Gwen-Stacys

I agree with all the Lizzie defenders. There is a very distinct difference between a person (character) being selfish and self-ish ---with Lizzie obviously being the latter. Her self-absorption could, honestly, be blamed on her illness and her always having to be aware of how or what she's feeling so that she can take self-care steps. I think people's hatred/dislike of Lizzie as a character really sheds light on how or why people with metal illnesses slip through the cracks in real life. They can be a lot to deal with, and most people don't have the want or patience to deal with them. Outside of Hope and Raf, Lizzie is definitely my favorite character on this show. And I love that her bio mom Jo saw and made sure to point out just how good-hearted Lizzie is and has the potential to be because no one else will. Teens, with mental illness or not, often need validation from people outside of themselves just know that they're doing something right.

To be fair, Rafael very firmly cut himself off from Hope at the end of this episode (similar to what he did with Lizzie at he birthday party), so if this develops into an actual triangle, it'll be because Hope actively pursues him. He's like the anti-Damon. He sincerely believes that his brother's girlfriend is off limits. HAHAHA I had the same thought.

Ok I tried, I still can't ship Landon and Hope. They literally do nothing for me. While Hope and Raf do. They truly did the Handon couple a disservice by having him MIA while Hope and Raf bonded over his absence. She literally confides in her boyfriend's brother more than she does her boyfriend. And she looked genuinely hurt that he doesn't want to be her lone confidant anymore. It's weird. Not feeling the slow mo walks either. Still love the show and so excited to see where it goes for season 2!

"Who would have thought that staying up for 24 hours straight would make you look like you smoked crack for 10 years!" Right?! I got less sleep than that finals week, and I looked more put together than she did (you gotta borrow some Ritalin, Lauren! Come on, coffee and energy drinks are Bush League.) So how many times did Marcos get shot? I feel like as close as that gun was to him, if he got shot in the gut (and around the same place judging by his hand position and florescent blood) coupled with his already depleated blood count...he should be dead dead. Are are we to believe that he also had a gun and managed to get some shots in? Also, gotta love a mutant bringing a gun to a mutant fight, LMAO. That guy will be missed, I liked him Missed opportunity not having Evangeline be the woman at the beginning. Would've been a cool way of giving TMU shades of grey (like their predecessors had) and solidified Erg's point in not wanting to join them last episode. He doesn't need a reason to hate/mistrust humans past the things we've seen them do to mutants already just bc they look different. The problem with the show this season is that it feels like it's going nowhere, or it's going full circle. Lorna's back with TMU, same as she was last season. TMU are the good guys, everyone else is bad and misguided. And they finally figured out what the previews have been telling us for the past 3 weeks, Reeva's hitting the white house. I'm kind of angry they decided to go full cartoon villains with TIC. It's annoying and reductive. Good lord, Lorna is the worst spy. And why does TIC have cameras everywhere except their training room?!

