Gwen-Stacys

Why shouldn't he give up!? The "very promising" lead Enzo was heading on a search for, Stefan had already checked out and found out it was a dead end. And please, Damon has given up on Stefan before. What was that promise to him about making sure he stayed miserable for the rest of his life? All because Katherine turned Stefan into a vampire (without his consent). Yes, people want to say Damon told Stefan that because Stefan forced him to live (because 17-year-old Stefan couldn't fathom eternity w/o his big brother), but Damon all but spells it out that he hates Stefan because of Katherine's feelings for him. A motif that continues throughout the first 3 seasons down to Damon's proclamation that "I finally got the girl." In fact, Damon was obligated to search for Stefan in season 3 because Stefan left with Klaus/fell off the Ripper!wagon to save Damon's life. But of course all of that is continuously forgotten. Or how about the time that Damon Killed Stefan's best friend Lexie and while Stefan was justifiably pissed at him, he never wrote him off? Or how about Stefan trying to get Elena to forgive Damon after Damon broke her brother's neck right in front of her? You say you don't want to dwell on previous crap that Damon's done, but you continuously dwell on the bad things Stefan has done. Stefan deciding to let go of his brother (and everyone connected to his brother) is understandable. It's not like Damon's locked away in a cell somewhere, he's frickin dead. And not even fake dead, but dead dead. He broke down when he found out his brother wasn't coming back (and Caroline comforted him) Let the boy move on in his own way. At least he's not taking drugs, or drinking his life away. And stop judging him because he's not dwelling after trying for 4 months. And Caroline only wants Stefan to help her get back into Mystic Falls which is selfish on her part. Her human family and friends have a safe haven from vampires, werewolves, and the like. But nah...that's bad because Caroline wants back in? Caroline's main concern is getting into MF, not finding Damon. I just don't find him entertaining because he's a poor man's Damon and even poorer man's Klaus. Klaus paints with the blood of his enemies; Enzo is stuck on a jerk who left him to burn to death and then thought nothing of him [until the writers decided to do a retconning and create him] for decades. He's pathetic on a level that perpetual cry baby Klaus, who I actually like, hasn't reached in over a 1,000 years. 1. Yes he did, after Stefan killed Andie, Damon said he was done with him. And Damon not giving up on a very much alive Stefan isn't even remotely the same thing. Lets be real and admit that Damon's number one concern here has always been Katherine/Elena's feelings for him vs their feelings for his brother. 2. He had to! Stefan went ripper to save Damon's life! He was an addict who gave into his addiction because he loved his brother more than he loved himself (and his girlfriend at the time). It's kind of hard to give up on someone when you know they risked everything that was important to them for you. 3. Yes. And it's been well established that he cares very deeply for Caroline. And Stefan did check out leads including the one Enzo thought was so promising. There's only so many times you can take someone telling you "dead is dead is dead" before you actually start believing it. The writers bit themselves in the ass by diminishing the seriousness and permanence of death. Stefan isn't getting a pass for what he's done. He's continuously trying to atone for what he's done/do right and better in light of it. People's problem with Damon is that he does sucky things, acknowledges that they are sucky things, and then shrugs them off. And is all "forgive me, I did it because I have so many feelings and behave like a toddler who hasn't learned to accept that things can't always go my way." Damon was there when all of them needed to be saved? *snorts* when? When has Damon helped any of them out when he also wasn't getting something out of it in the long run. What about all of the times he legitimately tried to kill each and every one of them (and even wished death on Elena?). Please, Damon has always helped because every time he helps he gets pussy points with Elena.

Literally just got that..... I don't get how Stefan's being a dick though? In his mind, his brother is dead and he wants to move on with his life. It's not his fault everyone else wants to hang on. And then Enzo [that guy] killed Stefan's [WOC] girlfriend because [pretty blonde] Caroline was crying over him? The fuck?! I totally understand why this show is pulling such low ratings now. The audacity of some of these characters...and it goes on unchecked. Like Elena screaming "I was faithul to Stefan and I would never hurt him." Bitch! You fucked his brother while he was still in the house! Like....I can't. I tried to watch this and I am officially done.

