Designing Women - General Discussion

[Bastet]

39 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

I dunno, The Golden Girls did well at the Emmys.

An exception, not the rule.  Same with Cagney & Lacey, where the two lead actors took turns winning.  And Candice Bergen won so many times for Murphy Brown she took herself out of consideration. 

These are noteworthy examples that spring immediately to mind because they're, well, noteworthy in the overall pattern of the Emmys towards programming by and about women, a record that's even worse with respect to overtly feminist programming.

[Hiyo]

If you have enough examples of exceptions, are they really exceptions anymore?

There are lots of shows people could list that were, in their minds, unfairly ignored by various academies. Not saying that there isn't discrimination against shows by women, but in the case of Designing Women, I'm not that was the reason for them not winning an award.

[Bastet]

27 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

If you have enough examples of exceptions, are they really exceptions anymore?

No, that's not how rattling off the short list of exceptions that readily spring to mind over the decades of television history works; what it does is highlight the atypical status of those on that list.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Bastet

[Hiyo]

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Kohola3]

I never once put a Christmas tree skirt under my tree without hearing Bernice declare "I like to never got this thing on" when she waltzed in wearing the one Mary Jo gave her.

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

I never once put a Christmas tree skirt under my tree without hearing Bernice declare "I like to never got this thing on" when she waltzed in wearing the one Mary Jo gave her.

Same here!  I just watched that episode last night.  It's too sentimental for me overall, but it has moments I love.  Many of them involving Bernice.  I also like when Charlene tells Dolly Parton she hopes Olivia grows up to be just like her: "As far as I'm concerned, Miss Parton, you're the greatest hick who ever lived."

And I like the story behind the Minnie Ward character.  Shortly before Linda wrote the episode, Meshach Taylor brought his 100+ -year-old grandma to the set on her birthday (I think it was her 106th; she lived to 114).  Linda was so taken by the stories she told and the breadth of American history they covered, she decided to have the characters experience a similar event, and juxtaposing it with a baby being born on the first day of the last decade of the entire 20th century was the perfect way to do it.

I also watched "The Mistress" and Delta is just on fire with Suzanne's diet-induced crankiness.  "I have better things to do with my time than sitting around waiting for some concubine to fall out of bed" is killer.  I also love the "I guess she knew"/"Well, I guess she didn't know" bit.  And when she says she hates men who think they can have their cake and eat it too - as Mary Jo and Julia are passing cake back and forth while Suzanne spreads jelly on a rice cake - and then says, "In fact, I just hate people who eat cake."

Charlene's horrified "Julia!" when Julia tells Gabby she finds her lazy, horny, and dumb got me thinking how much I love the way she says Julia's name in situations like that, and then I realized I equally love the way she says Mary Jo and Suzanne's names when she's shocked by something they say, too.

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

I also watched "The Mistress" and Delta is just on fire with Suzanne's diet-induced crankiness.  "I have better things to do with my time than sitting around waiting for some concubine to fall out of bed" is killer.  I also love the "I guess she knew"/"Well, I guess she didn't know" bit.  And when she says she hates men who think they can have their cake and eat it too - as Mary Jo and Julia are passing cake back and forth while Suzanne spreads jelly on a rice cake - and then says, "In fact, I just hate people who eat cake."

 

I loved it when Suzanne would be dieting (again) and cranky.

[Bastet]

22 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

I loved it when Suzanne would be dieting (again) and cranky.

"Oh, alright!  HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, LOIS AND SHIMMY!"

[JAYJAY1979]

I loved the pep talk Charlene gave Julia, who had stage fright.  It was a nice role reversal that we barely saw.  

 

[Lois Sandborne]

On 4/12/2020 at 4:09 PM, Bastet said:

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, LOIS AND SHIMMY!"

This is one of those bits of dialog that's lodged in my brain and comes tumbling out at odd times.

