tv echo

Season 1 - Laurel as warm, compassionate lawyer? Nope. Season 2 - Laurel as addicted, morally ambiguous lawyer? Nope. Season 3 - Laurel as badass, fighting lawyer? TBD

The movie Batman Begins aired recently on TV and, watching it, I was struck again by how it "inspired" Arrow. Though Katie Holmes was panned by critics, I actually liked her as Rachel Dawes. I thought that she came across as a compassionate, passionate and sometimes vulnerable lawyer and that she had chemistry with Christian Bale. I also thought, 'this is what Laurel was supposed to be' -- the hero's childhood sweetheart who became a warm, compassionate lawyer who fights for justice and someone who knows the hero down to his bones - enough to know that his Bruce Wayne persona is now the mask and his costumed alter ego is now the real him, and who hopes that someday he will return to being the boy she loved before he went away. The problem, of course, is that Laurel never came across that way and the two actors had zero chemistry, and so the Arrow TPTB had to struggle to change her character to fit the actress' strengths.

Actually, I wouldn't mind if Felicity's back story is tied back to Oliver's back story in some way. If done right, it could even be believable. Felicity did work at QC and she was known to Walter - so it wouldn't be surprising if she was specifically recruited to work at QC and for Walter (who's friends with Robert, Moira and Malcolm) because of something having to do with her father - and that that something had to do with ARGUS, HIVE or LOA. Walter may have been asked by her father to watch over her. She would be completely unsuspecting. It would be more unbelievable if Felicity had had no connection to the Queen family business prior to meeting Oliver. She can still be a normal girl with a normal upbringing - and a normal, albeit somewhat kooky mother - and still have a mysterious unknown father.

I agree that Anne has become annoying, but so have a lot of the others. I like that at least one group is headed by a female (for a change). I don't have a problem with Anne changing from being a doctor to a resistance leader over the course of several months. Tom was a mild-mannered history professor who became a resistance leader pretty quickly in Season 1. In desperate times, people do what they have to do. If I thought I'd lost everyone I loved, I'd change into someone grimmer too. As for leading despite other more experienced fighters in her group, well I expressed the same sentiment about Hal leading his group despite there being other older and more experienced fighters in his group - even Pope has more leadership and fighting experience. However, Anne is part of the special snowflake Mason clan - so they must always lead and their agendas must always take precedence - whether it's Anne searching for Lexi or Tom rescuing Matt. BTW, what happened to Tom's promise to Matt to go back and rescue the other children? What a waste of Chief Tyrol.

There's been a lot of talk on the Felicity thread about how Oliver's making her his EA when he was CEO of QC was a demotion for her. But Diggle's cover as Oliver's "black driver" was a demotion and a sacrifice for him as well. He was originally hired to be Oliver's bodyguard, but once he discovered that Oliver was the vigilante, it was clear that his bodyguarding skills were not needed. Diggle became more of a crime-fighting partner. But his day job was still to pose as Oliver Queen's bodyguard and driver. He probably could've gotten a better job elsewhere. Now that Oliver is no longer head of QC, maybe Diggle will get a new day job that's more suitable for his skills and experience.

I don't think the writers hate Laurel - I think they just don't know what to do with the character. Actually, I think the writers (or the EPs) went out of their way to write Laurel into the main action at the end of Season 2. Remember how Laurel got some guy to hack into Blood's database and found the post-dated press release about Moira's death? That hacking is something that normally would've been done by Felicity. But Laurel got the scene and that got her into the Arrowcave and Team Arrow to tell Oliver about Blood. Then that got her following Oliver and to the scenes of her saving Oliver and then shooting an arrow. Etc. (If Laurel had to be the one to pursue the Blood lead, well Quentin was there too and he knows Felicity is a computer genius. So why didn't he get Felicity to help them hack into the database? Because then Felicity would be there when the Blood press release was discovered and she could tell Oliver about Blood's deception, thereby negating the need for Laurel to ever enter the Arrowcave.) I do agree, however, that the Laurel character that was originally described by the EPs ("warm, compassionate lawyer" who works at the CNRI and fights for justice) is not the Laurel character that's coming across on the TV screen - partly due to writing and partly due to acting/casting.

Based on the past two seasons, Felicity's back story will most likely tie back to something already mentioned on the show - like ARGUS or HIVE, thus tying it back to Oliver (like just about everything else on the show). Since ARGUS is going to feature prominently this next season (Hong Kong flashbacks, as intimated at the end of "Unthinkable"), I could see them tying Felicity's father to ARGUS. If they are going to pursue the mystery of who ordered the hit on Diggle's father, I could see them tying Felicity's father to HIVE. I even once speculated that Felicity's father was an old friend of Walter's and that both Walter and her father were tied to the LOA in some way, based on the following facts: Malcolm was in the LOA, Malcolm was friends with Robert and Moira, Walter was friends with them as well, Moira knew about the LOA, Walter asked Felicity for help in investigating Moira, Oliver was referred to Felicity for IT help by someone (Walter?). But now I think ARGUS or HIVE makes more sense. In case it just seems too coincidental that Felicity's father would be tied to ARGUS or HIVE, well maybe it's not. Maybe Walter is connected to ARGUS or HIVE. Maybe Felicity was hired to work at QC by Walter, who had promised her father that he would look after her. This is all pure speculation, of course.