That scene with Jordi's mom leaving him, although predeictable, was still so heartbreaking. Especially when they intercut it with her putting him on a bus to Mexico when he was a kid...I'm not ashamed to admit that I got a little misty.

I think she mentioned that was getting them for a friend. IDK what Iclandic Folk music even sounds like, tbh : \

Random question, was davina supposedly buying those records for Papa Mikaelson?

My question to this would be why? Why would they show that scene? The episode already went over 15 minutes....why would they waste time with a throw-away scene....just to hammer home a mute point they've already made a few times over the season? On top of that, they covered the potential mystery of it by having her explain how she got it. It would be redundant for them to include a scene and then have her summarize a scene we'd already seen just to keep the other characters abreadst. They killed two birds with one stone (Time and Info dump) by having her say one line. Yea, we're never going to agree on this.

But it still doesn't, because a character (Stiles, specifically) asked her how she obtained the truck, and she straight up said "I'm a US Marshall". Why would they put in a scene with her going to the police station, flashing her badge, and driving away with the truck? It would have been a superfluous scene. And she wouldn't be the first character to gain use to a prisoner transport van by using her connections in offscreensville (cough*stilesagain*cough). That doesn't negate the part where she was very forthright about how she got it: because "I'm a US Marshall" So. Again that's because people assumed she was lying. It still doesn't change the fact that her being a US Marshall wasn't just dropped out of nowhere; it was a reoccurring tidbit of information. Hey, I'm all for gratuitous underwear scenes, so long as there's equal exposure :) I will agree that here crying over his body was a wee bit dramatic.

Actually yes. We have her using her badge (on offscreensville) to gain access to a prisoner transport truck, her using her badge to get into the interrogation room (and telling the officer that she was a US Marshall when she entered the room) during the bonfire episode, then her flashing her badge in episode 3 to get the files on the mute. That's 3. Each time she identified herself as a US Marshal. You just assumed she was posing; she just confirmed it to Derek in the season finale. It's like that quote from Rush Hour when Chris Tucker gets mad at Jackie Chan for speaking English when he was only suppsed to understand/speak Chinese and Jackie said "No, you assumed I didn't speak english." You assumed she was lying. She straight up says in cannon that she wasn't.

A place to discuss the bad-ass US Marshal/Bounty Hunter

taking to her thread.

I literally gave you 3 episodic examples of them telling you that Braeden was a US Marshall before she in fact confirmed that she was a US Marshall at the end of the season, but if you want to keep saying that they just dropped it out of nowhere, that's your prerogative lovely :P And again with Malia's personality/Braeden's personality, people are going to see (or not see) what they want to see. And again, that is your prerogative

It was done at comic con, I was trying to say. Done by an entertainment company (apparently TV Guide. Thanks for that =)

