Gwen-Stacys

I would agree, accept she doesn't always get a spell right. They've shown her praticing spells multiple times before getting them right. I think she's just a Hermione Granger type who doesn't mind studying and actually likes working hard. Not to mention, she has a goal in mind: taking Klaus out without taking Josh and Marcel with him. And, unlike Bonnie who never really got a complete handle on her magic, she's been a practicing witch her entire life. She's more on the level of Luke and Liv who can stop cars with the raise of a hand....but she studies and has access to rare magical items/books as well as Kol who's teaching her new things. Oh my word, I can't say enough how much better this show is than TVD! Mainly because they don't forget that their characters have family and loved ones outside of the people they screw. With how old they are, the Originals has the potention to go on Young and the Restless or All My Children years. There's so much story to be told with them and their family relationships so complex and twisted, yet you can see the warmth there. You can see the love they have (or had) for each other.

I thought it was because her trial was starting the next day? Maybe she thought Nate needed it pronto in order to gather the information needed to truly exonerate her. And I don't think he could have another officer gain a warrent for the Keating house. At that point, all they had was assumptions. Nate didn't even know Lilah was preggers until Anna told him, so he had no way of knowing that the finger would ever be pointed in Sam's direction. You have to have a pretty valid reason in order to get a warrent for someone's home.

I think there can be argument for at least Wes and Rebecca not having a lot of faith in the police. Wes grew up in a poorer area of Ohio and his main reason for wanting to help Rebecca in the beginning (and arguably his main reason for wanting to become an attorny) was that she was a poor girl who couldn't afford the type of attorny able to adequatly handle her case. He knew the justice system would roll her ass over and she would go to jail regardless of whether or not she did it. It would've been white-trash-drug-dealer-bartender VS virginal-universally loved-college-quaterback. She'd probably loose on appearences alone. And it's probably why she confessed in the first place. She knew she was screwed and was probably offered a deal. Growing up in a poorer area, Wes probably witnessed this happening to people a lot (I wonder if it's going to come out that something similar happened to someone in his past and it may have had a hand in his mother's suicide.) and was inspired to do something about it. In that situation, I could see Wes (and even level headed Laurel) thinking that there was a big enough chance that they would get screwed in the long run. Conner and Machaela were convinced because it would ruin their futures regardless. You have to remember that these are people who have already proven that they will lie, double cross, cheat, steal, and even fuck to get what they want/need. They're selfish and already come with shady morals, it's not a giant leap for them to be convinced moreseo because they know having their face in a situation like that (and it would probably be a high profile case) would not be a good look for a future big money lawyer at a fancy law firm. And speaking on Wes, he's been a puppet this entire season. He got close to Rebecca because Anna told him to. He convinced the others to burn Sam's body and chop it up into little pieces because Anna told him to. He even says the same thing at the end of the episode ("I understand", or something like that) that he said back in episode 3 or 4 when he promised to stay on Beck's like white on rice. They emphasized it. Wes is a puppet, not a puppeteer trying to save his lady love. And his relationship with Anna is deliciously weird. They have mad chemistry. If it was after office hours, and like a I mentioned in my post or another one, there is enough evidence there to suggest that Sam, the owner of the house, might not have wanted them to be there in the first place. The second episode more than hinted that the Keating's goor is supposed to be locked after certain hours (Anna made a comment about Frank not locking up after he left again when Wes walked in on her and Nate.). So while Sam did open the door, Machaela basically pushed her way inside. He told her more than once to leave. Put on top of that, the fact that Anna packed a bag and left...Sam knew she wasn't coming back that night. More reason for Michaela not to be there. Or for any of them not to be there. And then, even if the house doubles as an office, the office is downstairs. Why were they all upstairs if they weren't in on Rebecca's plan. And how would they know the Scoobies had been upstairs? Sam was first pushed over the railing. His body would probably have injuries that would suggest a fall of some sort. Connor got punched in the face by Sam...therefore one could prove that he was involved in the fight as well. Conner physically attempted to pull Sam off of Rebecca. So while he didn't have a hand at all in Sam's death, there's enough there to provide resonable doubt to his story. Not to mention, his reputation would be tarnished either way. What law firm could he go to after he graduated, provided the university didn't kick him out first? Like I said before, he probably wasn't thinking as clearly as he should've. Fear and the fact that he in the moment that they were not supposed to be there could've resulted in him acting irrationally. And once they all left the scene and came back, his window of oppurtunity.....I don't know, I just think it would look bad. Like "If you truly had nothing to do with it, why didn't you just call the police?" Not to mention, he's not the most....truthful of people in the first place. They'd murder his character and his word during the trial regardless. And then who's to say he didn't just roll over on his friends to save his own ass? IDK, I think there's too many factors involved for me to believe that Conner would've been able to walk away from that situation completely unscathed. And I think that he knew that. (And now, his ex-boyfriend can testify that he may or may not have a drug problem. That could hint at his involvement with Rebecca being deeper than he let on.) Because he was suspened (or fired) two or three episodes ago.

