Avaleigh

I agree that the Tarlys seem like they might end up falling out with the Tyrells. I'm guessing there's a plot related reason for why Randyll Tarly is the one who has the task of returning Margaery to the Sept for trial. Mace seems like he's on the verge of telling the High Septon to fuck off but it's Randyll Tarly's word that will be broken if they fail to comply and I can't see Randyll not caring about something like that. I feel like Margaery living is the least exciting option. Apart from marrying for a fourth time I don't feel like there's all that much she can bring to the table as far as the overall plot goes.

I think Myrcella will die before Tommen and that it will be this that causes Cersei to stupidly turn Tommen into a king on the run. When the going gets tough Cersei is inclined to run (quite literally in the case of her arrest at the Great Sept) and she's already voiced her thoughts about her wish that court could be moved to the more comfortable Casterly Rock, although at least when the conversation comes up with Jaime she admits she understands it would be a bad idea . I can see Cersei trying to burn down the Red Keep before they leave. I think we're being lulled into a false sense of security wrt Margaery and her trial. I think she'll either lose the trial and be executed or that Mace, now that he no longer has Kevan to keep him in check, might refuse altogether to have Margaery present herself for trial and she'll be found guilty because of this. I'm torn about Robin Arryn too. I can see that he isn't meant to live long but they need him right now plus, what if Harry the Heir won't easily be pushed around by Littlefinger? Edmure Tully--he probably has to go if that plot is ever going to move forward. Doran makes sense too now that I think about it. He'll be gutted over news of Quentyn. I think Trystane will live and that's one of the reasons his role has been expanded on the show.

I forgot about fAegon and JonCon. I'll throw Arianne into this pool too since she's inclined to be reckless. I wonder if she'd be misguided enough to try to pair up with Euron once things go south for fAegon? I can't believe I forgot earlier about Kevan and Pycelle. I thought I was reaching a bit by including Varamyr as a main death. The show makes me think Shireen might end up being a victim of Melisandre's. Ramsay should get his but I doubt I'll be so lucky as to have this happen in the next book. I will cry if Jorah doesn't make it make it back to Westeros. I can deal with him dying in battle but not in Essos. Of course I'd prefer to have him survive and join the Night's Watch (assuming there is such a thing after the epic battle) but I'm basically okay with any fate as long as he makes it back to Westeros and fights in at least one battle.

The main reason I don't have Barristan down for death in TWOW is because I think he'll return to Westeros with Dany and that seems like it might not even happen in this book. The Lannisters fucked up when they dismissed Barristan and IMO the only way this will end up biting them in the ass is if they/Cersei see that Selmy is now with Dany. Barristan's presence by her side will also give her some additional cred in terms of her claim maybe being more palatable to those who might see her as some almost foreign conqueror. Also, if we lose Selmy during the Battle of Meereen then that's it as far as him telling Dany more about Aerys, Rhaegar, Rhaella, etc.

I felt like young Nucky took umbrage over the kid mocking the lady who'd just been kind enough to give him a tip. She even complimented the kid and said something about what a nice young man he is and Nucky was basically all like hell he is! I definitely felt his frustration. It reminded me of a moment in the show The Sopranos where straight living, non-wiseguy Artie Bucco was telling mob boss Tony about how his father would always say to him, paraphrasing, "You'll see. Be honest and hardworking and all of the good things will come and the sacrifices and choice of not going into the mob lifestyle will all have been worth it." Artie basically felt like a fool for choosing the straight path in life and seemed too depressed to see the up side to not living a life of crime. Nucky seems to have made the choice early on but he might well have been more of an Artie if he hadn't had the Commodore in his ear explaining the way it all works in AC.

