Avaleigh

Is it fair to say that Garcelle has been a reasonably objective voice on this show? For the most part I feel like she's been pretty fair and straightforward. If it's supposedly common knowledge among the people involved with the show and various media outlets that Kathy used racist and homophobic language, why has Garcelle continued to be supportive of Kathy? I understand that she might not be able to comment on specifics of the incident for legal reasons but why does she still seem to be friends with Kathy? Similarly, Crystal seems like she has been relatively supportive of Kathy. Crystal and Garcelle are both cast members who are especially sensitive to this topic considering the racist bullying they've personally had to deal with. It's hard for me to believe that they'd be supportive of Kathy if she'd dropped the n word and f word to people in Aspen. I'm not saying it's impossible, I've heard stranger stuff than that in housewives land, I just don't think it seems likely based on what we know. Wrt Rinna, her past behavior absolutely plays into why I'm giving Kathy the benefit of the doubt about these rumors. It is a fact that Rinna has lied in the past. It is a fact that Rinna has exaggerated about other cast members in the past. It is a fact that Rinna is a hypocrite when it comes to "dark" unacceptable behavior. It is a fact that Rinna has gone out of her way to help oust a cast member that she wants to see gone for whatever reason. Sidenote: I've actually been able to witness first hand both Rinna and Kathy interact with staff. (Two separate sightings.) Between the two of them it was Kathy who was the warm and friendly one. Also, notably the cameras weren't present for the Kathy sighting (this was around 2017 or 2018) so this was just Kathy in a candid moment. Obviously this doesn't prove anything. I have no idea what happened or what was said in Aspen. I just feel like Kathy deserves the benefit of the doubt until more evidence is presented. I won't cancel someone based on Rinna's word alone.

I'm worried too. It seems like sometimes they'll allow someone to stay if they're talked about a lot. Erika and Rinna generate a lot of discussion kind of the way that Brandi did once upon a time. Diana otoh, not too many people are talking about her. I honestly don't even remember if she was in this episode. I think she was because I vaguely remember seeing the husband but she's not very memorable. Not a good sign for a first season housewife. Based on this finale, Rinna makes more sense to chop if they're looking to axe two cast members (Diana +1). Erika...seems like Andy thinks she's a victim too so I don't see him withdrawing his support quite yet. He's okay with people hate watching as long as they're watching.

I agree with most of your post and points about Kyle. I liked Kyle a lot in the earlier seasons of the show and I think that she's easily the least annoying between Rinna, Erika, and Dorit. I'm still mad at her about how she treated Denise and a few other things but I definitely have sympathy when it comes to her relationships with her sisters. The whole thing is messed up and I'm of the mostly unpopular opinion that Kim is the chief offender in the sister trio as opposed to being the perpetual victim that she paints herself out to be. With Kathy, I agree that it's obvious that she can be vicious when she wants to be. That being said, I think if Kyle were really concerned about maintaining a positive relationship with Kathy, she wouldn't have repeatedly gone around calling her an asshole in this episode. That's just basic How-To-Get-Along-With-Someone 101. Kyle didn't just say Kathy was being an asshole in the moment she was mouthing off to Rinna. She used the present tense. She thinks her sister is an asshole and was validating the opinion Rinna has that Kathy has a dark heart. Instead of acting like a sister who wanted to keep the relationship from going into a bad place, she shit talks her sister again while the cameras are going. Instead of Kyle being the one to jump in and defend Kathy a little, it was Faye freaking Resnick who spoke up to say something favorable about Kathy during the pile on. Faye jumped in twice to defend Kathy while Kyle decided to pile on. I know Kyle wouldn't be happy if Kathy had done the same thing to her in front of the other women. If Kathy had said that Kyle was being an asshole by not being supportive of her tequila promotion and actually mocked her efforts to promote it on camera, Kyle would have been hurt. Kyle wants to act like she hasn't done anything wrong as far as her behavior towards Kathy on the show and it isn't quite as simple as that. Kathy was 100% wrong for what she did and she knows it. She's apologized, she seems like she tried to make amends and she's gotten almost nothing but grief for it.

