Gwen-Stacys

Ehhh, I agree and disagree honestly. I'm completely this show's target audience, I guess, because I (and everyone I watched with) was laughing at that part. And I thought it was pretty in character for where both of these characters are/what teenage boy might really do in that situation. Especially Scott, who tends to have the best intentions, but is NOT the sharpest tool in the shed. I loved Stile's reaction when he opened the shower curtain and saw Liam tied up -it was a mixture of disgust, exasperation, disapointment and anger. Exactly what a person would do if they discovered their best friend had done something stupid and dragged them into it. "Fuck....we are going to get in so much trouble. You would call me...." Scott and Stiles (and Allison) are not above kidnapping, they did it to Jackson back in season 2 when they knew he was unknowingly killing people. I just see it as them jumping the gun this time to try and stop anyone else from getting hurt. And if you remember, they had very callous conversations outside of the van they held Jackson in...within hearing distance. Stiles wanted to just kill Jackson then, him willing to give Liam the benefit of doubt screams character developement to me. Stiles has always been callous and abrassive with the things he says (it's why some people actually don't like Stile's character...he can be a douche sometimes.). For example, when he made that comment to Issaac about still not being over being an abused child in early 3B (the scene Kira comes up to their lunch table). He's sarcastic and he's (sometimes) brutally honest and forthright about what he thinks. It's why Scott has been his only friend for the longest time. Him making sarcastic (yet truthful) quips within hearing range of Liam is not OOC for Stiles. Same as kidnapping a fellow student is not OOC for Scott either.

Even if they aren't going to be endgame (I honestly don't think JD is big on Endgames or any of them ending up with anyone from the were friends with in HS), I think Stiles and Malia really work right now. For Stiles, Malia is someone he can be open with about his time being a Nogitsune (and maybe even about the guilt he has about his mother's death) and he knows that she won't judge him or look at him any differently. Seeing how she is, I doubt she'd even comfort him either, just sit there and listen. She was the first person he opened up to during his ordeal last season, makes sense that she'd be the one he opened up to about it after. And for Malia she has the same with Stiles. Accept she won't talk about her guilt, but Stiles knows that it's there. And they get each other in a way that no one else can right now. Stiles probably feels like he's to blame for Allison's death, same has Malia feels (knows) she is to blame for her mother and sister dying. They see that guilt in each other and they don't try to explain it away or reasure the other that it isn't their fault. I don't know, they just work for me. I really want the parents to start a book club or something with Deaton. Maybe they go through all of Gerard's old books and read them together so that they can be even more in the know about what the hell is going on.

I'm glad they finally touched on the guilt Malia still feels about killing her family. I wondered if they were going to just keep ignoring that bit. If I remember correctly, the guilt she felt about the accident was why she wanted to go back to being a coyote back in the Echein house episode. It made sense that that would be why she was still so feral and out of control on a full moon even though she was born were-creature.

But for them to know about the Banshee family (that no one else had a clue about) but not know about Malia -the teenage girl who showed up after 8 years- would make them pretty sloppy. I'm on the Gerard is it, train. Or Allison's death wasn't real and she was taken over by the Nogitsune....I don't know, now I'm reaching.

I think it makes more sense for them to be odds as opposed to dollar amounts for the reasons you stated above. Not to mention, why start at the top of the list (the harder to kill) as oppposed to the bottom (easier, and helps you get into a homicidal rythym.). The Windigo family got taken out without much of a fight from the sounds of it. The Hales seem to be hard to kill (large house fires excluded) and Kira's pretty agile. Lydia being lower than Scott makes sense also, being a Banshee she would probably be tipped off to a person coming to kill her, while Scott is naive and pretty easy to lull into a false sense of security (If freshman hunter played her cards right, she could probably take Scott out by herself).

