Avaleigh

For the end of the book? Jon = King Sansa = Queen (I know, I know but I think they're cousins, I don't think they see each other as siblings as they are with the others so it doesn't squick me out.) Stannis = Hand of the King Brynden Tully = Master of Laws Davos = Master of Ships Sam = Grand Maester Tyrion = Coin (Alternatively I'd have Tyrion as Hand if Stannis dies with Garlan Tyrell filling in as coin.) Bran = Master of Whispers. (Second choice Varys, long shot is Arya.) Jaime/Brienne/Barristan (All would be great LC but I'm convinced that not one is going to survive this series.)

I agree with you , Hecate7. I also disagree that Jaime's fantasy is only about life with Cersei. I thought he was demonstrating that this time around he'd like to be able have another child with Cersei and this time he wouldn't let the opinions of others keep him from holding his kid and openly being a father. The scene of Joffrey's birth suggests a man who wanted to hold his child but was told that he shouldn't for all of their sakes if he truly cares for them. He yielded quickly because Cersei's argument made sense but it isn't as though he didn't attempt to object and IMO he wanted to object because he would have wanted to be a father if it hadn't meant upsetting the entire apple cart. The way Cersei says she thinks Jaime is about to moon over him suggests to me that he was excited before Cersei splashed cold water over that idea and told him to get realistic.

I'm guessing the first divide between Jaime and Cersei will be when he refuses her offer as Hand. She mentioned that she thought he should be Hand back in the pilot episode, so I'd be surprised if they don't circle around to this now that they have the chance. She won't understand why he won't want to rule together with her and there will be more friction if he takes a more pragmatic attitude towards the Tyrells than she does. I can see him being fine with the relationship between Tommen and Margaery and not really understanding Cersei's objections. I'd be curious how Margaery would act around Jaime and vice versa since they were both in KL at the time but never really crossed paths in the books. I can see them having some benign conversation within sight of Cersei and Cersei just going nuts with irritation over this potential candidate of the YMBQ vexing her on nearly every level. I think she'll blame Tyrion being freed on Varys since he's MIA. I can also see them having completely different takes on Tywin's death. I fully expect Cersei to be happy about it based on the last conversation she had with her father. He was nothing but a bullying pain in her ass at this point. She'll be angry that Tyrion was the one to do it (she might even secretly be jealous of what Tyrion finally had the nerve to do) butwith Jaime I think she'd admit the relief she feels now that their father is gone. Jaime OTOH I expect that he'll feel some guilt over his father's death and won't appreciate whatever smug pleasure Cersei ends up revealing to him.He'll feel guilty, he won't feel like he can confide in her and the divide will likely grow from there. My only issue with Jaime going to Dorne early in the season is that he might not stay in KL long enough to get a sense of what shit ruler Cersei is and that's what I was hoping would really come between them.

If Jon/Dany does happen I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't find out she's his aunt until sometime after their relationship has been consummated. Not a long time as I don't think they'll spend much time together, but long enough for him or both of them to interact without thinking that they're relatives. I don't think Dany would think it was a big deal.

I can see skepticism and I can see the type of people who would clutch their pearls and think oh, of course a deviant like Loras would be capable of incest as though that and homosexuality are on the same level. People used that silly justification when it came to arguing Prop 8. It definitely reminds me of the conversation where Littlefinger suggests circulating the rumor that Shireen was fathered by Patchface rather than Stannis. Suggesting something so outrageous but *almost* plausible so that people wouldn't really know what to believe but those so inclined would jump on the story for whateverrreason. The smallfolk who want their so called betters to be brought low, the people who resent House Tyrell for siding with the Lannisters, people like Littlefinger or even Stannis who simply stand to gain from the rumours, etc.

