Sweet-tea

Yes, that was pretty nasty of Karen. I was surprised she got off so easy. They just blew it off. I don't know who did Robyn's makeup, but it looks awful. She looks rough. Ashley looks lovely. Candiace isn't exactly receptive to constructive criticism, is she?

I'm really enjoying this show and am bummed it's about to end. Michael Keaton is the standout here for me. I've never seen him in a role like this. He's done a fabulous job of showing how this humble, kind country doctor changed into a different person as an addict. His face is so expressive. I can see the pain and turmoil he's going through. When he was first asked about his wife, the sadness that passed across his face... I wonder if it was a precursor to his vulnerability to addiction? This is taking nothing away from Kaitlyn Dever, who is also excellent. I wasn't familiar with her work before this show, but now I want to look up some of the other shows posters have mentioned. She has absolutely nailed the small town girl persona without making it seem over the top. I've seen other actors overdo characters like this, but Dever has presented a complex, expertly nuanced persona of this young woman I want to root for and protect. Overall, the cast is just stellar. I've enjoyed the performances of the government agents: Saarsgard, Hoogenakker and Dawson. I didn't know who Will Poulter was before this but he's perfect as the young pharma rep who starts out as an ambitious go-getter and later battles his conscience when he realizes what's happening. I wish he'd ditch the brunette woman though. She is awful! Does anyone else find Michael Stuhlberg's whisper-soft voice and understated performance as Richard Sackler effectively creepy? I hope at least Keaton and Dever get Emmy nominations.

Thanks! I’m going to look up the book. I expect it will have a lot more detailed information. I didn’t realize you could once get Vicodin without a prescription. Wow. That is surprising. According to the information here, the two drugs are about the same. Hydrocodone also comes in a time-release tablet. I wonder if that was a market response to oxy. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/oxycodone-vs-hydrocodone#effectiveness

I appreciate your perspective on this. My mother and sister were both hooked on hydrocodone, which I guess is another opiod but not as strong as Oxy? When my sister passed away she had been on Suboxone for over three years. She started with Methadone and at some point the clinic switched her to Suboxone. I’m not sure what the difference is but it did seem like they just substituted this drug for the hydrocodone. She was still dependent on a strong drug and had to line up once a day at the clinic, just like they showed in the series. My mother was prescribed Lortab and Percocet by her regular doctor for at least 15 years. She didn’t even have a real diagnosis and had a history of addiction to various substances (alcohol, cigarettes, benzos). She also was mentally ill and would fake illnesses to get attention from people. Over the years she said she had breast cancer, a brain tumor, Alzheimer’s, and lupus. Those are just the ones I remember. Due to her personality disorder and alcohol issues, she already had problematic, often abusive behavior going all the way back to my childhood. But after she’d been on Percocet a few years, her behavior got much worse. She began to isolate and not eat. She was increasingly abusive to my father. She also began getting additional prescriptions and at least once tried to order drugs from a family member through the mail. I called her doctor and asked him to please stop prescribing her the drugs. He would not talk to me, so I spoke to his nurse. I told her my mother was an addict in serious decline. It was very frustrating as she wouldn’t listen to me and just spouted HIPAA. I understand the confidentiality issue but I wasn’t asking any questions. I was warning them about my mother’s addiction. My sister’s story is even worse, but I will save you all the long story as I already probably went on too long about my mother. One thing I’m not clear on from watching this special is the distinction they’re making between hydrocodone and oxy. Didn’t the opiod crisis include a lot of people hooked like my mother and sister who were addicted to Vicodin, Lortab, Percocet, etc. too? Is this show focusing on oxy because it was marketed as not being addictive? If that is the case, it still seems like they’re leaving off a big portion by not including other opiods.

Interesting take from Lorry on the amount of work Erika may have had done.

I don't think I've ever seen a HW at a reunion as caustic, defiant and tone-death as Erika. She is either one of the least self-aware women of the franchise or she simply doesn't care how she comes across. I was so frustrated and annoyed watching this I turned it off with 10 minutes to go. When Andy asked if any of them believed Erika knew about Tom's shenanigans, I wish at least one of them would've had the nerve to say, "Yes" or "If she didn't, she's an incredibly bad liar." Them defending her irritated me to no end, especially when Lisa tried to justify Erika's threat to Sutton by talking about the seriousness of being called a liar. Come on! Speaking of Lisa, she was the second worst person there. I'm glad they showed those clips of her throwing people under the bus, but her comments were a bunch of B.S. I don't believe she regrets what she said. I think she regrets that she got caught being a snake. And the number three candidate is Kyle, for her stealth mean-girl antics and kissing up to Erika. What a horrible show. I'm out.