My mom said there's no way that her parents would have been conned by this guy. To be fair though, she grew up in an LA suburb and her family probably wasn't as sheltered as Jan and her family are. My personal opinion is that a big part of how B was able to weasel his way into their lives so easily is because they were all part of the same church. If he'd been say Catholic B. Flanagan or B. Fernandez they wouldn't have been as trusting. B and his family being LDS made them feel safe. They talked themselves into thinking that B and his family were just like them. Same love of family, same values, same social status, etc. All that being said, that doesn't let them off the hook for being terrible parents who have to bear the responsibility for the fact that they did not protect their daughter from a predator. Not putting in a missing persons report that very evening was beyond being negligent. It's very hard to see Anna Paquin in this role. I feel like she usually plays smart characters and seeing her just repeatedly dropping the ball because B stroked her character's ego a little bit is hard to watch. Even though I know how this story goes I kept half expecting her to snap out of it and realize what a creep this guy is. The scene in the kitchen should have set off all the alarm bells. He won't take no for an answer. He goes around one parent in the hope that he'll get a different answer from another parent. Like a child trying to get away with something. Why aren't they wondering why he's pushing this so hard? Then you have B's wife not mention the fact that her husband mysteriously comes home during the day and takes a bag with him. Why would she not mention that? She obviously didn't give a shit about Jan, she was just worried that her house of cards was going to fall down. She knew something was wrong with her husband and kept making excuses for him. The other thing that was so nuts to me was how they're all eating dinner the same night Jan hasn't returned home. I get feeding the kids but she and the husband should have been *doing* something. Instead they're just sitting there admittedly worried, but being totally inactive. At this point they know their daughter is missing and is alone with a man who was so desperate to take her riding that he went around the wishes of her parents to not take her out that day.

They really were. I found their reactions to getting busted to be kind of fascinating. Erika initially thinks she can play dumb "I don't know how to do that." Then she tries to stonewall her when Kyle tells her how she knows. "Interesting. My publicist did that?" Then she tries to fall back on ice queen mode because she's realizing that Kyle knows the truth. She pretends that she wants to see the evidence for herself and is hoping that this will show that she wasn't behind it. Rinna sees what's happening and immediately begins to try to steer and deflect. She indicates that the stories could have been leaked from anywhere because they're always being watched. Then Erika plays dumb again when Kyle mentions how there was a play by play of what went on at Erika's hair party. At this point, Erika is visibly flustered and Rinna has to jump in again to support Erika by questioning why the play by play wasn't published if the source in fact had all of this info. They back each other up by asking the same dumb questions. Then when they're in the car, they act incredulous that "they" the other women in the group, had the audacity to try to turn the story on them. They used the word "us". They didn't say anything about the situation being turned on Erika. They very much acknowledged that they're a duo and to me that's further proof that this "leak" was a team situation. They then use their time in the car to bring up Erika's life being blown up and bring up Lois's death. It's like they're still trying to score sympathy points as if the audience is dumb enough to forget their evil, trash bag sister act from a few moments before. Last thing, why is Faye defending Kathy more than Kyle is? She keeps referring to her sister as an asshole and seems way more concerned about her own hurt feelings instead of also being concerned that Rinna has been doing a complete character assassination of Kathy since Aspen.

Yeah, I'm not buying that Bob was just trying to be a good neighbor or however the hell they're trying to spin this. My guess is that B picked up on some level of repression in Bob and decided to exploit it for his sick end game. He wanted to have something over each of the parents so that they wouldn't challenge him as aggressively as they might have once he put his plan into motion. It also keeps their eye off of the ball wrt Jan. They don't think too deeply about him being extra fond of Jan because they talked themselves into believing that they're each the real object of B's affection.