Jaha landed on the East coast north of where the Arc crash landed. Ehhh...I mean, you can drive from Loudoun to DC in an hour+ (depending on traffic). Then take into consideration that they don't have to walk through roundabouts or contend with highways/interstates that sometimes takes you around and then in (navigating 495 around DC, VA, MD can be wicked tricky if you're not familiar with it), can walk in a direct path without worrying about neighborhoods;buildings; etc.....it might not be more than a 1+ day walk to get from MW to the memorial.

But wouldn't it really just come down to them being in Sam's house though. Each one of them got slugged by Sam, I'd think any attorny would take their bruises into consideration (or even their testimony that there was a tussle) and flip that to a jury. Obviously Sam didn't want them there, there's enough physical evidence to introduce that as an option to the jury. And from what I've heard from people who have been on jurries before, it's never proving someone's guilty...and always proving that they're innocent. There's enough there to side eye there reasons for being there and the situation surrounding their pressence there. As for them calling the police, there is a theory that minorities and people who come from lower income backgrounds tend to...not trust the police. Makayla, Wes, Rebcca, and Laurel (well the actress) are minorites, and three of them come from lower income families. It's not out of the realm of possibilites that they didn't trust the police to see it as self defense....and Rebecca, who's already on trial for murder, being there as well? Nah

I don't get people saying that the gang all covered up Sam's death to help Rebecca. They didn't. They each (minus Conner) had a hand in killing Sam and all of them were there trespassing. Not to mention, they were helping Rebecca get the hard drive she'd stolen (Moslty because they believed Sam really did kill Lyla and the proof was on the drive) and, like Laurel said, stealing someone's personal information like that is felony in 2014. Makayla pushed Sam down the stairs because he chased after Laurel, not to mention she brought the trophy (which Asher can attest to because she stole it from his house) to Annalise's. On top of all that, THEY WERE ALL TRESPASSING! Sam told them all to leave, even Makayla when she first got there, and they refused to. I think all of them taking part in the cover up had more to do with them not wanting to have a black mark on their record come graduation time, because every one of them would at least get into some trouble. I loved the twist at the end when you find out Annalise was the one telling Wes how to get rid of the body.

Well I mean, if we're going on the assumption that these events (Jaha landing in the desert and him and Kane seeing other) are taking place a week or two apart, it's not that giant a leap of logic. The average human can cover 20 miles in a day if they're just walking, but we also know that the desert people have horses too.

I think it's because they're setting her up to be a serious honest to goodness reporter. There are plenty of reporters IRL who put their lives on the line for the sake of "getting the truth out there". From going to warzones or countries that are obviously anti-their country of origin, it happens. And it also could just be stubborness. The more people threaten her, the more gungho she is about it. Some people (myself) just opperate that way. I continue to love all of the Flashbacks (he he he) with the WestAllen family. Joe continues to be my favorite character and one that I would actually really really be upset if he dies (which is why I think he very well might). And I laughed outloud at baby!Iris taking out baby!Barry...and then older Iris being the one to coldcock Tony, saving Barry from ass-whooping #4. I like that The Flash continues to be cheesy. Cheese can be a good thing, and Flash has yet to turn into bad cheese for me.

Eh. I understood it. He's a parent now and his daughter is in danger if his mother finds out she's still alive. Marcel doesn't even know that she's alive anymore; only Becks, Klaus, Hayley, and Elijah, people who won't be moved to give her up. Ever. Klaus doesn't know his father, and even if he was being truthful about not wanting to hurt Hope, Klaus couldn't take the chance that Ansel might be the reason Esther finds out she's been duped. I think because Esther's goal is to kill ALL vampires (by killing her children's original bodies and sticking them in normal mortal witch bodies). Davina doesn't want Josh or Marcel (no matter how angry she gets with him) to die. She's said that she doesn't have anyone but Marcel, and she can see that he does legitimately care for her wellbeing.

