apinknightmare

I thought the "we chart our own course" was his response to assertions that they plan story arcs and ships based on fan reactions/to cater to fans. I don't think it's any indication that they're moving away from Olicity.

I have no clue. Oliver did say in 3x09 he didn't know if he was still a killer or not, even though I was pretty sure he did know that, so Mr. No Kill probably would join a league of assassins, yeah.

When MG tweeted that Felicity would hug Oliver, someone should've asked with which part of her body.

For someone so outspoken about how negative and nasty people can be on the internet, he has a lot of them. Personally I don't care; I find him amusing when he tweets or posts things like that on Facebook, AND when he goes on a deleting spree after he realizes it might not have been such good idea to do it.

If it was from Oliver's POV, I think he'd have written, "Would he be so accurate if he had to punch people in the mouth?" I find SA pretty amusing, but he doesn't think through some of the stuff that he posts. I think the comment's funny, but it's something he should post to his personal Facebook or where only his friends can see it, not something he should put on his official page.

Oh, if only I cared enough about Ray to worry about this undercutting him or how people perceive him like I do Felicity. That would be a nice problem to have. I think we need whoever wrote the Felicity/Barry and the Felicity/Oliver scenes over on The Flash to make a permanent relocation over to Arrow.

They never actually showed her thinking it was necessary - we don't know why she did it. They conveniently left the conversation out of the episode where they came to the conclusion that they needed Laurel to pretend to be Sara. For all we know Laurel convinced Felicity to do it because she thinks Quentin will die if he finds out Sara's dead and the matter got pretty pressing once he saw footage of "Sara" running around in the streets. If he was bad about asking after her before seeing her, he would've been incessant after. Yeah Felicity was gung-ho about telling Oliver the truth about Thea, but the worst case scenario that would've resulted in was a fractured relationship. Could Felicity deal with lying to Lance if Laurel had her scared that the alternative was Quentin dying? I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

Right, but she didn't kiss him. She didn't ask him out, agree to go out with him, she didn't tell him she loved him or that she cared about him in return, she didn't do anything other than smile at him. She smiled at him after he a) stood in front of a machine gun to protect her and b) told her he'd do it again. He expressed a feeling that she didn't reciprocate. She didn't shoot it down, but she didn't confirm she felt the same way. She just smiled at the guy.

I guess this is where my point of contention with my discomfort is. She's not replacing Oliver's role in her life romantically with Ray - Oliver wasn't in her life romantically. He wanted to be - he would've been if he hadn't been such a dumbass after their date. So what exactly is she getting over quickly? Whatever she feels for Oliver she's locked away in order to not get hurt by/dwell on/be held back by wanting something that Oliver told her she couldn't have, and she did that a while ago. If I didn't feel her kissing Ray betrayed her feelings for Oliver (and I didn't), then why should I feel like a smile does? Yeah, he died, but literally nothing changed in Oliver and Felicity's relationship between that kiss and that smile. Yeah, I would've felt a bit better about it if she'd turned him down, but why would she? She's alone, the guy she wanted and couldn't ever have is dead, and this one whom she obviously likes (unfortunately) says he cares about her, and she's hurting. It was probably nice to hear. I guess my issue is that I wouldn't feel like she was doing anything wrong or betraying her feelings or getting over anything if she was doing these things while Oliver was alive (because she did), so why should I feel that way now that he's dead? I should probably stop thinking about it before it drives me crazy.

Yeah, I definitely see where you're coming from, and I agree. I understand why Felicity needed to move on, both in the story and for the narrative. It would've been OOC for her to wait around for him to change his mind. And Oliver got all comfortable in her being around all the time - he could still be "with" her without actually being with her. Someone needed to change the status quo to give him the kick in the ass he needs to learn that he can only have good things in his life if he takes the chance to grab them, even if it's scary. I was excited for her to get another love interest, but it's not been handled well.

Well, for Oliver, getting involved with someone else really would undersell what they're doing, regardless of declarations of love and what have you, because the whole reason Oliver isn't with Felicity is because he says he can't be Oliver Queen and the Arrow at the same time. If he was saying that to her and then opening himself up to someone else, we know that he's either a) a shitbag b) a liar or c) a nasty combination of the two who just wanted to string Felicity along. Not getting into the Felicity side of things because I really don't know how I feel about it. As I wrote over in her thread, I don't think she's done anything wrong, but that scene with Ray made me uncomfortable, even though I didn't think she was flirting. I can't put a fine point on why it made me feel...off. But I too hope we get her actual feelings in 3x12, not an outburst that's a lie to push Oliver away/deny how she feels/some other kind of drama. I just want her to own it so we know.