I've never thought about a ranking but I'm pretty sure "The Mistress" is one of my favorite episodes. It's just full of so many small brilliant things, from everything that's been mentioned, to the disdainful way Suzanne spreads jam on a rice cake, to Mary Jo using the shorthand of "Suck candy!" when Suzanne's attitude got out of control, to Anthony's face and reply of "No, but thank you very much for asking," when Gaby propositions him, to the masterful plot subversion and the melodramatic way Louise Pollard runs out of the room yelling "I kneeeew!"

That one and "Tornado Watch" (with the Lois and Shimmy moment) would probably be in my top 5. So maybe there is something to that Suzanne dieting thing.

[Bastet]

I think Suzanne is at her hypoglycemic rage best in "Anthony's Graduation".  I love "I am about this close from getting in a tower and hurting some people", "Good lord, why'd they even pick you?" when Anthony explains how worried he is about his commencement speech, and "Julia, just don't mess with me, okay; I have PMS, I'm hungry, and I'm armed."

But my absolute favorite is this, when she finds out Charlene ate her rice cakes:  You know, it's funny to me that you people can eat anything in the world - cookies, bread, potato chips, entire sides of beef.  I, on the other hand, have been reduced to a couple of little pieces of crumpled rice, stuck together by some tasteless, low-cal fish saliva, and yet, for some reason, you feel compelled to come over here and chow down on it.

Speaking of Suzanne's dieting episodes, I have no idea how anyone got through the filming of her invisible baton routine in "La Place Sans Souci" without falling to the floor in laughter.

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Speaking of Suzanne's dieting episodes, I have no idea how anyone got through the filming of her invisible baton routine in "La Place Sans Souci" without falling to the floor in laughter.

Pronounced: la place sans suckey. She also pronounced La Leche as la leakie.  Such a piece of work!

[Taryn74]

39 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Pronounced: la place sans suckey. She also pronounced La Leche as la leakie.  Such a piece of work!

Speaking of La Leche, the episode where she put Charlene's expressed milk in  her coffee.............OMG, I'm dying just thinking about it. The panicked look on her face when she realized what it was.....I CERTAINLY DIDN'T DRINK IT!.........her spitting in the sink as soon as Charlene went upstairs..........LOLOLOL

[Bastet]

12 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

Speaking of La Leche, the episode where she put Charlene's expressed milk in  her coffee.............OMG, I'm dying just thinking about it. The panicked look on her face when she realized what it was.....I CERTAINLY DIDN'T DRINK IT!.........her spitting in the sink as soon as Charlene went upstairs..........LOLOLOL

"What do you think I am, some kind of pervert?!"

I also crack up when she gets all riled up about public breastfeeding:  It's an epidemic!  Everywhere I go, there are women just whipping themselves out and acting like public filling stations.  They act like just because there's a baby attached, it's not a breast anymore.  Can you imagine if I unleashed one of these things outdoors?  All hell would break loose.

[Taryn74]

1 minute ago, Bastet said:

Can you imagine if I unleashed one of these things outdoors?  All hell would break loose.

Oh dear sweet lord, I had forgotten about that line. I am about to cry trying not to literally LOL right now (hubby is asleep).

[Kohola3]

There were truly some classic lines all throughout the run.  Julia's deliberate delivery of "I afraid I'm going to need your name" is one that comes to mind. 

And the look on poor Anthony's face every time he walked into some "girly" conversation.  They really did torture him sometimes.

[Kohola3]

"A $600 orange".  I am going to have to remember that the next time I go to buy a car.

[Bastet]

Season five is uneven - inevitable, since Linda's attention was on Evening Shade and Suzanne's parts had to be written so they could be excised or redistributed if Delta wasn't available - but "Blame It On New Orleans" plays like an old-school episode.  I love the disastrous presentation, with Julia surrounded by hungover Charlene, still drinking Suzanne, and morose Mary Jo -- not to mention a room full of podiatrists.

And then the dueling wigs, when Suzanne doesn't believe the drag performer is a man. 