Loras coming back in fine health to defend Margaery after also having the victory of securing Dragonstone? Again, something has to happen to these people already so they don't just sail on a yacht from one challenge to the next. Love the suggestion of Oliver turning treacherous and informing on the Tyrell sibs. I wonder who they'll use to be Cersei's go between and double (probably triple) crossing spy? I'll be surprised if they introduce the Merryweathers but I'm not sure who they'd have to serve their functions especially Taena. The only reason I think they might keep Taena is that she's a large window into Cersei's vulnerability and highlights what a sad, pathetic, lonely and horrible woman she is and the show has been inclined to show Cersei's sympathetic side in the past. There are multiple points where Cersei's interactions with Taena made me pity her begrudgingly. She's so desperate for a friend that she's willing to find it in someone who is so clearly untrustworthy and doesn't do anything for her but occasionally feed her own delusions. (I suppose that's the point but surely she could get that sort of blind sycophantic behavior from a woman whose loyalty she wouldn't have as much reason to doubt; at *no* time is she ever suspicious of Taena's motives. This is crazy paranoid Cersei we're talking about!) She confides in this woman information she wouldn't even share with Jaime and even, inexplicably, likes the woman so much that she thinks her son would be a suitable playmate for Tommen--I can understand that Tommen needs friends in addition to the Tyrells but Cersei's obvious unhappiness with Tommen finding friendship among House Tyrell is a sharp contrast in to her attitude towards the Merryweathers and her attitude towards them seems to be exclusively down to whatever pleasure she gets from Taena's company. Even in the final chapter in ADWD we learn that Cersei's one request if she survives her trial is to have Taena again at her side. It's incredibly odd all around but Cersei doesn't seem like she's sexually interested in Taena so Idon't really understand what it's about apart from her being an incredibly lonely woman who has never had a real friend in her entire life.

How could they be half siblings though? I don't have a problem with Jon and Dany ending up together. I doubt it'll be long term but I'm convinced that the show vision Dany had in the HotU was all about saying that her heart's desire is currently on the Wall. At the time when I first saw the scene I was shocked because it seemed like they were trying to make it blatantly obvious that they'd be the end game, even Unsullied were wondering, but the idea is so frowned upon in certain parts of the fandom that it seems like there are still more who firmly believe that it either won't happen or will be one of the cheesiest things GRRM could do in terms of relationship pairings. Re: Margaery no longer being in the Great Sept--she has to be taken back before the trial. Tarly swore that he'd return her. My thought is that they're still going to take it for granted that she'll be found innocent and won't expect an execution to take place immediately after the trial. Since Cersei's trial seems like it's going to happen first and RS will probably win, I feel like they might even have more confidence in the idea that Margaery will easily be able to walk away. Furthermore, the HS strikes me as someone who will be extremely disgruntled at the idea of Cersei winning a TBC. He's so devout that part of me thinks that he'd actually believe in Cersei's innocence if she were to win the trial or else he'd essentially have to admit to himself that the outcome of a TBC likely have nothing to do with the will of so called just gods. He might end up being even more determined to uncover some non existent sin of Margaery's just because he wants to exercise the new powers of the Faith and show that anyone can be touched.

Advance35, you explained perfectly why I can't wait for House Tyrell to start taking some major hits already. They are so arrogant, hypocritical, and duplicitous I can hardly stand it. This. This is my problem with the Tyrells in a nutshell. They willingly got into the bloody mud with the Lannisters and they still want to be all immaculate and good even though they are in it up to their necks already. Fuck that. If the Lannisters are going down, and they most certainly are, I think it's only right that their closest allies are brought down with them. It's not like the Tyrells didn't have a choice in all of this. Greed and a lust for power put them in this position and Margaery is probably going to lose her head for it.I was basically done with the Tyrells after what they did to Sansa but there are other times I've found their behavior to be frustrating, most recently in the whole matter of Cersei's Walk and not having the sense to intervene and force the HS to release Cersei so that she could be held in custody prior to the trial. That Mace and Kevan are incapable of seeing how stupid it is to leave the mother of the king hanging out to dry when their whole claim is going to be cooked if she's found guilty makes no sense to me. Mace is even considering telling the HS to fuck off altogether when it comes to Margaery and while I don't think this would be a smart move, it also shows me that he doesn't really fear/respect the HS (as he probably should) which means that his decision to not save Cersei from the Walk was more about a personal grievance with her since she's given him no reason to like her and actively tried to deny him what he'd been promised from Tywin. Stannis made sure that the legitimacy of the royal Baratheons would always be looked at in suspicion, but the Walk has absolutely burned it into everyone's brain that it's more likely the truth than not or else why would the gods suffer to make her go through the ordeal? (I assume this would be the thought of the average lowborn person.) I feel like the Tyrells stepped into this alliance with House Lannister knowing almost exactly what they'd be working with the good and the bad but now rather than working together to save this thing, it's starting to feel like it could be everyman for himself. If Margaery is executed I can see that causing some problems between Mace and his bannermen. Olenna's wrath too would be interesting to see upon the execution of her favorite granddaughter. She'd be feeling especially vengeful if Cersei ends up surviving hers against the odds.