But Laurel and Tommy were in a relationship. Oliver and Felicity never were. Felicity was open to Ray before Oliver died, why is it icky now? Oliver is/was one of the people closest to her in her life and a man that she loved even though he was unwilling (for whatever reason) to be with her. Oliver's death changes none of those things. Smiling at Ray changes none of those things. Getting into a relationship with Ray changes none of those things. It was something she did even before Oliver died. That's why I can't figure it out.ETA: not questioning you or your feelings, just examining my own. :)

Thing is, I can't even put a fine point on why that smile made me uncomfortable. She was moving on in Ray's direction even before Oliver died. Nothing happened between her and Oliver between The Calm and The Climb that would've made her dating Ray wrong to me, as long as I put my personal feelings about him aside. Yeah, he told her he loved her, but he'd said as much before and he didn't get her hopes up with a "when I come back we're gonna figure this thing out'." Much as we joke about how they're "so married," they weren't. They weren't even dating. How is she disrespecting Oliver's memory by smiling at a guy who tells her he cares for her and wants to protect her? I didn't expect her to tell Ray she couldn't get in a relationship with him because she loved a man she couldn't be with when Oliver was alive, why would I expect her to do that when he's dead? Is it unfair to get into a relationship with someone when you're in love with someone else? Yeah, but that's true whether the someone else is dead or not. I wish she would've told him a definitive no, but that would be more for my benefit than for hers, haha.

Maybe that's also where the comment about wondering if Oliver can handle what the team's become in his absence-more of a democracy than just Oliver calling most of the shots.

I'm not being rude. Your opinion based on other people's interpretation of one smile in a 42-minute episode is that she didn't love Oliver and that she's moved on. I watched the episode, which consisted of several other scenes that indicate she hasn't moved on. I'm debating with you about something I've watched and you haven't. It's pointless.

Is there a screen cap somewhere that shows Felicity walking through a Hong Kong flashback?

Yeah, given that I actually watched the ep, we will have to agree to disagree.

I can just picture Roy thinking, "NAILED IT."

I agree with you, but I don't think a fond smile towards a guy Felicity is obviously friends with and felt compelled to kiss at one point not too long ago negates or lessens the feelings she had for Oliver at all. She and Oliver weren't together. He took himself out of the running. He didn't do anything before he left that led her to believe things would be different when he returned, so what exactly is she dishonoring by smiling at Ray? Yeah, Oliver told her he loved her before he left, but he's done that how many times in how many ways and never did a damn thing about it? She let him know in The Calm that once he backed off that was it. She'd already been trying to move on from Oliver, it's not like that was something that happened only after he died. Oliver was not an option for her by HIS choice, so I'm not going to judge her for smiling at a guy who stood in front of a machine gun to keep her from getting shot and told her cared about her enough that he'd do it again, especially when that moment sparked something in her that made her want to want to go back to the foundry. She doesn't know Oliver decided he didn't want to die down in the lair. She doesn't know his last thought before he died was of her. She doesn't know he dreamed of her. Yes, that's the problem with telling such a one-sided story with Oliver being so open towards her and Felicity being so closed off to him, but I'm not faulting the character for that. That smile made me uncomfortable, but that's because I know things that she doesn't. And also because I want Ray to rocket off into the sun. We know she loves Oliver. To what extent has she let herself realize it? Is it something she's compartmentalizing to keep herself from hurting? IDK. Hopefully we find out soon.

I actually liked her in 3x10, up until she buckled up and started busting out with idiotic one-liners. Then she was back to typical Laurel in 3x11.

I'm going to give Quentin a pass, because he was obviously getting a little desperate with worry after not hearing from Sara for so long. I think he believed it was her because he wanted it to be her. And probably because he couldn't fathom anyone would be able to use her voice to trick him. He's not the one who looks foolish in this scenario, IMO.

I'm not sure the "you're gonna love it" was about Sara's voice. He was asked if Laurel would use a modulator as BC, and she is. Rather than just say "yes," why not take the chance to inject an oversell in there to get people excited? Not trying to bury my head in the sand-he very well could've been talking about her using Sara's voice. But with the way everything about this BC arc has been oversold, it wouldn't surprise me if he was just talking about the modulator.

My wank is that the smile was her genuinely being touched that he wants to protect her (and that he did protect her when someone pointed a gun at her) and by telling her that he wants to build the suit to protect the people he cares about (she said, "like the city?" or something like that) that she does care about the city-it's her city, and that could be her reason for continuing on. She told Laurel as much, and that was her reasoning getting back into the fold when she went back down to the lair. I just think there wasn't enough nuance there in the acting to get that across.

Sounded to me like he was talking about killing Brick.

Good. Sin did exactly what I hoped she would.