Yes, but the attraction has to be there. It was hinted that Stiles maybe might could be bi, but that distinction was never They didn't though. Again, CA's point was that we didn't know enough about either one of them to say that the writers dropped anything. And Braeden didn't stick around with Derek until after she'd been shot in like...episode 5 or 6. All the time in between epi 4 and that episode she had been looking for Kate like she'd been paid (twice) to do. They even hint at her sentimental side when he bluntly tells Scott that he should've kissed Kira before he left and she didn't understand him pussy footing about it (that you can infer from her tone and the way she asked her questions). Malia had a story outside of Stiles. Yes, she was with him the most (because she trusted him the most), but she spent at least two full episodes without him. The one where she takes a day trip with her cousin, the one where she plays Lydia's bodyguard, and the one where she's purposely ignoring Stiles (she talks to him at the end for 1 minute then leaves.). It's more than implied that she's spent time with Lydia in offscreens-ville as well as Kira. Not to mention Peter. You see her talk to him in the vault one episode, then you see him stalk find her in another and she comments that she already told him not to talk to her there. When she was with Stiles they were trying to figure shit out about the dead pool (SPN show style) or they were doing homework in his room (real life high school relationship style.) But it took longer than 1 season to develop them both. Allison's character didn't start becoming 3-dimensional until towards the end of season 2. Lydia was the same old Lydia (2 dimensional) until season 3 where you start to see her evolve. Carrie-Anne's point is that you're comparing Allison and Lydia's development over the course of 3 whole seasons to Malia and Braeden who were around full time for 1 season. It's apples and oranges right now. Malia is where Allison was at the end of season 1: many avenues to travel in regards to her potential story. She has potential family drama, issues with her mother, struggling with who and what she is, etc. Braeden is a little further than Lydia was at the end of her first season. All we knew about Lydia was that she was a mean girl that randomly had aspirations to win the Fields Medal along with hooking up with the big man on campus. Season 1 you would assume her attachment to Jackson had more to do with their shared status than any real feelings from either. In Braeden's 1 and only season, you know she's a bounty hunter and that may or may not be a US Marshall. She legitimately went to the police station under the guise of being a US Marshal, flashed her badge, and apparently checked out well enough for them to give her police files on The Mute in the 3rd episode this season. So no, your argument that we only just found out about her being a Marshall at the end is not entirely true. It was confirmed that she was REALLY a US marshal in the last episode when she kind of rolled her eyes at Stiles for thinking she'd been lying about it. So while a lot of our disagreements can be attributed to differences of opinion, that one is not opinion. The show actually hits you over the head with her potential occupation multiple times.

That was comic con thing done by one of the many entertainment companies there. (I believe there's even a logo non-MTV logo) I think we're all going to have to agree to disagree/drop the queer baiting article. I saw what Yitzhak saw, two bros goofing around because they know people will be entertained by it, and -I feel like I've said this before- it has been highly hinted that both Hoechlin and Dylan O were drunk when they did the video, so they weren't thinking straight (no pun intended). Some others may have seen it as a "OMG they know about Sterek and they agree with us it's gonna happen, yay!!!" kind of thing. But actors on a lot of tv shows do this. Joke around about their characters getting together when there's a high interest in it...even if it's never gonna happen. Then there's backlash or the fans get rabid and they realize their mistake. I truly believe that's what happened. Both actors were amused by Sterek and then it quickly became too much

. I'll give you that, but still maintain that it started out lower than season 3 (and could even be contributed to the fact that season 3 was during the normal tv watching fall-spring viewing time and not the Summer season.). I could also write you a paper on how poor an approach the Nielson rating system is to accuratly gauge a shows viewership (and I have for school). Most networks are now more into looking at their social networking q scores during viewing times, TW is still about where they've been the last few seasons. Viewership dropped, but not as drastically as people are trying to make it out to be. And still pretty high for an MTV serial. So wait, are you agreeing with me? Stiles' only purpose this season was to, essentially, be there for Malia and to miss Malia when she (rightfully) blew him off....making him the Love interest. No. She existed as a werecoyote trying to fit in with human society. She existed as Peter's secret daughter. She existed as a person in Scott's pack who, like most of the others, looked up to and also looked to Scott for direction. She existed as a girl that's still struggling with guilt and it manifested at least twice this season and once last season. Again was the execution perfect? No. But that, what I wrote, is what they showed us on the show. Her relationship with Stiles was topic of discussion maybe twice in total. She doesn't live for Stiles. Her story didn't stop when she broke up with Stiles, and it kept right on when they got back together. To say that a character exists primarily as a love interest means that their story stops and ends with their lover. It means that they have no real background, they have no other connections, and they seem to live and breathe their relationship with their SO being their number 1 concern. Malia was concerned with a lot of things that had nothing to do with Stiles (Her grades, her past, her father, getting killed for money, surviving, etc). Yes, you can say that Malia is a poorly constructed character with loads of untapped potential, but so is every other character! Why is Lydia even still in High School if she's supposed to be a genius?!?! Most geniuses would be in college by now. The author of the article didn't make excuses, she used examples from the actual show to explain her point. She even gave examples , within the confines of the show, of what a LI is (Paige, being the biggest). But I've already come to the point where I'm understanding that we're never going to see eye-to-eye when it comes to Braeden and Malia. No it wasn't. She flashed her badge in the second episode at the police station. And again in the episode with the bonfire. And again in the last episode. That's 3 total times, and she's not even meant to be a main character. Her purpose this season (outside of boning Derek) was to teach him how to protect himself. Who else could've shown him that? The other werewolves who rely on werewolf strength and agility to sometimes win fights but have no real knowledge on how to properly fight? Especially against someone who is stronger and faster than you are? It makes sense that it would be the FEMALE US Marshal to teach him that. And all this just brings me back to Allison's comment about being able to be strong while still going to prom. Just because Braeden bumps pelvises with Derek on the regular doesn't diminish that. Just because Malia is dating Stiles doesn't diminish her story.

