apinknightmare

The "we both did" was in reference to the kiss, I think. Oliver wasn't ready to admit (or didn't realize) that he meant what he said, so I think the "we both did" was a way of letting her off the hook for being maybe embarrassed about kissing him, thinking it was real. It doesn't really make sense (to me) that they left that in since without the kiss she didn't really sell anything. He just told her he loved her and handed her a syringe. I absolutely believe she didn't know, and didn't the EPs confirm that?

Thank you!!!

For me, I don't think it's got anything to do with her wanting to be put first, but there is something to be said for dating a vigilante who can have a relationship be a priority because he's doing the thing because he wants to. As far as Felcity knows, Oliver's resigned himself to dying for his cause, so how could he ever fully be invested in having a future with her? He doesn't even think HE has one. Seems like Ray would go out and fight crime knowing he could get killed. Oliver, last he told Felicity, expects it. So it's not that I think Felicity ever expects or wants or needs to be put first over the mission or other people's safety, it's that when all is said and done, Oliver doesn't even expect to be around all that long. For someone who's lost so many people, how scary would it be to give your heart to someone who (again, as far as she knows) believes he'll leave the foundry one day and not come back? It's one thing to know it's possible, and a completely other thing to think it's inevitable.

I think the deleted kiss was supposed to be kind of chaste. I think it would've looked terrible if it had been super passionate and then he "tricked" her. The kiss in The Calm I thought was sweet and gentle, and probably a lot of Oliver letting him have a little bit but holding a lot back. The kiss in Midnight City was always going to be awkward because Stephen Amell had a mouthful of blood.

I need help. A month or so ago, someone posted a one-shot that started off with Oliver saying something like "since this clearly isn't working for either of us anymore, maybe we should call off the wedding!" and then Felicity runs out of the foundry and gets hit by a car in the parking lot of Verdant. Anyone remember this and know where I can find it?

Haha, I posted a similar theory a few pages back but then I dismissed it because I thought surely they wouldn't be dumb enough to put Laurel between Oliver and Felicity. But now we know they are that dumb, so yeah. I agree.

Ah, okay. I don't follow him on Twitter, so I didn't see any of that.

Sadly, I think the backlash will be on Felicity more than Ray. But he'll definitely take some of it. And hopefully those tons of scenes he has with Oliver come soon, because you're right. He needs someone else to interact with desperately.

It's funny though, because he didn't indicate during his show that he was considering quitting. He went off on Diggle being left in the foundry while Laurel went out and dealt with the hostage situation with the alderman and how Felicity lost her mind when she went and told Laurel that she should suit up and said that was the first time in the history of the show he felt the writers disrespected his intelligence. I guess he continued to stew on that after the show was over, because it seemed throughout like he was going to keep tuning in.

Yeah, he definitely did. I was being sarcastic - he sucks.

Hey, Ray knows how to fight! He did pummel that bad dude onto the top of a desk and wrestled with him for a bit before Lance saved him.

Did MG specify whether the hospital is in SC? I feel like he did, but I'm probably confusing it with something else.

Laurel and Ray are in the same boat: they're going to do what they want to do, might as well have people around them who know what they're doing. Hopefully Ray fares better with that, since Laurel's presence seems to make people really stupid. No point in convincing them otherwise, I guess. I'm just making up my own reasons for trying to understand why she might choose Ray over Oliver in the meantime. The reasons the show gives probably won't make any sense, haha. BECAUSE PLOT.

Maybe, but we don't know that's why she's "asking Oliver to leave her alone romantically" or whatever.

