shoetingstar

Not sure which post to put this in? But if you haven't seen the episode tonight: WHAT does this mean? If anything?

Dean is THEE first White, male main character I can recall being used as prop for other characters in his own story, and show. It's usually the other way around, but I'm not enjoying it happening to this particular white male!

Beautifully said. I wish there were laws against shitty shitty lazy vindictive writing. And btw, when Did Cas become Sam's bitch?

So this may be redundant, my apologies, BUT A half human, half ark-angel can kill GOD!Chuck? Adams Rib can create life but also kill GOD!Chuck. YET we got that scene between Jackie Boy and lame Hippy Adam (did he and Serafina think they were in an Adam Sandler movie?) making the point that all living things are DIVINE because God is in all creation. So that tells me if you could even kill God = You would be killing everything he created including crystal rocks and you know, yourself. I was seriously liking Billie's deal with The Empty! Angels go back to heaven, DEMONS go back to hell...Like Sam what's your damage dude? But I guess it would reset some good as well.? I think - because it's hard to tell. It's like some bizarre jigsaw puzzle where someone's kid knocked all the pieces off the table. Then the puzzle was put back with NO respect for the pieces actually having to fit together as a coherent picture.

Yes, it's awesome. And fits with the Supernatural theme! I think I might watch again soon. I really dislike the route they took with God!Chuck. However, if it was well written....Well, then I could be engaged.. The Chuck is God revelation was such a great twist. But they can't take something good and keep it good. Feels like they have beat it until it submits to being a cliched clunky mess. In general the Heaven plot started as intriguing and promising and then they just made some unfortunate decisions. Like Demons being stronger than Angels, Castiels' powers randomly coming and going...

I'm definitely in agreement with all of this! It was nice to see one accepting of Dean. But she was exposed to Dean's hunter life in very different circumstance than Cassie. Dean seemed attracted to lisa AND BEN vs. wow I'm in love with this woman, named Lisa.

These are EXCELLENT questions! I hate to say this, because I'm sensitive to how single moms are portrayed: Were they trying to say she was the stereotypical desperate single mother trope? Desperate to have a man in the house, etc... Therefore, the only one who would accept Dean being a hunter? But the more I think about it, she didn't have to deal with Dean hunting in the beginning. He wasn't hunting for the majority of their relationship, was he? He was Mr. suburban neighborhood Dad for that time. Either way, they didn't bother to give Lisa any real:

Jason would have been so fun and scary! Jensen and Megalyn had great chemistry despite all the other issues. In the context of the episode, it was revealing what Dean LONGED for though. As for their actual status: Cassie Robinson : This was a better good-bye than last time. Dean Winchester : Yeah well, maybe this time it'll be a little less permanent. Cassie Robinson : You know what? I'm a realist. I don't see much hope for us, Dean. Dean Winchester : Well, I've seen stranger things happen. Helluva lot stranger. Cassie Robinson : [smiling sadly] Good-bye, Dean. Dean Winchester : I'll see you Cassie. I will. Bittersweet, but this would have been easy enough to pick up. She couldn't see how she fit in the reality of Dean's world. When one person has doubts, the other can try to comfort them. Dean did not have the experience to really enlighten her. How does a hunter have a committed and long-distance relationship? He really didn't have any hopeful examples to offer. Either way he did promise to see her again. Dean doesn't make promises he doesn't keep and again, he doesn't lie to Cassie. When Dean told her the big family secret, she thought Dean was lying and trying to break-up with her, so she rejected him first. Earlier in the episode they decided they would try. Besides Dean having no chemistry with Lisa (very odd for Jensen!), it always seemed like he's commitment was tied to Ben. That he would not have been in touch if she didn't have that kid he thought could be his. WHO is Lisa? I wish they had invested in her. Her one grace was that she accepted Dean, hunter and all. Would she have been as forgiving if he hadn't saved her son or she didn't have a son? LOL! Dean is with you on that, in spite of the Lisa denials SAM: I'm guessing you guys worked things out? DEAN: We'll be working things out when we're ninety. So what happened? This could be seen as wholly negative, or a figure of speech? or he could perhaps see a future?... I think in general some folks have been too hard on Cassie, she was a great team with the brothers. By this episode the audience saw how Heroic Dean was. Cassie did not have that luxury when he told her the truth. She had to go on his word about something she didn't know about. And he was leaving. Lisa got to see first hand what Dean was about when he saved her son. Ooooh, I liked Jamie too. I like Jo too, I wish she had been older though.

