DeeDee79

I think someone in this thread (sorry I don't know who!) stated that the CW head would keep the show going as long as Jared and Jensen want to keep it going. I would think that should give them some degree of clout, right?

They were so close on this! In season 8 when he was after Kevin and the tablet he was firmly out of frenemy mode and full on big bad and after they got a little human blood into him he became softer in season 9, then he puked up the rest of the human blood at the end of season 10 and became bad again.........and then came the never ending Lucifer nonsense.

Now that you mention it I'm surprised that they aren't also. Especially with 12 going into 13 seasons under their belt.

And this is largely the reason why I preferred Ruby 1.0 vs Ruby 2.0. He didn't trust her and barely liked her and Ruby in turn treated Sam and Dean as if they were the village idiots but it was more palatable than the version we got in season 4. Then again my bias could be showing because I preferred Katie's depiction over Genevieve's *shrugs*

I loved that scene! ?

Yes, exactly this. We all get upset when our preferred character is written shitty but it's the fault of the writers who make them OOC in order to create more drama and destroying the show for the fans in the process. I'm a Dean fan but I've always enjoyed Sam as well. In seasons 4 & 8 I hated him so much but in actuality it was because the writers made him an asshole.

True indeed!

Ugh..true dat. Thank you :(

Yes! They could have churned out some pretty good episodes if they had stuck around for a bit and they were much more interesting than the BMOL. Personally I would have preferred a season's worth of Jacob, Eldon and Papa Styne over Ketch. Also, with as lackluster as season 12 has been it's hard to believe that Dabb wrote The Prisoner which is one of my favorite episodes.

I agree. I wish that Benny had stuck around longer.

I can understand how you wouldn't have enjoyed his character but I don't see how he was a weapon against Sam. Season 8 had a ridiculous amount of angst thrown into their relationship; I just don't see Benny as the main reason for their discord. They were more or less back to their usual relationship by the time Benny went back to purgatory. But as always MMV. Agree with all of this! The bolded part is an additional reason why I loathed this episode and most of season 4 in general. Don't get me wrong Jensen's acting was stellar as always; this episode just sucked big time.

Even though I lean more towards Dean than Sam it isn't preference for the character that made me favor one speech over the other. Dean talking to Mary felt like just that: a talk. It was an emotional stream of thoughts that didn't come across as a written speech. Sam's talk with the hunters no matter how earnest felt like a cheesy, motivational speech and it didn't hit me in the feels as I'm sure it was supposed to. It wasn't Jared's delivery just bad writing IMO. P.S. what @catrox14 said :)

Not strong enough for me! I detested Alastair and Uriel was probably my least favorite angel next to Zachariah. Add in how broken Dean was at the end and it ends up as the episode that I skip over every time it airs on rerun.

I really liked Benny and his genuine friendship with Dean but I agree with @ILoveReading that the current crop of writers would probably find a way to ruin their friendship.

I'm with you; I hated that episode.

Exactly.

Yes, I get that we were told that in the finale but having him join up after the events in The Raid and seemingly being impressed by their setup just didn't fly for me.

I agree that I can see him joining up for this reason but after the events of The Raid it didn't make sense for him to be swayed into joining up considering that the Alpha Vamp was only taken out because of his hunting skills, not from anything that he had been shown by the BMOL. Sure they had the Colt but it would have been useless if Sam hadn't know how to make the bullets for it; otherwise they all would have been done for.

That sucks so much! I'll really miss Crowley :(

Absolutely. It would have been more in character for him to reveal the Colt hidden in his jacket when Dean arrived at the end and telling him that they should stick around to keep an eye on Mary. From the numerous rifts that the brothers have had regarding keeping secrets I didn't like Sam telling Mick to "give him some time" to work on Dean. That was very OOC IMO.

True, but Sam and Dean have done okay without the assistance of the Colt for years so I don't see why that would be the deciding factor. If anything I could buy that it made him join up just so he could steal it back from them.

Yes! I was completely lost when this happened because throughout the episode Sam did not seem to be impressed or taken in by what they were selling; he was only there as a courtesy to Mary. If anything I thought it would end with Mick admitting that they needed help due to the way they were totally out of their element when the vamps showed and maybe the Winchesters would show them the proper way to hunt without relying on intel and gadgets only.

I agree. I don't want Cas to be like Alt!Bobby who had no history with Sam and Dean; that actually killed my enjoyment of seeing Bobby again. I really hope that they don't go that route :(

So, so true!

I saw Ketch punking out and pulling out his gun because Dean was beating his ass even with a bum leg. I didn't see Dean as needing to be saved but more as Mary getting hers also for what he put her through. But MMV.