So what do people's death pools look like for TWOW? The first three books in the series each have dozens of deaths with the first two books having some five or six significant deaths with ASOS having about ten or so. The death count in the last two books seems to be smaller and there don't seem to be as many significant deaths in comparison to the first three books. In AFFC I'd argue that Maester Aemon was the main important death along possibly with POV Arys Oakheart. In ADWD it was Varamyr, Janos, and Quentyn. (I don't think Jon is dead or will remain dead so for me it doesn't really count.) Compare that with the death list in AGOT which also includes Viserys, Drogo, Jon Arryn, Robert, Ned, etc. I know it is often said that no one is safe in GRRM's world but I personally don't get that impression and feel that there are some characters who are decidedly safe. For me the last super shocking death was Tywin's so I'm hoping TWOW will really bring it on this score because I feel like we're overdue. So, going with the idea that we're about due for at least five significant deaths my list includes-- Victarion - I think he'll be roasted by a dragon after using the horn Lancel - he'll die defending the Faith Margaery - she'll lose her trial Myrcella - not sure how yet but Arianne and Aegon might be partly to blame Stannis - I'm going out on a limb with this one but I think it's possible since I don't see him winning the IT. Lesser but still important Cotter Pyke Khal Pono Hizdahr

Glad I thought to look for this thread before everything begins to get underway. I'm really looking forward to seeing Jason Brown's program to Tristan. It isn't a piece that I remember hearing too often in skating. The one program I can think of off the top of my head where the music was used came from Sale and Pelletier around 2001. I'm also looking forward to Mirai's Madame Butterfly. I like that some people are going for opera. I was dreading the music choices certain people would make and after Jason Brown's pick for his exhibitions last season, fun choreography aside, I basically had Tim Gunn style *concerns* so I'm glad to see they were unwarranted. I understand both sides of the Jeremy Abbott thing. On the one hand I want to give the guy a break and on the other I'm like fuck that, how many times already? I have a soft spot for headcases and screw ups but he's reaching the end of the line for me. Random question but thinking about Miki Ando retiring after having her daughter, are there any other notable skaters apart from Irina Slutskaya and Ekaterina Gordeeva who had a child and went back to compete and do well? As for the various rule changes I'm super happy about the death spiral changes regarding the change of arm. If only something similar could be done regarding the layback so that most of them don't have to look alike.

I don't know that we need to see any of the torture FA goes through. Some off stage screams and cries coupled with a tearful conversation of some kind should do the trick. Another reason I'd like it to be Jeyne Poole is that I feel like they could give her a bit of Lady Dustin's character. I'd prefer to have both characters but if made to choose I think Jeyne is easily more important. I can see Theon and show Jeyne having a conversation about how they both wanted to be Starks and how maybe with Jeyne it was something she actively wished for at one point only to have it sort of come true in such horrifying fashion. We could hear that she was a friend of Sansa's but was also always a little jealous of her too. Instead of mentioning having had an affair with Robb as Lady Dustin did with Brandon, maybe she just reminisces about the crush she had on him before they all left Winterfell. I also think it's crucial that Jeyne or whoever it ends up being menions Littlefinger's role in all of this. The audience needs another reminder about how horrible he is IMO. He's gotten a lot of undeserved credit for saving Sansa from Lysa among other things. I sometimes get the impression that a lot of Unsullied viewers see him in a much more favorable light than many bookreaders do.

Wasn't Gretchen Mol also listed as a guest star the first couple of seasons? Bookrat, in the first of the scenes in Cuba they showed that it was Havana 1931.

I agree with Hecate7 in that I feel Theon's story will be almost pointless without Fake Arya. I can deal with Fake Arya being some random girl but would prefer for them to just go with the Jeyne Poole character. I don't see the point in introducing a new character when they already have a character they can just go with whose name at least has already been put out there. I would definitely read the notes before watching the show ending if I had the option. I spoiled myself silly for a lot of ADWD. I think the main stuff I didn't know about were Jon's Julius Caesar moment, the Pink letter, and the stuff with either Bran or Davos. As excited as I am to head into this season as a partially Unsullied, I know I'll be all over any Sansa spoilers that happen to get out. I can't help myself!