"Oh, she's dead. I want to go back to the sewers now to continue playing Master Splinter." To be fair...she did blackmail him into being there. The Inner Circle completely taking the Mutant Underground's leadership out in one strike (whether or not Evangeline and co are actually dead) did nothing but prove his point. They are neither equipped nor capable of taking on the Inner Circle as they are. They can't even handle the purifiers. I Laughed out loud twice this episode. Once when Lorna asked Esme if she was threatening her and Esme hit her with the old "No. I'm just telling you how it is." And when John all out punched Erg (without knowing what his powers were as someone on the Afterbuzz podcast pointed out, and hard enough to severely injure a normal person/mutant that isn't indestructible) and then got put flat on his ass. As much as it made me roll my eyes, the John/Clarice split has been telegraphed since the first episode this season. His willingness to jump into situation after situation half-cocked just sped it up, tbh. also, I'm tired of the underground being all anti-killing when it comes to the purifiers. These people literally torture random mutants just for being (like the mute girl that lives with Erg and co that had her vocal cords cut out) or burn down orphanages full of mutant children. The last of which we literally got no in show follow up on, so did they just get away with it? All the while, evoking the memory of a group that rolled with a guy that straight up had huge butcher knife sized adamantium claws that he was not shy about using in a fight. Also LOL at Caitlin acting like her brother was being unreasonable not wanting to walk into his place of work and ask questions about a secret mutant group that she knows has KILLED people for doing as much. Sister of the year. I'm probably gonna get a lot of flack for it on this board, but Lauren literally tried to kill her brother. After watching her toss her disk thingies and slice off tank doors and knowing she was throwing them at her brother willy nilly is...a look. Especially since she's supposed to be "the good" in this ying yang duo. Coupled with the fact that he's never attacked her unprovoked like she lowkey did him in their dream? They're also anti people using their very useful abilities in apt situations on this show. Like, oh we need to hurry up and get to this place to save people. Lets just drive faster and ignore the fact that we have someone with the ability to transport us places in the BLINK of an eye? Or the fact that Marcos and his sun hands suddenly become useless in a fire fight. Or the fact that Lorna is able to dig around the inner circle for clues, bugger off for hours at a time with no question, and The Frosts have yet to take a peak inside her mind? Not to mention, she thought it was even safe to go back to a place with 3 powerful (when the show needs them to be) telepaths when she's compromised?! I love you show, but you're starting to lose me.

The MU continue to be hypocrits. Caitlin giving Andy the side eye for going off on a bigot after the man literally shot his sister in the back (if you watch, she grabs at her back right after the man shoots the gun. the only thing that saved her was the bullet proof jacket TIC wears during their missions)when she willingly helped a mutant OD for less. At least andy's torture boner made sense in the moment. He saw all the saws and power tools the Purifiers were ready and willing to use on John, his sister got shot...I mean, I'd beat wholesale ass for less! Also, destroying the inner circle won't bring your son back, Cait. It'll just make him hate you and then he's lost to you forever. Something you should know, as it seems he takes after her the most. Lowkey wanted John to die so that my babe James could pop up (Martin Sensemeir, actual native actor, please!)

"He was 17-year-old, but not a virgin. Remember Valerie? Back when TVD and Julie really wanted to get rid of Nina's legacy on the show. " I was about to say! I know I quit vampire diaries a season or two before the bitter end, but I did remember him putting a whole ass fetus in someone's uterus. Though, to be fair, he didn't remember it, so he was, in his mind, still a virgin.

"and Stephen Amell's Oliver is just Bruce with a bow. ;) ) Don't do Bruce like that! He's been through enough already. "It does seem kind of odd that they didn't use Barbara/Oracle- just as a name drop, even if not using her in the show. It could be that they just really wanted to use Hawk and Dove and figured bringing a love-triangle angle into things would help make their inclusion pop more with the ongoing storyline. Or maybe they were worried about the show being too Bat-family focused by including Dick, Jason, and Barbara (as well as cameos/name drops of Bruce and Alfred)." I think they're not bringing Babs into the story at all mostly because Dick/Kory is the show's endgame couple. Can't happen if Barb is there. She and Dick are sidekicks equivalent of Bruce/Selina in that they're gonna be end game, but it's gonna take an eternity for it to ever end. Donna and Dawn almost fill in what her role would be here anyway. The quasi-bestfried/big sister who doesn't take any of his shit in Donna and the one that got away with Dawn. Plus, bringing any more batfam in (outside of Jason and Bruce's shadow) would take even more attention off of the other characters if for no other reason than everyone loves them/wants to see them. They (the batfam)have such a rich story to tell and an interesting, albeit isolating (and at times un-inclusive), inter-relationship dynamic that they need to just keep it at Dick (and he eats up a lot of story on his own). And, I'll admit, I might be biased (My interest in Kory begins and ends with Anna Diop), I thought this episode was fine in doing what it was meant to do: set things up for the finale. But I agree that they should NOT have named it after the one character that didn't have their perspective shown much in this episode. That was a tease and a disservice to those who were looking forward to it.

