S03.E09: Judy Gold / Penn Jillette

[Tara Ariano]

Penn Jillette's wife leaves her secluded, atheistic home in the Nevada desert and swaps places with Judy Gold's fiancée, who lives in a cramped New York City apartment, where her family observes Jewish religious traditions.

[QuelleC]

It's just so weird that it's always the wives who have to move and adapt.  I wonder what would happen if PG moved.  Sounds a lot more interesting.  I think he's open to other ideas but who knows.  Most of the men on this show are asswipes.

Edited July 1, 2014 by QuelleC

[stcroix]

I've loved watching Penn on some of the reality shows and am really looking forward to this show!  I think he'll be open to her ideas as long as she doesn't try to change his religion or lack of. 

[QuelleC]

At least it doesn't look like another "filthy rich and out of touch" show.  I've liked PG in the past too.

[maraleia]

I really enjoyed this episode. All four adults were respectful for the most part and they really took each others suggestions to heart. After hearing Judy talk about her extremely small apartment in her show and on the radio it was interesting to see it instead of image it and boy she wasn't kidding. Penn's house is ridiculous but land is so cheap so I don't blame him. The three boys could've been more cooperative though. I did like that Moxie seemed interested in trying out new things. I loved both Elysa and Emily and how subtle they were when they introduced the new rules.

[Tess23]

Seeing the contrast between the size of the two homes was interesting. My daughter lives in NYC and I just can't get over how tiny the apartments are. Penn's wife (sorry, I forgot her name) did a great job transforming Judy's cramped bedroom into an office/bedroom combo.

 

Penn was rude and immature about religion--what a horrible example for his own children in terms of tolerance and acceptance of others. And way to be a whiner about exercise--again, fail on being a good example for his kids. I fell asleep during his Vegas show--now I wish I wouldn't have wasted the money on a ticket. Not impressed.

 

I enjoyed the Gold family and thought they had pretty typical teenage boys. Sometimes boys that age just need some not-so-subtle reminders about manners and the other niceties of life. It was cute how they liked their new space.

[Maharincess]

I'm an atheist and wouldn't really be thrilled with somebody pushing their religion on me but I couldn't believe how Penn allowed his kids to mock the other moms (blanking on her name) religion during her dinner.

I don't believe in god at all but I have respect for those who do. Being an atheist isn't about mocking and belittling others beliefs. I would like respect for the fact that I don't believe but to get that respect I also give it.

He gives atheists a bad name with that shit and people already think we're immoral, evil satan worshipers.

I liked Penn until this episode.

I mean no offense but I will never understand why anybody would voluntarily live in New York. The tiny, cramped ridiculously priced apartments where you're on top of your neighbors and you go outside and its so loud and dirty and crowded.

I've been there and couldn't leave fast enough.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Maharincess

[Hpmec]

Agree that Penn behaved like an ass regarding Elysa's religious observance. Would not have killed him to point out to the kids that even though they don't share her beliefs, they should be tolerant of them in her presence. Instead, he sent the message that religion and those who practice it are a joke. I thought Elysa handled it pretty well, although I could tell she was offended.

I liked all of the women and the kids. Neither family was terribly dysfunctional. The star of the show was Penn's bizarre house.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Hpmec

[Tara Ariano]

Here's what Sarah and I had to say about the episode!

[Ffiferoo]

Elysa and Emily were both awesome in this episode.  I've never watched Celebrity Wife Swap before, but after many, many regular Wife Swap episodes in the past, it was super nice to see wives who tried to make rule-changes that were reasonable and quite helpful - I guess it also helps that they had two families that are relatively easy-going and open to making an effort, but it was refreshing to see that.  

 

I'm a big fan of Penn (which is why I watched this episode), and I was definitely put off by the way he was encouraging his kids' behavior at Shabbos dinner.  Thinking about it further, based on the types of things he says and writes frequently, I think his stance is generally that religion as a whole is counterproductive to the point of sometimes being destructive, and so he thinks arguing about it and being outspoken is a positive thing if it'll encourage people to question their beliefs.  He's also said that he feels that religious people should do the same, and that he thinks it doesn't make sense when people say they don't want to push their beliefs on others, especially if they follow a religion that assumes nonbelievers will suffer after they die.  All that said, he doesn't seem to be able to turn it off when he's with someone who is simply trying to share her culture and beliefs (and who comes from a religion that certainly doesn't evangelize), so he didn't stop himself from trying to start an argument.  It sets a bad example for his kids, who need to learn that in polite society we act differently in mixed company, but it doesn't necessarily seem like he feels that way, or is teaching them that, either.  

