Avaleigh

Re: Tywin being this unstoppable bad ass---I feel like the show has demonstrated that Tywin has made some mistakes and that he's far from being perfect in his his role of being the strategic patriarch. I'm not talking about mistakes in terms of morals or anything like that. I'm talking purely in terms of what's best for House Lannister as far as the Game. To me, a glaring example of when I was questioning Tywin's decision making came when he was having that conversation where he was trying to intimidate Joffrey. Joffrey is being an asshole as usual in this scene, but even a broken clock is right twice a day and I thought it was interesting that in this conversation it's Joffrey of all people who thinks that maybe they need to take the issue of Dany having dragons seriously. Joffrey at least considers the possibility that the dragons could one day be a threat while Tywin is basically shrugging his shoulders while he tells Joffrey that the last dragon that was born had a head the size of an apple. When Tywin next has a scene where he's addressing the subject of Dany's dragons, there is little sense of this being top priority even though they know she has three dragons and a decent sized army. I'm not saying he should be full on panicking but the almost casual manner in which he deals with stuff like this doesn't exactly come across as badass to me. I'm also thinking about the way he hasn't done anything about the Iron Bank sitaution apart from talking about it with Cersei and basically brushing it under the rug with Olenna. (Was Olenna not essentially saying that House Tyrell would assist with the debt to the IB? If so, handle it! If not, at least you'll know you have to go digging elsewhere. ) Another thing of course is show Tywin's decision to not deal with the cash flow situation now that they no longer have any working mines. Furthermore, why was he constantly lending someone like Robert money for years if he knew they were running low on funds? Another thing is his refusal to school Cersei and teach her anything useful when it comes to ruling. Of his three children she's the only one who has expressed interest in wanting to live by his philosophy and be a kind of confidante but he rejects most attempt on her part to carve out a role for herself where she isn't simply used as a way of making a marital alliance. I get that he might have formed the opinion that his daughter is unintelligent but IMO that's even more of a reason to attempt to teach her something useful when it comes to ruling just in case something happens to him. All in all I feel like Tywin has kind of ignored or ineffectively dealt with some major situations (forgot to mention turning a blind eye to the incest for some 20+years) so I don't feel like the show or books have presented him in a way as a badass who can do no wrong in , terms of playing the game and being the head of his house.

Re: the idea that Maester Aemon might have been talking about Olenna Tyrell--- The only reason this doesn't work for me (apart from their book ages) is that this would mean smart Olenna chose Mace's idiot father over nice guy Targ when the Targs were still in power and I can't really imagine why she'd do that.

While I can see a woman like Brienne having sympathy for Arya's wish to go to Braavos I wonder if she'd feel like she'd fulfilled her vow to Catelyn that way by letting her go? Didn't Brienne say that if she'd been in the position of one of the Stark girls that she'd have gone to the Wall? Then again I guess she's probably going to give Arya that wolf bun that Hot Pie made and that to me suggests a mostly friendly encounter.

Arya is going to think Brienne is working for the Lannisters. The Unsullied are going to be pissed.

Now that Aegon has been put on the table, I'd prefer to know whether he's the real deal or not. I don't need the characters at large to know the truth necessarily, but I would like to know because I think it would be lame to spend time setting up this huge game changing character, knowing people would question what sort of twist this might be only to never clarify as though the truth in the story doesn't matter. As far as next week's episode I'm surprisingly looking forward to Bran's story in particular. Is it foolish of me to be hopeful for a flashback or was the one in episode two our limit for the season?

I have to admit too that as much as I enjoyed this episode, I'd be lying if I didn't also admit that my favorite part of tonight's viewing experience was the preview for next week's episode. I definitely prefer the Battle of the Blackwater episode overall if we're comparing, but I thought the actual fighting in the Battle for Castle Black was better. For me the non battle scenes in Blackwater were a lot stronger than the non battle scenes in tonight's episode, and I think that's a part of the difference. I wonder who Maester Aemon once loved? Not that I expect to find out but I wish he'd at least said which house or kingdom she was from. ETA I also think there was more humor in Blackwater and that always helps. Blackwater had "fuck the king", drunk!Cersei, Stannis barely blinking over the wildfire (I still get a kick out of his reaction to one of his men explaining why attacking after the wildfire display probably wouldn't be a good idea and that hundreds would die. ), Tyrion's "Let's go kill them" line, etc.