I didn't hate the flashbacks but if there are too many of them with him as a kid I'm going to feel like we'll be heading for Dick Whitman territory and we know that isn't necessarily a good thing. For me the episode had very little cohesion and felt a bit disjointed at times. It also felt like the episode barely had anything to do with AC or the boardwalk especially if we take away the flashbacks. Hated the throwaway line about AR. If they're all about flashbacks this season his death is something I'd like to see. I feel so cheated wrt his storyline. We get Masseria's death and not AR's? I wanted both but if forced to choose...we spent way more time with Rothstein. I wish Stuhlbarg would have been allowed to finish what he started. Lambie, I'm glad somebody else wondered about Lucky's STD and what in general was being passed around during that ceremony. I was surprised about Margaret's boss's suicide but at the same time I didn't care that much after the initial shock. We barely knew anything about their relationship save the fact that she was helping him scam people and now it appears that she's going to continue on working at this place, which is great for her and the kids , but again, why should I care about this? She isn't tied to anyone in the main story and barely was last season. If we're going to spend time with a female character who is no longer tied to the main story I'd prefer to get a glimpse of Gillian. Not too much of one because I usually find jail and hospital storylines to be tedious but I wouldn't mind one or two flashbacks from her if they give us more insight into characters like Nucky, the Commodore, and Jimmy. I was not looking forward to multiple episodes of Chalky in a chain gang so at least that isn't happening. I hate that we have no idea how he ended up there and or how his family is faring post-Maybelle's death. Re: being listed as a "guest star"--it isn't necessarily a bad thing and can sometimes mean more money for the actor. A famous example is Heather Locklear always being listed as a guest star on Melrose Place in spite of the fact that she was basically the show's star from season 2 until whenever the show ended. I suspect AY's agent probably got him a nice little deal.

Yeah, I would be super disappointed if certain unnamed people ended up being co-writers for the next book. That's just the opposite of a good idea IMO. I'm not opposed to GRRM getting a co-writer in theory but I'd be super worried about who he'd choose. Re cannibalism-- how did I miss the info regarding the Vargo Hoat roast? Taking the roast definition either way it almost sounds kind of fun. And now I'm laughing from imagining the prominent figures of Westeros hosting their own Dean Martin style roasts. Imagine someone like Roose or Tywin being totally lampooned?

If they hadn't made Sam and Nicole leave Bon Temps for no reason, Sam could have been the character to marry Hoyt and Jessica. I never really felt that Jessica had gone to the dark side so I didn't need her to kill Andy's daughters in order to then put her on some sort of redemption path. There's really no coming back from shit like that so rather than feeling that Jessica "redeemed" herself, I was basically just ignoring the fact that it ever happened; kind of like how Andy, Adilyn, and everyone else in that town moved on and seemingly forgot that it ever happened. It's almost like their deaths were brushed off because of their background and the circumstances of their birth. For me it would have been nice if they'd explored more of the Sookie/Adilyn/fairy dynamic since Sookie accepting her fae side was apparently supposed to be a thing for her this season given the decision she made to not use her light on Bill. I would have enjoyed seeing them simply having a conversation about how awkward it can sometimes be to overhear people's thoughts and maybe Sookie could have given Adilyn a tip about how to deal or what she does when she tries to shut it all out.

After reading everyone else's thoughts I feel like Bill should either have walked into the sun or allowed the Hep-V to run its course. Alternatively, I think I also would have been fine with him drinking from Sarah only to have it not work on him. This. It really can't be said enough. After reading the quotes Jjrmt posted, I'm just wondering how that producer can't see that he's basically talking out of both sides of his mouth? Nicole and Sam move back to Bon Temps and we're supposed to assume it's safe? Crazy shit happened in Bon Temps well before Hep-V but I guess Nicole thinks everything is okay now because of the Sarah Newlin beverage? What about her claim that Bon Temps attracted more craziness and weird drama than the average town? Vampire, werewolves, shifters, faeries--they're all still a presence so what else has changed for her to think it's good enough for her family now? I still have no idea why we spent so much time with Adilyn and her stepbrother. They really didn't make too many interesting choices when it came to dealing with faeries on the show. It's also hard to believe that Andy ended up being so cool with Jessica considering what all ended up happening there. No way would I think that Jessica had killed three of Andy's daughters the way he was all ready and happy to marry her to Hoyt.