I saw someone on another site speculate that Peter Hale might have a connection to the Benefactor. His name wasn't on the Dead Pool list (while the family that was wiped out last episode were still on there) and neither is his daughter's. Also, how did he fight off The Mute with a wolve's bane soaked axe inbedded in his chest? More importantly, why didn't they show us that fight? Derek's name is on the list, but Peter has already killed his niece , I don't see him having a problem killing his nephew. Evil TV dad's are always secretly protective of their progeny, maybe that's why Malia was off the list? I don't know, I just thought it was an interesting theory. Peter not being The Benefactor, but working with them to acheive some end for him. That Peter is always plotting something

So... the numbers next to everyone's name on the DP list were the odds, right? The ones with the lowest numbers would earn you more money because they're harder to kill? Also something of note, neither Peter nor Malia's names were on that list (along with Mrs. Yukimura)...I'm going to take my thoughts on that to the specualtion thread. All in all, I loved this episode! Any episode that has Stiles and Scott being wacky and ineffectual together is going to be an episode that I love. I also liked that Stiles wasn't Malia's anchor, he just understood that her lack of control was tied into her grief. I know there are some that don't like those two together, but I do. This episode highlighted why they were drawn towards each other: they both have deep rooted guilt about things they did when they weren't in complete control of themselves. No one else in their group could understand that. More Derek with the adults always! His characters works better when he's with Stillinski sr. and Chris. Why didn't Lydia just shoo the freshmen away? Why even risk doing further damage to the lake house her family needs to sell? That didn't make any sense to me. But that scene where she broke down about her family's money problems was both heartbreaking and very real. Makes sense now why her mother is still subbing at the school. The key to the DP list being Allison gave me season 1 feels: Peter: His username is Allison and his password is also Allison? Stiles: You still want him in your pack?

It looked like they were both doing derivatives, so Calculus or Pre-Calc, right? I don't know, I can fan-wave it and say that Lydia is in class with Stiles and Malia because they live in a small town/go to a small school. Maybe they don't have a class to put her in? Plus, no one knows the real story behind where Malia has been for 8 years, maybe the Scooby gang smudged her transcript a little so that she would always be in a class with at least one of them. That way they could watch her. ( I think the best part of this show is seeing how far outside of the box you have be to fix plot holes. Although the fudging her transcript isn't that unbelievable.)

Then she refuses to go, but it doesn't change the fact that she needs it. And she only missed out on one therapy session, she went to the second one. She didn't go (as she says) because she didn't see the point. The Wilsons are, just like you say she is, stuck in their own pain and not thinking about what sort of damage this all might've done to Carter, Elizabeth especially. Instead of trying to bond with Carter, she's focusing most of her energy on finding Lori, the woman Carter (understandably) identifies as her mother. Elizabeth is so engrossed in her Crusade that she doesn't see or understand what it is doing to her daughter. Her husband tries to tell her but she doesn't listen. It takes Carter spelling it out for her in therapy (paraphrasing: I don't know any of you. And even though you tell me I'm a part of you and your family, I don't feel that way. You hunting down my kidnapper is making me hate and resent you) for her to understand. I doubt it'll even change anything Elizabeth does. Carter basically told Elizabeth that she's not even really making an effort to learn who Carter is as opposed to trying to hold onto who Linden was. I understand where both Carter and Elizabeth are coming from and sympathize with both. I sympathize with everyone. This is the first show I've seen in awhile where I like and understand/empathize with every single character. PS: Does anyone else think that Gabe knows about his father and Elizabeth? If he does (or even suspects), it'd make sense why he was so gungho about pulling that prank on her. Teens are that petty and vindictive

She has shown empathy for her siblings, her brother at least. Grant sat down with her and explained what Elizabeth had gone through (with both he and Carter), there's a beat there where you can see she's thinking about. But I think Elizabeth is shooting herself in the foot when it comes to Carter. Most teens don't like to know that their parents are snooping on them, much less a parent that they didn't even know existed 2 weeks ago. Right now she can't feel empathy; she doesn't have the emotional capacity to think about anyone else outside of herself right now. I agree with the other posters who've said that Carter needs to be in therapy on her own as well as family therapy. She needs someone that she can talk to and help her sort out her feelings and anger. She's focusing the brunt of her anger on Elizabeth because...Elizabeth is there. I think she is mad at her kidnapper, but she hasn't gotten the help she needs to figure it out. What she's going through right now would be enough to put a grown up in years and years of therapy, and she's only 16. I can cut her some slack for the first season, at least. (I'm guessing they're only doing 6 or 8 episodes, right?)

Is Deputy Parish gonna turn out to be the male version of a banshee? I don't know...I mean, why else would he be okay with a teenage girl roaming around a house currently involved in an open murder case?

