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KC is giving interviews all over the place now. You can tell she is deliriously happy about Sara's death. From her interviews, it sounds like she signed onto this show with the understanding that she was going to play an action hero. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason that Laurel had to become the BC was because the EPs feared a breach of contract lawsuit. The rest of the reason, as I've speculated before, is producer ego. I see ratings dropping this season, and different groups of fans blaming different things for the ratings drop. I think the EPs grew complacent with Arrow's success and the go-ahead for The Flash spin-off, and got lazy with Arrow's storytelling - make Laurel the BC! introduce

I think the viewers will be expected to handwave a lot of the training. We've already seen how proficient Roy has become (esp. shooting arrows) after only several months' training. Then at the end of the last episode, we saw Thea looking pretty good fighting after only five months' training. Inevitably, we'll see Laurel taking some boxing lessons and then becoming battle-ready. So what if Oliver had five years of training and Sara was trained by the LOA. The EPs don't seem to care. They probably believe that all viewers want to see are costumed super-heroes fighting bad guys, and all will be forgiven.

There always seems to be a disconnect between the Laurel described by KC in her interviews and the Laurel depicted on the show. KC's laughing and joking about Sara's death showed incredible insensitivity. Regardless, reading those recent KC interviews makes me less enthusiastic about watching this season. Suddenly, I'm less optimistic that Arrow will make it to five seasons.

Twitter results... Nielsen Twitter TV Ratings - Top 10 - 6th October - 12th October Posted by DarkUFO at Tuesday, October 14, 2014 http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/10/nielsen-twitter-tv-ratings-top-10-6th.html

Also, how could Laurel move the body? I find it hard to believe that skinny Laurel can carry Sara's dead body all the way from the alley to the foundry.

I really, really hope you guys are right. But I remember a time when some fans were convinced that the EPs had committed to Sara as the Black Canary and dropped their plans to have Laurel take over that role. Yet here we are - Sara's dead and her jacket & mask have literally been handed to Laurel. That's why I'm afraid that a fully evolved Oliver will also be handed to Laurel as the endgame. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst!

I like this show. There's something just a little different - a little off (in a good way) - about it. Maybe it's the stylized visuals or maybe it's the characters who are just all a little strange looking. So far, I think that Gordon and Oswald are the MVPs of this show, with honorable mentions to Bruce and Selina. At first, Gordon's partnership with Bullock was the most interesting relationship on this show because I think, over time, Gordon will end up getting his hands a little dirty as he is influenced by Bullock, while Bullock will end up doing a few good things as he is influenced by Gordon. But now, Gordon's relationship with Oswald is the most interesting relationship on this show. Gordon cannot trust Oswald but he cannot reveal his presence in Gotham either because he was supposed to have killed him. On Oswald's part, it would be interesting if he really did feel gratitude to Gordon and really did want to help him save the city (in his own evil, twisted way). When I first heard the premise of this show being about the young Jim Gordon, I was skeptical. But now I'm intrigued by the story of how Gordon managed to stay a (relatively) good cop in such a corrupt city for so many years and why he would be willing to help a law-breaking vigilante like Batman. Ben Mackenzie is great at portraying Gordon. When he was making small talk with Oswald in front of Barbara, his eyes were sending different messages and conveyed what he was feeling. When he pushed Oswald up against the wall, his repressed violence demonstrated the desperation of a man who knows he's walking a tightrope. Oswald is by far the most intriguing villain on this show. He is just so devious and manipulative and evil, and played so well by Robin Lord Taylor. Fish Mooney is so OTT that it's sometimes hard to take her seriously. Falcone and Mulroney are just ciphers at this point. Oh Barbara, giving ultimatums rarely helps a relationship. I'm glad Gordon stood his ground. He wants to protect her and not make her an accomplice to his possibly criminal actions - or have any of the corruption at his workplace touch her. He also doesn't completely trust her now that she's revealed her secret about Montoya. Have we ever seen Barbara work or do anything other than hang around the apartment? Maybe she'll move out now and get a life. I didn't have a problem with Gordon talking to Bruce. The issue involved the Wayne parents' proposal for Arkham. Yay, no appearance by the Major Crimes team. I'm not sure that Gladwell was hired by Falcone and Mulroney. He was killed so he can't say. I think someone else might have hired him, in order to start the mob war.