Thank you for this. I guess I'm having some cognitive dissonance right now because while Sookie's love life was the least interesting thing to me about the show I think it's total bullshit when a producer actually says that the love life that they've focused on every damn season is now conveniently irrelevant when it comes to the finale. Seriously, what in the ever loving fuck when it comes to the lame ass justifications showrunners try to get the audience to buy once they realize how many people hate what they've done. It reminds me of all the stupid shit that was said after the end of Dexter and The Sopranos. With Dexter the showrunners acted shocked that people didn't understand Dexter giving up his son; with The Sopranos David Chase got all pissed off that people actually wanted to know for sure whether the lead character died or not (for the record I think he did die but the refusal to confirm makes it a never ending debate for certain people; with True Blood I feel like they're basically saying that viewers were wrong to think that Sookie's love life was a huge and relevant part of the show. I wish they hadn't put so much emphasis on it, but since they did, and they know they fucking did, what the hell? It was so stupid of them to kill off Alcide when he could have been the perfect stand in guy for her to have the happy ending that they so obviously wanted her to have. Instead it's some nameless guy and we'll never know how she was able to come to terms with all of her relationship issues and bullshit. Ugh, I concede that even Bill living and us getting the horribly cheesy ending of him turning human and he and Sookie having their own family would have been better than this. Not much better mind you, I still would have been complaining, I admit, but I don't think I would have been frustrated. I wonder what made them ultimately think it would be better to kill Bill than to have he and Sookie end up together? Why kill Alcide if they wanted Sookie to end up with a human? I don't get any of these choices.

I went in to this finale with low expectations and it still completely sucked save a couple of moments from Eric and Pam. I also got a kick out of Holly and Arlene being excited to check out Vampire Bill's house. (Funny that the couple with the least need for space ends up getting such a large house. And yeah, I too wondered about the property taxes but with a show like this I suspect that we aren't supposed to give it too much thought.) The best thing I can say is that it wasn't quite as terrible as the Dexter finale. Almost as bad but I give Dexter the edge for being worse as I felt it didn't have a single redeeming quality. With the TB finale at least we got the scene of Eric in the Yakuza car. I was disturbed by Sarah's fate. I thought it was a bit much and can't say that I felt especially amused. OTOH I was at least appreciative that Pam didn't turn her and that Sarah wasn't able to get away with fucking herself into a position of authority again. I thought Bill was going to turn human as well and also thought his tears seemed watery. I'm glad they chose death for Bill but I hated the way they did it and it makes no sense to me that he'd want to force Sookie to kill him. I feel like Godric went out like a boss in comparison. Bill IMO came across like a selfish jerk all the way to the end. I even thought his desire to have Sookie use the last of her light was more about him not liking the idea of her hooking up with another vampire than anything about her general well being. The actual death scene was boring and I swear Bill and Sookie repeated a conversation in the same damned scene! I'd have to go back and rewatch (not happening) but I wanted to shout at them to just get the hell on with it already. @Jjrmt-- I'm sorry you were disappointed as well and since the signs seemed to be pointing to Bill and Sookie getting that happy ending I'm sure that seeing his true death wasn't exactly fun time viewing. The wedding was boring and it felt weird that I was apparently supposed to be rooting for this union to happen even though there are all kinds of lies and lack of clarification involved. No point either in Jessica/Jason ultimately. Why have the characters have sex again? Why have Jason make it seem like his feelings forJJessica were stronger than with anyone else? Why have Jessica claim to be in love with Jason at one point?

I don't know if they were hot exactly but yeah, lol. The thought about the Commodore and Louanne had previously occurred to me. The other thing that crossed my mind is that Nucky might also have eventually had a sexual relationship/encounter with a still underage Gillian and that this was part of her hold on him for so many years. Not suggesting that it would have been a long term thing or that she was necessarily as young as 13 but still young enough for it to maybe be unsettling.

I honestly don't think that Rickon has been eaten. What would be the point in killing him off when he's had such a minor role thus far? Are we sure the unicorn was the victor in that little skirmish? I didn't realize that we knew for sure that Shaggydog had been "grievously" wounded. Also, what's the point in having Davos connect with Manderly if not to do something with Rickon? IMO plotwise even Quentyn ended up serving a function. Rickon OTOH not so much , at least not yet. I figure he's around for a reason and am guessing that he'll be the Stark who ends up with Winterfell. ETA Sorry, just saw the quote. I guess I disagree that it looks like the unicorn has the upper hand so to speak in this situation but I'll admit that upon rereading this I immediately thought back to the first book where the stag and the direwolf were found dead and entwined.