She's not a full hybrid yet. While she has vampire blood in her veins, she herself is not a "Triggered" vampire. Like how she had her wolf agility before she triggered her werewolf half (but acknowledged the agility was nothing compared to what she could do once her wolf was triggered. Why they haven't explored that more...I have no idea.)

Nope. Hope has never been able to compel anyone. She's had hybrids that were sired to her, like how Tyler was sired to Klaus in season 3 (???) before he broke it, so maybe that's what everyone's thinking about? Her hybrids (only 2 still alive, unless they died in the 2 years btw TO season finale ad Legacies' premier) were the only beings she could control without magic, and that's not compulsion.

Everyone keeps pointing to how cohesive season 1-2 (and even 3) character plotlines of TVD were without pointing out the fact that JP wasn't the showrunner for those seasons. It was Kevin Williamson, who'd also originally nay-nayed the idea of Damon/Elena ever being a thing. It wasn't until he left at the end of season 3 that we had that big change and the show (inarguably) started to go downhill. So while I like where legacies is going now, I don't have much faith in its' future. (Seasons 1-2ish of the originals was run by Michael Narducci)

"Why could Marcos have lasered out their tires? Then a blinding flash to disorient them while the he John and Invisible Guy got away?" Because Marcos has been useless this entire season, that's why. And why did Earthquake Guy have to sacrifice himself? Why couldn’t Lauren have just force field destroyed all the samples with one flick of her hands? Why couldn’t Reed have red hands the cases? Seems way easier than rumbling everything off the shelf." In this instance, Reed had just taken the dampner thing that suppresses his abilities. He couldn't have red-handed anything. I think Reeva's plans are to create chaos as a means of starting a civil war that the humans have no chance of winning (unless they nuke themselves and mutants alike). That's what I've been gathering. And as for Andy...I think he lowkey is blaming himself for what she did at the bank because he was the one that stoked her anger in the first place. So "It's not her fault because it's mine." Bring on Darth!Lauren!!!! *insert Elmo Fire gif*

"Considering that Kaleb, who has knowingly and remorselessly brought problems down onto the school already, was rewarded for it instead of being sent away like Landon, that explanation rings hollow to me." Kaleb hasn't done anything that the vampires living in Mystic falls for decades hasn't already done (Snatch, Eat, erase). Putting their vampire students on Stefan's bunny diet is a deservice to them. It makes them weaker (Stefan only started drinking human blood again in season 1 so that he could be strong enough to protect Elena)and therefore puts them in danger should they come across other similarly aged vampires and need to defend themselves. Kaleb's not wrong, Alaric is knowingly nerfing these kids and setting them up to fail once he sends them out into the real world and they haven't been practicing control.

No, Hope's tests were inconclusive. The fact that he can't be compelled is fishy enough, tacked onto the fact that he has no magical ancestry in his lineage which Emma mentions being both strange and improbable. It's almost as if Landon is another creature they know nothing about (Julie Plec already stated this as fact) and therefore don't have the knowledge to test him. If this is true (it is), then Josie's point still stands. They don't know what Landon is, and if they don't know what he is then how do they know he isn't dangerous.