Rinna looks like she's in a far off place in that pic. Like she's wondering how she ended up getting stuck with comforting Camille. In terms of mothering skills, Rinna gives me that "I'm not a regular mom, I'm a cool mom. ;)" vibe. The way she says "My friend Kendall Jenner"? What 59 year old woman is desperate to be friends with one or her daughters' 20something year old friends?

I think she would have done the same rant with Sutton, Crystal, Dorit, Garcelle, etc. She was just looking to vent and Rinna happened to be there. I think adding in the comments Rinna made earlier in the car "You're Kathy Hilton, you can wear whatever the fuck you want" along with Rinna opting to go back to the house with her the way a friend would do with someone who was having a bit of a meltdown--I think those factors were enough for Kathy to feel like she was with somebody she could confide in without it later turning into some big thing. She might have even mistakenly believed that Rinna felt bad about the tequila thing from earlier and was doing her best to make it up to her. I don't think she dreamed for a second that she'd be texting Erika a play by play or that she'd weaponize the situation days and weeks later.

Just theorizing: I wonder if Kathy was feeling a little bit of insecurity about her age at the club? She initially sounded like she was worried about how she was dressed and whether or not they would let her in. So she was already feeling a little uncomfortable. Then they reject her admittedly kind of weird request to form a conga line. (Just that someone on this thread was able to find a Golden Girls reference on that kind of adds to the point. The only other (fictional) conga line that I can think of was from an episode of Mad Men so there's that.) Then the DJ won't play a 40 year old song for her. Add in her baby sister regularly letting her know how uncool she is on top of being the oldest of the ladies and one of only two grandmother's in the group--maybe all this stuff combined made her feel the need to vent? I can especially see her snapping upon realizing that her name and whatever social clout she has was meaningless at this posh club where everyone is more or less on her level or better. Minutes before getting out of the car to go in the club Rinna was talking Kathy up and telling her that she can wear whatever the hell she wants because she's Kathy Hilton. Of course Kathy is going to think that she can be candid with Rinna. At that point she didn't realize what a snake Rinna is because Rinna was still playing nice at that point. Rinna even offers to go back with her to the house so of course Kathy sees Rinna as being on her side and being someone she can confide in in the moment. I think it really crystallized for her at Kyle's what an awful woman Rinna is. Kathy was being diplomatic and charitable by simply calling her 'unkind'. If I were Kathy I would never speak to Rinna again and I would ice her out of any off camera friendship circle that I had sway over. Get her to regret it the way she regrets everything with Yolanda. Good point too that it reflects poorly on Rinna that she didn't call anyone if she genuinely thought Kathy was having a psychotic episode. That's the exact opposite of what a good friend does especially if they've known each other for years and she's never seen this sort of behavior from her before. Why not cut her some slack if this was a one off? Why not give the benefit of the doubt and see if she needed to address some sort of mental health issue? Rinna didn't do any of these things because she only cares about making this a story. After almost 60 years on this Earth Rinna still hasn't worked out how to not be an asshole on a regular basis.

Is it another vampire season? I wonder if it's set in present day or if it's a period piece?