You should really read that article I linked you to. She hit every reason why the group think of "Malia and Braeden are only love interests!" never sat well with me. Malia had more of a SL this season than her lover did. If anyone was the love interest in that ship, it was Stiles. Outside of Stiles, Malia struggled with her coyote instincts vs the human ones she was meant to have, she found out that she was adopted, she dealt with the guilt of having killed her mother and sister (a carry over from season 3b), she found out that her father is a bad person in the most brutal way possible, she found out that her mother might be an assassin and had to deal with the prospect that she's genetically predisposed to being evil, she found a family in the Stilinski's etc etc. Was it handled perfectly? Fook no! But then this is a show written by a person who though having a funeral for a beloved character would be boring and taking away from the story. Braeden has an identity outside of Derek, but she's not a main character and therefore won't get as much time as someone like Malia might. We found out that she's a US Marshal (still has her badge) turned bounty hunter (who still has not killed anyone onscreen). We know that she has pretty decent knowledge of supernaturals, knowledge that she might have gained while obsessively searching for The Desert wolf. She has a story and her purpose this season was to be Derek's Mr. Miyagi with a shotgun.

Nah, Teen Wolf started out the season with a lower viewer rate and then the season followed the trend that the other TW seasons had before them (season 1 not withstanding) where they start higher and end lower. It happens. This season started out low because of the loss of Allison, a lot of people quit because Allison was gone. And also some people weren't so enamored with 3b. It had it's fair share of plot holes (same as any other TW season) You're forgetting Braeden who actually has emotional attachment to someone inside the core group and is non-magical/supernatural. A lot of people are excited about her because she doesn't fall into the "magical negro" trope a la Deaton and Morrell. She's a kick ass character who has a story outside of the group but will also help further the story. She taught Derek how to defend himself as a human and showed him he wasn't helpless, no other character barring Argent could've helped him with this, and Argent was too busy mourning and dealing with his sister. Next season it's being teased that she'll have a lot to do with the Desert Wolf story-line.

I think Dylan wants to have a big movie career, chances are he might not want/is being encouraged by his "people" not to go in that direction with his acting yet. Male actors that are out of closer/play gay characters in the beginning of their careers tend to get pigeon holed. Look at Matt Bomer, he was the front runner for Clark Kent (even though Henry Cavill was perf) until he came out. So maybe that was their plan originally, which is why they dropped hints for it throughout the first 2 seasons. But then they Xandered him (Xander was supposed to be gay in the later seasons and they dropped hints about it a la Stiles, but then they decided to make Willow the gay one instead). You'd be very very very surprised. Don't go to any anti-tags on tumblr, or you'll see why most people choose to stay out of fandom. Any fandom. There are posts about how "Fat" Malia is or that she's abusive (ironic since most of Sterek's earlier interactions are violent), etc etc. Or that her (and Braeden's) only purpose is to be the love interest. And to that I say read this lovely article here Oh, I agree wholeheartedly! Every fandom has that ship. Sterek just happens to be that ship for TW, unfortunately for it's shippers. From what non-shippers say of the TW conventions, it's not just Sterek. If it isn't official TW merchandise, they don't sign. A lot of conventions even warn this on their event websites. Most people just never bother to check and then cry about later.

