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The problem is, the writers have done what other sitcom writer have done and turned up his character traits to the extreme. Same goes for everyone on the show right now. I mean, you can say one "black person" reference to Chuck and he blows it out of proportion like he was called the n word. Kyle's problem is they have made him a doormat for everyone, and him standing up to Ed at the end of last season seemed to finally show that Kyle was tried of being treated like that. Yet, Mike and Ed find ways to put him down or make him do all the work when they know if Kyle was fired most of Outdoor Man would fall apart work staff wise. Yet, he's never promoted, he has no major ambitions and he's basically become Alan from Two and a Half Men without the mooching. Which is very off putting of the character. I would be happy with Kyle would find his spine again and go to Mike and Ed and say: "So, why do you pay me so little, put me down when you know I do a great job here and why have I not been promoted in the last five years?" Having him listen to Ryan's stupid ideas about atheism or forgetting to tie his shoes some days isn't funny, its beyond ridiculous.

Exactly! Yet, they have to beat us over the head from Haley that she is so "uncool" and can't dress. Or that she always has to be snarky with her family or how she wanted to be out on her own and away from her "crazy family" yet, she wants to run home because she can't fit in at college.

I know, I had family that lived in SF for almost twenty years and the stories I would hear. Especially, when my cousins started driving. My one cousin said, he literally was in an out of his car less than 2 minutes to drop off a bill and there was a ticket being written because of him being in correct from the curb as he came out. Its been a joke for years, if you go to SF, you will get a ticket by blinking. I am also tired of hearing "uber" not to mention most ABC shows use it constantly. There were three straight weeks of: Modern Family, Black-ish and even Castle where "uber" was said almost every ten minutes. I was like: "We get it!" "I do live in the current times, shut up!"

I don't know to feel about this episode. One, I liked that they continued with Eve being confused after not getting into West Point. She's 18, and her dream was crushed, so of course she is going to look for something to latch onto. Mike and Vanessa were acting like normal parents too, they want to help Eve, but know she needs some space. To then say she wants to take a year off, I can believe too. Some parents have no problem and many feel that if they don't keep going, they are going to become a lazy slug (my father-in-law's philosophy). Now, with Mandy and Kristin, I think that was just bad. They were acting like they have been astrange for years and where was Boyd in all of this? A simple passing of: "He's at a sleep over." Would have worked. Another thing with Kristin and Mandy not knowing Ryan was a comic guy. Hello, you don't have an original copy of Dark Knight Returns, talk about love of the books if he just started just before they were married. Kristin would have known he was a comic book fan and despite all of Ryan's dumbass ideas and views. Him being a fan of comic books made sense. Same for Kyle. Also, Kristin in her pjs at 8 pm and looking like crap with no one at home. Ok, my wife and I are in our late 30s. When our son is staying the night somewhere. We relax and watch a movie, but not to the point where I think its late for 8 pm. Maybe 10, but not 8. Jay Leno was funny, but his parts with Mike and him seem forced, we get it, they were making fun of each other's careers, but that was over load.

I'm agreeing with everyone else, great episode and that Phil really is the best character on the show. Followed by Jay. The problem with Luke and Manny is they don't know what to do with them. Gould is phoning in his lines all the time and not to mention, they have decided to capitalize on his characters flaws to the extreme. Thinking it will be funny and it makes Luke look so stupid, its amazing he knows how to tie his shoes. He has been "Jaked" (Two and a Half Men reference). While the stories from Mitch's unemployment to Gloria trying to do something outside of being the trophy wife. Manny has either had extremely stupid story lines that go against the character or given one problem that is never brought up again. They really could have worked with Manny dealing with being a big brother more and not being the only child any more with Joe. However, we get an episode where Manny is jealous or Joe does something to mess up a date or situation he is in. Its a done in one and then we never deal with it again. Same goes with Haley this season, so now they can have her and Andy together, but that's all it is. Very few fans like Andy and the entire situation getting them together has made them look horrible. Haley has this crazy boss and is working in her dream filed, but she is going nowhere with it or complains how "hard" it is. She might be attractive, but her boobs and hair aren't going to get her through life all the time. I feel sorry for Phil, because he is a good guy and a good dad, who does try to still have fun in life. I mean, why not. He has been very successful despite problems in the realstate business. He sticks up for his family when someone hurts them. He doesn't just jump into something, he actually looks into it first before he does one of his crazy projects. Yet, Claire is always trying to find a way to undermine it. Haley has no direction in life, Alex hates change and Luke has gotten to the point to its amazing if he knows how to use the bathroom by himself. He's not perfect, but when I look at all the characters on the show, I feel the most sad for Phil. Because he is a good guy and his family is basically a failure of self-centered asses.