I thought it was great. Shocked that we lost both Grenn and Pyp. Loved Alliser's fighting and had my hands over my mouth in worry as he was battling Tormund. I almost didn't know who to root for in that one on one so I was kind of glad to see Alliser survive and loved Tormund being the last man standing later on. I wanted to scream when they didn't use an archer to take out that giant who was trying to breach the gate. Actually, there were a few times when I was wondering why they weren't making better use of their archers when it came to large targets like the giants and mammoths. No Mance? Did I miss him?

I agree that Littlefinger wouldn't have been so bold about the incest in front of Cersei, nor do I think he would have thrown Lysa out of the moon door without a plan. The way he's sitting there thinking he's about to be toast when they ask to speak to the witness and he's all 'uh, yeah, let me go get her' so that he can make sure they're on the same page and I'm thinking, wait, why didn't you two have a conversation straight away to determine what story the two of you would be telling? Book Littlefinger is smooth and has more finesse in general than show Littlefinger. I actually preferred the change to "your sister" because I couldn't recall her being referred to as Cat on the show by anyone. I feel like there's a big chance that the" controversial" thing coming up with Sansa in TWoW is sexual and I think Littlefinger has to be a candidatecconsidering how we last saw the two of them together.

I'd forgotten about those scenes with Arya. Now that you've reminded me I remember her making him actually lol when when she said. "Most girls are idiots. I can't imagine that young Cersei and Arya were all that similar apart from them both being mischievous and frustrated with gender expectations, but I still appreciated the line about how she reminds him of his daughter. I remembered Tywin clapping during the skit but didn't realize he was smiling too. Odd choice to make. It's funny how much humor there can be in a character like Tywin particularly if he's putting somebody in their place so to speak, and I feel like the show captures this in a way that's even more effective than the books. Moments like when he tells Cersei "You're still here." His I Am Not Amused expression when Olenna asks him if he's ever been with a man. Walking right up to Joffrey while Joffrey is seated on the throne so that little asshole ends up shrinking back in fear. Turning puffed up Mace into an errand boy, etc. I don't think Varys can stay in KL. Cersei can't have anyone competent on the small council and I like the idea of he and Tyrion making the first leg of his journey together. If they did choose to keep Varys in KL I suppose he could have scenes with Ellaria, Kevan, and maybe Margaery. I can't really think of any others.

I have a feeling that I might end up being pleasantly surprised since my expectations aren't all that high. My expectations were probably wildly high for the PW and the BoB and both of those episodes, though they are among my favorites in the entire series (BoB probably is my favorite in fact), I had some things that I really wanted to see that didn't make it. With the battle at the Wall, there isn't any one thing that I'm especially excited to see so I don't anticipate much, if any disappointment. Boredom maybe but not disappointment. I'd forgotten that Thorne was a Targaryen loyalist. I imagine his head would just about explode if he ended up learning that Jon is in fact a son of Rhaegar's.

Wait, what? Is she talking about the filming of the riot scene where she's nearly gang raped? I guess my mind is officially blown for the day. How does that make any sense? A beautiful ballet? What is wrong with people?

The show doesn't much get into Tywin's issues with smiles and laughter, so I don't even know if the smiling corpse would have the same effect on the Unsullied but I'd still like to see it all the same. There are two times on the show where we've seen Tywin smile or be amused by something. Once was when he was schooling Joffrey about why the council meetings are being held in the Tower of the Hand and we see him smirking as he's leaving. The other is when he briefly chuckles during Joffrey's wedding as he wonders about what it is that has his daughter in a good mood, probably knowing that whatever it is that is causing this momentary bit of happiness is likely due to the misfortune of another. This kind of reminds me of a moment where Tywin almost smiles in one of Tyrion's chapters and Tyrion is all unnerved by it. There are a couple of lines where he tells Tyrion that his jokes aren't appreciated but I can't think of much else that gives people an idea about how much he dislikes laughter. Now that I think about it though, he did get pretty pissed when Tyrion made the audience at the trial laugh. Hmm, maybe they have done a better job of establishing how he feels about humor in general than I originally gave them credit for. Eta: If Shae is looking at Tyrion there she looks pretty damned relaxed like she isn't staring at a man she just fucked over who also happens to be carrying a crossbow.

Sorry, I meant why bother with Shireen as the sacrifice since that would just anger Stannis if she has a body full of king's blood right in front of her?