It's pretty common for people to dislike Damon on first meet, especially if they have no sexual interest in them. He's kind of intrusive and a lot of annoying. He can be entertaining to watch, but people like him in real life are the woooooorst. If I was trying go out on a date with someone and his random friend showed up to stalk his girlfriend (and my student), I'd be side-eyeing the hell out of him too. Like what kind of person.....? I didn't understand that either. Even if she put her magic into the bear....they all were still touching and she was holding the mcguffin.

No one's saying that she's a trained fighter, just that she isn't starting from scratch (the basics of fighting). In the comics, Laurel is superhuman so her agility, strength, and all that business was there...she just capitalized on it with Ted Grant's training. I think people are just saying that she isn't going to go from Felicity (I hate comparing female characters, but it actually works here) to Nyssa in months, because she already started at a much higher level than Felicity in terms of combat. And yes, knowing how and where to hit someone can help you out a lot even if you haven't been in numerous fights. Punching and kicking someone isn't as straight up as most people assume, you have to know how to move your body, you have to know what body part of yours your ment to hit someone with in order to do less damage to yourself (please don't kick anyone with the top of your foot, you will break it). If you have a foundation for that (Ollie and Sarah didn't) you actually have a greater learning curve (although this is just from my personal experience. YMMV). I think they have a right to read her about her actions (read=tell her off, tell her about herself) and to be loud and vocal about their dissaproval, but she's a grown ass woman. The don't have a right to tell her not to do anything. Even if she was drinking again, they could tell her not to drink or take away her alcohol, but they can't stop her from going out and buying another bottle. And to wit, Oliver has made an ass load of dumbass decisions that other people have paid for (some even paid with their lives). Why is it okay if he does it but it's not okay if she does it (excluding a dislike certain viewers may have of her?). That's why everyone (even recappers of this episode) have been fairly unanimous in calling Oliver out for his hypocracy. Because he is being a hypocrit in everyway. She asked him for his help, and he had every oppurtunity to take her under his wing and teach her not to make the same mistakes that he did, but he didn't want to. I like that she didn't just back down from it, she went out and found herself another 9canonical) mentor to teach her. Good for. Ted Grant will be good for her; teaching her to channel her anger/obsession and not letting it control her. Over his shoulder like a sack of potatoes, apparently. I didn't see it as pandering, more like tv shows like to have scenes where the action/super hero walks away from the reckage carrying a passed out female like she's a prop. (#things that rarely ever happened in Nikita!)

Comic book fans (and a lot of boys) didn't like last week but liked this week because of all the comic shout outs. I'm not a boy, but I was one who enjoyed it (I did read comics though, so....) I laugh snorted. Thank you! I was waiting for someone to acknowledge this!! I had to pause and rewind because I thought I'd misheard. One thing I will say that Smallville has over Arrow is SV's Ollie was hella charismatic. He was still a smarmy douche, but he wasn't overtly hypocritical....and he was funny. And at least acted fairly educated. He never gave off LAX bro vibes, and it was fairly believable that he could run a company (and he actually had an interest in it.). Granted, SV!Ollie's biggest island obstacle was all the mosquitos. And about Laurel suddenly being capable...Laurel has held her own in fights since early season one. Case in point, one of the first few episodes when Oliver and Tommy were getting jumped in a club and she came out and basically saved them. She used to be extremely capable, but season 2 happened and I think the writers forgot that they did that? Even so, they have enough ground to stand on to say that she didn't exactly start from scratch (like others on the show). Edit* Ollie also has no right to tell anyone that they can't be a vigilante. Laurel has her reasons (grounded in her belief, expressed over 1 1/2 seasons, that the little people need someone to look out for them.) and it's her perogative to do whatever she wants. He's not her father, he's not f*cking her, he's not paying her bills, he's not feeding her...He's her friend. He can make suggestions, but not demands. They shouldn't have made this Oliver so Dark Knight-esque. It makes sense for Bruce Wayne to be that way because he's weird, traumatized, and highly intelligent...Oliver not so much.