I don't believe Robyn wants another child and I'm not sure Juan does either. I think they're in search of a storyline since the wedding is never going to happen. I understand her issues with Juan, but she isn't a saint either. Weren't there rumors about her relationship with the "friend" that ripped them off? Candiace needs to learn how to control her emotions, especially when she's angry. It's embarrassing how easily she pops off at people including her husband. And the same goes for her mouth. As Chris said just because she has a thought doesn't mean she needs to immediately verbalize it! I'm not sure about the color of the wig but otherwise, Gizelle looked lovely at the wedding. I thinks she's one of the prettiest HWs across the franchise.

I think he is too, especially because Erika is so angry, arrogant and self-absorbed. She is still not showing compassion for the victims. In fact, she seems to be thumbing her nose at everyone including the viewers. I hope the decision to keep her backfires on Andy big time.

I also was afraid they would run into each other or pass each other, which would’ve been too obvious. Maybe Mitch was driving far because it was the middle of the night and everything was closed? I don’t know where they were in Italy, but I’ve been there and depending on your location, there isn’t always a convenience store or gas station open at all hours wherever you go. I didn’t understand why Alex turned so neurotic in the last few episodes featuring her. She didn’t come across this way earlier. She was more professional but calculating. Suddenly she’s an emotional mess? It doesn’t make sense. I enjoy watching Jennifer Aniston on this show, but season 1, not season 2. They writers aren’t doing her any favors here. Nothing against Valeria Golino, but I never warmed to the relationship between Paola and Mitch. It seemed forced to me, so it didn’t really bother me when he didn’t return. His final thoughts of Alex seemed cheesy and unwarranted. There wasn’t any back story showing him in love with Alex or with unrequited feelings for her unless I missed something big. His death was a surprise, and that’s about the only positive thing I have to say about this episode. I thought it dragged as did the last one. How many episodes are there this season? Ten? They don’t have much time to pull everything together to create a coherent thread for the season. Right now it’s all over the place. This is one of the worst story arcs I’ve seen from what was a pretty strong show in the first season. Are there different writers for S2? I can’t figure out what happened.

It bothers me too and I won't watch next season. But it's also not surprising. This is the same franchise that brought Teresa Guidice back after she went to prison and gave her a sympathetic edit. She probably got a raise too. I haven't a clue as to why they're bringing Teddi back. She was so boring.

Oh gosh! Thanks for telling me. Only five showed in my Hulu queue so I thought that was it. Now it makes sense that it didn't end correctly. I agree. I was getting confused how it constantly jumps back and forth. The brunette female pharma rep is reprehensible. Just saw this story. Wow. They're going after the marketing company too. I'm not sure what this is saying. Is it that Purdue paid a $10 billion settlement or they're worth $10 billion (as stated upthread). https://www.theepochtimes.com/publicis-loses-bid-to-escape-massachusetts-opioid-marketing-lawsuit_4077275.html

I just finished it. I thought it would wrap up by the last episode but we were kind of left hanging. Is there going to be a second season or is this it? We don’t usually see a season with just five episodes so I assumed it was one and done. I really enjoyed seeing Michael Keaton and his performance was stellar. Watching him transition from a humble country doctor to an addict was heartbreaking. I wasn’t familiar with Kaitlyn Dever but gosh, she is so good in this show. I also thought Peter Saargard and John Hoogenakker were excellent as the federal agents. I didn’t realize that was Rosario Dawson playing Bridget until I looked up the cast. Wow. So many good performances in this show. Sam’s final line to Billy shocked me and broke my heart.