Olenna seems confident enough in Margaery that she doesn't really worry too much about Mace being a problem. Olenna also wasn't counting on Tywin not being around and Mace suddenly being in a position where he'll be able to play a more active role. Hopefully they'll bring her back next season for the funeral but I doubt it. The idea of her not being there to bring the snark kind of sucks. I'm loving your suggestion of putting Margaery on the small council. Plus, Cersei can't argue with her being there because she'd essentially be arguing against her own presence on the council. If something like that happens it'll be interesting to get Margaery's take on things like news from the Wall, Dany and her dragons, Myrcella in Dorne, etc. One of the things I liked about show Margaery when she was first introduced was that moment she had with Littlefinger. He looks at her in a way that made it seemed like he recognized something that he sees within himself. He knew he'd be able to work with her and there's something about that which seems unsettling, but makes the character all the more intriguing to me so I'd like to see that element of Margaery explored next season. Maybe they'll create some scenes with Loras. I'm assuming they have to bring in some eye candy too for Margaery if her arrest is going to be on charges of adultery. Some guy is going to be named and I dont think there's an existing character who can be substituted for any of the men named.

If Sam isn't leaving the Wall, where does that put him during Jon's assassination, I wonder? Also, what will keep Melisandre from burning Aemon? Re: Mace--if they give him a scene alone with Margaery or maybe Loras where he is complaining about Cersei or about not being Hand. Maybe we can also hear him talk about his desire for a royal grandchild. I can hardly remember him speaking apart from that brief conversation he had with Oberyn. Since he has so far been portrayed as a fool who is even marginalized by his own family it's going to be odd that Cersei wouldn't want to have him on the small council since she wants it to be filled with weaklings and idiots. I am curious how the small council scenes will be next year and whether or not they'll introduce characters like Rosby and Aurane Waters. Littlefinger won't be around, Varys is gone, Jaime will be in Dorne. The only familiar face will be Pycelle's. I wonder if maybe they'll have Mace on the council but Cersei puts him in a position that he and Margaery find insulting. They have to reintroduce Kevan too and we have to understand why he would immediately refuse her offer as Hand since the show hasn't really established why he would care either way whether or not she remained in KL.

I think the Others might very well make it to Dorne. I'm curious if they'd be able to travel by sea. That chilling description of Hardhome and "dead things in the water" has me wondering. Re multiple people being seated on the throne before the series is over-- I don't necessarily think that Tommen's death has to happen in KL for someone else to sit on the throne. He and Cersei might very well end up making the fatal mistake of turning him into a king on the run by fleeing to Casterly Rock. If that ends up happening I can see the next person on the throne being Euron, fAegon, or maybe Stannis I think I lean towards Euron since he's supposed to be such a threat to Dany, he's on the move, and he isn't distracted by anything that's going on in the North. FAegon is the next best guess I think but I honestly think he's going to die before he makes it to KL. Stannis is still a dark horse IMO. After the person who comes after Tommen I'm guessing Dany and then finally/hopefully Jon.