In the vein of her point, I think her point is that Scott has the oppertunity to have a more organic journey into becoming a bisexual male. He's a very open person and people naturally flock to him. Fans of the Sterek pairing tend to morph Derek's loyalty and protectiveness towards Scott and try to shift it onto Stiles. If Derek were to randomnly fall for a guy, it would be Scott. Scott the person he sat next to and stayed with in Deaton's veterinary hospital after he'd been injured; the person he stalked all day long because he thought he was in trouble (season 3 with the Oni); the only person who, outside of Brayden and Peter, expressed a concern about him losing his abilities. Long story short, it would be a more organic coming out story/journey (all without taking the focus off of the show's main protagonist, as online people tend to forget that he is) if Derek Hale, president of the Scott McCall fanclub, fell in love with Scott. Not that I want any of that to happen at all! I still maintain that Derek (and Scott, and Styles) are pretty hetero. They could maybe be bisexual, but hetero-romantic? But mostly straight as that is where their interests lie.

I think Rebecca saying she killed Sam was total Red Herring and'll end up being her practicing confessing to the police? Right after she says it, Wes asks her what she's doing and she responds by saying, "Let me help you!" Her reaction to Lila's mother calling her a killer and the moment she had alone in the hallway after she left Wes' makes me think that she's just a prickly person with trust issues and no a sociopath. I'm echoing the Asher love. He is hilarious

Why? She did hate Damon and made it abundantly clear...It's pretty much common knowledge. And his "manpain" was very much in character for a 17 year old kid who has literally lost everyone he's ever cared about: Both his parents, the person his sister used to be, his aunt Jenna, his uncle John, Alaric (before he came back to life), all of his girlfriends: Vicky, Anna, and Bonnie, his childhood home bc his sister couldn't deal, etc. To be honest, he's the only character on this show who has a right to mopey and whiny, and yet everyone keeps telling him to get over it...while coddling his older sister. The more I think about it, the more I hate this show. I am officially hate-watching...and now I'm whining. It's catching

I'm calling it now with the revelation that Jo is a maybe witch (Unless TVD is bringing in the whole angel arc...or going full on TB and introducing Fairies) that she's the one sibling Kai didn't kill. Her whole "the men in my life always suck/are evil" shtick really made me think it too. (I know I said I'd quit this show, but it comes on before Reign....it's like sucking in air when you know you have sensitive teeth and or cavities. It's painful and yet you can't help but do it anyway.)

IDK, I disagree. I think EK is competent enough that people understood where Beth's headspace was by the end of the episode. (Heck, my dad and my male co-workers all understood it and they never get anything.) And while it was Noah's plan, he would've died without Beth's assistance. Between the two of them, she was the only one actively pushing them forward and killing zombies. Her shooting got lead them to the exit since Noah dropped the flashlight. So while, yes, there are more competent killing machines in the Grimes' expanded family group, Beth isn't exactly a slouch either. Babysitting and staying behind aside. Like she said, she's not a Michonne, Maggie, or Carol but she's still there and that says something. Especially since the other "weak" members of the group have been killed off already. I thought the same thing! Someone else posted the same theory further up thread somewhere. I think they just happened to see Beth, hit her over the head, and snatched her up. it would also correlate when taking the entire scene into context, IE Daryl chasing after the car. The most definitely saw him and that's why they took off so quickly. There's never enough Judith. I didn't mind this episode so much and I liked that they touched on a subject that most likely would happen in a scenario like the ZA. People's base natures going unchecked leads to unsavory happening, like women and children being raped and passed around... sometimes weaker men too. Also how things like that could wear on decent people who allow it to happen because they don't feel like they're strong enough to stop them or it's an unspoken bargain to maintain a terse order.

