Avaleigh

I'm really feeling divided about Shae'smurder. On the one hand my first instinct is that not having him kill her seems like a weak ass move in terms of the showrunners being fearful that Tyrion murdering Shae would cause the audience to feel as though they've just lost the so-called "moral center" of the show. (In all honesty I don't need for a show to have a moral center or a hero or anything like that anyway. I didn't need one on The Sopranos or Mad Men, this isn't any different for me. ) I hate the idea of catering to an audience because they think things are getting too dark and unpleasant for one of their favorite characters. I also really dislike the idea of Tyrion's search being changed to being about Shae instead of Tysha. I was unhappy with the turn Tyrion took in ADWD and I can definitely do without having him rape random prostitutes, but I don't know that I think it's necessarily a bad idea for him to be haunted for life over the terrible wrong he did in killing Shae. All of that being said, it is incredibly disturbing to see how many people are calling for and rooting for Shae's death based on her statements at the trial. I guess there's this odd expectation that she ought to have been willing to die for him? I don't really understand it and that makes me feel resistant to seeing her character get killed. Another problem for me is that I just honestly find the character to be irritating in terms of the way her personality is written , so the idea of having to see her again on the show a couple of years down the road sounds like a boring waste of time and wouldn't be a reunion I'd look forward to for Tyrion. I never really got his love for her and feel that if he is meant to end up with someone it should be IMO somebody more interesting.

I can't recall much of season 2 Roose now that I'm thinking about it but it's been awhile since I saw any of those episodes. While I don't recall being unimpressed, I guess it's telling that I can't think of anything stand out off the top of my head . Most of my favorite moments I guess were from last season. In addition to delivering the news about the BoB in such a way as to bring Jaime to his knees, I of course loved the conversation he has with Walder Frey after the RW. The way he says "Forever Young" was so icy, just a perfect moment. I also thought the expression on his face when he knows that Catelyn knows what's about to go down was great. I wish we'd seen Dany maybe subtlety clenching one of her hands or some other discreet sort of body language to show how hard the moment was for her. A hard swallow, a single tear , asking to be left alone, etc. Just something extra.

Ooh, I like the idea of Sansa learning about the fake Arya marriage. The only thing is I wish she knew that Ramsay is the type of guy who makes Joffrey come across like the occasionally naughty boy scout in comparison. Re: the valonqar I think Jaime is easily the most boring and predictable option so I definitely prefer the idea of wight Tommen or even Tyrion. Cersei is never right so I think it would be a good twist if she ended up being right about this one thing. Zombie!Tommen is my first choice though. Re: an absence of Lannisters in KL next season-- Jaime should at least be around for half of the season, no? Or at least the first four episodes. Kevan will be reintroduced as a player as will Lancel. Then we'll have Tommen and Margaery in addition to Cersei. Obviously Kevan is no Tywin and Lancel is no Jaime but the numbers are basically the same. Thinking about Jaime and LS has me.nervous but there's no way Brienne would ever betray him right? Right? (Reassure me, people!) I hope the audience at least gets an episode cliffhanger here because I'mccurious to know if most Unsullied will think he's toast or not. I still feel like Jaime has one last huge heroic act to undertake and I will feel so let down if he's so easily taken out by LS. I also need him to have final conversations with both Tyrion and Cersei if possible because I feel like there's way too much unresolved stuff there. In fact apart from reunions between the Lannister siblings the only reunions that I'm looking forward to more are Jon and Sansa, Sansa and Arya, and Jon and Arya.