Great points! Definitely agree about Jensen and he fans knowing Dean better- that's partly why fanfiction became a huge part of the fandom. Phew! Now I can keep my self-respect!😅

I forgot that!!! 🤯 I'm so grateful Jensen always delivers. We did get some great Dean moments though. That "Dick" reason was unnecessary. *wretches from saying anything near-good about Dabb*

I miss TWoP!! But the moderators definitely could be dicks - drunk on power lol. However, I've been rewatching in 3 different trains: Train 1: Me watching the whole of Season 1 and hoping around to various episodes depend on mood etc. Train 2 : Since my 14 year old watches now - and began with Scoobynatural. She wants to see all the funny/humorous episodes and Train 3: My indoctrination of my child has led to her getting her cousins into SPN and we watch based on their mood lol. Anyway, with these various rewatches I've been catching more and seeing things differently. The demeaning of Dean was sprinkled through throughout the seasons like cayenne pepper. It's there but you don't get full kick until later. It didn't just start past Season 6. Yellow Fever was from Season 4, he and Sam were both exposed to the disease. Per Sam, he and Bobby concluded that Dean got the disease because he's "a Dick." Also, the whole small dog chasing Dean was funny but kinda cruel when you think too long about him dying, ripped apart by the Hounds of Hell. hahaha. It served him right and I was one of those people! I took it very personal lol.

It's worth a view just have the FF button ready lol. I get push-back but I maintain Cassie made more sense. I've gotten various stories about why Cassie was not brought back (Kripke hated that episode, the actress's schedule, etc. ). Lisa only returned for her 2nd episode because of Gimble. Originally Dean's dream was supposed include Jason Voorhees, but they could not get the rights in time. So Gimble, who created Lisa, wrote her (and Ben) into Dean's dream as something he longed for.

This was unforgivable! Seems the fans know the character he created better than him. I wonder what Jensen thought of this? hmmm..

Ironically, they wrote Season One's Route 666 (which I think is no longer as hated at was before) where we got to see Dean in another light -romantic side. The fact that he dated someone, not just a one-night stand. The fact that he couldn't lie to Cassie, while Sam easily lied to Jessica (understandably) for a year. This was a huge revelation for the character at the time. Basically, he could & did want a longer relationship but was hurt. Another sacrifice to the family business. Both brothers came off well in that episode in the end. Sam was pissy when he found out Dean's secret but ended up fangirling over them lol. Also in light of Get Out, Watchmen and Lovecraft Country, mixing horror with racism elements. I think it was ahead of itself a bit. (though there are some problems, the timeline is an absolute mess. I seriously want a cut of the episode that takes Cassie's Mama's 10 mins over-acting and over-crying out. Feels like 10 years and I'm embarrassed for everyone in the scene lol. I FF through that and its a shame because she's giving the historical racism part of it.) Maybe the Kripke hate afterwards, turned them bitter lol. (apparently they did him a favor, because the original concept had to be scrapped). And re: Ruby and Gen. Gen's acting was very stiff. Definitely a case of attractiveness winning over skill. I really like Katie's Ruby once she got into it.

That one time Dean "rebelled" and grew his hair before John quickly pushed him into a barber chair (or rather, hacked it himself!). He NEVER told Sam about this, of course.

Thank you for saying this! This is where I'm at. In other news, Gizelle and her Rev. Manwhore are wasting our time with this dead storyline. They making my black crack with lines because I'm just frowning at them during their whole 3 mins scenes lol.

