PhilMarlowe2

And what's weird is that she didn't squawk in her first season of the show. A fringe benefit of "Fun Shannon," I guess?

All well and good...until Kelly decides one or both of them has done her wrong - at which point Kelly will throw her patented "nukes" at them. It reminds me of the old expression, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them." There is no way Kelly judiciously saves her destructive behavior for people who "deserve" it. She's a loose cannon and she blames others for her temper rather than realizing that she is ultimately the common denominator in all the conflicts in her life.

This was the first episode of the season that actually worked for me. Finally felt like the show I used to know and love has returned. Can't wait to see what's next.

And she said you'd find a picture of Tamra when she really meant that you'd find a picture of Shannon (the hostage).

Jamal actually conceded that he understood Kellee's point and he seemed totally open to hearing what she had to say about his fears of all-girl alliance. I thought he pretty much walked the walk that he talks in terms of not getting defensive or trying to argue with her that she was wrong.

Which is crazy because of Shannon's first season on the show - when Tamra repeatedly lied about her, spread gossip about her and gaslit her. How Shannon ever came back from that introduction to Tamra I will never know.

But that clearly and decisively wasn't the main lesson from the show: By the end of the exchange, there was actually very little division - in fact, both Jack and Jamal very clearly expressed that they felt closer to one another than before, that their friendship felt more real than ever, and that the whole incident gave them both a chance to heal something inside themselves - Jamal said Jack's willingness to hear him was a healing experience and Jack said he learned something about his own privilege that he never would have otherwise understood. I think the main lesson here is quite the opposite of what you're saying - everyone should be free to express themselves and to hear others, and by Jamal expressing his hurt feelings to Jack, and by Jack being willing to listen to him, and by Jamal being willing to listen to Jack's remorse, they now feel more comfortable than ever with one another. The real "walking on eggshells" would have been if Jamal had never said anything - held in his hurt, held in his disappointment and then grew distant from Jack (which Jack would of course feel/sense on some level). This whole sequence was an example of people willing to stomp on the eggshells, get into some respectful conflict and come out the other side closer for it. And I also find this idea of "white people having to walk on eggshells" a bit ironic as minorities of all types have had to keep very very silent in response to subtle digs, unintentional slights and microaggression for ages - is that not a form of walking on egg shells? And, as you have pointed out, it hasn't gotten us anywhere. Last week, Survivor in fact showed us no one has to walk on eggshells - if we're willing to listen to one another, even in disagreement, there can actually be deeper unity than when we're all sweeping things under the rug for the sake of not rocking the proverbial boat.

I don't think the crux of the conflict was whether only black men wear durags out in the world. It was more that those items are always called "buffs" on Survivor and yet, when speaking in reference to a black man on the cast, Jack changed it to "durag." Would Jack have called it a "durag" if speaking about Elaine or Elizabeth? Probably not. Though unintentional, Jack was stereotyping. That was the crux of the issue.

Same here. And when they flashed back to him on All-Stars, it all came rushing back how gorgeous he was back in the day. Those pretty eyes. His fierce protection of Amber. It was all too much. He's still sexy, but damn, he was smoking back then.

My thoughts exactly. People rooted for her because, yes, Brooks didn't have cancer, but it doesn't change the fact that her behavior was shockingly invasive. And her justification for it was Leeanne's cancer. Her husband's ex-wife's cancer. That was the flag she was waving as she called Brooks' ex-girlfriends and doctors. So, so gross. And I'll throw in another startling Meghan moment: she learns that the entire rest of the cast has been a major car accident - an ATV that literally flipped over - and she doesn't feel compelled to tell Shannon about this first thing when they meet. Instead, she happily reports her pregnancy news. Only hours later does she break the news. And you could see Shannon's total shock. I really felt like I was watching a sociopath at that point.

I thought we did see the full Meghan! I will never forget how, after Vicki's mother died, Meghan dragged her step-daughter Hayley onto the beach to film a scene where she basically said, "Seeing how Vicki's mother died reminded me that your mother will soon die of cancer!" It was shockingly tacky and self-involved. It was clear to me that she was using this young woman's tragedy as her own story-line on a reality show. That told me everything I needed to know about her.

And then Vicki gave her a "Kill All Cancer" bracelet (but only after getting her contact info as a future life insurance lead).

I have a weird soft spot for Alexis. She makes it hard, but it is there nonetheless.

Seriously. I know Vicki does not have the same "star power" as a Nene or a Bethenny or an LVP, but this woman is an all-star when it comes to having generated so much real, organic storylines for so many seasons. It's a shame that her downfall on this show has been almost entirely due to her taste in men - first, ruining her reputation and alienating the cast by getting into bed with criminal con artist Brooks; and now becoming far too reserved to please boring, conservative Steve.

I actually think Heather was perfect for OC because she was certainly worldly and classy for that bunch, but I think she would implode if she were on a show with women of greater wealth than her. Look how she initially flipped out when Shannon first came on the show. Can you imagine Heather vying for Queen Bee status with the likes of LVP, Kyle, Erika Jayne, Camille or Yolanda around? Or actual working actresses like Eileen? I'd almost love to see it because I think we'd see Heather become the Alexis Bellino of the group - a try-hard desperate to show/prove her worth to all the other women. At the end of the day, there is a reason why Heather was so close with Tamra - despite her pretensions otherwise, it's very much who Heather is (but pretends not to be).