I agree with Maum in that I don't really feel that Dany made an epic mistake in banishing Jorah and basically feel I understand her reasons even if I do feel that book!Dany would have forgiven him. If Dany is thinking that Jorah only came to her side and stopped spying because he's in love with her, what is going to keep him loyal and content with serving her now that she's ready to have a love life again? His jealousy of Daario was obvious IMO, so I can see Dany wondering if Jorah could ever be tempted into betraying her again especially if his feelings end up getting hurt by her openly preferring some other guy. Re: The Boltons-- Ever since some poster called him a deranged, crazy-eyed hobbit refugee, that's pretty much all I see when he Ramsay is onscreen unless Roose is there to mellow out his presence. I thought book Roose was interesting in his own right but IMO show Roose intrigues me even more thanks to MM's wonderful voice and performance. With most of the characters I still have very specific images in mind but Tywin, Roose, and Ned have all been replaced with their show counterparts in my mind. Aww, Ariah, I hope your friends weren't literally crushed!;-)

Omg, dr pepper, the idea of season without King's Landing action makes me want to cry especially if it means more of the Wall, the Damphair, Essos, etc. I'm actually okay with Sansa going to the dark side if that ends up happening although I don't really think it will. . As long as she continues to climb and gain power I'll be interested in seeing whatever she does. I figured Lancel, not Qyburn, would end up being the person to sell Cersei out to the High Septon along with possibly Pycelle. I don't know that he'll be tortured but I can easily see Cersei taking one look at Lancel in the company of the High Septon to freak out and see instantly that he has been told everything about their relationship and Robert's murder.

Another good small moment that made me laugh was when Tywin made the gesture to the musicians to start playing music to get the long winded Pycelle off the stage. I'm really going to miss Tywin's presence. He owned this season from that very first scene where he's putting the wolf pelt on the fire. Tommen was smart to stay at home. Loras must be bummed too now that I think about it.

Ooh, I like youridea MsPolyTheist, about Ellaria possibly bbeing the one to poison Tywin. As far as there not really being any set up for Qyburn being a possible replacement for Moon Boy and the Kettleblacks, I felt like that might have been the point of havingJJaime question Cersei about whether or not she lets Qyburn touch her. Cersei then asks Jaime if he's jealous. I just realized that Arya's laughter in this episode sounded like the laughter of Moaning Myrtle in the Harry Potter movies. Jorah's banishment was a lot more effective in the books IMO. I also feel like book . Dany would have forgiven show Jorah based on his style of apology and lack of arrogance. What would have happened if Jorah had taken that paper away from Barristan? Honorable or not I thought it was a stereotypical boneheaded good guy move to tell a person that they're busted and about to get caught but wait, let me show you the only piece of evidence that proves that what I have to say is true. I love Barristan but really.

Who gives a dusty fuck is my new favorite phrase right now. On second viewing I also have a new appreciation for the beetle scene because it gave us a couple of curious nuggets from the childhood the Lannister siblings shared back at Casterly Rock. Incompetent wet nurses? Perverted maesters? Mentally ill children left to their own devices for hours at a time? (And we haven't even got to the fortune teller who terrorizes children.) Growing up there must have felt like such a dog eat dog environment. Jaime telling Tyrion that some Maester who was employed by their family tried to touch him once made me lol for its black humor because of course the Lannister siblings would have predatory perverts to add to the pile of fucked up, disturbing incidents from their childhood. Honestly though what must that Maester have been on to have the nerve to attempt to pull some shit like that with Tywin Lannister's golden boy? I didn't think Ellaria's reaction to the death would have been an appropriate one for Cersei. My problem with Cersei's reaction was more to do with her dialogue and body language than any thoughts that she ought to have been screaming in shocked terror as Joffrey died. I especially thought the moments in the book when she's calling to her father for help should have been kept. Ellaria was in a situation where she instantly knew it was over whereas Cersei was in a situation where she was hoping against hope that something could be done. . To me it made sense that she'd have that blank helpless thing going on. If Joffrey had been physically attacked though I could easily see something like that causing a scream similar to Ellaria's.