I didn't feel anything for Rick telling Stefan off. I think I actually side-eyed the television from my kitchen. Like...Pop's from Blackish side eye, or Samuel L Jackson side eye. He's your best friend, Rick? You mean after he killed your wife, killed you multiple times just for the heck of it (leading to you going crazy), tormented Elena, and killed Jeremy? Oh yea, but I forgot, seasons 1-2 1/2 (post Kevin W./the rise of Plec and Plies) don't exist anymore. No one has any right to tell Stefan off like their love for Damon could ever match his. He was his brother for 200 years and in everyone else's life for like what? 3? You can miss me with all that self-righteous bullshit. Especially after Rick just compelled Elena to forget him. What kind of hypocritical, devil's knot of a show?!?! I did, however, appreciate that Stefan was the first person that Damon came back to. I've been waiting for this show to focus on the Salvatore bros relationship from the very beginning. (People would probably enjoy the show if it focused more on the Salvatore's than focusing on whichever Salvatore dick Elena's hopping on this season. Just look at Supernatural! 10 seasons strong and a higher rating/share than TVD still!) Stefan was being a dick to Caroline by saddling her with Ivy. But I did understand his reasoning, if Caro and Enzo had left him alone then none of that (Ivy being killed and turned) would have ever happened. Still didn't change the fact that he was being a dick about it. And I hope Elena saving that chick comes back to bite her in the ass. She thought it was heroic, but it came off as kind of sanctimonious, especially when Liam ended up saving another girl without magic. All the while Elena's screaming in the background "But I can do it! Watch me!"

You actually did see growth within the episode though? She learned (the hard way) that you can't go into a situation with good intentions and a baseball bat and hope to come out the other end okay. She called in an anonymous tip on the woman-beating-douchebag and she signed up to learn how to be a more efficient fighter (by the person who actually trains BC in the comic book. BC never had an assassin-esque background.). She acknowledged that she has issues with channeling grief and sought an alternative method to her previous attempts. That's a character learning from bad choices and making attempts to avoid similar outcomes in the future. Felicity helping Laurel didn't show that Felicity is a better person, it just showed that Felicity is willing to help someone/Laurel is an attorney and sometimes might need information she can't necessarily obtain through legal means. (please stop trying to raise up one female character by pushing down another one, in-character-Felicity probably wouldn't be very down for that. She's awesome on her own without the need for comparison)

I thought the people over on ONTD were joking about this, but I guess not. Sorry, I have a thing about people laughing at women or people in general getting beat to the point of hospitalization....whether they're a real person or a fictional one. ....but humor is a subjective thing, I suppose. Moving on: I loved the storylines involving all of the women this episode! I knew in season 1 they were going to give Thea the Mia Dearden SL (minus the HIV and prostitution bits), so it was a nice little shout out that her island name is Mia (middle name Dearden). Her second scene with Oliver was very touching...but weirdly cut by the following scene of Ollie, Diggle, Roy, and the Argus storyline. I actually laughed at Felicity voicing her refusal to be anyone's coffee pusher...only to find out that she had her own personal coffee pusher. The dynamic she has with Ray is refreshing and I hope they draw that relationship out for longer than a season, because they're super entertaining together. Great multi-tasker that one. Note: I don't think Laurel asking Felicity to get information for her was particularly bitchy and neither was Felicity's response to her. Laurel likes efficiency and Felicity's the most efficient person she knows that won't ask her why she's looking up information on certain people. Felicity is also a very foot-in-mouth character who says things as she thinks them. Oliver used Felicity in pretty much the same vein as Laurel in season 1 (it's actually the foundation of Olicity); Felicity even gave him shit about it. Just pointing it out for those who'd like to tack that onto their reasons for hating Laurel. I'm soooo happy they're going this route with Laurel's storyline. I liked that she went out and tried to "do good" but it went totally wrong. She's out of her depth in the vigilante field, and Sara giving Laurel her jacket didn't magically make her anything. It just gave her the courage and the push to start on her canon path. I also liked that Oliver turned her down when she asked him to train her (dumb on his part if he's trying to protect her, but completely understandable in context). The Black Canary (as well as other great fighters in the DC universe) is trained by Ted Grant and I AM HERE FOR THIS! The ARGUS stuff, however.....I was not here for.

Oh yea, I can agree with it being completely riddled with holes, but I also know when I watch certain shows there's going to be a few things I'm going to have to handwave (specifically for shows on The CW...I'd already have frown lines from all the "really?" faces I pulled if I didn't). Same as when Felicity told Ray to freeze the bomb using the AC....(and on top of that, how the people right behind him didn't notice a damn thing. If the air coming out of that vent was cold enough to freeze a damn bomb, those people would've felt the temperature change from where they were standing). I'm honestly waiting for the day they have Felicity hack a person...or a virus, because, you know, that works. (have they not done that last one already?) But, like I said, I've become an expert at handwavium, to the point where I automatically fill in the logic holes as I go along.