I agree, if all of a sudden Eve just flat out doesn't want anything military again because she didn't get into West Point. Then its been a waste of almost three years of character basis. Many critics agree that moving Eve from a mean spirit aunt she was in seasons 2-3 to being more of mini Mike was better for her character. As pointed out, West Point would have had more pay off for Eve in the long run, but ROTC will still get her there. Not to mention, she can still enlist, nothing stopping her there. I just hope the writers don't go with how they have with Kristin and Mandy. Dreams of college and all of a sudden: Kristin wants to be a resturant owner, Mandy rather run her business out of her parent's basement. What next? Eve decides to just run the hunting department at Outdoor Man? Even Vanessa has a better career as a teacher than her leaving her energy job because her son-in-law is a moron.

I have to agree, this was one of the better episodes of the season. As mentioned above, I was both happy and sad that Eve didn't get into Westpoint. One, she did need to be knocked down a peg, that her mean attitude and believing like her sisters that she is entitled to everything, she needed a reality check. Second, it leaves to open the character up to go other places. She can still go into the military or the ROTC. Westpoint would have gotten her a bit farther faster, but it isn't the end of the world. Also, the show works so well when Mike and Vanessa are being parents. Not political straw man type or: "I'm have a PhD but no brain." Which they always fall back on when Ryan and Boyd are in the episodes. However, I do see it as an excuse that if they are renewed for a 6th season, it keeps Eve around for the series, which is a cop out and tired sitcom troupe.

Seem to be a running theme with Rory and her friends. Lane waited and then it was a disaster that resulted in being pregnant with twins. Paris feels it cost her Harvard. Her one roommate during year 1 had her boyfriend over half the time but never could get "alone time". Then you add in Professor Fletcher and Paris, which to this day, I still go: "ewww!" As a theme in the early 2000s: "Don't have sex kids, its bad!"

Something that has bothered me with Murray is his hating change. Since the show began, we know that's been part of his character, but when has he not tried to give Bev something that seemed logical. Bev comes up with some crazy ideas or schemes, but redoing the kitchen when they have the money and know how to remodel it. That was a bit much, but I agree, I think the old kitchen looked great. They really need to establish if Erica is a senior because with the sliding timelines for the 80s, I don't know if she is a junior or senior when she and Barry both have their licenses and Adam has been established as being in 8th grade as of right now.

I can actually believe that with them, Haley was born in 1995 and Alex in 97 and Luke around 2000. Ray's movies were way before that and I don't see Phil owning them. Seeing them back in the day, oh sure, but not something he be pointing out with his kids when he was busy watching High School Musical and other stuff to show he was the cool dad who liked their stuff. Something that they do since the show started was act like some of these people live in a bubble and don't know celebs or certain references. It was like with Jay talking about the famous people he had as clients in his rolodex and Mitch didn't know any of them. When they would have been on TV and movies when they were growing up. There was even a reference with Cam not knowing a certain football player back in season 3, for someone like Cam would have known him in a second. Its the classic, writing the characters to fit the plot when normally the characters would know or understand it, but they took their stupid pills that day. I have to agree, Cam and Mitch have really had great story lines this season, but it has beens separate, which means the writers seem to do it better that way. Another sign of the show needing to start moving on to an ending.

I agree, that having pretty much the original cast, sans Edward Hermman (God rest his soul). I do hope Melissa McCarthy does appear, even with her movies on their way this year and Mike and Molly now over. I can still see her being in the revival and I don't have to look to far with other Netflix series with actors who are well known and have movie careers doing series like this. Think Blacklist or House of Cards. So many actors now who have been in the game a while enjoy a nice steady paycheck. If you look at Melissa's career the last few years, outside a few hit movies, she has solely relied on her TV work the last few years.

Yes, it was originally meant to be Jared writing off of the show. AS-P and even Jared said that was always the plan. Then his show didn't get picked up and he didn't have a problem returning to GG and he thought it was an interesting story. However, he later agreed he hated how his character ended and even admitted his last appearance on GG, which was so horrendous was because he was free at the time. Jared even said it was a paycheck and then Supernatural happened. Then we never saw Dean again. Lindsey was a plot device, not a character. That's what some show creators do and they don't get the point between a character and a plot device. Especially, when fans react so negativity to it and go: "But my story was awesome, why don't you see it?" The point of her character, the forcing it down our throats that she was an aweful teenage wife was for us to accept Rory and Dean's affair but then everyone hated it. The plan, here comes Logan, Dean realizes he has no place in Rory's world and leaves. Instead of him realizing he screwed up his own life instead, he yells at Luke that they are both unwanted and Lorelai will never want him and want her parents' lives instead. Which really made everyone go: "WTF?"