Maybe they have an online takeout service for Windigos and they ship them in? I really liked this episode. I think this season is going to be a "rebuilding season", one where they establish new characters since so many of the old ones left.

I don't think you can compare Kate/Derek to Malia/Stiles in any instance. (The only comparison to K/D in cannon is perhaps Erica/Derek or Stiles/Derek in fanon.). Malia for one, isn't using Stiles for malicious intent and they're in the same age group. About the scratches, Stiles honestly just seemed annoyed by them. Kind of like a girl (or boy) that has a make-out session with their S/O and the next day finds out they have a hickey! It's annoying and it hurts, but they didn't mind it while it was going on. Ya'll are hopping on this dub/con train like Jeff and co fucked up the scene on a Cersei/Jamie Lannister not supposed to be a rape scene, rape scene. Or Elena Gilbert fucking her ex-boyfriends brother while under mystical influence. It's nowhere near. It's basically Malia giving Stiles a hickey (which also hurts, for those who don't know. I'd rather get scratched) and Scott's "Holly..." reaction fits that. It wasn't a "Holly...I'm worried for your mental and physical health. You need to tell someone and get help." It was a "Holy....! Dude...I'm both surprised and amazed. Maybe a little jealous. Maybe you should give me lessons." ^That is it. Anything else you say about this scene is pure speculation/fanon and not cannon. But this is the Malia thread...maybe we should make a Stalia thread for discussion?

And I'm the "Stiles would say something if he didn't like it" train. Even if it's just an offhanded comment he drops at random. He seems to like her for the most part, if he didn't we'd know. He was most upset in the latter part of his a Scott's rushed hallways conversation when he expressed concerns about being dishonest with her. His comment about her know he's keeping something from her (Peter) I think was him projecting his guilt onto her. I don't think she has a clue.

Oh! And I forgot about the big parallel they did this episode with how the Scooby gang withholds vital information instead of sharing it. 1). With bb!Derek they chose not to tell him the truth about his family and Kate's involvement and it put him at a disadvantage, leaving him open to manipulation. If they had brought him to Peter earlier, they could've told him the truth and Peter has the past knowledge to convince Derek they were telling him the truth. 2).They're doing the same thing with Malia and not telling her what they know about her potential paternal parentage. Is this omission going to come back bite them in the butt the way it did with Malia's cousin?

And that's fine, but there have been people (on tumblr) who said much of the same things that've been said on this board and then backpeddled, admitting that they just didn't like her and were throwing out random reasons. Who was made to look like an asshole? Not Mr. Yukimura. Kira's dad is known for putting people on the spot. That's just who he's always been and it's played for laughs. That scene had more of a humerous tilt to it as well as giving a nod to what will be happening in episodes down the road (Lydia teaching Malia outside of school to help her catch up.). She is behind and that scene established that (but it was cute how both Stiles and Scott didn't raise their hands when Mr. Yukimura asked who did know the answer.) I thought Scott's "Oh, so now you're dating" was supposed to further the notion that they did. It's well within the show's characterization Scott that he'd connect sex to a commited relationship. Tack onto that Stile's "Yea, wild right?" response. I'm fairly certain that they're sexin' and big time (also why Scott had such a goofy look on his face while he was listening to Stiles.)

It is a very big aspect of it, but it does happen outside of fanfiction. Bella Swan, for example, is one of the most recent literary versions of it that I can think of. But this is the exact point I was trying to make: Malia isn't a Mary Sue because she isn't a self-insert and she is nowhere near perfect. Last night's episode furthers that. Not everyone loves her or changes who they are because they're in her presence in she farts rainbows and cupcakes. Her own (maybe) father left her behind to save himself and never bothered to check on her afterwards. She wasn't sure how to fight the Berzerker, so there was a beat there where she waited to see what Scott would do before she made a move. Then she promptly got her ass handed to her. Her Knight in nuetral v-neck was her (maybe) cousin...who came running to save Scott, not her. I'm really not seeing the Mary Sue thing and am starting think it has more and more to do with people just not wanting to like Malia and feeling they need a reason to do so. So they hop on the "But she's a Mary Sue!" bandwagon. If you don't like her, you don't need to have a reason. Just say you don't. Exactly! I think they were scratches? Like...rough sex is what I'm thinking they're hinting to? I don't know.

