Avaleigh

Agreed. Take the Russians out of the equation and American ladies are still in a position where they aren't likely to medal at the big events. There's been a noticeable decline in ladies figure skating and it isn't about US ladies not having quads and triple axels. Several of our top US ladies have difficulty fully rotating their individual jumps on a regular basis. They also can't be relied upon to do triple/triple combinations. Skaters like Debi Thomas, Kristi Yamaguchi, Nancy Kerrigan and Michelle Kwan could regularly do these things back in the 80s and 90s. Mariah had to take out her triple/triple combo because she couldn't count on landing it. Alysa and Karen both struggle with underrotations. Amber can't put two clean programs together. Gracie is going to Gracie. Starr hasn't had a good season in years. Isabeau is one of the few bright spots in terms of the rising US ladies.

Could be. If nothing else, he probably isn't supportive of a narrative that he perceives to be anti Russian. He probably sees Kamila as being a victim of the Western media in addition to being a victim of Eteri's.

Yes, I felt like it was too complicated a situation to address in one post but yeah--Surya's mother was terrible. Beastly to her practically every time I saw them together. She wasn't a picnic with outsiders either. Rude, pushy, entitled and just a complete lack of respect for other skaters and their parents. What really sucks too is how many people saw her berate her daughter on a regular basis and just felt like there wasn't anything that could be done about it.

All of the skaters you named began their senior international careers before the age of 18. Coming up with an arbitrary age is not going to combat the problem of abusive coaching and abusive coaching environments. Russia should be banned. Eteri and her team should not be coaching. The "protected person" issue with regard to doping can be addressed in a more effective and meaningful way. I fail to see how raising the age to 18 will check the negative impulses of any abusive coach. (As already noted by others, Team Eteri aren't the only ones.) They'll just be keeping 18 year olds extra thin, you'll have two or three who peak at the right time and we'll have some 18 and 19 year old medalists who are going through the same abusive practices. Changing the age is not addressing the root of the problems in this sport. Also, not everyone wants to stay in the sport until they are 27 or 30. Some people want to move onto college and try other things. That should be allowed. Fans shouldn't dictate how long a skater stays on the competitive scene. If someone accomplishes all of their goals in this sport by age 19 or 20 I'm not going to get mad at them for retiring. Not everyone who goes to the Olympics at 16 is coming from an Eteri like training environment. Michelle, Lu Chen, Surya*, Sasha, Sarah, Irina, Mao, Yuna, Kimmie, Shizuka, Carolina, Kaetlyn, etc all would have been denied early international experience if they hadn't been allowed to compete as seniors until the age of 18. *Surya's mother was something else. It's too complicated to fully address in this post but I at least want to make note of that. Not all athletes have an ideal support system in place.

I agree. It would be more suspicious if she'd been perfect in every program until now but she had several rough skates last year. Add in the extra pressure she's under and the negative attention she's getting, it's no wonder that she had a bad skate. On top of that, I don't see the Russians forcing her to throw the competition because they're going to die on the hill that she hasn't done anything wrong. They wanted her to have an amazing performance and they wanted to have a podium sweep. As for where Kamila goes from here, I suppose it depends on whether or not she'll get to keep her team medal. If she's allowed to keep it then my guess is that she'll retire. Show skating is still lucrative in Russia so I'd guess she'll go that route. Retirement or not, she definitely won't have any trouble making money or finding a job. The Russian media have painted her out to be the victim and she's going to be able to cash in on that narrative. They don't think she's a cheater so she'll do interviews, put out a book, do shows, coach, etc.

Oksana represented Ukraine and is Ukrainian. That being said, Oksana herself identified as Russian and said so in more than one interview. The most notable interview of course was the Oprah interview where she was explaining the DUI. She straight up told Oprah "I am Russian." I bring this up because Oksana absolutely received a skating while being a former member of the USSR bonus. Yes, she represented Ukraine but she absolutely benefited from the judges who were part of the eastern bloc. There are many documentaries that get into this very subject including Meddling.

So basically the idea is to punish current and future women who haven't done anything wrong because the Russians are cheaters? That doesn't feel right to me. There are too many skaters under the age of 18 who were competing internationally and weren't coming from abusive training backgrounds. Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, Sarah Hughes, Tara Lipinski, Polina Edmunds, Mirai Nagasu, Kimmie Meissner, Karen Chen, etc. All of these skaters would have been negatively effected by a rule that only allows 18 year olds to compete in senior events. I doubt they would agree with the idea that not allowing them to compete was protecting them.

Instead of banning quads for women can't they just penalize the skaters who use the technique that will damage their body? If you do a quad with the wrong technique then score it as if they did a double. Penalize pre-rotation. If they don't get the reward for doing it improperly then they'll stop doing it.