 

One thing I'm surprised about is something that didn't make it onto the show, but that Penn has mentioned several times on his podcast since filming the episode, which is that at one point Zolten got right into the camera and said, "I'm not a Jew!"  Probably for the best, considering how they already came off without a pointed comment like that, but at least it seems like the editing wasn't trying to make anyone look too bad (he also mentioned that Z didn't take too well to having the cameras around and was pretty uncomfortable).  I think in general it seems like he needs to work on the idea of sometimes "forcing" kids to do things they don't immediately want to do, so they'll get to a point where they have enough background knowledge and experience to make an educated decision about what they like.  Just because he hates physical activity doesn't mean he should get a free pass on encouraging his kids.  

[Etta Place]

I don't know what would have been so difficult about Penn taking the kids aside before that dinner and telling them what was going to happen in a general way. And to say that you don't have to like it, or agree, or even listen to it, but you have to at least sit there with your mouths shut until it's over. I was going to say that then they could have a discussion about it while they were eating ... but then I remembered Penn obnoxiously interrupting Elisa every time she tried to explain what she had been doing, so obviously not.

 

Also, those kids know they upset Elisa, or at least Moxie does. You could tell when she whispered to Penn her question about why Elisa had had a napkin on her head. Which then Penn trumpeted for maximum comic/belittling effect, of course.

[Gregg247]

I've never seen this show before, and only watched this episode because I like both Penn and Judy from other shows I've seen them on.

 

Like Penn, I'm not a sports guy or a gym-rat, but there's a BIG difference between being a sports fanatic and teaching a kid to ride a bike, or throw a ball in the backyard, or swim in a pool.  That's part of being a kid!  Come on, Penn, you can take 20 minutes a day out of your "reading chamber" to kick a ball around that enormous back-40 acres you've got.  Also, teach your kids to at least shut-up and be respectful when a guest in your home says something you may not (shocker!) agree with.

 

Judy seemed a lot more easy-going than I would have expected, for some reason.  I think that laissez-faire parenting method would work better in a bigger home than that 300 sq. foot shoebox they were living in.  Man, that was a tight space for 4 rambunctious people!  I liked how Penn's wife was able to completely transform Judy's bedroom into a bedroom/office, and how the entire family enjoyed having their meals together for a change.  Although I got the impression that they always had their religious meal together on Friday nights, this way, they could have just regular meals together, too, without much change to their daily routines.

[stcroix]

A fan of Penns, but I was disappointed in his parenting skills.  He seems like an overgrown smiling yet hostile child.  HE doesn't like sports therefore he encourages his children to have this attitude, especially his son, who I found to be a rude little entitled kid.  I think I read somewhere that Penn was kidded as a child for being overweight and non athletic?  If so, then you'd think he'd do everything he could to keep his children from that embarrassment.  My son was non athletic and he's encouraged his little son to try different sports from karate to basketball hoping to see if there is something the child can do since sports build character and learning to cooperate and work with a team.  If his child shows no aptitude or interest he moves on to something else to see if that will be 'his thing' with no pressure.  At least let the kid give things in life a try-- especially something simple like riding a bicycle!  It seemed like Penn was encouraging him to kick the evil bicycle's frame :(   'Attaboy, just like dad!' (which makes dad feel that HE'S ok...)  I dunno, I lost some respect for Penn watching this. 

[QuelleC]

Wow.  I forgot to watch the show but I don't think I'll even bother now.  I appreciate the thoughtful posters here for filling me in.  It's probably going to be an Unpopular Opinion but something happens to people who become rich assholes.  I get it that's going to be inherent in a show called CELEBRITY wise swap.  I was hoping for something a little different here, though because Penn has said a few interesting things in the past (it's been a while) and I was looking forward to an episode that would go for something different than "my castle is better than your castle  What do you mean you don't live in a castle"..  Yikes.  I'd be surprised if this show is renewed since most people come off looking bad.  I have to wonder at their motives to appear and put their snotty kids on camera.  The only kid I've liked is Dweezil's stepdaughter who finally got a phone.My son has been well aware of my atheism if only because we really never discussed religion other than reading bible stories as literature. He chose to attend church with christian friends a few times as a kid and certainly wouldn't feel he's better than anyone else.  But the Hobby Lobby decision weighs heavily on my mind right now with the wave of zealots trying to impose their ideology on the rest of us.  Actually since the 80's so I get Penn's idea that religion can be destructive. 

[Padma]

A fan of Penns, but I was disappointed in his parenting skills.  He seems like an overgrown smiling yet hostile child.  HE doesn't like sports therefore he encourages his children to have this attitude, especially his son, who I found to be a rude little entitled kid.

I've been a fan, too. Loved his live show when he and Teller came to town a few years back. And I don't have religious identification either.