Hey hey hey, money doesn't keep you from being a loser...or that one guy in town. I liked this episode. JD was kidding when he said that they're were bringing back season 1-2 silliness. It's just a little jarring after last year’s delve into American Horror Story territory.

I think the point she's trying to make is that, in the context of the show, her name isn't all that exotic when you compare it to the other names we've already been introduced to. Same as my point, she's not anymore special that anyone else on the show. I even gave examples. But I think we'll forever be at an impasse on the subject of Malia being a Mary Sue. Sshe really does not fit the definition. The only thing special about her is that she's a Hale (maybe). She's not even the only other WERE on the show. Or even a special other (Kitsune/Banshee). What she is, people can teach her how to control and hone because they are the same as she is. Mary Sue, no matter how you spin the definition, is a synonym for Special Snowflake/other...that of which Malia is not. I've even given you examples of why I think you're wrong in the instances that you provided me. You can share your examples if you want, maybe I'll understand then. But Mary Sue does not always =/= underdeveloped. Elena Gilbert is a very developed character, but she's a Mary Sue through and through. Cora Hale was woefully underdeveloped, but she was in no way a Mary Sue. Same thing with Erica.

But she's not Mary-suish is what I'm saying, she'sunderdeveloped. There's a very destinct difference. Mary-Sues are perfect, shiny-haired, self inserts. If you want a tv character turned into a Mary-Sue it's Elena Gilbert on Vampire Diaries. If you compare Elena and her golden vagina to what we've seen of Malia, you'll see what I'm saying. Is she completely wonderfully developed character a-la a Game of Thrones/The Walking Dead character? Fook no! But no one on this show is. Their motivations/characterizations change from episode to episode depending on what the show needs them to be in the moment. Derek's aggressive because he has issues. We've seen how he was a young boy, and he was no where near as aggressive as he is now. But aggression is a Were-trait, as seen in Scott come season 1 before he became the werewolf-Jesus. Issaac was aggressive in the beginning, etc. And even so, Cora and Malia aren't as hands-on violent as Derek is. Malia hit Stiles because she was mad at him. And it was the equivalent to the "You did me wrong. I'm angry at you, how dare you try to come up and talk to me like we're cool" slap that happens in movies/tv shows/and real life. She even explains why she did it 2 scenes later. And that is the only time she's ever shown aggression towards anyone that wasn't threatening her in some way. She's been pretty chill. Blunt, but chill. The beginning of your paragraph is the exact same thing I've been saying he's probably doing with Malia. It takes awhile to flesh a character out. And she hasn't just been dropped into their lives. The Mexico event happened 2 months after season 3B ended. She has connections to them, but if she didn't why the hell would she even be in the story? What would her point be? To be Stiles' love interest and the female were that Jeff has always wanted in Scott's pack. Boyd, Erica, and Isaac were only included in the story because of their connection to Derek -he was their maker. Kate is an argent, Derek's ex (much older) girlfriend, who burned down his family home with his family inside, drove his uncle crazy, was killed by said uncle, but survived because he scratchedd her deep enough to infect her. I've already described Kira's background. Lydia is the popular girl genius who was the girl Stiles' crushed on, was bitten by Peter because