And, of course:  Hey, hey, New Orleans.  I am Julia Sugarbaker.  I'm about to go sleep in Anthony Bouvier's room.  I am white, he is black.  We are not engaged.  And he is significantly younger than I am.  So put that in your étouffée and choke on it!

Edited April 17, 2020 by Bastet

[lurkerbee]

“It’s amazing, isn’t it? Most of the time she goes around without the sense God gave a goose. But look at her. I mean, one crisis, and she’s Scarlett O’Hara.”

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, lurkerbee said:

“It’s amazing, isn’t it? Most of the time she goes around without the sense God gave a goose. But look at her. I mean, one crisis, and she’s Scarlett O’Hara.”

I love that!  That's one of the lines the writers re-use in season five (when Reese dies), but only the "one crisis and she's Scarlett O'Hara" part.  It's only funny with the "without the sense God gave a goose" part first.  I understand the symmetry in having Charlene again observe that in a crisis, Suzanne turns into Scarlett O'Hara, since both times involved her jumping in to cover the logistics when Julia isn't emotionally capable of doing it.  But it's just not as good the second time around.

[Kohola3]

Another Suzanne nugget about purchasing a computer:  "Why would you spend good money to buy something that's not even alive but that could still get sick".

Damn, she had the greatest lines.

[Kohola3]

"I don't care what anybody says, I say the MAN should HAVE to KILL the BUG".

I use that one all of the time!

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

"I don't care what anybody says, I say the MAN should HAVE to KILL the BUG".

I use that one all of the time!

That's another one where I get a little irritated when the season five writers borrow an early line.  When there's a mouse in the office, and she says, "The man should have to kill the mouse!" it just makes me miss the context of the original scene.

[Queena]

On 4/9/2020 at 5:03 PM, Bastet said:

"The Rowdy Girls" is another one where I have to just accept that the situation setting the stage for hilarious hijinks would never have actually happened to begin with:  When Suzanne showed up covered in black make-up, Julia would have hog tied her and shoved her in a closet rather than just warning her not to get on stage with them, not to mention letting her go out there with Anthony.  The talent show was a competition (and fundraiser of some sort?) among design firms, so both acts represent Sugarbaker's; Julia wouldn't want the bad publicity of one of the firm's partners going on stage in blackface (especially after she promised the local NAACP chapter it wouldn't happen)!

"Suzanne, Dustin Hoffman would never play Martin Luther King; that part would go to a black actor."
"Well, I think that's racist."

I also watched the episode where Mary Jo pretends - to impress her snooty classmate Belva - the grand mansion they're decorating is her home, a home to which Anthony crawls after escaping Suzanne's house where he's about to be injected with collagen, and the homeowners come home a day early to find this motley crew.  Julia's explanation cracks me up:  "I'm terribly sorry.  Against billion to one odds, I seem to have three friends who have lost their minds at the exact same time."

I love in the episode with Charlene's baby shower when she describes running into people who haven't seen her since the wedding:  "I have never seen so many people mentally counting to nine."

In case anyone doesn't know/remember this little bit of DW trivia:  Jean Smart found out she was pregnant while filming the episode in which Charlene and Bill get married, and thought, "Boy, they married her off just in time."

Some how, and I don't know how, but Suzanne in Black face wasn't that offensive, not at all. I don't know if it's because Delta Burke meant no harm, and I don't think that Suzanne would have meant harm. 

 

 

I bought Dixie Carter's book and I was so disappointed to find lessons on dieting and other things. She came off judgemental. 

 

Linda Bloodworth needs another series. Stat! 

[annzeepark914]

7 minutes ago, Queena said:

I bought Dixie Carter's book and I was so disappointed to find lessons on dieting and other things. She came off judgemental. 

 

Linda Bloodworth needs another series. Stat! 

Linda Bloodworth is an excellent writer for mature women so let's hope she can get another series with such females. I understand she had another one ready to go but that creep Les Moonves wasn't interested.

That's surprising re: Dixie Carter's book. But then, Dixie was not at all like "Julia" so maybe it shouldn't be.