What's even worst is most people want to either forget or pretend it never happened. Yet, Hawley feels the need to dig up these plot lines and fix them, when they can't be fixed.

I remember that, I actually checked on IMDB and rechecked the episode and saw that Taylor didn't have kids because of his nephew calling him that. I love that in the GG world, Anna didn't tell Luke about Anna because Luke said how annoying kids were when they went to dinner or a movie. Yet never said he didn't want them. Taylor had his nephew call him a name and he was like: "That's it!" "No kids for me!" While the Gilmores, Chris's parents didn't have more kids because one was trouble enough when they had nannies watching Lorelai and Christopher most of the time and even the both of them admitting they saw them more than their own parents. All that said, I hope we get more news on when the revival will start filming, who is involved and then we can speculate with what happened with who after that.

How true, I think would have helped both Haley and Dylan if they had actually showed them succeeding with their goals. With Haley, her getting kicked out of college and working for this wack job studio guy has done nothing for the character. Especially the extreme stupid reason Haley was kicked out and never tried going to community college or applying at another school. She talks about being this fashion big shot, but we have seen zero progress of this story. She is basically mooching off her parents, we never see her at work and there is only a passing sentence that she is still with the crazy boss. Then there is Dylan, after seeing him trying to be a male nurse and being established that he wanted a career and goals, that was suppose to make Haley realize she wanted that too. Instead, he stopped going for some reason. Became a sign twirler, then he he is trying V-neck word shirts and apparently a type of jeans to go with it. He talked about getting back with his band, which we have not seen since season 1. He ends up homeless at times and has moved in with both Cam and Mitch and then with Haley. Now, they break up for apparently good because Haley wants more in life and Dylan now has been banned from Uber because he talked to the drive too much. Its not funny, its bad writing, horrible plotting and doesn't come across funny. It makes both Haley and Dylan look like mooching loser who one day won't have their looks to get by in life. Same can be said for Andy and Beth here, they could have just had it where Andy was the one who didn't want to break up with Beth, and she decided to be nice and keep taking him back. Oh no, we get this 10 year explanation that Beth has been playing this break up/get back together game but apparently to Andy, she never cheated on him or dated other guys while they were broken up or "on a break" while Andy just did it recently with Haley after Beth and him got "engaged." Now, they want us to root for Andy and Haley now that Beth has admitted she has cheated on Andy multiple times over the last 10 year and sees no point anymore to be with Andy and is now letting him go. It makes things even more irritating when the only character that is seeing how bad or the mistakes everyone has been committing is Phil. Yet, Claire has no problems constantly pointing out Dylan's constant problems and annoying stupidity while everyone else encourages it. While the rest of the family goes: "Oh, that's ok Andy, now go give Joe a bath please."

How very true and anyone with half a mind would realize that both men and women who have that attitude towards a stranger's kids would most likely not have that attitude towards their own. Especially, since day 1, Luke was not a fan he was in his mid 30s and not only had not met the right woman but also was a bit upset he didn't have his own kids either. I do agree that Luke did have an attraction to bossy and confident women, which as said is not a bad thing. Just like how many women enjoy men who have full time jobs and have life goals. Not just: "Whatever, see where life takes me" attitudes. I also agree, we don't know the raising of Liz pre-teen years with Jess. Because Jess never came across even at his worst as someone who downright hated his mother. He was bitter and thought he was smarter than most people in Stars Hollow. However, the talk about his days in New York and his early childhood despite not having his father in his life. Never came across as neglectful, but did admit he witnessed Liz lighting up a joint now again. It seems once Jess enter the teenage years, Liz didn't try hard enough and figured she just do what she enjoyed, which was smoking pot and having someone else take care of her problems. It wasn't until just before TJ and Jess leaving Luke and dropping out of high school that she finally realized she has to stop caring about just herself. Even after at her and TJ's wedding she admitted she wanted to light up but knew she had to stop being that 20 year old who ran away from her worries. Then becoming a mom again in her early 40s made her do the rest of the wake up call and Jess finally stopped blaming everyone else for his problems. Anna did put April's needs and wants ahead of her own but it had to be the way she felt would be easiest for her ie: "Not telling Luke and letting her mom help her." As AS-P said when she originally created Anna's character her own words were: "Like Lorelai but more selfish." Hence forth: "She's my daughter, Luke!" "I make the rules." Until Luke post break up with Lorelai realized April was his kid, he had rights and Anna robbed him of the first 12 years because of Luke saying how kids were annoying when they went to dinner and a movie.

I'm part of that one too. Its a big list. I'm sorry, no matter what way you try, Anna just comes across as selfish, self-absorbed and super bitch. The 3 Ss.