We'd still have juniors competing and doing triple axels, quads etc. Junior Worlds is basically just as tough as senior worlds in terms of the skills that the athletes are doing. The JGP scene is full of these Russian girls doing the same stuff the seniors are doing. Athletes are still going to learn skills at an early age in the hope that they can keep them after their growth spurts. How will the proposed age limit fix any of this? Learning a skill at an early age is key to mastering it. It’s why most skaters start skating so young. Johnny Weir starting late was an exception. Most people are 4-6 and once you learn singles, you move onto doubles. Once you get your doubles and combos, you move onto triples. Many skaters in non abusive environments get all of their triples at a very early age. Should a skater like Michelle Kwan have spent seven years at the junior level? Waiting until she turned 18?

I agree with this. Instead of raising the age to 18, to me it makes more sense to make changes to judging and scoring in addition to putting programs and support systems in place that protect athletes from all countries. Raising the age limit isn't suddenly going to make the abuse in Russian skating go away. The problem is deeper than that and needs to be fixed in a more meaningful way. Michelle Kwan is often held up as the standard of what people want a female figure skater to be. A long career, strong technique, beautiful artistry. She was competing as a senior at the age of 12. She went to her first world championships at 13 years old. Her career benefited from having early experience. That isn't to say that I want the age to be lowered. 16 seems like a reasonable age. (And actually being 16. Not turning 16 at some point during the calendar year so that 15 year olds are still competing in the Olympics and Worlds.) It's 100% possible to have healthy athletes who aren't in abusive environments. Also, there are some athletes who want to wrap up their careers before they start college. To me that should be allowed. Not everyone wants to be an elite level skater deep into their 20s. That should be okay. ETA: Elizaveta Tuktamysheva is another example of someone who started their senior career at a young age. She was doing triple axels at 10 years old and is still able to do them in her mid twenties.

I love that she acknowledged that she didn't understand the scores. No reason Trusova should be over Wakaba. Wakaba's program was superior in every way. Trusova fell on her ass as usual but she's held up with those scores because they want her on the podium. The judges couldn't be more transparent about their blatant favoritism.

Adding to what's already been said, most of Eteri's skaters don't have great technique on their double axels so it's much harder to turn them into triples. Aliona and Kamila are exceptions and it's because they spent more time with other coaches before moving to Team Eteri.

I agree that athletes should be healthy, well-fed and protected. I'm just wondering how making the age 17 or 18 will put a stop to any of the issues the sport is currently dealing with particularly from the Russians. The focus will still be on having the athletes learn skills at as early an age as possible. Is the belief that the Russians will stop over training, drugging and underfeeding their athletes if we raise the age limit? Won't we just start having 18 and 19 year old waifs doing what Kamila, Anna and co are doing now? I'm just wondering if there's a more effective way of conquering these and many other issues the sport is currently facing. At the moment, I think maybe addressing scoring issues could be more helpful here. If you can still have programs that are rewarded for doing elememts other than quads maybe we'd start seeing more athletes who spend time developing their artistry, extension, musical interpretation, etc. Reward Jason Brown programs. Quads can be rewarded but address PCS so that they aren't excessively given to skaters who clearly don't give a shit about skating skills. A person like Kaori or Loena should still mathematically be able to medal with clean performances. Address the scoring issues and I think some of these other problems could be solved.

I'd love to see Russia get a real ban where they aren't allowed to compete at all but wouldn't the Russian skaters just end up skating for other countries? It's already happening. We'd just see Russians representing countries that were once in the USSR. It's hard not to be pessimistic about all of this. As for raising the age, yeah, they'll just falsify documents. These people are cheaters. 16 to me seems like a reasonable age to compete internationally. I agree that raising the age to 18 is just going to shorten the window for a lot of non Russian athletes. Very disappointed that Loena and Ekaterina Kurakova didn't have better skates. They were both such bright spots at the Europeans. Wakaba should be in fourth. Makes no sense how Trusova is over her. Kaori was awesome. Looking forward to seeing her in the long.

Quick note on Michelle---yes, she graduated from a "regular" high school but for the most part she didn't do in person classes and hadn't since she was about 11. Her entire youth was dedicated to skating. She had all of her triples by the time she was 11 and was competing as a senior by 12. By 13 she was constantly traveling and living the life of an elite figure skater. Same with Tara. A lot of elite skaters past and present didn't/don't do in person learning so that they can put in more hours training. Obviously though this doesn't compare to how it is for athletes in Russia. They take it to the extreme

We're in agreement on all of this. I think though from her perspective (assuming that she genuinely didn't know) she probably thought that she was following the rules. What I'm unclear about is if she deliberately and consciously broke the rules. We don't know how the drug was administered. Sometimes with state sponsored doping it can be done without the athlete knowing. If she knowingly and willingly participated in taking the drug then I agree that 15 is old enough to know that what she was doing is wrong.