I feel bad that I'm rooting for someone to get destroyed on social media but if ever there was someone who’s had it coming for years now it's Rinna. I find it strange that Rinna decided to go in fully on Kathy. What purpose did she think it would serve in terms of her end game of keeping her diamond at any cost? There are so many side thoughts that I want to unpack with this episode. Rinna thinks that Kathy is jealous of the Kardashians? I honestly don't even think she realizes that she's projecting here. Not only that but I think this is a continuation of her weird and desperate way of sucking Kris's ass. "Kris, I just had to call Kathy Hilton out for being wildly jealous of you. Aren't I good and loyal friend? You know Delilah and Amelia would love to be part of the next SKIMS or 818 campaign..." One thing that strikes me as different about the Hilton daughters vs the Kardashian Jenner daughters is that Paris and Nicki mostly seemed happy with their original faces and bodies. Yes, there are/were alterations. Contacts for a period, extensions, probably had implants at one point, etc. But they're not unrecognizable when you look at older pictures of them. They were more or less confident in their appearance; didn't change the noses or chins, no balloon sized implants, no cartoonish butts, lips aren't completely ridiculous, etc. If nothing else, Kathy's daughters don't seem like they need to get every procedure in the book done in order to be happy and satisfy their thirsty mother. The Hiltons just don't give me the same feeling of desperation that the Kardashians do. There's plenty else that we can criticize them about but at least they aren't as addicted to fillers and surgery. One thing that hasn't been talked about that made me curious was Diana’s comment about tipping if you want to get people to do things for you when you go out. She makes it seem like the dj probably would have played Michael Jackson if Kathy had given them a hefty tip. I'm inclined to probably agree. I think Kathy is probably used to people doing what she wants without necessarily needing to tip (depending on the situation). I work in a five star hotel and Diana's point is mostly true. You aren't going to hear the word no very often if you're a generous tipper. Doormen, bellmen, reception, housekeeping, servers, concierge, lounge attendants, lobby musicians, pool staff, valet--all of these people will go the extra mile if you give them extra incentive. Sometimes there are VIP guests who are rude and demanding and still think that they're going to get a bunch of people to dance to their tune and don't think that they have to grease the wheels at all because they're just that entitled. Staff will still do their jobs, but for the people who want to hear yes no matter how tall the request, sometimes that requires tipping. Regarding the music choice of Michael Jackson, Kathy seems to be in that group who believes Michael didn't do anything. She thinks that since she knew him that it's all a bunch of rumors and people who are looking to land a payday. She probably hasn't even glanced at the mountain of evidence that indicates the uncomfortable truth that he was indeed a child predator.

I think they time traveled there at one point with Chris but IIRC it was just for one scene. There also was some kind of King of the World cutaway in a separate episode (I think). The show had an Amadeus cutaway too now that I think about it. Maybe they could have a three parter about movies that should have won for Best Picture. Then you could do L.A. Confidential, Brokeback Mountain and Goodfellas. Or maybe even Get Out.

When they showed that flashback of Kathy hiding Kyle's bag I was like, "This is the best you can come up with?!" Kyle has mocked Kathy every chance she can get this season. The way Kyle makes fun of Kathy is so mean spirited and unnecessary. It also comes across as someone who has an axe to grind. Rinna is so disgusting in her glee at being a part of this conflict. She wasn't satisfied with Kathy maintaining her composure and giving both ladies an apology that would be reasonable by the standards of the average person. She needed this to be a scene and continued to push until Kathy was in tears. There was truly nothing that Kathy could have said to satisfy Rinna. That's why Kathy left. She knew there was no point continuing to subject herself to this nonsense. The way that Rinna said she was "sorry" was so icy and unfeeling. Rinna's the one with a black heart and she's the one who needs help. Her decision to take down Kathy is such a puzzling calculation. Rinna comes off so horribly and she actually cares what fans think. She desperately wants to hang onto her diamond so I really don't get how she thought this would help. As bad as Erika is, I think Rinna might be worse. It's a tough call. They're both terrible people so I guess that's why they're BFF. Also, Kyle claims that she's in a tough spot and that the other ladies are like sisters so she doesn't want to be in the middle of their feud. Idk, I felt like she liked seeing Kathy twist in the wind. At no point did she try to be any sort of mediator. She just sat there while Rinna turned the knife and treated her sister like shit. For those who are keeping up, is the response on Twitter and elsewhere pro-Rinna or is she getting dragged? Please somebody tell me that the genpop is sounding off on this bitch.

The only one that isn't good to me is American Beauty. I think Silence of the Lambs is great. Maybe there are a few scenes that haven't aged well but all in all I think it's a home run of a movie. Forrest Gump isn't perfect but it is iconic. Lots to enjoy about it, lots to make fun of--it's entertaining and memorable. That being said, I wish they'd chosen different movies. If it had to be best picture winners I'd go with Amadeus, Titanic and Gladiator. Lots to make fun of with those three. The Godfather would be good too but it would be more fun to just do all three movies in one episode.