I'm curious to know if we'll end up seeing young Gillian in this episode. The fact that they're flashing back to this pivotal period in the lives of two or three of the main characters makes me wonder if we're going to learn something extra about the Commodore/Nucky/Gillian situation. I figured that we already knew all there was to know about the arrangement they had going on but now I'm thinking there's more to it than what we've been told.

From the s7e9 thread: Thank you for this, ITA. It's too stupid. Just another of the thousand dumb and inconsistent things about this season. It hasn't only been Sookie. I'm just thinking of the family standing by after dark while two high people were assaulting their lawn. I'm thinking of Bridget and Adilyn and her stepbrother. There's just no sense of urgency that roaming Hep-V vamps are a problem. Nor is it entirely clear if Hep-V makes a vampire more dangerous when it comes to attacking humans or not. On the one hand it seemed like the idea was that the Hep-V made vampires more aggressive and more likely to take chances because of feeling like they're going to die soon anyway. OTOH we have people like Bill, Eric, the teacher, and those people in the waiting room of that lawyer who seem like they're easily able to control themselves even though they're suffering from the virus. It feels inconsistent like almost everything this season. Then of course there's the additional problem of the idea that Sam and Nicole are going to automatically be safe because they've left Bon Temps even though the show has made it a point to show that the dangerous Hep-V vamps are supposed to be all over the place and not just in Bon Temps. I'm not even sure I really agree with this. I like the idea of shows that I've been watching since day one focusing on the characters that I've grown to care about but I don't feel like that's coming across all that well this season if indeed that's what they've been trying to do. Tara's story was a mess, a total failure IMO, and I don't feel like it taught me anything new about her or gave her any sort of satisfying closure. I find it hard to believe that the writers would really think viewers would be interested in seeing LM get closure. With the Jessica/James/Lafayette triangle--we barely knew James so to me the stakes weren't really all that high for me in terms of who James ended up with. I didn't feel chemistry on either side and I don't feel that James has given us much character insight when it comes to Jessica or Lafayette. I don't feel like I got to know either character better this season. Lafayette was especially wasted. Sure he got a boyfriend and I guess I'm happy if he's happy but there wasn't anything interesting or exciting about his storylines this season. Alcide had been with the show for a long time and I thought his send off sucked as well. I didn't feel that his death brought anything interesting to the table. All it did was make me irritated with Sookie. With Eric and Pam, we have at least had some fun backstory. These have been among the scenes that I've enjoyed most this season and that's...sad and disappointing because Eric and Pam really haven't been up to all that much. When a flashback of the two of them owning a video store is one of the highlights of the season--IMO that's a pretty strong indicator as to how badly this season has sucked. The Sylvie stuff? IMO it didn't do anything interesting for Eric's character nor did it make any sense to introduce the great love of Eric's life this late in the game. If Sylvie was supposed to give viewers more insight into Eric's character, I think that was a huge failure. I already understood the depth of the Eric/Pam relationship without needing the addition of a cardboard character like Sylvie. If the plan was to bring back Hoyt all along, I don't think it was well set up and it should have at least happened last season. Also, if this season is supposed to be all about spending time with the characters we've grown to love, I don't understand forcing a character like Bridget into the equation. Why is she necessary to wrap up the Jason/Jessica/Hoyt situation? Instead it comes across like they're trying to wrap everything up in a neat little bow and it's boring as hell not to mention super predictable. We've spent massive amounts of time with the Yakuza doing practically the same thing every episode. We had way too much of new character Violet only to have that end with barely a whimper. For me this just hasn't been a season where I feel like they've been focusing on popular characters who still have interesting stories to tell. Instead it feels like a lot of filler, a lot of recycled and repetitive ideas, a lot of time spent on new characters (but then totally dropping newbies like Willa), and a lot of lacklustre stories for the surviving main characters. Apart from Dexter I don't think I've ever been so disappointed in a final season of a show and I went into this with low expectations. Edited for all kinds of shit. I hate autocorrect!