See, I'm unsure about whether or not she actually had knowledge that she was taking banned substances. Even if she did know, I doubt she has much choice or say in anything that she does so she probably felt like she couldn't say no. Also, I don't know how they're spinning it to her but I'm getting the impression that they're making her out to be someone who is being victimized by everyone but Team Eteri and Russia. Maybe she's deluded enough to think that Team Eteri genuinely care for her and have her best interests at heart? I don't think she sees Eteri in the sinister way that we do. Obviously I have no idea, but I think there's a real possibility that she had no idea about the PEDs and that they've told her something along the lines of 'People are jealous of you, they don't want to see you win so they tampered with your test. We don't have the proof so we're going to get our lawyers to do everything they can to protect you. Don't worry, these people aren't going to keep you from realizing your dream.' Honestly, it kind of reminds me of being in a cult.

It's taken me awhile to process this entire situation. I'm so disappointed that such a bad call has been made. Why would anyone put their kid in a sport that doesn't have a level playing field? A lot of kids are inspired to skate by watching their first Olympics but I can't see a parent getting their kid involved in skating when the sport does nothing to protect its athletes or the overall integrity of the sport. I feel guilty that part of me still wants to watch but I want to see the other skaters. I think they should still be allowed to have their moments. I want Karen and Mariah to have skates that are even better than what they did at nationals. Alysa has been having solid practices so I'm curious to see if she can rotate her jumps and give the incredible long program that she wasn't able to do at nationals. I want to see if Loena can have a better performance than she did at Europeans. I want to see if Wakaba and You Young hit their triple axels. I want to see Kaori wake the judges up with a leg lift. I want too see who gets fourth, fifth and sixth because that will be the real podium. I disagree about worlds in an Olympic year being a dud. Olympic year Worlds have brought us so many amazing performances. A lot of redemptive skates, first time medalists or winners because of all the Olympians who choose not to compete. Off the top of my head I'm thinking of Mao and Daisuke in 2010, Cappellini and Lanotte in 2014, Yuka in 1994, Michelle in 1998, Krylova and Ovsyannikov in 1998, Shen and Zhao's first world title, Ina and Zimmerman's bronze, etc.

Agreed. There's no point in having a competition at all if the results are already predetermined. Yes, it's unlikely that one of the US ladies will medal but you never know. I certainly wouldn't have predicted Karen's fourth place finish at worlds last year. I thought for sure that Hanyu would medal. I didn't think he'd win but I felt fairly confident that he'd get second,maybe third if he had an off day. I know the assumption is that Trusova will medal but she's good for a once a year meltdown. Anna has had a couple of rocky skates too this season. You never know. You Young, Kaori, Loena, Wakaba Higuichi, and Alysa (assuming her jumps are fully rotated) all have a reasonable chance at making the podium. Mariah and Karen shouldn't be 100% out of the conversation either even though it is extremely unlikely. As they say, you never know what can happen.

I'm surprised that there isn't more of an uproar. It's like people are scared of Russia and they don't want to make too much noise so they're going to hide behind 'we don't have all of the facts' for as long as they can. At the moment if it seems like Kamila is going to compete and it isn't right. Meanwhile the Russian media wants to make it seem like it's everyone but Russia and Team Eteri who are victimizing Kamila. To them, the people who want to know the truth are bad and the people who are drugging her and covering this up are good. It's an upside down world, indeed.

You can even go back further than that. Oksana had one world title in 93 and retired right after the 94 Olympics. She was barely on the scene. Kristi won world titles in 91 and 92 in addition to her 92 Olympic win. She was active for one quad just as the skaters are these days. Debi was around for one quad. Skaters who are only around for one Olympic cycle have been standard since the days of Peggy Fleming. Michelle Kwan was exceptional. One could argue that she might well have retired in 1998 had things gone a different way in Nagano. We'll never know. I think her desire for the Olympic title was what kept her on the scene for so long. I'm thankful that she stayed around for as long as she did because it was a pleasure to watch her. That longevity turned her into a national treasure.

Regarding moves that should have been named after skaters, I always thought that the donut spin should have been called the Baiul after Oksana because she popularized it. Similarly I think the I spin should have been called a Cohen spin or a Sasha spin.

The mystery deepens lol.

Yes, I understand what a half loop is and why it was originally called that. Obviously it's not a proper loop which is why until recently people always called it a half loop. The name half loop makes sense because of the take off and landing. What isn't clear is why it's now called a euler. According to Wikipedia the etymology of euler is currently unknown. Anyway, since most people still say half loop I was wondering why they bothered to change it.

Anyone know why they renamed it? I don't know anyone who says euler. Everyone says half loop.