of it, just so happened to be immune, was the instrument Peter used to bring himself back to life, and is now a Banshee to make her more intigral to the overall story. Malia is a girl who killed her mom and sister, turned into a coyote because she couldn't handle the guilt, was a closed case that Stiles' father re-opened because he could look at it in a new, supernatural light, was forced to turn human, was sent to an insane assylum, met Stiles and agreed to help him as a bargain for something she wanted, connected with him and hooked up with him (a lets be honest, teenagers, college kids, humans hook up with random people with less of a connection than these two had so it isn't as out of the realm of plausibility as some are making it out to be.), went to find him and the person he promised could help her. Oh, and she so happens to be Peter's daughter. Most of this, we've already seen on screen and wasn't info dumped on us. The rest, I'm sure, we'll see played out one episode down the road. Kind of like how it took 3 seasons for us to learn anything about Scott's father. She didn't really kick ass....she's faster and stronger. Kind of like how Scott could take Allison even though she's better trained that he is. Speed and strength can account for a lot in a fight, especially if the person you're fighting isn't anywhere in your league when it comes to those two. Speed especially. All she did was knock a gun away, pick him up by his shirt, and slam him onto the ground. Then elbow him on the chin. She had a history of fighting at Eichen House if you listen to what the orderlies say to her when they're pulling her off of Stiles. So it wasn't like "that day" she randomly threw a punch and it connected (some people do learn to punch that way, though.). It's not like she was flipping around like and Agent of Sheild. She says that she can be really strong if she concentrates, which has been stated to be a were-trait. See Scott cracking a brick wall with his head in Season 1. Or breaking out of the chains Stiles put him in. Same with Boyd and Erika. There has been nothing she's exibited that hasn't been shown in the other were-wolves on the show. Hell, Derek punched a hole through a 3 foot concret wall with very little room to manuever himself (is what we were told to believe). Think The Bride in Kill Bill using her knuckle to break through a wooden box when she had an inch of space. They are strong creatures when they concentrate. So her picking up and heliping 130lb Stiles down a flight of stairs isn't implausable. And when she nicked the guard's keys, she had a distraction at her disposal....and I don't think she got away with it as smoothly as we thought. Stiles did get caught, remember? Scott is teaching her how to hone her skills. She's still not perfect at them, which is why Stiles had to coach her through listening into the room next door (see? not suddenly perfect). We see Omega-Derek doing the same thing in the episode he and Papa Argent are in jail, but he did it in a bustling police department with plenty of distraction, listening into a room a lot further than what Malia was trying to do. Nothing they've shown her doing is anything we haven't seen other wolves do on the show and better. Again, the same could be said for Lydia and Kira. Neither one are common names used for characters in literature or media. (no offense at all, lovely! I understand what you're saying) That's perfectly fine if you want to believe that. I understand. I maintain that Peeta in the Hunger Games is a Gary-stu and I really don't like him (although Peeta really is Gary-Stu...but that's another board discussion for another place and time). I guess we're just respectfully agreeing to disagree. An impasse, if you will.