I completely agree with that analogy. Kirk has done some things or was enabled into some things that really came across as creepy than quirky and funny. The Fiddler on the Roof episode is one example. Another was the suing of Luke and how some of his 1,000 jobs he had would have required licensing or advanced degrees. The mail carrier and real-estate, was at least explained in the episodes but despite the 200K he apparently had saved up, he still lived with his mother until he married Lulu, which wouldn't have been that strange if he didn't do as she told him. I remember one episode he was kicked out of the house because she hated his collection in season 2 and then got rid of it so he could move back in. If he had anywhere close to 50K in his bank account, he could have been: "Well, screw you mom, I'm moving out!" It wasn't like Kirk was some kind of spend thrift or anything. He did work good paying jobs and if he had some kind of debt or something it would have made sense to still live with his mother. However, Lane gets told to leave the house and has to scrape together money to get an apartment with her band and boyfriend without any type of job or anything. Yet, Kirk just kicked his feet up and everyone let him do things without question. At least with Urkle they were constantly trying to diminish his antics, not encourage them. Oh that was so horrible, if that would have been me, Kirk would have been a dead man or I would have filed a restraining order.

I just realized something, since the show has been off, Kirk and Lulu most likely had kids as it was talked about towards the end of the series. I can see Lulu wanting kids and Kirk trying not to be his mother. Yet, I fear the fact that Kirk ever reproduced, we know that Taylor had kids who were out of the house and were mentioned in a few episodes. Of course, I'm sure when they visited town they kept a low profile or had to deal with Kirk always over trying to do their father's bidding.

More bizzarre where he was playing the lead role in an elementary school's production of Fiddler on the Roof where everyone else in the show is below the age of 11 and had to raise his hand to ask permission to go to the bathroom? Or he is singing a love song to a 9 year old who is suppose to be his wife in the musical?

That was the thing too, also Andy kept explaining that Beth just enjoyed playing the game the last few years. Any other guy would have decided it wasn't worth it, but not Andy. He is like Phil, he is oblivious to things right in front of him. He just doesn't go into any of Phil's weird projects from raising baby ducks to trying to turn Halloween into a fun cheerful day. Or wants to show he can still have fun and not get "old". Andy just doesn't know when to realize things need to end, just like with pushing the buttons at the house a few episodes ago. Like Haley said: "Why do you keep pushing the buttons?"

As much sense as Ryan's idea outside a church that his in-laws and yes his wife and son like to go to with a manger scene saying: "Your God here." I mean, Ryan never thinks anything through and his entire "hippy"philosophy because his dad was such a jerk and everything was miserable at Christmas or any major holiday. The man is dead now, time to move on. Of course that would be like Tim Allen not throwing in an Obama joke because those aren't old either *insert eye roll*.

You do have to wonder sometimes. Its not like this is the first TV series to favorite an actor/actress and will use them because they can or find something they like about him. Of course my favorite was an actor they had on Everwood once upon a time. The main show runner liked the actor so much because he was: "hot" and while they had a story line and 12 episode contract to him. They wasted it to spend time on Sarah Drew's character and his story line was reduced to 3 episodes and then he was gone but he would show up in episodes with his shirt off or in a tank top because they "had to use him". I feel that is Andy, some of the writers have this want of not having any other show use him, so they have to keep him on. I'm sure the actor is fine, after all its a regular paycheck. However, he adds nothing to the show anymore, even with Joe. Once Jay is "retired" guess who can be home all the time with him? Yep, dear old dad of course, Gloria doesn't work but hey, that's why they need a nanny so she can try out new high heels and beauty creams.

My point exactly. The tree would have fallen a while ago if there were too many ornaments on one side. Now, Boyd or something knocking it over with a present while unwrapping, then ok. That's another thing about Ryan that irks me. He is against any focus on a major Holiday or tradition because he says it was so horrible with him growing up. Yet, he has no problem with getting presents, opening them or being handed Christmas cookies. He is such a two-faced moron.

A better episode but Ryan being so against the Nativity Scene and Kyle agreeing with him. ITS A CHURCH you dumb ass! So, of course it will be Christian based. Mike should have had Mandy and Eve due the manger scene and Ryan write the letter. Sure it worked out in the end, but I can't believe Kyle went with Ryan at first, especially for him. In fact, Kyle would have been the better choice originally, but I still don't get how the tree fell over on Christmas Day. If she had sone the ornaments on just once side, ok but the episode was depicted that this was over the course of several days and Vanessa was swamped between school and the usual Christmas tradition. The jokes were spot on though, I laughed a lot but Mike's assignments were kind of not well thought out. Also, both Eve and Mandy thinking it was funny to say those things because they found everything else boring. Sure it worked out but there is Eve and Mandy being them and being out right mean. Shocking. Boyd wasn't annoying, he was like a normal kid. Shocking.