 

That said, I don't feel much of a fan after seeing him as a parent. "Smiling yet hostile" is a perfect description. I expected him to be more open-minded and tolerant since one of his biggest criticisms of religion (which I actually don't think he knows a lot about--not even Christianity or Judaism, the ones most common here) is that it foster intolerance. It was very sad to see his children being indulged in bigotry and rudeness. (And when you teach kids that religious beliefs are bad and its okay to be disrespectful when someone's religious, how far is it from that to "I hate Jews (Christians, Moslems, etc.)"?

 

Kids don't have the sophistication that adults do. I was disappointed that his atheism wasn't accompanied by strong emphasis on mutual respect, appreciation for others' culture if not agreeing with their faith, and a general feeling of equality, not superiority.

 

I guess I don't like him as much as I thought.

[Kat20]

Quelle, not sure if you saw the episode with Andy Dick and Lorenzo Lamas, but all of their daughters were pretty nice and respectful. Also, the kids of Tracy Gold and Carnie Wilson were all pretty nice. Lifetime frequently airs episodes.

[backformore]

Kids don't have the sophistication that adults do. I was disappointed that his atheism wasn't accompanied by strong emphasis on mutual respect, appreciation for others' culture if not agreeing with their faith, and a general feeling of equality, not superiority.

I guess I don't like him as much as I thought.

 

I remember when Penn was on Celebrity Apprentice. The way I recall it,  Clay Aiken said he was being condescending toward someone  (he was).  Penn responded by feeling insulted and insisting "I"m not condescending, I'm arrogant." 

That seems to be typical of the way Penn relates to others. 

But I guess this show gave a glimpse that his arrogance is born out of insecurity.  He was never good at sports, so he can't stand to have his kids even try sports.    Intellectual pursuits are so much more important, so his kids don't ride bikes or go outside, or even do arts and crafts.     His kids are now just imitating his own rebellion against society.  It will be interesting when his kids go through their rebellious teenage years and start rebelling aginst HIM.   

 

They must have had a team in to re-do Judy's room.   I would have added a rule about what days and times the kids can have friends over, because having all those kids over, wrestling and jumping around, would drive most parents nuts.    The "quilt museum"  was a ridiculous choioce  for teenage boys, though.  

[Megan in Seattle]

Penn did say on his podcast that the big conflict was supposed to be that one couple was the first-ever same-sex couple on the show. Of course, once they started filming, the producers realized that nobody was at all bothered by that, so they had to spend the week amping up the religious differences. So some of what bugged you may have been somewhat hastily added. I tend to be sympathetic to Penn (love Judy Gold, too), but maybe I'll give this one a miss.

[tribeca]

Penn did say on his podcast that the big conflict was supposed to be that one couple was the first-ever same-sex couple on the show. Of course, once they started filming, the producers realized that nobody was at all bothered by that, so they had to spend the week amping up the religious differences. So some of what bugged you may have been somewhat hastily added. I tend to be sympathetic to Penn (love Judy Gold, too), but maybe I'll give this one a miss.

I seem to remember same sex couple on the regular Wife Swap or are they just talking Celebrity edition??

[kitten59]

Congrats on raising a couple of cretins, Penn.

[EtheltoTillie]

I was really turned off by Penn's rudeness also, and worse, his allowing the kids to be rude.  I was always a fan of his, and I share his feelings about religion, but this makes me reconsider.  I started out the episode thinking his kids were more polite, as they were helping their mother, and they seemed more well-behaved in contrast to the chaotic scenes of the Gold family shown at the beginning.  Maybe if the mother had been there, she would have enforced respectful behavior.  God knows (heh heh), my husband and I have quietly suffered through our share of friends' kids' bar mitzvahs. 

 

What I found surprising also is Penn's extreme antipathy to physical activity.  Penn is not completely inept.  He attended the Ringling Bros. clown college.  He is an expert juggler, something that takes extraordinary hand-eye coordination to do at the professional level, and he had to have spent the proverbial 10,000 hours to master the skill.  He must have taken up this effort to overcome what he perceived as his inadequacies.

 

Well, anyway, this show always makes for drama.  One of my favorite episodes was the one with Gilbert Gotfried, who is believed to be a complete ass (I'm a huge fan of his) and Robin Thicke.  Gilbert was really the sweetest guy underneath his crass exterior.

[CousinAmy]

 

Gilbert Gotfried, who is believed to be a complete ass (I'm a huge fan of his) and Robin Thicke.  Gilbert was really the sweetest guy underneath his crass exterior.

Robin Thicke or Alan Thicke? 

[EtheltoTillie]

Robin Thicke or Alan Thicke? 

Oops, it was Alan Thicke.  It was dad, not son.  Thanks for reminding me.  BTW, he was kind of a tool also.

Edited July 14, 2014 by GussieK

[gigi1701]

I will say, I have an opposite view than most about the religion thing. My mother was deeply traumatized by the Catholic Church, I was forbidden to go inside of a Catholic Church as a child. It is one thing to create a nice family tradition, light a candle, have a special food, talk about what you liked about your day, there are so many ways to bring a family time into a meal without gibbering on with a napkin on your head.