I continue to enjoy the partnership between Ichabod and Abby. They both know their mission and are willing to risk their lives to accomplish it. When Abby proposes that she become entranced and lead them to the Pied Piper, you can tell he is initially reluctant ("act as bait?") but he trusts her and will be there to back her up. Abby trusts him to pull her back and remove the earbuds when needed. At the end when Abby tells Ichabod to "go get" the Piper while she is comforting Sara, she's sending him into danger alone but trusts him to do so. When he is losing his fight with the Piper, I half-expected Hawley to return and save him - but it was Abby who came after him as back-up and saved him. While the Piper is distracted fighting with Ichabod, Abby comes up behind him and pierces him through the back. It is fitting that it takes both Ichabod and Abby as a team to defeat the Piper - each one alone could not have done so. Of course, you have to hand-wave the fact that a Piper who easily defeated a contingent of soldiers was taken down by two people. Ichabod's teasing of Abby and their banter continue to amuse - the driving lesson, the flute versus cello remark, etc. I am still on the fence about Nick Hawley. While I like the different dynamic he brings to the team (his skepticism, his self-interest, calling Ichabod "Shakespeare"), his involvement in this case seemed a bit contrived. But he did serve as a plot device to deliver the bone flute to Parrish. When Abby broke the flute, I was relieved because it seemed like she had been too willing to hand over a powerful cursed object to someone she barely knows. I still can't believe she and Ichabod let him keep that cursed coin from last week. Poor Frank now knows that he's signed his soul over to the Horseman.

I was reading over on the Heartaches, Bromances & True Love thread about Oliver's relationship with Felicity. My fear is that the EPs will use Felicity in the same way that they've used Sara - to help Laurel. As we've all speculated, Sara's death will likely be used to start and motivate Laurel's journey to become the Black Canary. Once Laurel is fighting side-by-side with Oliver, they will likely bond. This season, Oliver has to come to grips with whether he can have a personal life and romantic relationship with someone he loves and still be the Arrow. We've speculated that by the end of the season, Oliver will resolve this conflict and decide that he can have a real relationship with Felicity. What if Felicity helps Oliver grow into this person who can commit to a real relationship only to have something happen to her so that Oliver turns to Laurel, and Laurel reaps the benefits of that as well (namely, Felicity helps Oliver become a better man, and Laurel gets that better man)? Then you have both Sara and Felicity being used to contribute to the growth of the two main superheros, Green Arrow & Black Canary, and to their ultimate reconciliation. That is one of my greatest fears with this show.

Take that, Batman v. Superman.... Robert Downey Jr And Chris Evans To Team Up In Captain America 3? BY AYEESHA WALSH ON OCTOBER 14, 2014 http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/159982/Robert-Downey-Jr-And-Chris-Evans-To-Team-Up-In-Captain-America-3

Sounds to me like Gareth is returning... 'The Walking Dead' showrunner Scott M. Gimple answers premiere burning questions (like that secret scene) By Dalton Ross on Oct 13, 2014 at 1:00AM @DaltonRoss http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/13/walking-dead-scott-gimple-season-premiere/