I think so too. My mother was an abusive alcoholic and she didn't get along with any of her seven siblings, especially her three sisters. They also came from an abusive home. She would pit my sisters and I against each other our whole lives, so two sisters would be on my Mom's good side and the other (usually me) was the outcast. This created jealousy, tension and hard feelings that have lasted my whole life. As much as we've tried, my older sister and I still don't get along. My eldest sister died years ago. She was still on Suboxone for opiod addiction when she died. Kyle, Kim and Kathy's family dynamic reminds me so much of my own, except we weren't wealthy or famous. The alcoholic/narcissistic mother manipulates and also instills a lot of guilt in the children. My mother used to say things like, "When I'm six feet under, you'll be sorry for how you treated your mother" and "God will punish you" and a bunch of other stuff I still remember in my 50s. And one of the big rules is don't talk about what happens in the family. It's nobody's business. Your feelings (the children) are also not wanted, valid or needing to be voiced. I wonder if that's part of what we're seeing in Kathy's reaction. The tears are partly a reaction to the whole experience of her childhood, the dysfunction. (I know in my case it's so difficult because even though she could be mean, I still loved my mother very much. All I wanted was for her to love me but she couldn't. She passed away on 10/14/21, alone and friendless. It is so very sad.) I'm glad Kyle and Kathy are getting along now, but I doubt it will last if the family dysfunction runs as deep as it seems. Someone will likely always be on the outs with the other two sisters. Right now Kyle and Kathy are cozy and on the show together. I wonder how it's really going with Kim. Kyle's answer seemed perfunctory to me. Watching Erika's performance confused me. I don't know if I've seen a HW do so poorly on a reunion. She was so angry and vile to everyone. She even snapped at Andy several times. I can't figure out if she is really as angry as she appears or just stupid, because this isn't how you redeem yourself in the eyes of the public. It's like she took the Instagram antics and dialed it up to 10. I'm really surprised they are inviting her back next season. She isn't even fun to hate-watch, because she has no charisma. She comes across as stone cold and reprehensible. I have never liked her but now I dislike her so much I won't watch if she returns next season. I think she's beyond lawyers, image-wise. She needs a good PR firm to help her improve her Q-rating (if that even applies to reality starts). But maybe she doesn't really care. Maybe she is so arrogant and narcissistic that she assumes she is special and can behave this way without consequences. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen it from a narcissist. The first part of this episode seemed like filler to me. This could've easily been three or even two episodes. They obviously want to focus on Erika and are saving the big stuff to the end. I wish Andy had called out Lisa on her blind loyalty to Erika vs. her leading the charge against Denise last season. She's getting off easy this reunion because the attention is on Erika. I also don't believe Dorit pays retail for her clothes. Where is she getting all the money? Is her company doing that well? What does PK even do for a living? Is managing Boy George, who was popular about 25 years ago, his only job? And if they are so rich, why are they constantly moving? I've read stories about their real estate activity and it sounds like a scam. I don't know what to say about Kyle. I'm disappointed in how she lapped up all of Erika's garbage, but I'm not surprised. I didn't expect her to speak out on the reunion either. So far all she's done is react with mouth agape. It seems like she wants to be part of the in crowd and will go along to get along. I wish they'd do a cast reboot on this show. The only ones I'd like to see back are Sutton and Garcelle. I know Kyle is the OG but I'm ready for her to leave. Same goes for Rinna and Erika.

I didn’t think of this until you said it, but I agree. Her tone of voice is kind of flat and lacking emotion. That combined with her frozen face makes her come across as robotic. Is Cory in love with Bradley? I can’t figure out where they’re going with the storyline.

I agree. They are both getting something out of the relationship. The man gets arm candy and the woman gets money and status. Look at Katherine McPhee and David Foster. Are they that different? Not to mention countless other couples. But I still don’t like Erika. If she’s coming back next season, then I’m not watching. It’s bad enough having Rinna on the show.

Her previous lawyers were really working for her father. That’s part of the problem. She had no one advocating her. No one looking out for her best interest. And they wouldn’t let her pick anyone, so the cycle continued. It’s horrible. I don’t know how the court couldn’t see what was going on.