Penn's family has no connection to such an act, plus he may have a real reason to reject religion, a deeper more painful one. So to insist that that house rule is that everyone endure your religious ceremony with no idea what is going on, is as rude as Penn letting the insults happen during the meal. Imagine if the house rules for the Jewish household was that they HAD to eat pork! (though I would feel their pain, not for religious reasons, but I have a pet mini pig, no pork is ever in this house!!)

I think her goal was a worthy one, the execution was a major fail. The real goal, at least so it seemed for that ceremony is to create a family bond, and because it had to be such a narrow way to express it, the whole beauty of a personal family tradition to create that bond just got over looked because forcing someone to have a dinner that is so utterly foreign to them is as much a slap in the face as forcing someone to eat something taboo because in your religion you eat that item once a week.

[CousinAmy]

I think he enjoyed being snarky, and it was very rude to allow the children to mock their guest. No one said they had to pray with her. All they had to do was be polite and shut up. 

 

They were not toddlers who couldn't hold in a case of the giggles. They were old enough to practice some self-control. 

[Padma]

I think he enjoyed being snarky, and it was very rude to allow the children to mock their guest. No one said they had to pray with her. All they had to do was be polite and shut up.

 

This was the point that bugged me, too. It would have been different if she'd been telling them, "You have to do this" or "This is the 'right' way to think and believe!"  But if "accepting and appreciating differences" would feel too hypocritical, then "polite and respectful silence" is best. I could see Penn being proud of his children for being rude and judgmental of people who don't think as they do. I don't see how this is any improvement from the intolerance and bigotry of some religions.

 

Oh, and I wish someone had mentioned clown school! Maybe he didn't play football and baseball, but that's a -whole- lot of practice and commitment to develop a physical skill.  I'm surprised he wouldn't want his children to have opportunities to develop as "all round" human beings, and to use whatever natural skills they have. Who knows? His son may be a gifted athlete who doesn't care at all about books. What then?  Be the parent who forces him to read and forbids him from ever playing football? Nice hypocrisy in that case, Dad.

[SecretHaze]

I was really turned off by Penn's rudeness also, and worse, his allowing the kids to be rude.  I was always a fan of his, and I share his feelings about religion, but this makes me reconsider.

 

I take this show with a huge grain of salt, and wouldn't necessarily let it determine my feelings for any of the participants, because most likely all the conflicts were highly played up by the producers. The tagline for this episode was "A religious comedian swaps wives with an atheist magician." The religious differences were the key element for trying to create some drama, and while I'm sure they reflect the participants' views in a general sense, I wouldn't doubt that they were told to play it up for maximum effect.  In normal life, Judy's wife wouldn't go over to an atheist's house and try to hold a Shabbat supper.  And I wager that Penn probably isn't quite as abrasive to religious people (to their faces anyway) in normal life either.   Being an atheist and an intellectual, anti-sports guy is part of Penn's "brand" so I think all those qualities were just amped up for the purposes of the show. After all, having 2 nice couples who are completely respectful of each other's beliefs and lifestyles wouldn't make much of a reality show, would it? 

[CousinAmy]

His reaction didn't bother me as much as the children's. He could have been joking, but were they? It was really uncalled for.

[Ipse Dixit]

I'd never heard of Judy Gold until I saw her on some truTV's "World's Dumbest" clip shows, and really enjoyed her wittiness there (still do. Guilty pleasure, so sue me.  Heh-heh).

 

That said, it was sad to see Judy upclose and IRL in this - and yeah, I know it's not really real.  Wouldn't a comedian be able to see the uselessness in yelling at her sons as pretty much her default mode of communication?   Same with her bickering more than the two boys, combined (which she acknowledged to be true).

 

I don't know how long Elysa's been in Judy's life, and I'm not looking down my nose at broken homes and reblended families.  They happen.  But the boys are from another marriage, and unless I totally mis-took Judy's riff, the split with their other mom was bitter enough that Judy's not supposed to mention the woman's name in her performances.  OK, this wasn't part of the show, so it may not be valid as conversation, if so, mods, swat me and I won't repeat the bad behavior..

 

My point is:  Made me sad to see Judy in her native habitat.  I keep thinking about the song, "Tears Of A Clown."   Judy's added to the laughter in my life, would like to think she had more of that in her own. 

[hatchetgirl]

My in laws are jehovah witnessea and I'm a happy atheist. I'm very respectful to them and at times, been forced to be more respectful than I'd want to be.

So from this context I was think, yes Penn, it is your home and you could have told production, no religion. Instead, at the meal with her with the napkin going into why they do this and that. My home, my rules. I won't start showing you pictures of Halloween, you can stop sending me the WatchTower!