 PM, lucindabelle said:

I could so retire on $5 million.

Yea, even without factoring in any kind of interest, that is still $100,000 a year for 50 years. Sure you won't be living like the Roy's on that kind of money, but it is better than almost everyone else in the world. 

And I know I am way late in watching this but I'm not sure I entirely get the go private thing. Basically what they are looking to do is get the Turkish guy to give them a shitload of money to buy up every share the Roys don't own so that there is a small enough pool of owners that they don't have to be publicly traded. But is that a loan or are the Turkish guys actually buying the shares. Because if they buy the shares, wouldn't that mean they own the majority of the company? Because Logan probably doesn't own a majority stake right? And if they do have the majority isn't there a risk that they fire Logan?

[jeansheridan]

On 10/7/2019 at 5:42 AM, Eyes High said:

Bill warning Logan he intends to fuck him over if they try to pin it all on him under a veneer of folksy charm and bonhomie was excellent.

Also a nice reminder that smart people work around Logan. He did not hire fools. Gerri, Karolina, even Hugo, are all extremely competent.  Marcia and Caroline are also sharp. Logan never wanted idiots around him.

Frank is my favorite with his classical education and elegance. You can see how he smoothed things over for Logan.

Jessie Armstrong does not seem like a prequel guy or a franchise building guy, but seeing Logan create his empire would be amazing. I honestly wouldn't mind a novel.