apinknightmare

Which is a shame, because Barry did something more stupid, selfish and unheroic in The Flash finale than I've ever seen Oliver do, haha. And all the supporting characters were made to be idiots to allow it. And I didn't see very many (if any) reviewers even mention it.

I agree. That was kind of my point - people overlook an awful lot due to that likability and lightness, when the writing and the plots and characters suffer from the same weaknesses that Arrow does. So, the acting awards it won, I get. The best adaptation, I don't.

I found LoA Oliver hot, no shame. Not sure how that's any worse than thinking he was hot in his Hood days, back when he was actually out murdering people.

I'm not sure if overrated is the word that I would use, but I do find it interesting that it gets a lot of high praise writing and story-wise, when I can see the same thing happening over there that's happening on Arrow. Idiot moments for the main hero where he has to learn a lesson twice, nonsensical plots, people acting out of character to facilitate plot. I suppose it might be more noticeable and concerning if it goes on for three seasons, but IDK. It's lighter than Arrow is for sure, so I can see why people might find it more enjoyable. I'm not sure that the quality is ultimately that much better though.

Yes

Or maybe that it's not a surprise that a comic book guy liked the comic book heroes and baddies coming into the fold.

She is!

It's my favorite argument against Felicity, because it says more about the people criticizing her than it does about her. I mean, Felicity's selfish and/or a terrible person for having a brief panic about wanting to save the man she loves over a city's population worth of strangers? Like, they'd just leave a loved one there to die? Godspeed to those people's family members/spouses, lmao. Ya'll are on notice!

I can't really remember the question, but I kind of recall him being asked if she was getting the "real" comics cry.

I mean, on one hand, I don't see what the point of bringing the kid in is if it isn't a nod to canon, and if it's a nod to canon then why not name him (or her) Connor? Seems to me they should've locked up the mother's name from the get-go and gotten permission from DC to use her before they even introduced her, especially since this never seemed like some random plot point that was never going to be picked up again. So if she was ever intended to be Sandra, they should've just outright named her. Then again, they are horrible planners, so I suppose that plays a part. On the other hand, if they just wanted a baby story for playboy Oliver without having to bring a kid onto the show, having the mother and kid being some randos in Central City would be the way to do it. Plus, it's a tie in to get Oliver over on The Flash. I just have a hard time believing that these show runners in particular could be swayed from their original plan because of a race issue, especially when they just whitewashed the White Canary, haha. But maybe they were swayed. That would be a nice change.

Oh, I didn't know about this. Maybe they did change their mind. Although a part of me doubts that outrage over whitewashing would be enough to make these guys deviate if they really had a plan for who it was supposed to be. So maybe the kid was always just going to be some kid whose name ultimately doesn't outside of a nod to comics canon. What does that matter? Moira had a private investigator write up a dossier on the girl. She knew what her name was, even if she did hand over a blank check (although why she would, I have no idea).

They were vaguely teasing Ra's and the LoA in a storyline where they were outliers that they hoped to bring in to a main storyline in the future, so I get why they would've teased that. But they brought this woman into the story in Seeing Red and obviously had the intent of following up on it then (IIRC, they said as much), so I don't understand why they wouldn't have locked her name up instead of just teasing comics fans with a nameless woman that everyone would assume was Sandra Hawke anyway. That, to me, is why it seems like they left her nameless to keep their options open - so there weren't any concrete expectations about her or her kid.

Right, that was my initial point. I definitely think they didn't give her a name—both times she showed up—because they wanted to keep their options open.

But Moira had a dossier with the woman's name on it. She had written a check out to her, I'm assuming by using her name. I don't think saying her name in the moment, even if it was a "Ms. (surname)" would've made any difference since she was already paying this woman off to get her first grandchild out of her life. Moira's never shied away from the harsh reality of the terrible things she's done. It just seems to me that given we've seen Oliver's kid's mother in this universe twice with no one mentioning her name, that there's a reason for that.

Seeing Red was definitely about Moira, but I did find it weird that Moira never mentioned her name when they first met, nor during the entire time they were sitting there talking each other, and when Oliver met her in Central City, he didn't mention her name even though she mentioned his. Hasn't MG said all along that the kid was coming back into play? And SA did as well, didn't he? I mean, I really hope they decided to drop it, but it seems ridiculous to remind the audience of a plot point they never intend to visit again or flesh out.

This could very well be the case, but didn't that episode air before MG got a Tumblr? They purposely never gave the mother a name, probably to keep their options open. I'd like to think the change came from him listening to complaints about whitewashing, but it seems to me that they always wanted to be able to change the identity of the kid.

I think the most likely scenario is that Oliver's kid isn't named Connor Hawke. After planting baby mama over on The Flash, I think it's too much to hope that they've decided to drop the storyline all together.

Maybe they'll all be in plain clothes. Or it'll be something above the shoulders.

There wouldn't really be any point to putting Laurel's face on Felicity's body in that scene since Oliver and Laurel have their own sex scene that the person could've drawn, haha.

But this is what the OP posted: Only because she seems to have grown more confident in herself and in her abilities. The comment was that they couldn't imagine Felicity getting excited about hacking into something, not that they couldn't imagine her getting excited about anything.

Isn't that kind of the point? Since in that gif set she's excited she got in, but on The Flash she was so confident in herself that she did a mic drop?

They really messed up that whole sisterly bonding apology thing. At the end of that episode, Sara should've apologized not only for being thoughtless with Oliver back in the day (just as a gesture, since I think she paid for that mistake a thousand times over but she did owe Laurel that much), but for inviting him to that dinner and letting Laurel find out that she and Oliver were back together that way. And I think that would've been a good time for Laurel to apologize for her nastiness when Sara came back. I don't think she had anything to apologize for regarding the dinner, since Sara and Oliver were pretty tacky in some aspects of their relationship, like that dinner and living together in the foundry. They also retconned Laurel and Oliver in order to make Sara the wronged party in the initial Laurel/Oliver hookup when she revealed that Laurel called the cops to get Sara in trouble so she could go out with Oliver. They did a lot of damage to make that pair work only to kill Sara off however many episodes later. So stupid.

I think a lot of it probably has to do with SA being really in tune with what he knows the general audience likes and doesn't like. One of the biggest criticisms early on in the show was Oliver and Laurel, and now that Oliver and Felicity are a popular thing, maybe he doesn't want to go back to a pairing that he knows was generally unpopular.

At least The Flash's is old, too.

No! I'm happy for her as well. It was nice of him to reply to her, and it was a good reply, too.