Ms. Poly Theist, I was wondering if Qyburn might not be a substitution for Moon Boy andtthe Kettleblacks when Tyrion tells Jaime about Cersei and Lancel. I watched the episode again and am inclined to agree that there were noticeable weak spots. I have minimal interest in the wildlings, I don't care that much about Ygritte, I like Missandei and Grey Worm but I can't say I care that much about their growing relationship. Slightly bummed that the Oberyn-poisoned-Tywin theory is officially dead at least in terms of the show. Robin doesn't seem too fussed about hiis mother's death. He made virtually no comment. For all the people including myself who were annoyed at the way the show so casually turned Jaime into a kinslayer---were they basically trying to tell us that cousin killing doesn't count after all? They might not have kept the moment of Tyrion vomiting the way I wanted them to but PD I thought PD positively nailed that the expression I imagine one would have in a moment like that. He looked entirely gutted. I would have enjoyed Jaime and Cersei exchanging at least one angry look during the fight.

Apart from the Sansa/Littlefinger scenes, I felt like I was itching to get back to KL. I too was surprised to see that Sansa came up with the story on her own. I was certain that he'd already coached her. Is there a point to aging Robert/Robin Arryn?

"[some] die squatting over their chamber pots." Thank you for that bit of foreshadowing Littlefinger. Love what they're doing with Sansa. I'm already devastated at the upcoming loss of Jaime and Tyrion. Eta: I can't with Oberyn's death right now. I looked away.

This is the first episode where I've really felt the balance of crazy shift over to Norman and away from Norma. In the first season I thought Norma was by far the more unstable of between the two but putting the murder of Norman's father aside, she just seemed able and willing to freak out over the slightest thing whereas Norman's main struggles seemed to be dealing with Norma's drama in addition to going through typical adolescent stuff. This season I'm at the point where I'm nervous anytime Norman is left alone with anyone because I know it's going to be creepy in some way and I like that. I think the show does a really excellent job of creating that constant feeling of foreboding. I think that Norma is either leaving something out regarding the story of the rape and Dylan's parentage or maybe she's even flat out lying about some element of it but something about the way she was curious to know what Caleb said to Dylan made me think that she was concerned that she might be contradicted with a different, possibly even more hurtful (but true) story. I feel bad that I actually forgot about the human trafficking storyline. Miss watson's murder isn't all that intriguing to me either. I can understand why they feel like they have to incorporate these other storylines to give the town a dark feel but I definitle watch the show because of the family drama and the trio of Norma, Norman, and Dylan.

I thought about this too and I'm wondering if "FLDS" is just a way of acknowledging that the family were fundamentalist LDS but not actually of the official FLDS church associated with the noted Barlow, Jessop, and Jeffs families. The pictures of the family in the past are conservative but they also seem a little different than pictures I've seen of families living in Hildale and Colorado City. Not as many pastels, they weren't really sporting the extreme bouffant hairstyles or braids, etc, Does anyone know the maiden names of any of the wives? I'm curious if any of them are from one of the more prominent families.

The married daughter didn't seem super happy but maybe she was just tired or something. Something about her overall demeanor seemed off to me and I kept wondering whether she had some terrible news to impart but was holding back for whatever reason. Paulie seems so incredibly sheltered. When she said that she had her babies she never imagined one of them ever *wanting* to go to Africa I couldn't help but laugh out loud because I feel quite sure that she's imagining (but has enough sense not to say) some ridiculous scenario involving spears, cannibalism, and her only boy. It's so weird for me to imagine growing up in a household where a parent would be dismayed if I wanted to spend some time traveling internationally. Paulie seems like she's in a hard place in general. Since most of her kids are so close in age it feels like they're all leaving at the same time. A lot of the kids are close in age actually so if most of the kids go to college/marry/missions and all that, they're going to have most of the children out of the house within the next five to seven years. I can see how some of them are going to be nervous about the idea of it just being the six of them plus the few remaining youngest kids. Robyn and Paulie both looked uneasy IMO at the idea of the six of them just hanging out at the beach with each other without the kids. I feel like they've more or less admitted that the kids are what keep them together in the lifestyle even though they're no longer with the church. And again we had the shot of Rosemary, Nonie, and Rhonda laughing with Brady about something while Paulie and Robyn looking quiet and uncomfortable. I wish we could find them some single LDS widowers.