Someone on twitter said the episode was actually scary, so I was all ready. And - uh, yeah John Wick's Baba Yaga was way scarier than the old Bish in a Party City costume. Does anyone remember how cool Billie's introduction was? And how it seemed she would have some kind of connection to Sam? Then the Death role came which was actually intriguing but now...I'm not feeling her anymore. Though I love Lisa Berry. The Good: So I went in thinking I'd get SPN meets The Shining, which I'm surprised we haven't seen before (but my memory is foggy at this point). I LOVED the room. And the part when Dean stepped through the door, and then we got a factory on the other side, was pretty effective. Oh and the nest with the kids was disturbing. But... The Bad: Otherwise, this was all AMATUER hour. Brother keeping secrets from each other, check. Dean being demeaned more, check. People being stupid (like WTF Sister chick, WHY would you leave the room without Sam?), check. Person The Brothers couldn't save comes back to mock them, check. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Dean is one of my all-time fav fictional characters, in spite of how they demean him as much as possible. True dat!! Dean hesitated and wasn't going to at first. However, he course corrected without Sam without him having to find out from someone else. What about Caitlin saying, don't you ever wanna be, like normal or something Sam" Like Omg this is your life!" Yeah, young Sam was...I was trying to figure out who's the dead kid Dean found in the factory? Luckily the whip-smart writing had Dean say Sam's name to remind us. They've done a lot of telling and not showing on the show in general for years now. It's so annoying.

Great points and I get what you're saying. However, these women are co-workers. Candiance has chosen or was contracted to play the villain and she did a good job of it. You have to expect repercussions and I don't think she did, or she thought she was protected.

Karen has stated clearly that Monique was wrong - Candiace (like Leah on RHoNY) is putting her mommy issues on another Mentor/Older cast mate. Karen (like Ramona) was destined to disappoint. One thing I have to say: Verbal and Emotion Abuse can be just as damaging and destructive and hurtful as physical abuse. Candiace sprinkles it around like confetti. She just happens to be in an work environment that condones, encourages and feeds off it - like Verbal Worldwide Wresting VWW. This would not fly in most other situations. Monique continues to disappoint. And sadly, the show is dryer without her. Take responsibility for your actions and the consequences must be dealt with. You can't lose control and not expect some Fall Out. I still maintain these two grown-ass women should have talked out whatever was happening and this mess would not be happening. And Monique still is not admitting to thing Candiace spread rumors about her Marriage? Now, Karen does need to tell Monique she told Candiace to press charges - I think that's what's eating Karen up and why she is keeping her mouth shut. It's actually pretty smart for her to remain cautious until she can figure out what she's doing next.

I think I'm supposed to be upset about Tic dying, but while I'm upset at the way he died and his suffering. It's RUBY I am in deep mourning over. They should not have killed her, she did not have to die to make the episode's point.

Agreed. It's like Sex in the City in RL.

Well, if they cast only one black woman, she will have family and friends featured on the shows as well. Also , I would certainly welcome more than one Woman of Color in the main cast to the show and wish the show would be open to doing so. Andy's Welcome makes it official: eta: Leah got her wish. Something tells me she is going act like the bratty teen she can be and show some jealousy.

Thank you for the break down. I rewound over and over and just gave up at some point. I find it odd the show won't release the other angles filmed. If they did NOT film from various angles somebody didn't do their job. I feel like it would not support the narrative they want to push right now though. They are not above that as we know. on RHoNY they didn't show the footage of Dorinda going deranged MOB BOSS on John from the end of the last season. Tinsley had to bring it up before it was finally shown.

DUN DUN DUN. The plot thickens! That would have been a better storyline. The real reason she hates Monique lol.

Let's ask the important questions: Will T'Challa be in future episodes? Bravo - he didn't do anything wrong. He aint' his mama's keeper. Cue: It's So Hard to Say Goodbye.... I think I found his 3rd cousin from his appearance on Martin back in the day: (Not His Mama Bird or Not his Mama's Bird?! lol I just needed a laugh today, ya'll!).