Whoa, the Tinkers are actually OG Aiel?!?

Is that for every subscription level? What was the reason given for this? If they only show the events live then a bunch of people won't be able to view for a multitude of reasons. It seems like every year there's something new that drives another nail into coffin of figure skating. I'm still hoping that the other American pairs teams will be able to get it together so they can take advantage of the absence of the Russians. Plus won't the Chinese only be able to send one team to Worlds next year?

Thanks guys, makes more sense. Although it's not that impressive a basement remodel for six figures. It looked kind of depressing. Not what I would expect from Beverly Hills.

Agreed on your entire post. Rinna has zero credibility. The situation with Kim was completely different. Kim was caught on camera at multiple points that season high off her ass being mean, rude and obnoxious to people. Nobody emerged unscathed after dealing with Kim Richards. With Kathy in Aspen, there's nothing to support Rinna's version of events. I think we can all agree that some things were said by Kathy (before and after the club) but Rinna seems like she's taken those comments and completely turned the molehill into a mountain with them. It couldn't be more clear to me that Rinna is exaggerating because she sees an opportunity to simultaneously take some heat off herself while playing the victim, be center of a new story, take down Kathy whom she views as a threat because viewers responded to her in a positive way, and maybe score some points with Kyle since Kyle is the de facto leader of the group.

I see this misconception all the time about Kim supporting the family. Not only did their father earn money but Kyle very much paid her own way through childhood. From the age of five until she was a senior in high school, Kyle's resume is packed. She worked just as hard as Kim. The main difference was that Kim was a genuine child star while Kyle was a working child actress. I always thought it was weird that Kim claimed that she never learned how to properly apply makeup because she'd always had someone to do it for her on set. Kyle was in the same boat but she learned. Kyle had a regular main cast tv gig almost all of high school but Kim makes it seem like she was the only one who didn't have a regular life. None of the sisters had a normal upbringing. Kyle just made more of her opportunities than Kim did. (And Kim has had some amazing opportunities in her life.) They're both incredibly damaged. Kathy is too, I suspect. I agree with your takes on the family as a whole though and how messed up the dynamic is. Big Kathy definitely wanted the girls to marry rich and Kathy paved the way by landing Rick. Regarding Kathy's anger towards Kyle, I think it's likely that she did say something to Rinna because until Aspen Kathy didn’t realize what an evil snake Rinna is and thought she could trust her. Kathy probably also thought she was safe in venting because she wasn't being filmed. Rinna is the last person anyone should confide in and it's been proven again and again. I don't think Kathy has forgiven Mauricio or Kyle for Mauricio leaving Hilton and Hyland. Rick isn't over it and it's obvious that Kathy isn't over it. They see themselves as responsible for Mauricio's success and see themselves as the wounded party because they think Mauricio shouldn't have started a rival company; a company that seems to have stolen their thunder. On top of that, Kyle is more or less HBIC on this show and Kathy needs Kyle's support to do things like promote her tequila brand and get the other ladies to go along. The fact that Kyle is being a bad sister by never missing a chance to mock Kathy and letting her overall twist in the wind this season wasn't what she was expecting and she's (rightfully) pissed. It'll be interesting to see if Kathy comes back next season. I would love it if Kathy teamed up with LVP, Sutton and Garcelle to take down Rinna (and Erika) once and for all.

How did that party cost six figures? I'm shocked that they didn't do more. No jazz band, really? Why not at least put a little more into and use it as the end of the season cast and crew party? I get why there weren't a lot of people since COVID was still a factor but I thought there'd at least be music and better decorations. I find it odd that they always want to have dress up parties across the franchises but rarely come up with anything creative. On this show alone I think they've done the 1920s theme at least three times. Roaring 20s, Halloween, 70s, 80s, Moulin Rouge, etc. is what we typically see. It would be nice if someone thought outside of the box a little when it comes to the costume parties. There are so many different themes they could have fun with. Figures from the ancient world, fairy tales, pre revolutionary France (did Sonja do this? I seem to recall her wearing something vaguely in this ballpark?), music legends, Old Hollywood, Brazilian carnival, futuristic, etc.