I think Jaime regrets not being a father to his children particularly with Tommen and Myrcella. In his POV several times he thinks about this and about how he at least wants to be honest with them about it all. I also sensed regret on his part for allowing them to believe their father was Robert. I also got the vibe that show Jaime is going to try to be a father to Tommen. All of Tywin's children craved that validation and respect IMO. Jaime might have easily had it but for the choices he made. As far as the wife/children/Casterly Rock conversation with Tywin, I didn't think that Jaime was so much objecting to those things so much as he was objecting to those things without Cersei in the picture. I think Jaime would have been fine with being the eventual Lord of Casterly Rock if he hadn't equated it with being permanently/mostly separated from Cersei.

I'm still sad he couldn't hang on long enough to meet Dany although I understand why having that happen would have been too convenient. That said, I think it'd be nice if Jon told her about what a great man he was at some point. Similarly, I really, really, really, really hope Jon and Jorah one day have a conversation about the Old Bear. I will be heartbroken if this doesn't happen.

Fantique, I'm at the grocery store right now and your comment just made me LOL here in line to the point where I got a curious glance from the lady in front of me. I'm pretty sure that Tyrion calls them both out on the mirror masturbatory side of their relationship. Agreed too with those who think this is more the case for Cersei than Jaime. I think Jaime's love for Cersei is actually one of the purest and most absolute loves in the series . Taking away the incest for a moment and just seeing them as two people involved in a decades long affair, I see Jaime as someone who has sacrificed for Cersei again and again with little to no gain for himself apart from being the closest person in her life. Jaime gave up Casterly Rock, his inheritance, his father's respect, his role as a father and his relationship with his children, the freedom of making his own sexual choices without being accused of breaking his vows, etc. Then there's the fact of his sexual loyalty to Cersei. Sick and twisted as it may be, I thought the moment when Jaime turns down Pia showed a lot about the depth of his love for Cersei. The guy hasn't had sex in over a year, he admits he's tempted, he knows Cersei would never find out, but when he thinks about doing it, he tells himself, no, I already have a woman. As I said once over at twop, apart from Ned I can't imagine any of the other male characters displaying that sort of sexual loyalty to one person. Maybe book Loras. I can't think of many others.

Catelyn's reaction would be the best but I'd also be pretty curious to get Thorne's reaction. Maester Aemon's would have been good too.

They confirmed they aren't doing Oldtown? Damn, I was hoping that was going to be a way for Unsullied to some interesting background info since so many of them want it but without having to read the books. No point to Sarella or the FM infiltrating the Citadel?

I can totally see LF freaking out and barricading himself in either the Eyrie or Harrenhaal. I lean towards Harrenhaal because of the curse plus, I can't see them travelling back to the Eyrie again now that Winter is here. I think Varys made it clear that he's a believer in the supernatural because of the story he told Tyrion about hearing that voice when he was cut. I can't see him being as surprised, as scared, at a loss for words or anything like that. It's not so much that I see him as brave so much as I see him as someone who can quickly adapt and accept a situation. That's usually the case with LF but everything in me says that he's going to be a little weakling when shit starts to get real. Re the voice Varys heard, I was happy that made it into the show because that is some seriously creepy shit and I'm half convinced that the blue flames mean it's something to do with the Great Other. The Lord of Light is just as likely, I guess but then I'm one of those who is skeptical as to what sort of god/which one Melisandre is serving and think there's a chance she's actually a servant of the Lord whose name she dare not speak. I feel like the voice Varys heard being connected in some way with the information Melisandre sees in the flames is plausible.