Just because she sees herself as his mate doesn't mean anything. Some little 14 year olds see themselves in a relationship with Justin Beiber. The thing is that they're not and it's been expressly stated that they aren't and probably won't ever be this season at least. She has a lot to deal with, and while she likes Stiles, her reltaionship with him isn't a primary concern (as stated by Dylan and Jeff D.). And I'm with the poster above, I don't believe any of these chicks are meant to be a hetero-Derek. Malia doesn't have the same personality traits as Derek. Cora was close, maybe, but even she seemed a tad more emotional and reactionary than her older brother. So while I respect your views on that, I'm just gonna have to respectfully say that I disagree. I honestly don't think Jeff and co care too much about Sterek shippers outside of dropping them a bone here and there. And viewership=/=fandom when it comes to shipping at all. I'd even go so far as to say most viewers don't what the heck a Sterek is or that people expect Derek and Stiles to be together in any form. ~~~~ 1. Most of the "introduced beyond the pilot" are poorly written, I'd say. 2. Lydia in the beginning wasn't anything more than Jackson's girlfriend, Stile's crush, and Allison's frenemy (she did kiss Scott even though she knew Allison liked him and they kinda had thing because she was jealous/wanted to be connected the alpha male). It wasn't until the end of the first season that she got an identity beyond girlfriend/mean girl. And then she was a banshee. Derek has the tragic/convoluted family background that connected him with Scott in the beginnnind (the house fire, his uncle was the one that bit Scott, his ex girlfriend was an Argent. I'd say he hit the trifecta) Malia has been in 2 episodes. If we're in the same boat come the end of the season, I'll probably agree with you. But I won't hate Malia. I love what I'm seeing from her so far. 3. This is also a Soap opera trope....Teen Wolf is little more than a furry soap opera with a smidge more cloat than Passions. I wouldn't call that Mary-suing her but just JD being lazy or trying to find a way to organically delve more into the Hale background. 4. Again, what special ability? We haven't seen her in a school setting, but what we have seen is that she hasn't bonded with anyone outside of Stiles and maybe Scott. Are you calling her popular because the show runners and co talk about her the most? I think that has more to do with her being a new series regular than any real favoritism. Kira has way more clips in the season preview than Malia, I'd say Kira will probably have more screen time than Malia will (especially with her playing Lacrosse now.) And she's not especially smart. Lydia (the high school genius still in high school) will be tutoring her because she is way behind and having trouble. 5. Scott loves everyone. Even people who kill Boyd. So I put no great stock in the loves of Scott McCall (I do love him and his puppyish self, though). Not to mention, they've already said that her coyote-like behavior is a turnoff to most. Doubt she's going to be winning prom queen soon (if JD goes that route, I don't even know...but now that I said it, I don't put it past him.) 6. Again, Scott accepts everyone. And he kind of owes her after he forced her to shift back into a human. Right now, she isn't geling with the pack as a whole. Part of her story-arc this season is her learning to become a team player. 7. I answered that one in post above. Malia for me (as an African-American) is not an exotic name. She's named after POTUS' daughter. She has brown hair and brown eyes. She's pretty, gorgeous even, but there's nothing particularly striking about her. She's not waif thin or small or helpless in the slightest. She's taller than almost everyone in the group (S.H. is only about 5'8-9"). She's not clumsy or even perceived as being right most of the time. So far, she's very seldom right. 8. No more so than Kira (who's mother is 900 years old and still looked to be about 16 about 70 or so years ago, who happens to be the kitsune that summoned the nogitsune because of the rage she felt over the injustice served to her people.) I mentioned Lydia because she's often lauded as being this genius, but she's in the same classes as everyone else. No where is it stated that she's taking extra courses or special classes outside of school (as most high school students who excel greatly in certain subjects). There's no talk of her going to summer groups/camps to further this, but we're told and believe ( I suppose, for the most part) that she's going to go on and rock the academic community as an adult? She'd be lucky (even as smart as she is) to get into a good school, because she has no extracurricular activities that we've seen or even heard of outside of being a banshee. And I don't think that you can put that on a college app and be taken seriously. But I bet my last mint oreo cookie that she's going to get into some prestigious Ivy league school come their senior year. And....no. My point is that some of the main character are poorly written in the grande scheme of things, so how can we expect a new one to be any better? ~~~~~