Based on all the spoilers so far, I'm going to give Season 3 a chance. Arrow, with all its flaws, is still a more entertaining hour of television than a lot of crap that's on TV. But Season 3 will probably decide if I continue to watch the show. Looking on the bright side, it could've been worse. I doubt I would've watched Arrow past Season 1 (assuming it was even renewed) if they hadn't amped up Diggle's role and brought in Felicity, thus forming Team Arrow, which, in turn, made Oliver more likeable. Just imagine the show if the cast was still limited to focusing on asshole Oliver and abrasive Laurel, and their sad love triangle with poor Tommy.

I knew Emma was going home as soon as the winning team was announced. The judging criteria seems to be less about cooking ability or even the ability to talk on camera, and more about having an outsize personality. Now you have to be a "character" - almost a caricature - to stand out and survive this competition.

I watched this pilot last night because I was fast losing patience with Falling Skies... I think Director Hayes fired Dr. Lennon because he wanted sole power and control over those 100 embryos. If she stayed, she'd have more power and control than him. She'd have access to those embryos, as well as the research results, and could hide them or manipulate them. He also didn't want more than 100 embryos because he probably felt that any greater number would be unmanageable. With 100, he could control their implantation, growth, and upbringing (brainwashing) in a tightly secure environment, in essence, controlling the next generation of humans and the future of the human race. What didn't make sense is why he didn't just have Dr. Lennon killed so that she couldn't then go do the work on her own or for another government? Unless he was secretly planning to have her killed, once she left the facility. Or, he wanted to keep her alive in case there were problems, but then he should've had her followed or even imprisoned. Yeah, makes no sense. The lottery idea is kinda stupid. What if the winners include someone who's really evil and will sell or abuse the child, or someone with a disease or addiction? I usually like to give a new show with an intriguing premise a few episodes to catch my attention. Sometimes good characters can overcome plot weaknesses. But one big flaw I see is that I find the lead character of Dr. Lennon unlikeable. As mentioned, she ruthlessly uses other people even though she's supposed to be the heroine (I think) - that bar guy for sex and her friend/colleague for access and information. However, I do like the single dad, Kyle, and his rescue of his little son Elvis.

This article plus MR's tweet --> Deadshot returns in Ep. 3-"Corto Maltese"? Arrow Season Three Episode Three Title Reveals a Visit To a Familiar DC Comics Locale http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/07/19/arrow-season-three-episode-three-title-reveals-a-visit-to-a-fami/

Mildly spoilerish... http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/GraphicCity/news/?a=103977 Link to Michael Rowe's tweet: https://twitter.com/Captain_Rowe/status/489879488537182208/photo/1

I think they're keeping the DC movies and DC tv shows separate mainly for logistical reasons. As Marvel's Agents of SHIELD has shown, it's too difficult to keep the TV show's timeline tied into the movies' timeline (esp. when you have different producers and directors) - movie production schedules and release dates change, but tv schedules are set. It also hampers the tv show's story from flowing organically if it's too dependent upon what happens in the movies. For example, the collapse of SHIELD could be shown on the tv show only after Captain America 2 was released. (Marvel's Agent Carter will be different because it takes place completely in the past.) At the same time, I would think that they wouldn't want to confuse younger fans - so if they could keep Green Arrow and The Flash out of the movies completely for now, they'd do that. However, the article did say that the Flash is a core member of the Justice League and that there's also a potential new movie teaming the Flash with Green Lantern. So I suppose it's possible that they're going to just have parallel universes with different actors playing the same superheroes in movies and on TV. That means perhaps that they either lack confidence in Grant Gustin's big screen persona or want to cast a bigger name star for the Flash in the movies.

Yeah, I might've overreacted to Laurel's line to Oliver about needing a drink of water. I think it was the dismissive, condescending way in which KC said that line - like how a rich person would talk to a servant. Though I still think it's strange to expect someone else to get you a glass of water in your own home.

Looks like Grant Gustin and The Flash (as well as Arrow) will not be part of the DC movie universe... http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-the-flash-will-not-be-part-of-the-dc-movie-universe/18020

Wow, really thorough, Ceylon5! Here is an interesting and insightful analysis by a non-shipper of several relationships on the show - Lauriver, Olicity, Tommy/Laurel and Oliver/Laurel/Tommy - as well as a great analysis of how Diggle and Felicity make Oliver more redeemable, while Laurel has no one to make her more redeemable (I found out about this analysis at www.oliverandfelicity.com, so credit goes to that website for the link): Arrow: Lauriver and Olicity http://seeyouaroundtiger.tumblr.com/post/86947478424/arrow-lauriver-and-olicity (I don't think this has been posted before - I don't recall reading it before.)