I love reunion episodes. I can watch a reunion episodes for shows that I don't even watch. This is the only series of reunion episodes where I'm honestly not sure if I'd ever bother to watch it again because it's been so boring and there are so many questions that I want Andy to ask and know he won't. The amount of time being taken up with Kim is absurd IMO. I also think her so-called issues with Lisa were bullshit; I can recall Lisa calling Kim on the phone on the show; I think officially responding "not able to attend" to an invite is a polite way of getting out of attending a party; other housewives commented on Kim's absences including Camille, Taylor, Adrienne, and Kyle, but of course Lisa is the main reunion target of this season so Kim is conveniently forgetting about this. Lisa isn't the one who made people notice that she was absent from events IMO--that's all on Kim for being the one who didn't show up. Brandi talks about how Lisa was pointing the absences out for everyone but IMO everyone could see the absences for themselves. I feel like that's Kim's fault but as usual she wants to blame someone for her problems and play the pity card about how she missed even more important events, presumably events in honor of her children and family. Kim will never take responsibility for her behavior and this what continues to frustrate me when I watch her on this show. Yolanda acts so smug sometimes it just makes me want to throw a pie in her face. Of course Mohammed is chipping in on Gigi's lifestyle. IMO she's out of her mind if she expects me to believe otherwise. (Just to be clear I'm not saying there's anything wrong with him doing that.) I also really disliked the way she kept trying to tell Joyce that she should have sympathy for Brandi because of her situation and depression, like she's Saint Yolanda or something.

I think Kristen's husband seems like an asshole. I think she overdid it a bit after she finished the race in terms of having her mini meltdown with Josh, but I absolutely understand her frustration and felt like he had it coming. He flat out admitted that he didn't explain how challenging the race would be for her and since he knows she isn't used to participating in something like that, I thought his behavior was pretty inconsiderate. I also wanted to throw mud in his face when he shouted at her to "show some heart!" It's like she's doing her best and he's bitching at her because she isn't smiling or talking about how much fun she's having? I also thought that Heather made it seem like she wouldn't ditch Kristen. I don't think it's anything Kristen should hold a grudge over but I thought Heather did exactly what she said she wouldn't do when it came to leaving Kristen behind in the race. I didn't get a jealous vibe from Carole regarding Luann at all. I just felt like she thought Luann was annoying. The comments that bothered Luann were usual when Luann was being a little silly. Whether it was Luann's habit of name-dropping or Carole's crack about liking British accents on British people it seemed like she was often commenting on something that didn't really have to do with her being jealous of Luann for any particular reason. I'm completely on Carole's side on Bookgate. That being said I was a bit disappointed in the way that she handled herself particularly when she put her hand on Aviva's mouth and when she went out of her way to tell Reid that his wife is not a nice person. I thought it was a little over the top also the comment about Aviva being nothing because she's never had a job outside of the home. I do understand Carole's anger though and am willing to cut her some slack since Aviva was being so incredibly nasty and seemed like she was going out of her way to offend. I don't really understand Ramona's irritation at Heather's defense of Carole. Ramona expects her friends to defend her when it comes to Housewife drama (she especially expects loyalty from Sonja), but for some reason she can't understand why Heather is defending Carole over Bookgate? I don't really buy the idea that she was simply confused as to why Heather brought up the subject because that's the way these shows work and Ramona is a long time veteran so she knows the deal.

I'm another TWOP refugee--ready to carry on the discussion! I know the ratings for the show haven't been great but the show hasn't come across as boring to me and I hope that it ends up getting renewed since it's always interesting to see how the family and family dynamics change once reality tv cash starts flowing into the household. I know the wives get an allowance but I wonder how it works in terms of the money each wife brings into the household. Is it a common pot type set up or do the wives with jobs have more spending money than the ones who don't?