I also came back and said that 1) It wasn't her gun so her not knowing it wasn't loaded after they showed her loading it in an earlier scene isn't that far fetched 2)She lives in America where my 80 years old great aunt can (and probably does knowing her) can own a shotgun/hand gun without knowing how to use it. 3)While she does have experience with guns, I repeat, it wasn't her gun and she'd loaded it in an earlier scene. 4) She does serve a purpose, just because a few people dislike her character doesn't diminish that fact

To both of these comments I still say (and repeat what I said earlier), if you are not familiar with a certain gun (IE it is a gun that you have trained with specifically) it isn't out of the realm of possibility for you to pick it up and not notice the desparity in weight between when it's loaded and when it isn't. Had they shown her actively check the clip and then proceed to shoot anyway then I'd agree with you. But they established that she was being driven on pure emotion and not exactly thinking rationally. Maybe she just grabbed the same gun she took out, slammed the clip back in without even looking at it, and took off. (Fan wank? Sure. But this show also fanwanks people's hacking abilities to the nth degree among other things.)

Outside of Moira's death last season and Thea's reaction to it, I never thought Arrow was all that great at handling death scenes or how it affects people in the long run. Then again, this is a comic book show that draws a pretty decent male viewership rating and not like...The Vampire Diaries. I felt that Felicity was more in awe of Sara than actually, IDK...friends with her? They were warm with each other (because they're warm characters when you think about it) but definitely like besties. That whole scene where she's in awe of how small Sara's hands are kind of drove that home for me. And I actually liked that scene where Laurel is confused as to why she can only think about a stupid stuffed toy and how she needs to find it. I thought that was a very well done (and real) scene. When you loose people close to you, you focus on the most random things...and then after that, you focus on the unfairness off it (especially if it was a particularly violent death). But then again, YMMV. It was very in character how she saught an outlet for her grief instead of facing it. She did it with Tommy's death twice over (first her vendetta against the arrow, and when that was out, alcoholism). I think the point is that she isn't grieving. She, like Oliver and most comic book Superheros, is burying her grief in a cause. Does it suck? Yea, but thems the breaks. IDK, I know two daughters of cops who know nothing about the ins and outs of guns and how they opperate. Being related to a cop =/= gun knowledge in the slightest. THey just know when dad brings his gun home from work , you do NOT touch it/you're never going to guess his safe combination. So that's not a handwave, it's a very realistic propability. If Laurel was a country girl that had grown up in a family that loved to hunt, then you'd have something. Either way, I always thought it took a professional (and someone really familiar with that certain gun) to be able to tell wether or not it's loaded. I thought it worked. She hasn't been with the group for a long time and she (like Felicity) is an independent female who can make up her own mind. Laurel, as a lawyer, is someone used to being in the trenches and actively searching out answers; she's not going to let someone sideline her especially when it has to do with her sister. And especially since the last time her sister died, there was nothing she could do about. Now she can and she got answer sfaster than Ollie and co did. I'm sure she'll get her training same as Thea.

I'm really starting get a little...mehh with Arrow recently. I know that Felicity is a board favorite and most on here would love an entire episode of just her, but I thought they showed her too much on an episode about Sara Lance. I wish there had been more Ollie, Quintin, and Laurel as the people who are/were closest to Sara. I liked that Laurel was more aggressive tonight and not taking any part of Olliver bossing her around. It is slowly building to who she is as BC, a partner to GA, not one of his flunkies/soldiers. (and the more interesting character between the two in the comics). Her being agressive and bossy made sense: her little sister was shot down in front of her. Most people aren't rational when loved ones die a violent death, much less so when it happens in front of them. (Think Batman and how fucked in the head he is) And if you're not familiar with guns, it isn't all that surprising that she didn't know it was loaded. (Should she have checked the clip? yes...but again she wasn't thinking straight.) I'm excited for her taking over as BC and they are technically following her arc in the comics (although she takes over for her mother and not her sister...who doesn't exist in the comics.) And Heck yes, I'm ready for Speedy to come home next week. (Missed you Thea and Malcom!). Interested to see if they'll go the comic route with Ras Al Ghul (as he's primarily involved Batman universe if I'm remembering correctly.) where