I was re-watching some of Season 9 recently and it is amazing to me how different Shannon was when she first came on the show. Yes, she had a few emotional breakdowns - but, by and large, she was very calm and knew how to use her "inside voice" when speaking. It's almost shocking to see her show up to a dinner and engage in normal, non-heightened conversation. I have no idea what has happened to her over the years. Shrieking is her new normal. Costumes are her new normal. Affected over-laughing is her new normal. It's like she's so intent on being "Fun Shannon" at all times that she has become a caricature of herself. I know Shannon is technically "happier" now that she is not married to David, but she seemed so much more grounded and emotionally stable in her first season.

Yea, Brandi went from 0 to 60 very quickly. I get that Kam was talking nonsense, byt Brandi got unnecessarily aggressive at dinner. Another thing that no one is mentioning is that Brandi told Kameron to "go suck a dick," and that's when Kameron used the word "trash." Which, I'm sorry, is not an unreasonable thing to say to someone yelling at you to go suck a dick in the middle of a restaurant. I agree with those who say that Kameron has apologized enough for the comment. I generally love Stephanie, but I do feel she's reaching by making the "trash" comment about her as well. That said, Kameron truly does not know how to put her listening ears on.

Not only that, but Kary was also pretty patronizing when LeeAnne mentioned her difficult childhood. She was pretty much like, "I had a difficult childhood too, you just need to let it go!" Now, don't get me wrong, LeeAnne went way beyond the pale in her reaction, and refused to drop it, but I understood her initial instinct to put Kary in her place. I would be extremely annoyed too if someone decided to armchair psychoanalyze me at dinner.

My problem with Ashley is that she is essentially demanding that the other women get behind the story that Michael didn't grab the ass, essentially asking them to be complicit in an (alleged) sexual assault. If Ashley took the position that Michael's business is Michael's business and basically opted out of talking about it (much like Karen did with Ray's financial troubles), then I'd have more compassion for her. But you can't have it both ways - you can't insist that everyone be on board with your revisionist history but then resent it when people have their own (very justified) opinions about it. That said, I am in complete agreement that Candiace is so far out of line with her hatred toward Ashley.

Brandi is guilty of every single thing she has accused LeeAnne of - I think Brandi cannot stand the mirror reflection of herself she sees in LeeAnne. I also think she's a true mean girl and needs someone to be "against" at all times.

This. Anyone using google will immediately know all about him. I am not making excuses for his vile behavior but I do feel a tiny bit bad for him that Gina's Housewives fame has essentially robbed him of any kind of private life.

Yeah, I think the actor who plays Jason is really bad - very attractive, but almost shockingly bad. I kept wondering how he got cast, he has almost no comic timing. Here is my issue with the show so far: what is stopping Ted Danson from simply asking Jane what keeps causing the disasters in his neighborhood? Surely she would know. It may be a quibble, and I am enjoying this show for the most part, but this gap in logic is definitely bothering me.

Just finished this. I'm more or less okay with dedicating so much time to the Atlanta story because it seems like a natural progression for the team - the FBI being brought into a high-profile case and using their methods for the biggest mystery yet. I definitely missed the dramatic thrust of season 1 - consistent interviews with serial killers that then played out in various unsolved cases - but I'm okay with taking on one big mystery for the second season. That said, it felt like there were so many loose ends that made this season feel altogether muddy for me - 1) Season 1 built to this big emotional climax that questioned Holden's methods - he became outright hostile and self-destructive (walking out of the Internal Affairs interrogation), misguidedly marched into this personal exchange with Kemper at the hospital and then had an honest-to-God panic attack. Then Season 2 started to introduce the idea that his emotional instability might make him a liability in interviews - and I thought we were building to this tension where they need Holden because of his finesse with the killers but where he presents an increasing liability due to his emotional instability. But then this went nowhere. I guess Holden took some Valium and everything is okay? His character seemed to recede into the thematic background. 2) Similarly, the entire FBI group dynamic hit a standstill. You had the initial tension where the square, Christian, tattletale assistant was on the outs from the rest of the group; you had the new smarmy FBI director who seemed like he was going to pit the team members against themselves; you had Wendy who seemed like she was going to find her own footing as a powerful interviewer - and who also seemed like she was feeling outside of the group; you had Bill and Wendy not trusting Holden; and, again, all of this went nowhere. 3) I'm one of those people who felt the Bill/Brian storyline was simply too on the nose. Of course one of the agents' sons is now showing possible signs of sociopathy. I thought the minutia of Bill's tightrope schedule was well done, but the whole thing felt contrived to me. And, again, the adversarial case worker ("Make no mistake, she's not our friend") went nowhere. And Nancy is a hugely annoying character - hysterical, reactive. 4) Wendy's romantic storyline felt like a retread of Holden's dating woes from last season. I keep getting the distinct impression that they are setting Wendy up as a functional alcoholic, but maybe I am reading into it? 5) If we're going to go into their personal lives, I would so much rather it be subtler and more intimate. For example, I think it would be very interesting to see the Christian agent trying to square the more complex view of humanity he is cultivating with his previous beliefs. Or to go deeper into Wendy's repression (and inability to ask for what she wants). I still really enjoy the show but found this season a bit more tedious.

Me too, it's my favorite to this day.