My first impression after watching this episode should have been "what a great episode". Instead, my overall impression was "too many damn commercial interruptions". It was like 2 minutes of show, 5 minutes of commercials, 2 minutes of show, 5 minutes of commercials, etc. I know that AMC must be making a mint off of TWD, but can they please try to reduce the number of commercials and promos! That said, what a great episode. All of the reunion scenes were touching (the actors knocked them out of the park). Carol and Team Rick kicked ass and put the Termites down. I liked that Carol recognized and picked up Rick's watch (the one he had given Sam) and Darryl's crossbow. Although Carol saved the day in this episode, I still wouldn't trust her completely. I'd still take Rick as a leader over Carol. Did Michonne get her katana back? If not, it better not magically appear next week without an explanation. I still like Glenn and Maggie. The Termites took 4 men from car A (Rick, Glen, Darryl and Bob) and 4 men from car D (including Sam). The way the men were lined up at the trough - the show came up with a logical reason why the extras were killed but our guys were spared. Alex on the butcher block - now we know why, last season, when Alex was being held by Rick, he was pleading with Gareth. He knew that he was going to be sacrificed and eaten. Although the show wanted us to feel sympathy for the Termites and how they ended up this way, I didn't. There's a vast gulf between welcoming all visitors and luring them in to eat them. After their horrific experience, the Termites could have just killed visitors who posed a threat. I'm with those who think Gareth isn't dead and will show up later to take revenge on Rick's group. I also agree with others here who think that, most likely, Eugene just wants to get to Washington. D.C., for a personal reason and he's lying to everyone in order to use their protection to get himself there since he can't protect himself. His explanation of how he can 'cure' the zombie outbreak made no sense whatsover, and I still can't believe the others are letting him get away with skating on this BS. It just makes the others look incredibly stupid. I also find Eugene, Abraham and Rosita to be annoying additions to the cast and hope they're walker fodder. I like the originals and don't want them all killed off and replaced with newbies. Morgan returns - who carved the sign on the tree? I bet his storyline leads him to the group that has Beth. Question: the promos had shown a scene of Rick saying something like "These people are my family. If you hurt any of then, I'll kill you". But I didn't see that scene in this episode. Editing casualty or future episode? Pet peeve: In postapocalyptic TV shows, the men all wear comfortably loose clothes, but the women all have skintight pants. Given they're existing on starvation rations and walking all the time, the women's pants should be hanging on them by now.

I'm glad they didn't drag out the whole framing Elsa for freezing Marian plot (the way they did when Regina/Gold framed Mary Margaret for Katherine's 'death'). Elsa seems much less powerful in OUAT than she was in Frozen. Emma's reason for pushing Hook away made sense. I hope their reconciliation doesn't mean that Hook is doomed in a future episode. I like that Hook knew Gold well enough to guess that Gold was lying about the dagger. Elizabeth Mitchell surprised me. Her usual remote style of acting (which made her terrible in some other roles) actually fit the persona of the Snow Queen - coldly detached from everyone else. The Snow Queen's back story likely includes her being put in the urn by her sister (Elsa's mother) because the SQ was evil and endangered Arendelle, but her sister couldn't kill her outright. This would spur the SQ to seek revenge by pitting her dead sister's two daughters, Elsa and Anna, against each other. I therefore wouldn't be surprised if Anna really was the one who put Elsa in the urn - but it was probably done in desperation and to save Elsa from herself. I can see the SQ corrupting or bespelling Elsa to use her powers for selfish reasons in Arendelle to the point where Elsa is about to do something that Anna knows she will regret. So she puts Elsa in the urn and then sets out to find a way to save Elsa. So who's been ruling Arendelle while Elsa was trapped in the urn? And if Elsa can magically adorn herself in that blue dress, why can't she magically change her clothes?

but to give the good stuff to Nyssa would be so much more meaningful, It's a tempting thought but I can think of two reasons why it's not going to happen on the show. Nyssa is an assassin and they want to keep Laurel on the good side otherwise they might just as well have kept Sara. But the bigger reason is that it takes years to learn skills to that kind of level. Nyssa isn't going to hang around Starling City, putting her life on hold for 3 years to train Laurel, maybe longer since Laurel has a day job, and the EPs aren't going to send Laurel off the show to Nanda Parbat while she trains. A time jump for Laurel's character would make the viewers who care about all the other characters and want to see their development furious.I agree that Nyssa has neither the time nor any motivation to train Laurel. She is still an LOA member with obligations. Whatever limited time she can spend in Starling City, she'll be spending it tracking down Sara's killer, not training Laurel. She's already a trained assassin with fighting, killing and tracking skills. She doesn't need Laurel. And what's her motivation for training Laurel? She's not going to do it out of the goodness of her heart. She's a killer. The last time she saw Laurel she knocked her out with a dart. Ra's is not going to allow LOA training to be wasted on anyone other than someone joining the LOA - which brings me to my main point here. While I fear that Sara's death means that Laurel will become the Black Canary (duh), if that has to happen, then I hope that Laurel's becoming the Black Canary will mean her exit from the show. If for whatever half-baked reason the LOA wants to train 30-year-old lawyer Laurel, then have Nyssa agree to train her - whether in Starling City or somewhere else - in exchange for Laurel agreeing to join the LOA as an assassin. Then, after Sara's killer is caught, Laurel must leave Starling City (and the show) to join the LOA. That way, she'll only return to the show on a recurring basis or not at all.