The line I'm hoping they can keep is "Can I have his boots?" I'm okay with them cutting Satin only because I fear what this show might do with a character like that. Re Tywin, I basically went from seeing him as one of the most competent leaders in the story to thinking he really wasn't all that in terms of the show. He couldn't handle the situation with the Iron Bank, he had no plan, he treated the threat of Dany in the most casual manner, he failed to control Cersei and couldn't keep her in check after she made her weak threats, he didn't have the sense to put a muzzle on the Mountain wrt Elia, his own sexual hypocrisy ended up getting him killed, etc. I feel like I have more to criticize him for in terms of strategy on the show than in the books. I also wonder why he's so insistent on two alliances with the Tyrells when they're already connected with the family via Margaery and Tommen. IMO he should have been looking for money or extra ships. A Redwyne or Hightower maybe. Re Tywin's refusal to accept the truth about the incest--I was strongly reminded of the scene in s1 of Cersei telling Joffrey that he didn't really scream and cower in fear but that he fought off a direwolf. These people will believe what they want to believe and I feel like they picked that up from Tywin. I mean, when Tywin said to Olenna that Cersei was the most beautiful woman in the kingdoms, it's like he thinks simply saying something like that will make it so. Perhaps that was the case once upon a time but obviously that's no longer true, but Olenna actually had to call him on it before he'd take her point and even then he didn't really acknowledge that his daughter isn't as young as she was and likely isn't the best chance for them to have a Lannister/Tyrell take over Highgarden one day. One of Kevan's daughters should have been quite sufficient but IMO that's greedy Tywin all over.

I fully admit that I will be beyond frustrated if the Tyrells manage to weasel Aegon into even considering Margaery let alone actually marry her. The Tyrells were foolish enough to back Renly who easily had the weakest claim, they're still allowed to smell like roses even though they are in bed with Lannisters, they're murderous in their own right, greedy, duplicitous, disloyal, arrogant, etc. I'm positive that half the reason they irritate me so much is that they think they're above it all. They're down in the dirt with their allies but it's the Lannisters who continue to take the heavy hits while houses like Bolton, Frey, Tyrell, and others get the benefits of the association with House Lannister with minimal (so far) fall out.I also find it incredibly irritating that an idiot like Mace is technically the most powerful man in the realm. I still want to throttle Cersei for not choosing Randyll Tarly back when she had the chance. And somewhere in Mace's head he probably thinks he's qualified for the position. I love the suggestion of the Hightowers becoming the Great House in the Reach after the fall of the Tyrells. The Tarlys would work for me too.

Speaking for myself I'd be over the moon if Dany went to Asshai. It's the only place outside of Westeros that we haven't been where I'd like to go. Well, there and the ruins of Valyria. Those are the only two side trips I could get behind and even then I wouldn't want it to go on for too long. I feel like mentions of it in a chapter or two should be sufficient. Alternatively, I'd be satisfied with Melisandre showing us Asshai via her memories.

I guess I disagree with the idea of the grand funeral necessarily equating a dignified exit. I'm thinking about how Tywin would have felt about his death and funeral and I'm convinced that he'd be livid and embarrassed. People laughing at him and his family? Dying on the privy and having everyone in KL know about it, so that his kids know everyone is talking about it--I disagree that his exit was grand or that he'll be fondly remembered. Ned is seen as a victim by many people and it's worth noting that it's a Northern woman who would really have liked to have desecrated his corpse. Joffrey was primarily to blame for what happened to his head IMO. The most important people in KL and some of Westeros are paying witness to him all foul smelling and smiling like a fool. The king vomits and runs away in tears because the smell is so awful. To me it seemed like a very undignified and embarrassing exit for a man who cared so much about the opinions of others. The important thing for me when it comes to Joffrey's death is that he was *scared* and he knew he was going to die. Ned at least felt like he'd saved Arya and thought Catelyn, Robb, Bran, Rickon, and Jon were safe. As far as Joffrey's memory, it's true that most people didn't know that he was a monster but plenty of people did, plenty of people who matter, plus there are many who chose to hate him simply because of the incest rumors without really knowing what sort of person he was. He and Tommen are tainted with the same brush as supposedly both being this sinful incestuos spawn when anyone who'd spent about two minutes in their company together would have seen that Tommen is nothing like Joffrey, so it's frustrating to me when certain characters see them as essentially being the same. I agree that it's realistic for family rivalries in a story like this to go on for generations but it still disappoints me when certain characters that I feel know better engage in and perpetuate the sort of behavior. I'd expect someone like Cersei to raise her children to hate people just because they happened to be born to a particular house. With characters like Jon and Sansa,especially Sansa who has noted to herself just how different Joffrey and Tommen are (and this is after Ned's death and beatings), I just wish she could find it in herself to not want to be like them when it comes to wanting to infect other people with a ruthlessly blind hatred like that. Re Myrcella, I can't see why Sansa would assume that Myrcella is having an amazing time in Dorne while she, Sansa is being beaten and humiliated over in KL. On the show Myrcella seems sad and scared and isn't excited the way Sansa was when she first learned she'd be going to KL. In the books Myrcella is brave and it's Tommen who cries but Sansa notices the sweet bond between the siblings and again notes how different they are than Joffrey. Ultimately, I'd like to think that Sansa is lashing out with thoughts like these and that she wouldn't really be prejudiced to say, the offspring of one of Myrcella's kids or if she had to interact with some random Lannister like Cerenna that she wouldn't think it was a big deal. Sansa seems like she could have the emotional maturity to understand thatit's foolish to blame an entire bloodline for the actions of a few---I can't really see Arya ever making that distinction.