I would still say that the high school part is probably due to poor writing/them just wanting her to be included in the group. (IRL she wouldn't be in class with them. She's either be in a special school or in a Special Ed curriculum so she still gets to socialize with her peers while learning at her level.) But going off of your "how everyone treats her" definition, I agree with you that she's not a Mary Sue. Is her background story convenient? Yea. Same was Kira's was as a Kitsune when the big bad of the season was the Nogitsune that her mother (who looked exactly like her 50 years ago) summoned and never really got around to taking out. Not to mention that she and her family came to town around the time that the Nogitsune came back to town. So while she had no concrete connections, she was given a family background that made her integral to the group for her introduction season.

Please explain to me how Malia is a Mary Sue in terms of what a Mary Sue truly is and not just because she's an underdeveloped character, which is an unfair assessment given that she's barely been in 2 episodes! Most characters are face value in the first two episodes. We're still learning their backgrounds (without taking away from the main character, which is still Scott...who we're still learning little bits and pieces about his background as well.). The only character that tolerates Malia, as of right now, is Stiles. Everyone else is either confused about her (Kira), visibly annoyed by her (Lydia), or exasperated with her (Scott when she suggests leaving Lydia behind). In order for her to be a Mary Sue, characters would have to be uncharacteristically falling over themselves in regards to her and they're not. Her confusions are being played off as funny because it is funny to some people (not saying most, because I dislike bold statements like that. I don't know all 2.1 million people who watch this show. And I'm fairly certain that less than 10% of that 2 million make up the online fandom.). That's a common fish-out-of-water trope, if you wanna put a trope-label on her. She is, at this point, a background figure to the others. Another helping hand in their goal of finding/saving Derek. For her to be a Mary Sue, they'd be constantly pausing in their efforts to correct her, or help her, or teach her and they're not. Stiles is taking the time to do it...as they go along. He's correcting her in the moment and that's because he's chosen to/connected with her back in season 3. (And I know for some people, that connection isn't realistic, but until you've been in a situation where you feel like your helpless and alone and find someone who's just as lost as you are in that moment and understands you to some degree better than anyone else can, you won't understand how fast "connections" like that can be made.) Let's see how TVtropes.org defines a Mary Sue: The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an 1)idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. 2)She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. 3)She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, 4)and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. 5)She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing. 1) I highly doubt that Malia is a self-insert for Jeff or any of the other writers.... 2) No offense, but Shelley Hennig is your run-of-the-mill beautiful/gorgeous former CW actress. You could say Holland Roden (Lydia) is more exotic than she is with her red hair and light eyes. Malia has brown hair and big Disney princess brown eyes. And Malia is not an exotic name for an African-American female (me) who grew up in an African-American community (well...mixed. But most of my family is black). I grew up knowing plenty of Malias (it's an African name that means Queen) and this was before Malia Obama's father became president. 3). Malia has displayed no talent that we have seen except the ability to be able to go full coyote. And that could be explained as being a Hale family trait. So while unusual, isn't that far-fetched if we're to believe her father is truly Peter Hale. 4). See number 3. 5). All of her flaws, so far, are relevent to her story-arc as a girl who spent 8-years of her life being a coyote. She's blunt to a fault and that's not seen as endearing to any of the other characters (see Scott's frustrated and appalled "We're not leaving Lydia") except maybe Stiles. And I think he's more amused than anything really. And sometimes scared (like when she ran off after the Bezerker and he thought she was just....running off.) 6). And extra point number 6, she is not just a love interest! She has a story arc that will go beyond Stiles and has already. She was introduced as a young girl who was in a car accident with her mother and sister, whose body was presumed to be dragged off and eaten by animals. Then it turned out she was the animal and was directly responsible for the death of her family. Scott forced her back to her human form and she was rightfully resentful. Nobody asked her if she wanted to be human, they just assumed (hence why she punched Stiles in the face). Even after re-meeting Stiles, she wasn't a love interest. She was a girl going into a mutually beneficial partnership. Then she connected with Stiles and, after he sacrificed his body for her life/mental well-being, she went to search for him and the one he said could help her become a coyote again. In season 3 we left off with her being taught by Scott while Stiles spectated. Two months later, she's in Mexico with the Scooby Gang helping them find Derek. And she's still not in a relationship with Stiles, as Dylan and Jeff and Shelley have said numerous times. In conclusion, you can say that Malia is an underdeveloped character, because right now she is, but she is in no way a Mary Sue in the truest definition of a Mary Sue. If she's a Mary Sue then Lydia's a Mary Sue. Kira's a Mary Sue. And Allison was a marry Sue (may she rest in peace).

Malia may just be a natural dancer and Kira isn't. Malia wasn't doing anything that the people around them weren't doing, she probably just picked it up faster than Kira. She [Malia] isn't self-conscious (confidence is actually a major factor in dance, even twerking), so it isn't out of the realm of possibility that she just started moving when she saw everyone else moving and copied them (toddlers do this...which is why you should watch what you do around them). There were people grinding on each other not too far from the girls and she was trying to blend in.

Oh I know. I'm not an expert at anything (and hope I didn't imply that by my comment), but I have experience with it. And it's not the exact same progression or case as Malia, I understand. I was just saying that everyone is different (special snowflake) so the time it takes for them to do or not do certain things depends heavily on the individual and their mental state. Now, do I thin Jeff and co did any substantial research on feral children? No, not at all. But this is a supernatural show about teen werewolfes/coyotes/banshes/kitsunes/mermaides/sprites/fairies/dragons/fire angels/mummies/etc. Basic rules aren't going to apply to them, especially given that we still don't understand how born!weres grow/age/develope and it's even been alluded to that it's different from the human process of growing. Maybe mentally they naturally mature faster thant humans? We don't know. Oh, I don't disagree with you at all about character consistancy, but Jeff and Co have never been known for being consistant (See: the Braeden/Kate clawed discussion). I do, however, enjoy the way they're choosing to take Malia's characterization this season (emphasize this season). I'm very sorry that you took offense to what I said and from now on I promise to be very careful when responding to you. I really wasn't trying to be offensive and I'm sorry if that's the way I came off to you.