 

 

[Queena]

1 minute ago, annzeepark914 said:

Linda Bloodworth is an excellent writer for mature women so let's hope she can get another series with such females. I understand she had another one ready to go but that creep Les Moonves wasn't interested.

That's surprising re: Dixie Carter's book. But then, Dixie was not at all like "Julia" so maybe it shouldn't be.

 

 

I didn't know that she wasn't Julia. Her and Kelsey Grammer do very good jobs at saying things that they may not agree with. 

 

There's supposed to be a DW reboot, but nothing else has been said. 

[mmecorday]

Quote

Season five is uneven - inevitable, since Linda's attention was on Evening Shade and Suzanne's parts had to be written so they could be excised or redistributed if Delta wasn't available - but "Blame It On New Orleans" plays like an old-school episode.  I love the disastrous presentation, with Julia surrounded by hungover Charlene, still drinking Suzanne, and morose Mary Jo -- not to mention a room full of podiatrists.

I'm going to have to watch this one tonight! I only have the first five seasons on DVD because I hated the ones after Delta Burke's departure.

[Kohola3]

On 5/1/2020 at 1:10 PM, mmecorday said:

I only have the first five seasons on DVD because I hated the ones after Delta Burke's departure.

Gosh, I guess I must have quit watching in season six as well.  I don't remember doing that at the time but now that those are the reruns that are on, I see why.  I don't know who I dislike more, Carlene or Allison.  What a mess once Charlene and Suzanne were gone.  The original four were such a wonderful team.  And don't get me started on Dwayne Dobber.  Ugh.

I wonder by Hal Holbrook left the show.

[Jaded]

17 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Gosh, I guess I must have quit watching in season six as well.  I don't remember doing that at the time but now that those are the reruns that are on, I see why.  I don't know who I dislike more, Carlene or Allison.  What a mess once Charlene and Suzanne were gone.  The original four were such a wonderful team.  And don't get me started on Dwayne Dobber.  Ugh.

I wonder by Hal Holbrook left the show.

It looks like Hal left the show to do Evening Shade which was also a Bloodworth/Thomason show that began airing in 1990. 

I admit to kinda liking Judith Ivey's character "BJ" Poteet from the final season. I always wondered what it would have been like if Alison had never been on the show and "BJ" had begun as a character in season six.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Jaded

[Kohola3]

17 minutes ago, Jaded said:

It looks like Hal left the show to do Evening Shade which was also a Bloodworth/Thomason show that began airing in 1990. 

Oh, I forgot about that one.  

I DVR DW to watch during breakfast or lunch so I will probably do that as long as I can stand it. I don't know if I can hold out long enough to see Judith Ivey but I've always liked her so I will try.

[Taryn74]

4 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

The original four were such a wonderful team. 

Agreed.

Every time I want to complain about some of my favorite shows ending before I'm ready for them to, I remember what it's like to WISH my favorite show had ended before it died such a horrible, painful, cringey death. Heh.

[Bastet]

If I ever come across the season six and seven DVDs really cheap (or if the show airs on a station I get), I'll re-watch those seasons, because I haven't seen them since they aired (I only bought through season five on DVD).  They were nowhere near as good, but I remember liking the episode about the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings and "Carlene's Apartment", and I liked B.J. (because I love Judith Ivey).  Sometimes when I hate later seasons of a show at the time, when the superior seasons that preceded them are so fresh in my mind, I'm more receptive to them years later upon re-watch.

The quality is already visibly slipping in season five, with Linda's attention on Evening Shade's first season (and with Delta's ability to perform so unpredictable that Suzanne's role was minimized in case her lines had to be cut out or redistributed on the fly), but it still has great moments, and even great episodes.  Because, while the writing was different, you still had the camaraderie and chemistry to bump up weaker scripts.  In season six and seven, I was always focused on what (namely, who) was missing, but all this time removed from that experience I might find more to like in what's there.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

If I ever come across the season six and seven DVDs really cheap (or if the show airs on a station I get), I'll re-watch those seasons, because I haven't seen them since they aired (I only bought through season five on DVD). 