Yes, Tywin's reaction to the Others would be good too. We sort of got a glimpse of how he planned on dealing with the threat of Dany and I have to say I was deeply unimpressed.( Cutler on Mad Men.) He clearly wouldn't have had a clue. I'd peg Tywin for a suicide Roman General style once he saw what he was up against. Other interesting reactions would be Roose and Ramsay (what scares him?). Agreed that it would be even more exciting to get Cersei's reaction to Sansa being in power. I have mixed feelings about the Starks having this magic blood like the Targaryens but agree that it makes sense especially when I compare the relationships they have with their direwolves to the Targaryen relationships with dragons. Plus, I feel like it goes well in line with the Rhaegar/Lyanna story.

Yeah, all I'm seeing are the Starks being set up for badass greatness in one form or another while the Lannisters are steadily losing and losing. I feel like the Starks have already braved the worst and it's the other houses who still have to really watch out for more of the Bad Stuff to be headed their way. Furthermore, if I'm being really honest I don't even really fear for the lives of any of the Stark children because it seems so unlikely for the story to go there. It couldn't be more clear IMO that Jon is destined for greatness and hasn't come close to fulfilling his potential; most everyone wants Sansa to be Queen in one way or another and I agree she has an excellent chance at either being a consort of the seven kingdoms or QotN in her own right; Bran will live as long as Bloodraven and will finally fly (through Viserion with Tyrion IMO); Rickon is going to be some fierce, savage wildling; Arya is training to be this untouchable assassin and she's arguably the favorite Stark character so again, I'm not too worried about any of their fates especially not for TWoW. Kids around their ages I am worried about? Shireen, Tommen, Myrcella, Jeyne, and Tyrstane just to name a few. I guess I'm not visiting the right places because I wasn't aware of this huge love for the IB. It seems like people usually complain most about those chapters and the Dornish ones. I don't mind if D&D don't care for them, I get it but I still feel that they could make Euron a compelling villain and we wouldn't need any of the sick brother raping backstory. Littlefinger OTOH, I have noticed that he's popular but isn't that often the case with a so-called "magnificent bastard" characters? People enjoy a smart villain. Speaking of Littlefinger, it's because of a character like Littlefinger that I care about the threat of the Others . As much as I'd like to see him hang courtesy of LS or beheaded like Ned, or pushed out of the Moon Door via Sansa, I would also just love to see this asshole squirm due to something supernatural. Just seeing him getting drunk ans scared and pissing himself as White Walkers and wights storm Harrenhaal or wherever he happens to be. That being said, I'm one of those people who could easily enjoy the story if the White Walkers were taken out of it altogether. By far my favorite parts are the politics, battles, and the relationships between various characters. Dragons and White Walkers are fun and I certainly don't want them taken out of the story, I'm just wary of having too much emphasis placed on the supernatural in this series. It really will be too bad if Dany is only brought to Westeros to deal with the Others. I so want t see how other POVs and characters react to her presence once she has landed. I most want to know how Stannis would react to Dany's landing and what he'd have to say about the righteousness of her claim over his. Jon's reaction interests me of course since this is asoiaf afterall.. Cersei's reaction, if she's still alive at that point should be priceless.