Butting in on this to say that nothing about Raf's interaction with Lizzie seemed to have malicious intent. It seemed more of a both of them seeking comfort and distraction and they were both just...there. In fact, Raf pushes Lizzie away initially, then passively lets her take his shirt off and then seems to just...go with it (as Lizzie asked him to). Saying anything else until we see next week's fallout seems more like projection than anything else. And since next episode's synopsis seems to hint that . I still maintain that neither party (Lizzie/Rafael) were thinking. But you're working off of the assumption that Josie has all the information (re: to the knife) and she doesn't. All she knows is that the knife sat dormant in the school doing nothing until the day Landon stole it and all of these creature crawled out of the abyss of forgotten toys woodwork. The catalyst is Landon. That is a canon fact. Whatever happened, him being in proximity to the knife jump started everything. We also see at the end of the episode that whomever the creatures are bringing the knife to, their symbol is the same as the symbol on the necklace Landon's mother is wearing in the picture he has of her. HE IS CONNECTED. MAGNETO JOSIE IS RIGHT! Why? There are humans that know of the existence of vampires. The Dryad's long lost boyfriend tracks one down to turn him so that he can be with her forever (before the great spell of forgetfulness). Landon has also promised to keep the school a secret, if only for Rafael's sake. So either he's a trustworthy kid, or he's someone with nefarious intentions. He can't be both.

I still maintain lowkey. Hayley was very much present in Hope's life before she died two years before this show. As was Marcel and Freya and Kol (via Facetime). Josie mentioned how often Hayley would visit Hope. The book she pulls out for the black magic spells in episode two was Kol's gift to her (hidden so she could bring it to school unquestioned). The spells she uses that Josie/Lizzie don't know, she learned from Freya (she says as much re: the astral spell she uses to see Landon in episode 3). In The Originals, her mother's boyfriend Declan has a very strong relationship with her (even taught her how to drive) showing that even though she's in boarding school, she was still very much connected to her family. I don't think her closeness with Alaric was a thing before she was 15 (and lost a mother, a father, and an uncle). And almost seems revisionist, given his only scene in season 5 of TO was arguing with Caroline in regards to using their daughter to save Hope's life (something he was hesitant to do). The problem with the show is that they're making it seem like Hope has no one, which isn't true. She's got 2 biological aunts and an Uncle left who love her very much and would more than likely keep in touch (as they did even when they physically couldn't be around her). And through them she's got an Uncle (who's also her adoptive brother, and made a promise to be there for her) and two aunts. If anything happened to Hope at the school and none of them show up (or they don't mention them dropping by/being in town, but never on screen) I call foul. Because even Davina helped Klaus (who she HATED and didn't even come to his living funeral with her husband) when Hope was in trouble. The girl is very much loved and very much not alone. Agreed. But again, I think that has to do more with how Hope's family have prepared her. When she leaves the school, she's still being educated by Freya, Vincent (who's Freya and Keelin's baby daddy), Kol (who has a lot of witch knowledge, trinkets) and Davina (who's no slouch) with her witch stuff. She's probably more equipped offensively and defensively to handle threats than most of the teachers. In fact, she's taken out 50% of the monsters on this show.

I remember our honor council's had to do things like that: decide the punishment of a fellow student. We had one in college too for the same thing. I didn't see Hope blaming Raphael for Landon getting beet up, but pointing out that he can't protect him all the time. None of them can, it's impossible. And they go to a school where the students tend to show their anger through setting people's clothes on fire or beating them up. I thought her reasoning had merit, but Josie's definitely made the most sense. Rafael didn't have an argument for it, and that might also be why he got so angry. Josie's logic was sound. Ehh, kind of saw it as him copying off of what Hayley, Freya, Vincent, and Josh did in NO (on The Originals) They had peace there for years before the Natzi vamps ruined it. To be fair to Raf, he was kissed on both occasions. He has never been the instigator in anything physical with either sister, just reacted. I still maintain that Hope cannot be the Elena of this series, because that it Raf. Everyone loves him. And if those student file spoilers are to be believed, then LMAO! That was literally the most Klaus thing she's done since stuffing her mother in a coffin! 15 year olds have sex in real life. I will say that most of my friends in high school were active around 15-16ish. It's kind of the norm and also why some states in the US (not all) have their schools push sex education around that age I think Jed ran off after the fact. Emma left the Honor Council to help lead the search party to find him. I have no thoughts of my own because everyone's already said them. Alaric sucks as a headmaster and needs to check his relationship with Hope a little (even if he did lowkey raise her). We see him talking to her at the end of the episode instead of his own daughters. Penelope was right, if a little harsh. Rafael is the new Elena and is gonna come between two siblings one way or another. Hope is still my fave, but I'm not feeling her with Landon. Do like that he makes her smile tho, so I guess there's that. I liked Landon this episode and I'm calling either blonde vamp (he was way too attractive to be a one off!) or Landon's mom as the season's big bad. Good job not dying, Dorian. Legacies has more black male actors in the first five eps than VAmpire diaries had in all 6 seasons! (Never forgive Elena for Killing Nanceford!)