Not sure about your access but Antenna TV is running them in the middle of the night. I DVR them each night, there are 2 episodes Monday through Friday.  They just got into season 6 which was a shock. I guess I must have bailed out by then because I don't remember much about these. Must have deliberately forgotten them because they were so bad!

[ButterQueen]

Where are you watching this?

[Kohola3]

2 minutes ago, ButterQueen said:

Where are you watching this?

A station called Antenna TV. It's part of my basic cable package. It's on in the middle of the night.

[ButterQueen]

1 minute ago, Kohola3 said:

A station called Antenna TV. It's part of my basic cable package. It's on in the middle of the night.

Thank you.  I don’t get that.

[Kohola3]

Oh, my heavens Season 6 is just abysmal.  Now I know why I never watched them when they were broadcast and I can only make it through one out of three at this point and that's fast-forwarding through most of the third one.  I can't believe Dixie Carter stuck with it.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

I can't believe Dixie Carter stuck with it.

I can; she loved to work, and she loved to get paid.  She was doing cabaret in a San Francisco hotel when Linda called her and said she wanted to put her in a TV show.  She was very matter of fact about loving - and spending - the different stratosphere of money the show brought her (and sitcoms are an actor's dream in terms of money made vs. hours worked), so I'm not surprised she was in it until cancellation. 

[Queena]

I loved season 6, season 7 not so much. 

[WhitneyWhit]

Season six was indeed a nightmare but it's actually the show's highest rated season. Go figure.

I think the biggest mistake they made with the new characters was trying to make them carbon copies of the characters they were replacing. Alison was supposed to be the new Suzanne but she did not have nearly the charm that Suzanne had. I don't know if it was the writing or an acting choice by Julia Duffy, but I couldn't find anything likable about Alison, she just came across as mean and not someone I enjoyed watching. Carlene was annoying at first but thankfully they calmed her down and she became much more tolerable as season six went on. I'm mixed on BJ, I liked her overall but between her, Julia, and season seven Mary Jo always ranting about something, it was like having three Julias, it was a bit much. 

However, even though I dislike seasons six and seven immensely, season six did give me one of my favorite episodes: "Julia and Mary Jo Get Stuck Under A Bed". It was the episode that felt closest to earlier season and just overall hilarious. "Jellies of the world" "Oh Chuck, Oh Chuck, Oh Chuck", just hilarious from beginning to end. 

[Kohola3]

I am struggling to get through the last two seasons on my DVR.  I find myself deleting most after a few minutes.  Just a totally different feel and absolutely ridiculous ideas - "obnoxious personality disorder"?  Charlene had a sweet naivete while Carlene is portrayed as a blithering idiot.  Anthony and the ridiculous girlfriends and then the out-of-the-blue wife?  

Nope, I think I'll just delete them all and wait for the first few years to roll back around - if they do.  Not sure if Antenna will keep them rolling or not.

[Taryn74]

3 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Charlene had a sweet naivete while Carlene is portrayed as a blithering idiot.

Totally agree. I don't know if you're an X-Files fan, but the two of them remind me of the difference between Mulder and Monica Reyes. Mulder always had such an earnestness about his beliefs that you could at least see where he was coming from even on his more off-the-wall theories, while Monica (who was brought in as a "believer" to someone else's "skeptic" later in the show) just seemed like she was tossing out the most bizarre things she could think of willy nilly, whether she had any justification for believing them or not. Fans called her Moronica for a reason, heh.

[ljenkins782]

On 4/24/2020 at 8:20 PM, Queena said:

I didn't know that she wasn't Julia. Her and Kelsey Grammer do very good jobs at saying things that they may not agree with. 

There's supposed to be a DW reboot, but nothing else has been said. 

Ugh, hard pass on a reboot.

As for Dixie, I don't know where I watched this interview but I think it was with Linda Bloodworth-Thomason and the impression I walked away with was that Dixie was far closer to the Suzanne character IRL than the Julia character. A bit shallow and materialistic, but charming. Makes her portrayal of Julia all the more impressive.