Well, the Anna part WAS sarcasm, because that was a pretty quick turnaround time. But every relationship on this show has a quick turnaround time, so whatever I guess. Maybe she feels like he'll be safer in a suit? I mean, he certainly wouldn't get run through in it. He wouldn't get shot with arrows in it. He'd be armed. If he's going to be Iron Man lite, he's definitely the safer of the two vigilante options. I'll disagree - Ray's mission definitely isn't the same as Oliver's. He's entering into it willingly, which is very noble. But is he sacrificing anything to do it? Nah. It's more of a calling than an obligation. Oliver's mother and father literally had a hand in destroying the city. And then Tommy died because of it. And decisions Oliver made in the past have brought people to the city who have tried to harm his loved ones and innocent people in Starling City. So, Oliver's got a weight on his shoulders that he might never break free from. Ray? He really, really doesn't.

Why would that be sarcasm? Oliver's loaded down with expectation and dedication to the city, so much so that he feels like he can't be himself in order to keep people safe. Ray doesn't have that issue. I'm not saying Felicity would choose to date him because he told her he wants to protect her and would put her first - Felicity doesn't care about that. It's just that he's entering into this vigilante thing from a completely different angle than Oliver and that leaves him open to the possibility of actually being a romantic partner in a way that Oliver isn't. Didn't he tell Felicity at the beginning of the season that he couldn't be with her because he had to be the Arrow?

Someone on Tumblr left MG this comment: His response:

Well, Oliver became a vigilante to protect the city, and good 'ol Ray told Felicity he wanted to do it to protect her, now that dear old Anna seems to be a distant memory. So because he doesn't have a promise to his father and a desire to honor his best friend behind him, he probably can make a relationship a priority in ways Oliver can't (yet). ETA: changed the wording, because I shouldn't have written that Ray can "put Felicity first" - not quite what I meant.

Ah, okay. My rage over the voice incident made me block most of this ep, haha. Thank you!

This sentence continues to bug THE HELL out of me. I kept thinking it was a tease and the A would be a THE in the episode, but MG reiterated the A on Tumblr, so boo. I feel like they've got to be fighting about Laurel and him not thinking she should be on the team and being all Oliver (understandably) about it. Or maybe about his instincts toward women he cares about in general? Like getting all grrrrr over Laurel fighting or making questionable decisions when it comes to Thea (not telling her the truth or whatever). But she's seen him do both of those things before, so...and what would that have to do with wanting him to leave her alone romantically? Unless that was the lie SA was talking about and the conversation doesn't quite go like that. Basically I know nothing and I need to know what that terrible sentence is about.

Question: I was just reading a review of this episode, and the reviewer wrote about Laurel's lack of reaction to Oliver being dead and that she was glad there was a mention of her thinking he might still be alive in this ep. When did that happen/what did she say? I totally missed it.

Yeah, I think this is what's going to happen.

That's why I'm going to wait and see what happens because none of this really makes sense. It might not after, but who knows? I don't think Felicity's going to be angry with Oliver over anything that transpired over his death. I think he's going to do something stupid that's going to upset her after he comes back (aligning with Malcolm, who already tried to get him killed once). Being in love with someone who seems resigned to death and making idiotic decisions that make their death more likely (she never heard Oliver say he didn't want to die like that) is different than being with someone who does something risky. The risk of loving a vigilante wasn't ever Felicity's problem. It's the loving one who's resigned himself to dying in pursuit of his cause that might be.

Yeah, these people forgetting character and writing to plot isn't anything new. MG saying that they thought Felicity could molest a kitten and then set it on fire or whatever and people will still like her suggests they think they can do pretty much anything with her and she'll be untouchable. Hopefully they don't test that theory out too much. I'll wait and see. MG thinking people will be angry suggests to me that it's probably not going to be that bad and/or will actually make some damn sense. I'm just not going to get down and cynical about it until I actually see what happens. THEN I'll get down and cynical about it, haha.

It's not at all out of the realm of possibility that she'll tell him she doesn't love him and actually act in a way that's cruel or selfish, but she hasn't done that yet. He's told her he loved her in roundabout ways, and then done absolutely nothing about it. He only just outright said it the last time he saw her, and I'll (foolishly, probably) wait to pass judgment on something that hasn't even happened yet.