While I do NOT agree with Lorna making all of the parental decisions with Dawn, she made the right choice because Marcos and his whole "love will save everything" BS he's been spewing this season is a whooole ass choice....And that's all I have to say about that. (She did kind of listen to his input, though, by not sending their daughter to Switzerland, but instead to live with her aunt) I did like that the situation brought her full circle to understand the sacrifice her father made for her. Now she has an even bigger motivation for seeing her stint with the Inner Circle through, if they succeed then she gets to reunite with her daughter. Although, you know, facetime is a thing now, Lorna. Call your daughter. I do feel bad for Marcos though, even if he often toes the line of being too idealistic. And speaking of idealistic! Clarice is right, John is operating like a man with a death wish. How does he expect to go against the inner circle all by his lonesome when they have a whole ass army equipped with people who could take him out with a wave of their hand? He's also being dumb. also being dumb? Lauren passively letting her blood be taken, knowing that the research from it is (once again) going to be used as a weapon against mutants. You know that the purifiers are going to use Madeline's suppression drug with carte blanche.

She's not the alpha tho. They've never said she was the Alpha or even explained how the crescents handle succession. Hell, Luciana seemed like she was the Alpha before the Nazi vamps killed her. But I'm almost 75% certain that she's not the alpha...Hell, even in OT season 5, Hope was pretending to be only a witch at her school and no one (outside of Caroline, Alaric, and that one kid) even knew who or what she was. I'm assuming Klaus and Elijah showing up (coupled with the fact that she's now Hope Mikaelson and no longer Hope Marshall) kinda threw that notion for a loop. It's probably safer to say that they left her alone because she's a hybrid and normal wolves have always been hot and cold with hybrids than her being a 17-year-old alpha.

Lizzie vs the gargoyle, she siphoned off of that Pedro kid before she sent him off. nd every time Josie does magic with Hope, she siphons off of her (red hands). I wanna know how the school Alpha approached Hope after her first transition, if he did. Bc I don't see hi being able to bully her the same way they did Raf. And why didn't Raf just say he was part of Hope's pack?

Whew, Blink spilling all that tea was needed. Viewers have been saying that the mutant underground is incompetent and short sighted since last season. Poor Sharif Atkins :( The Inner Circle has all of the big personalities on their side. And it's almost hilarious watching their teamwork taking down the back vs TMU last episode's failed fight against humans in pickup trucks Damn, the light-skinnededness keeps jumping out of Jace! I don't care, I still like Rebecca. I called her turning people inside out the moment they showed what her power was. The Sharif aside, I kind of loved it? It's the first time I've made any noise for this show (outside of the Cuckoo reveal last season). It was a horrified squeal, but still. "Crazy" characters are fun because they tend to throw a wrench in things and stoke drama in believable ways. Rebecca knocked TIC win train off the track, while also proving that they do have moral guidelines that they follow. No unnecessary deaths on missions. But I wonder how Andy's gonna take this? Is he gonna turn on his new girl, or is he gonna stick by her and attempt to reign in her crazy?