I disagree when I think about some of those examples. Does the state of Tywin's corpse really not count as being desecrated? What about his memory among the smallfolk? Kevan and Genna were probably the only people who truly mourned his loss.Vargo Hoat received one of the most grisly deaths imaginable. It was a lot worse than losing his hand and maybe getting a quick death by sword. Joffrey's death was satisfying IMO and I felt like it was decent payback for Ned even if Sansa wasn't knowingly an accomplice. I also disagree with the idea that Robb's reputation is forever trashed. He seems to be remembered well more often than not. He became a warrior legend who never lost a battle and I don't feel like his death really changed that. I agree that Oberyn died feeling avenged and as awful as his death was I honestly think the Mountain's is worse. Who wouldn't take seconds of maximum pain as opposed to weeks/months? Cersei wasn't punished for her real crimes true, but her reputation has been wrecked all the same. She's hated by lowborn and highborn alike and is on house arrest until her trial where she might be killed. I feel like that qualifies as a psychologically terrifying situation and am confident that she's in for plenty more misery if she ends up winning. Euron and Victarion haven't been around long enough for me to wonder why they haven't yet received just payback for being murderous rapists. I can understand wondering why we have to put up with them in the first place but to introduce Victarion as a POV only to have him killed say by someone he'd raped in the past, for me that would have felt like Quentyn all over again--introducing a new POV for minor reasons and kill off the POV cause that'll be !gasp!shocking. I'm guessing Victarion's fiery death should be coming along in the beginning of TWoW. Lysa's death felt proportionate to her crimes IMO and she's another one whose reputation has suffered. Jaime's quote about how he feels that he's basically lost everything yet he's still being told that House Lannister won the war---I see where he's coming from and I don't think Tommen still being on the throne means that House Lannister hasn't taken some positively devastating hits and losses just as Houses Martell, Stark, Tully, Arryn, and Greyjoy have. The house that is missing from this list is the mostly "good" House Tyrell. Loras might well be mortally wounded but the news was delivered in such a way that I can't say I'm convinced. If anything feels somewhat lopsided it's that the Tyrells can swoop into the snakepit that is KL, participate in a regicide where they were planning on framing an innocent girl, and easily get away with it. I agree with you, ElizaD, regarding GRRM only having himself to blame when it comes to Dany's progress.

I know there are some who feel that villains in ASOIAF don't really ever get their comeuppance but I don't really feel like that's the case. When I think of the fates of characters like Tywin, Vargo Hoat, Theon, Gregor, Joffrey, Janos, Viserys, Lysa, etc I guess I've never really agreed with this idea that only the bad characters win or that the good characters always or often suffer more than the other characters. (Cersei, Robert, Jorah, and Jaime are other characters who come to mind in terms of getting serious, life changing, ruinous payback in one form or another becauseof various decisions and choices they ended up making.) There are a few Freys who deserve the chopping block but I do disagree with the idea of exterminating House Frey. I just can't get behind the idea that they all should die via LS because of their asshole patriarch Walder. I was also disappointed in Sansa when she thought to herself that she'd raise her children to hate all Lannisters. It's understandable to a degree but still disappointing as it's the sort of thought I'd expect from Arya. Sansa herself recognized that Myrcella and Tommen were good kids but that still didn't stop her from grouping them in with the people she hates. We aren't in the heads of Tommen or Myrcella but it's hard for me to believe that they'd have such hostile feelings about Sansa or Starks in general. Being in a position of privilege doesn't necessarily keep people from feeling sympathetic to others especially when the people in question are eight and nine years old and seemingly sweet and sensitive.