I both agree and disagree with you on this point. Mostly because I understand what Posey was trying to say (he just worded it very very badly). He, pretty much, said the same thing Tyler Hoechlin said (but Tyler was more careful in how he worded it.). Sterek is not a part of the show, and it never has been. Sterek would never willingly interact with each other if not for Scot McCall. They've grown to tolerate each other as the seasons have gone on, but they did NOT like each other in the first two seasons. Like at all. Stiles was willing to let Derek die in season 1 (and lets get this straight right now, Stiles is not an altruistic character in the slightest. He's a good person, but like most good people, his morals are slightly askewed in some places. Scot's the altruistic/caring/sensative one.) Sterek will never/was probably never gonna happen in canon, so if you are soley watching because you're expecting it's going to happen then you are going to be dissapointed. I think that's what he was trying to say, but he Regina George'd the execution of that statement. (i.e: Stop trying to make Fetch happen, it's not gonna happen) If my memory serves me correcctly, most coventions only allow official memorabilia to be signed. Maybe they were lenient in the past and decided to tighten up on it. Or maybe the actor's aren't so into it (Kinda of like Jensen and Destiel on Supernatural) and they just decided to ban all fanart (which is what most conventions do) so as not to step on any toes? Actors can and will sign whatever they want to, tbh. I understand this, but it still doesn't excuse what some of these people have said to the actors/creator/writers. Just because they don't agree with something a certain part of fandom believes in (and are probably beyond annoyed of having to answer questions about it by now) doesn't give that part of fandom the right to bombared their twitters, and often their mother's twitters, with nasty comments. Two wrongs don't make a right and one wrong does not escuse another. Not really though? They've had naked Lydia in the forest, Naked Lydia in the shower, Allison in her bra (multiple times), upskirt camera angles of Allison, shots of Allison's legs, Blowie haired Kate/Allison/Cora/Lydia/Jennifer/Cali scenes, Erica boob shots, etc etc. The whole two girl's dancing thing I thought was natural (albeit a little baity). Girls usually dance with each other when they go to clubs irl. We call it the inpenitrible circle. And maybe instead of catering to straight males (who do watch the show), they're catering to the non-straight female fans. TW has a predominately female fanbase, this makes more sense to me than the straight boy baiting. Agree to disagree on this one. Teen Wolf season 1-2 was very white-washed. And most people assumed Posey was white until they came out and said "Uh....he's Latino. He even played J-lo's son once." Teen Wolf didn't have a steady WOC really until season 3 with Arden Cho and the actress that played Cali (which is huge, because Asians as a whole are grossly underrepresented on TV.). Season 4 we had 2 black females (even though one died). Before that there was Boyd in the main group. That was it.

I think my problem with the whole Caroline/Klaus situation was that everyone seemed down on Tyler for being mad about it...And I don't think the Stefan sleeping with Katherine thing can even apply in this situation. Because while yes, Katherine was responsible for one Jeremy's deaths....So was Damon (who even admitted the episode or two after that he hadn't known whether or not Jeremy was wearing his ring.) and Elena has slept with/is in a relationship him. So she kind of nullified her right to feel indignant about anything Stefan may or may not be doing. If Caroline wanted to sleep with Klaus, that was on her. She's a big girl and can make her own decision. And she was right...she shouldn't have to apologize repeatedly for it. But it doesn't change the fact that what she did was kind of shitty to her friend. And on top of that being mad at Tyler for not wanting to let bygones be bygones with Klaus when he killed the only family he had left. In TVD timeline, Tyler has lost everyone close to him in under a year...just putting that into perspective. If Tyler wanted to hate Caroline forever, no one has the right to make him feel bad about it, or punch him in the face over it.