Looks like Arrow and The Flash will not be part of the DC movie universe... http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-the-flash-will-not-be-part-of-the-dc-movie-universe/18020

That is one cute baby. The complaints of romance taking over the show only seem to come up in connection with Oliver and Felicity. I don't recall any similar complaints in Season 1 which had a season-long romantic triangle among Oliver, Laurel and Tommy. I also don't recall any similar complaints when the relationship between Oliver and Sara seemed to take over half of Season 2. Hmm... what story line would make Laurel fans "very, very happy"? How about this (all speculation based on spoilers)? To help pay the bills, Oliver gets a job at a new fitness & boxing gym. Partly because she doesn't want to get kidnapped (again), and partly to get closer to Oliver, Laurel joins this gym and starts training. She meets the gym owner, a rough-around-the-edges former boxing champion, Ted Grant, who used to box under the moniker Wildcat. Ted starts training Laurel and they engage in Hepburn & Tracy-like bickering because they're so different (she's snooty and he's more earthy). When Oliver - who's still enamored of his shiny new toy of the moment Felicity (how KC and her fans would describe O/F) - rejects Laurel's attempt to reconnect romantically with him, Laurel turns to Ted for comfort. They start dating and fall for each other. However, probably at the end of Season 3, Ted (her trainer and lover) is murdered and his killer is set free on a legal technicality. Laurel is distraught ("Everyone leave me! Wah!") and vows vengeance. She tracks down and kills Ted's murderer in cold blood. Oliver finds out, but covers it up to protect her. In Season 4, in Ted's memory, Laurel trains even more fiercely and starts taking part in Oliver's crime-fighting outings. Having inherited Sara's canary cry device, she uses that to make up for her fighting inadequacies. She becomes even more ruthless than Sara and becomes known as the Black Canary in Season 5. By then, the O/F romance is over, Laurel and Oliver have become close again as crime-fighting partners and occasional romantic hook-ups. Ta da! Can't you just see the EPs going that route?

Lots of spoilers coming out. I gotta admit it's getting me excited for the new season. With all the possible origin stories in Arrow, I think the EPs have visions of superhero spin-offs (and controlling the DC TV-verse) dancing in their heads. Since Joss Whedon appears to be their idol, maybe they hope to move up into controlling the DC Movie-verse and become his DC counterpart.

Yes, but you picked up on the boxing ring clue and made the connection to Ted Grant. If true, would it be too wild if both new love interests (Ray Palmer, Ted Grant) turned into costumed superheroes?

Ted Grant is a great guess. If Grant is Laurel's new love interest, then I guess the EPs haven't given up on Laurel becoming Black Canary since as others have previously mentioned, in the comics, Ted Grant is Wildcat, a mentor who trained the second Black Canary. He was present at the original Black Canary's death and vowed to look after her daughter.

Wow, that's great that EBR is getting more recognition. I hope she wins, but that's tough competition.

The new spoilers are interesting. Even though AK says that both Felicity and Laurel are getting new love interests, you just know that by the end of Season 3, it'll all come back to Oliver in some way - like Oliver realizes which gal pal getting a love interest disturbs him more (in other words, who he loves more). And AK's enthusiasm about getting Brandon Routh on the show (as the "gamechanger") makes me think that his character, Ray Palmer, may stick around past Season 3, which maybe means he'll stay Felicity's love interest for the forseeable future. It's also possible that Laurel's new love interest gets killed at the end of Season 3, providing impetus for Laurel's journey toward becoming Black Canary (if the EPs haven't given up on that). Otherwise, why not get rid of Laurel altogether? She doesn't add anything to the show. If Oliver needs an ally in the D.A.'s office, he isn't going to need one every week. Just introduce a new, recurring character who's a good lawyer with integrity (someone who didn't have to use blackmail to get his job). You could kill off that character at the end of Season 3 in a tragic Whedonesque move. Maybe make that a thing - like every season, Oliver gets a new ally in the D.A.'s office who gets killed off. Again a mention of Joss Whedon, which is ominous. JW is infamous for not letting his characters be happy. I guess the ultimate prize for all comic book-loving TV producers now is to end up being in charge of overseeing a superhero movie universe.

I think they can have an episode called and about "Sara" and get minimal backlash. But if they have an episode called and about "Felicity", the haters will come out of the woodwork and yell 'fan pandering'. Speaking of the "Sara" episode, maybe it won't be about killing off Sara. Maybe it'll be about Sara becoming Sara again and abdicating her 'Canary' persona. Then maybe she goes off to spend time with her mother. I suspect that Laurel will be front and center, right next to Oliver/Arrow, in the Season 3 cast poster. I think this upcoming season will determine whether or not I continue watching Arrow.

'The Walking Dead': Robert Kirkman talks Season 5 and promises "our best season yet" By Dalton Ross on Jul 17, 2014 at 9:00AM http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/07/17/walking-dead-robert-kirkman-season-5-best/