DeeDee79

I'm mostly indifferent to this episode with the exception of Rufus's death ( no not Rufus!!! ) but the X-Files enthusiast in me was gleeful at seeing Skinner & Mr. X sharing a scene together :)

You hit all of the reasons why I enjoy this episode! I especially liked the convo with Lisa: "you shoved my kid Dean; let's talk about it now." I know it was the truth spell at work that made her so candid but it was refreshing because it's such a true reaction to the thought of her kid being endangered regardless of how she feels about her boyfriend.

Even though I never fully warmed up to Gabriel I'd like to see an angel that's not fixated on killing Castiel as they all seem to be. I would prefer Balthazar since I absolutely loved him but I'd take Gabriel if we could get him :)

Bobby would have been a more preferable addition for season 12 instead of overused Lucifer and the underwhelming BMOL.

I wish that it was possible to like this post multiple times.

I totally agree with you on this.

Just wanted to chime in to say that while I really like Bobby this is the reason why I say that he is the only character that fits the Mary Sue description on this show.

I consign your entire post!

I didn't necessarily see it as Dean being a hypocrite for bonding with a demon; it was just another example of OOC writing to further the plot so Dean could be in a position to be told about how Sam was the intended ruler post Azazel and to illustrate how Sam may have been resurrected "wrong" when he killed her as shown by Deans brief convo with Bobby at the end.

I just tried to vote but it said that voting is closed for that round. Regarding Dean won ?

Well I did say that I could be wrong. Thanks for the clarification!

Well, I try to do so at least :)

I remember listening to the commentary on this ep and they said that Jared was in Hawaii on vacay while Jensen had to work. I always assumed that they knew he would be out for a certain period of time so they used the time to write a Dean centric ep while putting more focus on Castiel who was a brand new character that had to be fleshed out. I could be wrong...

I just saw that as Demon Dean throwing that out there to taunt Sam to throw him off balance because he didn't want to be cured. The only other person to bring that up was the actual crossroads demon right? Lester wasn't a good person; if Sam didn't hip him to demon deals he probably would have ended up killing his wife himself.

I totally agree with you on this.

Exactly!

@Pondlass1! I guessed it was The Purge because I didn't realize what a hot button Fallen Idols apparently is. Speaking for myself I adore Dean but I love Sam. I can see when they've both been wronged or when one of them is an asshole. "Hardcore" seems to imply tunnel vision in regards to one's fave and everyone seems to look at both POV's IMO.

I have a huge issue with Dean being blamed for his death. Mostly because we the viewers know that Cyrus is nothing like his family and he wants nothing more than to be free of them. Dean however has just walked into his home in which the Stynes have broken into and are in the process of setting the place on fire. After what he left behind in the compound and knowing that there are more of them out there he would absolutely see all of them as a threat including the youngest one. I agree.

I agree 100%. That's pretty tasteless.

I see; being a Dean fan I disagree but again everyone is a little biased based on who their favorite happens to be. Personally I feel that Dean and Sam are both flawed and they've both had characters fawn over and ridicule them equally if we look back at the series as a whole. As I said upthread the only Mary Sue/Gary Stu that I've seen on this show would probably be Bobby as at this point Sam and Dean have practically sainted him. That being said thanks for replying.

Soo...I'm guessing you're not a fan of Dean or just Dean throughout that particular season? Not trying to be an ass; I'm legitimately curious.

Well, depends if you think Sam owned up to his being led around by the nose or whether you think he shifted it all on Dean. Oh, I see. Thanks for the reminder!

What was the big debate about Fallen Idols? I can't think of anything that would be considered fandom divisive.

I think that the only character that came close to being a Mary Sue like character was probably Bobby.

Probably The Purge. I see a lot of episodes differently since I ventured into online fandom also. Most of the time I've been able to get a new interesting take on an ep but it doesn't always happen that way unfortunately.