I think it goes way beyond over-controlling her. I’ve watched some other documentaries that go into the details of the financial arrangements and other matters, all benefiting her father, her manager and other people who supposedly are there to “help” her. This includes the lawyers, which for almost the entire period were court-appointed, not chosen by Britney. They exploited and abused her for years. They kept her under surveillance, listened to her phone calls, read her text messages and emails and made her get an IUD against her will. Her dad committed her to a mental facility against her will. They worked her like a dog so they could make more money. It is shameful what was done to her. Her father never should’ve been appointed as the conservator. That was the first mistake. Then to give him a percentage of her income was setting the stage for corruption. The more she worked, the more he and her manager and others made. The second mistake was not reviewing the status ever year, which is required in the state I lived in when I looked into it for my mother. The third mistake was not allowing Britney at any of her own hearings or even letting her choose her own attorney. All because she was supposedly “not competent” to attend. So how does the judge know that? He took the word of Britney’s father, manager, lawyer… whatever. All people who have a vested interest in continuing the arrangement. When we had a hearing for my mother, who was 83 and in bad shape, the judge repeatedly told the attorney to do everything in her power to be sure my mother attended. She said she wanted to hear from her first-hand and be able to assess her ability to understand what was happening. This should’ve been done with Britney, but until a few months ago she wasn’t even given a chance to speak for herself. If I were her, I’d never speak to any of the family members again. I’d also consider suing them for all the money they coerced and extorted from her. I hope she finally gets released from this conservatorship, which has played out more like being on house arrest. As the reporter says in this documentary, the normal standard for a conservatorship is someone who cannot care for themselves, usually an elderly person with dementia or severe illness. This happened to my mother. If people who’ve had mental illness and addiction issues were all put under conservatorship, there would be millions upon millions. There aren’t because it’s supposed to be the very last resort. The court is stripping away many of the basic freedoms we have as citizens, so the burden is very high. So what did they do? Give the control to her father, a person known to have alcohol issues and abusive behavior going back to when he was married to Britney’s mother. And they didn’t even require him to take random alcohol test, only scheduled ones. Those are very ease to pass as alcohol doesn’t stay in your system very long. It’s shocking and horrible. I hope Britney is able to walk away from all of this into a better life: her own life. And I wasn’t even a Britney Spears fan. I’m much older so her music wasn’t my thing.

I was startled looking at her. In one of the scenes, her speech was kind of stilted. Is she having trouble speaking due to something done to her mouth? It looks like she had a rhinoplasty and something else done to her face. Whatever the case, I didn’t notice her eyes as much now as when she was Bachelorette. I thought she had pretty eyes. Why did she mess with her face? DId Tayshia get filler or has her face always been full? Ryan was a tool. Michelle seems down-to-earth and kind. She looks beautiful in that gown. I must have missed something. Why aren’t they in the regular Bachelor house?

The show is already struggling, and Alex’s absence made it worse. JA’s performance is one of the few bright spots this season. I wonder if she had to be off for some reason and they just wrote it into the script.

Steve is refuting Vicki's story about their relationship.

Steve released a statement saying Vicki is lying and he didn't cheat on her. He claims he broke up with her in person at the end of 2020 because she "wanted more" out of the relationship. Will post the clip in media thread.

Can anyone comment on how this series compares to the original? Is it worth watching the original?

Yes, I figured it out from reading this board. Thanks though. I kind of wish they had ended with the fourth episode. I could not warm to Mira and wanted him free of her. I also thought the fifth episode dragged. I think breaking the fourth wall at the beginning screwed this up for me, because during the last scene I kept thinking, “Gosh, it looks like they are really naked and the scenes are so intimate and realistic. This just be difficult for the actors…. and I wonder what their spouses think.” Jonathan ended up being a jerk too. And then they did it at the end too. On one hand it was interesting to see that behind the scenes perspective, but on the other it (again) took me out of the storyline. Just my opinion. I know some liked it.

Me too. I was frustrated watching this episode. I don’t understand why Andy is letting her get away with her outlandish stories and lies. Why didn’t someone call her out on it supposedly snowing in Pasadena? And what about how the story kept changing? She has contradicted herself so many times. They only thing they really called her on was saying her marriage was wonderful when it wasn’t and Tom was controlling and condescending. Even her comments about his dementia are suspicious to me. A lot of elderly people tell the same stories repeatedly. That alone doesn’t mean they have dementia. My father had it. What I noticed first were short-term memory problems and speech issues, such as word-find or inserting the wrong word. No one truly knows what is going on with Tom. Maybe he really does have dementia and has been trying to cover it. That isn’t an excuse to steal money from his clients. Erika continues to paint herself as a victim. Why aren’t they talking about all the crash and burn victims who didn’t get their money? Why aren’t they talking about Erika’s offensive, narcissistic, mocking posts on Instagram? It surely must have rubbed salt in the wounds of those people who are still waiting for their compensation. It was like she was flipping everyone off. I don’t care if it’s how she deals with her stress or whatever. She is callous, selfish and full of herself. She has shown little to no sensitivity to the true victims. It still bothers me how these women are circling the wagons around Erika after last season when most of them ganged up like a coven of witches against Denise. And I cannot stand Lisa Rinna! I don’t know how Harry stands her.

I didn’t like her at all. I watched all four episodes. Mira remained self-absorbed and insensitive. Gosh, that sex scene in episode four made me blush! Yikes. This was interesting an interesting series. I want to look up the original.