Quote

And the look on poor Anthony's face every time he walked into some "girly" conversation.  They really did torture him sometimes.

One of the most amusing Anthony moments for me is a very tiny segment of the episode where they have that really crazy client. Anthony has been driving him around and explains that they had to go through the car wash "and then we had to have our pictures made with everyone who worked there." Charlene asks why and the face Anthony makes while shrugging makes me laugh out loud. He does it again when the guy gives him a few pieces from "my personal game of Clue" as a reward for something. Anthony was truly long-suffering, between Suzanne, Bernice, crazy clients, etc., but he handled it quite gracefully.

[annzeepark914]

I recall reading that Linda had to promise a singing opportunity for Dixie each time "Julia" had to rail away about a liberal cause (since Dixie did not share those beliefs). I only sat through her singing one time. After that ear shattering experience, I knew I had to hit the mute button. 

I remember that wonderful actor who played the eccentric wealthy client (who gave Anthony some pieces from Clue). Loved that fellow.

[lurkerbee]

9 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

I am struggling to get through the last two seasons on my DVR.  I find myself deleting most after a few minutes.  Just a totally different feel and absolutely ridiculous ideas - "obnoxious personality disorder"?  Charlene had a sweet naivete while Carlene is portrayed as a blithering idiot.  Anthony and the ridiculous girlfriends and then the out-of-the-blue wife?  

Nope, I think I'll just delete them all and wait for the first few years to roll back around - if they do.  Not sure if Antenna will keep them rolling or not.

If you have Hulu, you can watch them commercial-free.

[Queena]

On 6/1/2020 at 5:55 PM, annzeepark914 said:

I recall reading that Linda had to promise a singing opportunity for Dixie each time "Julia" had to rail away about a liberal cause (since Dixie did not share those beliefs). I only sat through her singing one time. After that ear shattering experience, I knew I had to hit the mute button. 

I remember that wonderful actor who played the eccentric wealthy client (who gave Anthony some pieces from Clue). Loved that fellow.

I just watched the episode with the preacher who doesn't believe that women should be ministers. Julia started singing and my son turned the TV off. I wasn't upset. 

[Taryn74]

6 minutes ago, Queena said:

I just watched the episode with the preacher who doesn't believe that women should be ministers. Julia started singing and my son turned the TV off. I wasn't upset. 

I always thought that was a very touching episode.

It doesn't make much sense, though, that Charlene wouldn't already know that part of the Southern Baptist doctrine is that women aren't to be pastors. It's not like it's a mostly ignored minor point. It's a HUGE part of their doctrine.

[Bastet]

Just now, Queena said:

I just watched the episode with the preacher who doesn't believe that women should be ministers. Julia started singing and my son turned the TV off. I wasn't upset.

LOL.  That is the worst.  It feels like 15 minutes of her annoying singing voice repeating four words over and over.  I try to hang in, because Jean Smart plays Charlene's sense of pride so beautifully on her face, but nine times out of ten I can't.

The other one I find just unbearable is when she sings "May You Always" at the end of "Bernice's Sanity Hearing" - and then they play more of it over the end credits.

[Retired at last]

I agree with what has been said recently. Although I sill love watching the reruns, I stop once Suzanne and Charlene left. I feel sorry for Julia Duffy, as she always seems to get put in a show after a successful person has left and she can't bring in the fans. I also never liked Jan Hooks, again, playing a new character in a current successful show. I did like it when Judith Ivy came in as BJ Poteet. She is a great actress and her character was fun.

Maybe I was one of the few but I never liked those Julia tirades, and I sure didn't care much for her singing.

[Kohola3]

Dixie's voice is, um, unusual for sure. It appeals to a very small segment I would imagine.

Looks like they are currently picking an choosing what someone must think are "best" episodes since they are jumping around.  

Boy, have things changed when it comes to sexual harassment!