But he didn't regain his family though? That look he shot Laurie while Jill was being treated (and the way he blatantly carried their daughter right past her) spoke volumes. He's done with her. He did, however, reconnect with Jill by showing her that he actually gave a shit about her. There was someone in her life that wasn't just going to abandon her. He might not be all there in the head, but he'd run into a burning building for her with no hesitation if he had to. For a teenager who's been abandoned by both her mother and her brother and left with the one person she always though was going to leave her (re: her comment to Tom in the flashback episode) that's a pretty big frickin deal. But Laurie and Tom? They're still nonfactors. He still doesn't even know where Tom is, to be honest. I think the end was more of him (and Jill) rounding a corner, and being willing to move on with his life. And being satisfied with it. And being rewarded for simply trying, because trying IS enough sometimes. No to butt in, but...in my opinion, it is the correct question. From the beginning the viewers have been as much in the dark as the characters about certain things. We discover bits of information organically, when a character decides to share it or it's pertinent to the story. It isn't poor storytelling, as there are many different was to tell a story, it's just different. And, again in my opinion, I think is works in terms of The Leftovers as a whole. The point is very the viewer to be in the moment with the characters (mostly Kevin), so how are we going to feel as confused, betrayed, and disgusted as Kevin does (because that was a look of the purest of disgusts he gave his ex-wife at the end) if we know Laurie's motivations and even kind of sort of sympathize with her? It ruins the effect and the narrative. But YMMV.

Doubtful about Holland leaving, right now at least. Crystal left and she's still jobless (right now) and I love Lydia but....Holland's is not the best actress and she also doesn't have much going on outside of TW besides tagging along with her boyf to HBO events (maybe she's trying to jump ship over to The Leftovers.) Besides the parents, the only other of the younger actors that have outside gigs (currently) are Shelley, Dylan, and Meagan Tandy (and that's mostly guest staring gigs). Tyler Posey may start going the MC route after the Teen Choice Awards. Holland made a comment about her enjoying having a steady paycheck and that she was greatful that Jeff took a chance on the short redhead....which makes me think she's been over looked for a few parts based on her aesthetic. To be honest, I don't think Teen Wolf could afford to lose Holland either. Not right now. Lydia is a fandom favorite

I strongly agree with all of this. I think I said it in last episode's thread, but they tried to do too much. I'm willing to shrug it off knowing that the writing staff had a very small amount of time to plan this season out (there was only like a 2 month break between season 4 and season 3b). I think everything that happened in the finale would've had a better emotional impact if it had all been about Kate/Peter. And Scott should've been a Bezerker for longer than 2 seconds...that was just lame. All I could think about when Derek changed from full wolf to human was ".....tee hee hee....he's naked" and Kate's face was right in his crotch (bad visual). I love him and Braeden together, and I think they compliment each other very well. She's human, but very capable and not a damsel. She's also, from what we've seen, very honest. I liked the throwout about her being a US Marshall. It makes sense that she would be good at finding people who don't want to be found, because she was trained to. Loved the Stilinski+Malia family hug. And I actually lol-ed at the Sherrif locked Stiles to the desk and took Malia out to dinner without him. (And her awkward over the shoulder lookbacks were too cute.) I also loled at Mason and Lydia thinking they could take on the Berzerker and subsequently getting their asses handed to them. Peter screams like a bitch. #inbeforepeoplestartcomplainingaboutsterekbaiting On a random note: Natasha Henstridge for Malia's mom. I remember watching them on The Secret Circle and thinking that Natasha looked more like she should've been playing Shelley's mother rather than Phoebe Tonkin's.

The pack travels to Mexico in order to save Scott and Kira.

If you listen to the radio broadcast before Kevin falls asleep (or after he wakes up, maybe?), there's a blurb about there being a shoot out between authorities and one man...so I'm guessing a cop got a shot in before Wayne ran off to die. It makes sense, especially since the SWAT team busted in right as he died.