I'm going to respond in the Hopes and Fears thread.

Sorry, foreverevolving, I try to read all previous posts carefully - but too many posts and limited time!

The Walking Dead Season 5 Panel - New York Comic Con 2014 Published on Oct 11, 2014 by carl poppa

Jenna Coleman will be playing Lydia Bennett Wickham on Death Comes to Pemberley, a two-part TV miniseries. Part 1 will air on October 26th on PBS' Masterpiece Theatre (in the U.S.). http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2951788/ Lydia Bennet's dramatic entrance - Death Comes to Pemberley: Episode 1 Preview - BBC One

If you liked the Oliver & Felicity scenes in this episode, this recap is for you (if you didn't, just skip this post).... Romantic Moment of the Week – Oliver and Felicity Kiss By Autumn Topping @SilverPetticoat · On October 11, 2014 http://www.silverpetticoatreview.com/2014/10/11/romantic-moment-week-oliver-felicity-kiss/

'Arrow' Poll: What Do You Think of the Latest Oliver/Felicity Relationship Development? By Jill Slattery on October 9, 2014 http://www.zimbio.com/TV+Recaps/articles/nwoPb7-_KnH/Arrow+Poll+Think+Latest+Oliver+Felicity+Relationship

Felicity Smoak on another list... 10 TV characters that made a 'lasting' impression BY MUMTAJ BEGUM Thursday October 9, 2014 http://www.thestar.com.my/Lifestyle/Entertainment/TV/News/2014/10/09/10-TV-characters-that-made-a-lasting-impression/

The Doctor was better in this episode, although his defeat of the Mummy/Foretold seemed too easy. Once the Doctor was the target, you knew he was going to win. Peter Capaldi is much more believable when they don't try to make his Doctor too quirky. It was cruel of the show to make us think that this was the last episode with Clara, and then give her a quick change of heart. P.S. If you're interested in seeing Jenna Coleman in another role, see the Small Talk thread.

I'm not ready to quit the show yet. We've worried about the EPs killing off Sara for awhile now, so the fact that it has happened isn't a huge surprise - even though they did it too soon and in a really crappy, shameful way. Their blind commitment to Laurel becoming the BC does confound me. Her journey does not interest me at all. If Team Arrow ends up being Oliver, Laurel and Roy in costume (as I said in another thread), or if they screw up the Felicity character, then I'm out. As has been said, the failure of the Laurel character is due to both the writing and the acting. Writing is only half of the character portrayal. Acting is the other. A good actor can take bad or minimal writing and add nuances to the performance that elevate it above the written material. On the other hand, a bad actor can take good writing and flatten it into a one-dimensional performance. At this point, Katie Holmes would make a better Laurel than Katie Cassidy (considering Laurel was apparently derived from Rachel Dawes of Batman Begins) - and that's not saying much.

I've been reading through all the posts since Sara was killed off (and it became clear that Laurel was going to become the Black Canary come hell or high water), and it's interesting to note that we seem to be going through the four stages of grief: Denial, Depression, Anger, and Acceptance. As crazy as it seems right now, I won't be surprised if it turns out that a lot of fans do accept Laurel as the BC once she dons the costume and starts fighting (most likely after some unbelievably quick training journey, and with generous use of stunt doubles). Let's face it, KC can pull off hostile & aggressive much better than warm & compassionate. And superhero fans mostly love kickass females. Of course, you'll need to hand-wave a lot of things... Speaking of kickass females, since the EPs seem to believe that you can only have one such female on the show at a time, will Laurel's ascension to BC mean Nyssa's death?

Considering what they've done so far, I am forced to conclude that the EPs really do think the problem with Laurel has been that she wasn't the BC and wasn't in the know about Oliver's vigilante identity. They probably think they've now fixed the Laurel problem and that fans will all love her this season.