Lol, I guess "obstacle" wasn't the right word as it wasn't my intention to imply or suggest that a couple would need the permission of a sibling in order to wed. By obstacle I guess I meant that I could see Arya not being happy about the situation putting a damper on on that potential union particularly for Jon. I can't explain why exactly but I feel like it would matter to both Sansa and Jon if the only other person* who really remembers the happier days at Winterfell ended up openly disapproving of or feeling hurt by it or say giving the opinion that Ned and Catelyn would both have likely had objections. I feel like that wouldn't be something that either character would be able to easily brush off especially Jon. All that being said, I have my doubts as to Arya being around them if this even ends up happening. I definitely see reunions happening for the Starks and I don't think any more Starks are marked for death, but I still see Arya basically being a loner for life or at least somebody who won't be content to stay in one place for long, not even Winterfell. I could see it maybe even being a situation where the marriage happens after Arya chooses to go off on her own again. *Obviously Bran remembers too but since I don't think he's leaving the cave I don't really ever see him directly interacting with his siblings again. I'm not counting weirwood interaction at this point just based on

I suppose, but we know there are half breeds running around. Sookie met one in Texas one time and of course there was her cousin. I'm sure there are others. I doubt Adilyn is the only half faerie running around the country. Plus, if Hep-V has a different reaction with faeries, who is to say that there wouldn't be different strains for other supes like werewolves and shifters? I'm just skeptical of the idea that Eric wouldn't have to worry about getting Hep-V again.

I'm responding in the all episodes thread.

From the spoiler thread: I wasn't suggesting that Mary should earn points for not telling them about Edith's betrayal of the family. I was saying that Edith lucked out in not having them ever find out about what she'd done. I definitely never said that Mary was being honorable for not squealing on Edith. Edith wrote the letter with the intention that other people find out about it and that's when the whispers started. Evelyn Napier found out about it and he found out that Edith was the author of the letter yet he wasn't the recipient. I also disagree that just because Edith didn't tattle to them directly that this somehow means she didn't really want them to find out what Mary had done. Edith thought of Mary as a slut and wanted other people to think this way about her too. I totally disagree that she wrote to the man thinking that the rumor wouldn't be spread. Edith isn't an idiot. She knew full well what she was doing, what the consequences would be, and she didn't care because she wanted to hurt her sister. I completely disagree that Mary sabotaging Edith's one proposal made them at all even. What Edith did was try to wreck *all* future proposals for Mary, not counting the residual damage that would end up reflecting on the family as a whole. This is another area where we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think that Edith was commenting simply out of surprise. It is typical of her to get in a dig at her sister in this sense and she has a history of commenting in a negative way on Mary's love life. She did it with the Duke, Evelyn, Matthew, and Richard so I don't know why it would be different with Gillingham. I personally thought the only reason she mentioned it was to prick at Mary. We can come up with a list of Edith being snarky with Mary and it isn't all just in season 1. Edith was nasty about Sir Richard before she'd even met him yet this is often overlooked when people talk about Mary criticizing Gregson. It also seems to be overlooked that Gregson was trying a little too hard and I can understand why that was met with suspicion by Mary who'd only just been involved with a social climbing newspaperman. She did it in typical Mary fashion but I didn't think her wary attitude towards Gregson was purely about getting in digs at her sister. When Mary and Sybil tried to comfort her after her aborted wedding to Anthony, she rejected them. I'm not saying that she was wrong to do this, people feel the way that they feel, but it seems to me that Edith is given a pass on things like this whereas Mary would likely have been read the riot act for going off on sisters who were attempting to comfort her after something so emotionally devastating. I also feel like there's this idea that because Mary had over a year's worth of happiness with Matthew that she no longer has the right to complain or that she's won in life in general and I disagree. I don't understand why honesty of this kind is acceptable from Edith but not from Mary. If Mary had lied to Edith and pretended that they'd get along better just to create some falsely positive moment, I don't see how that's a good thing. I thought Mary's compromise made sense in the moment and I also felt that Edith understood her answer. Edith was asking a question. She wasn't saying to Mary "Hey, I want us to get along better. I want us to be better sisters. I'm willing to try if you are." Edith asked a question and Mary answered her honestly. When Edith had the chance to wish Mary well on what might have been one of the happiest days in her life, Edith couldn't bring herself to grow up and let go of the snarkiness. In many ways I actually think that Mary and Edith are a lot alike. I feel that I am too. Obviously we have very different interpretations of what we've seen.