I do get the impression that Kathy's playing a role. (They all are to some extent but I think she'd have us believe that this is who she truly is all/most of the time.) It's not unlike how she and Paris claim that Paris was just playing a role and only recently started behaving in a more authentic way. This isn't Kathy's first time at the reality show rodeo. Far from it. By my count she's appeared on at least four not counting the failed helping homeless people pilot that they all wish we would forget existed. (I haven't and won't forget lol.) She knows the deal and isn't a newbie freshman the way most women are when they come on a housewives show for the first time. Kathy knows the deal and I think she thought that being ditzy or kooky or whatever we want to call it would endear her to audiences. I think it's mostly worked and I admit that I actually like her on the show for the most part.* I don't think she wants anything to contradict the version of herself that she's putting out there for viewers. All this being said, Kathy definitely has another side to her. I don't know what happened in Aspen and I wouldn't trust Rinna to tell me what color the sky is, but it isn't impossible for me to believe that Kathy was out of order in some way. Even if she did make a scene of some kind that doesn't excuse the way Kyle and Rinna have treated her. It's still crazy to me that those two thirst buckets can't respect the fact that Kathy is just like them in wanting to promote a business venture as part of her deal for appearing in the show. *Sidenote: I once saw Kathy at LAX a few years ago with Rick and she actually seemed nice. It was a food court type situation and she even cleaned up after herself and Rick. I was pleased to see that she didn't act like an asshole who just expected the staff to clean up after her. That earned her some goodwill in my book. Anyway, looking forward to tonight. DH wants to watch Andor and I had to insist that RHBH comes first tonight lol. Normally I wait until the next day to watch but I'm curious to see how this trip plays out.

I don't remember watching everything live... I definitely remember just selecting the event and being able to watch it. I did watch within a day or two though. Could that be it? With the Olympics I watch several of the events live including the ladies but most I caught up with later. I watched via Hulu to listen to the NBC commentary and that I DVR'd so I could check it out later. For watching all of the skaters in each event though I don't remember having to sit there and watch it live. There was some access to the event after it aired I'm just not sure how long it was available.

I thought Bill was so rude. That comment was mean spirited and totally uncalled for. I really like the comparison that having someone on your show is kind of like having them be a guest in your home. Trace handled it really well all things considered. I guess Bill thought he was being funny but I don't believe for a second that he wouldn't have been annoyed if he went onto some show and the host started out the segment "joking" about how he had shit on his nose from constantly having it up blank person's ass.

I was so resistant to getting it but I've had it for about two years now and my husband and I really like the sports coverage for the most part. For me just being able to watch all of the skaters has been such a treat. I also appreciated the skating documentaries and specials that they have. Plus there are some other non skating things that I've liked. Peacock doesn't have any original series that I've gotten into but there are occasionally some movies and docuseries that have been worth watching. Overall I think it's worth it. ETA: They had the latest Downton Abbey movie available for streaming about a month or so after it hit theaters. That definitely scored them some points with me. ;)

I didn't realize this was the last episode. What an underwhelming finale. I definitely didn't understand why they didn't use scuba gear on the second dive. Furthermore, what was the point in having the three bodies disappear if their goal is to bring attention to the murders Prescott committed? Also, why were they suddenly present for Alicia Silverstone's character since she wasn't a blood Prescott? The opening scene wasn't bad but everything else was boring and predictable. I honestly thought the acting was a little dodgy too. Black Mirror and the original Twilight Zone both handled the anthology format in a brilliant way and it's disappointing that this series and the reboot Twilight Zone were unable to be as interesting, entertaining or clever. There are ideas that have the potential to be fun but the scripts and execution are almost always lacking. They need better writers.