I had these exact same questions! For the first one, I just chalk that up to movie/tv logic. No one ever closes and locks the door unless the writers are making the point that they're the smart and capable character. And the other, I can fanwank that there was more than 1 superviser and they drove Lizzie back. I don't agree with people's assessment that Hope is the Elena of the show. She has too much of her parent's in her and I doubt she'd ever come off as a damsel or even helpless. She's prickly and standoffish, and Alaric stubbornly spending time with her that he should be spending with his daughters has more to do with her father than her as a person. She's not even the one all the boys are after. If anyone's the Elena, it's Rafael. Landon doesn't bother me, but I don't like his relationship with Hope. He's a foster kid with a fucked up childhood, he's bound to be offputting. That's par for the course with most (not all) kids in the system. If you've ever worked with them....you kind of learn to give them a lot of leeway, I can't explain it. He makes sense to me, just not for Hope. He's too wishy-washy for her. Josie, on the other hand (but I don't they'd go there). I'm waiting for the Salvatore kids to go off on the Mystic Falls kid. Especially the blonde dude. I don't remember the kids at MF High School being assholes just because. And it can't be a money, thing. Aren't there other wealthy kids in the area? Or was that just the Salvatores and Lockwoods with money? Jeremy's still looking good. That is all. For me right now, my character ranking is: Hope, Josie, Raf, Landon/Lizzie, MG, Jeremy (he needs to recurring!)

Mindee and Celeste!!! My babies!! Best scenes of the episode, hands down, was everything Esme and Lorna. They have a great chemistry, I noticed it back in season 1 so I'm glad they're steadily building on it. Andy and Rebecca are still cute, but now I wonder how Lauren and Caitlin'll take knowing how close Andy's grown to the "psycho killer" Jace continues to be the worst. The Mutant underground stays taking L's. Like, the Purifiers in the comics make this version of them look like amateur hour. Makes sense given that the X-men make the MU look like amateur hour. PS MU...the X-men (cough*Wolverine*cough) weren't so rigid on the no killing rule. Just saying. Poor Shatter. Knew you were a goner the moment you spoke 2 consecutive words. The show would be better if they focused on The Inner Circle. They're the most interesting because they actually seem to be building towards something.

Eclipse = a weaker/older Sunspot. They couldn't use Sunspot, bc he's in New Mutants. So they just used a part of his background (unless Marcos isn't idr) and half of his powerset (Sunspot also has super strength) The whole of the MU (minus Reed and sometimes Lauren) seems to be under the impression that they're friends are being influenced/forced to be their instead of believing they made an informed, rational decision to be more forceful in their quest for mutant rights. If they're honest, Lorna and Andy are acting very much in their character, right down to their reluctance to kill/hurt people without reason.

Marcos was kind of a jerk this episode. Turning his nose up at Erg and co and where they lived. I liked that lights girl more or less put him in his place about it. A sewer is better than a mutant prison/psych ward/concentration camp/etc. Though the branding is a bit much... The Mutant Underground continues to disappoint me. Know how easy it would be to release tapes of random citizens (along with an ex government agent) harassing a mutant friendly clinic would be in that climate? People are already protesting in favor of mutants in the hundreds of thousands. That's easy funding for your clinic and others like yours. It also puts a target on the Purifiers' backs and makes it harder for them to harass people. But again, they literally do nothing! Say what you will about the inner circle, but at least they understand PR. Same as the X-men did ---who the MU claims to be taking over for. I feel bad for John, but I'm glad that seeing him fall apart helped Caitlin course correct with her Andy obsession a bit. I know she's crazy (Lorna all but smelled it on her), but I thought Rebecca and Andy were cute. He's been a lot more smiley and upbeat this season. It's a good look on him and the character. Please let them be crazy together. The mutant version of Spike and Drusilla. I didn't understand Lauren and Reed's looks at the end. Are they gonna be the only members in the underground that can see both the good and the bad with the inner circle? Hell, even lights girl was wondering why Marcos was so hateful of them, and he couldn't even give her an answer outside of "my baby momma left me for them." Heck, even a "they're willing to kill and I am no longer alright with torture and killing" would've been a sufficient enough answer.