I'd actually be pleased to get a short scene between Shae and Tywin before Tywin goes to the privy just to give us an idea of the dynamic between the two of them. Imagine the audience hearing her call him her giant lion or something along those lines? Also, this is jumping ahead a bit, but I'm curious to know if they're going to keep that smiling corpse. Something about that little detail is so hysterical yet so disturbing that I feel like something must be wrong with me that I find it to be so amusing. I think Jaime even thinks to himself that Tywin looks like a man at his bedding.(I might not be remembering it correctly but if Jaime did think that it's kind of an interesting comment given what we now know happened at Tywin and Joanna's bedding and that he certainly wouldn't have been smiling. ) I wonder what Tywin would have been angriest about apart from the murder? Being found by multiple people on the privy with shit still on his body, smiling like a fool on his funeral bier in front of the realm, or smelling awful enough to make some of the most important people in Westeros vomit all over themselves. I wonder if Varys is going to be completely MIA next season? He's an important character to get rid of for an entire season and he's barely been around this year. Eta: Benteen, it was a fascinating conversation and if it could take place on the show, I'd desperately want Tyrion to throw it in Tywin's face that the fault would still lie with the commander and that Tywin should have recognized that a soldier such as Clegane would need to be given explicit orders about keeping certain people alive during the sacking of a city. Tywin either didn't care or was stupid enough to think that a man like the Mountain wouldn't deal with Elia as harshly as possible unless instructed otherwise.

Okay, so I'm behind on the news and had no idea the entire episode would be at the Wall without even a break for Bran. The fact that even die hard fans are apprehensive about this decision tells me a lot. As far as the speculation that Alliser Thorne will die--isn't he the most likely person they'll end up sending to Hardhome? (Man, I thought it was a missed opportunity to not have one of Craster's wives double as the role of the woman who leads those wildlings to Hardhome.) Having Maester Aemon die at the Wall doesn't really work because why wouldn't Melisandre use his body?

I love James Purefoy but I don't think he looks like he could be the brother to Balon or the uncle of Theon and Yara. I think Allen Leech could be a good Aegon although I'm not sure if Downton Abbey will have finished its run by that point. Not sure how old the High Septon should be but Anatole Taubman could be good He played Remigius in Pillars of the Earth.

Lots I'd like to comment on and I'm glad I'm not the only one who would be perfectly willing to watch episode 10 before getting to 9. I'm kind of stunned that I'm not feeling all OMG excited about episode 9 this year but I'm not. My main worry about it is that they won't cut away to the south at all. I'd like to keep Genna Lannister but I won't be surprised if she's cut. I agree though that bringing her on for the funeral could be really good. She could certainly give Olenna Tyrell a run for her money in terms of being able to steal a scene. Re: Shae being a spy and the inconsistencies in her behaviour--- Couldn't some of it be explained by the idea that she didn't expect that she'd ever genuinely have feelings for him? As far as the suggestion of running away, I feel like this could support the spy theory as she'd have to go away forevever if she didn't want to have to deal with the consequences of Tywin's wrath after double crossing him. Re: Tywin's actual death- -- I too am hoping there is some discussion about his hypocrisy when it comes to Tyrion (really with all of his children IMO) and I'm especially curious to know if show Tywin will attempt to rationalize any of his behavior. One of the things I really love about the scene is that Tywin is completely calm the entire time and doesn't seem to think even for a moment that he's in any real danger. The surprise in his voice when he realizes Tyrion has shot him is such a terrific moment, I'm really looking forward to it. More than that though, I'm especially curious to see how they'll handle the "you're not my son" line and whether or not it will tie into the conversation they had in season 3 where Tyrion asks Tywin when has Tywin has ever had to make a sacrifice for the family. It was a significant conversation and I felt likeTywin was holding back in that moment. Re: Kevan not helping Cersei in a way that Tywin would have wanted- -- To me the obvious answers would have been to insist on help from the Tyrells/ Tarly by reminding them that it's for their own benefit and that not helping her is going to end up damaging their side long term. The Tyrells act like Cersei's problems aren't also their problems when all it's going to take is for Cersei to be nailed for incest and then there goes Mace's last chance to have a royal grandchild. I realize that the Tyrells can't make the High Septon drop the charges on either of the women. My thing is why don't they all seem more concerned about what they're going to do if Cersei is found guilty of incest? I feel like Mace seems to have forgotten what is keeping Tommen (and Margaery) on the throne. ETA I think we can have Tywin know he's going out in an undignified way without actually needing to see the shit.

I love the idea of finding a role for David Oakes but the only real options are Aegon and Quentyn and neither seems quite right to me. I think Francois Arnaud could be a decent Aegon. I also like the idea of the White Queen's Richard III actor for Quentyn. Eleanor Tomlinson could be good for Alys Karstark or even Val. I think Alfred Molina would make a great Doran. Jason Isaacs...I suppose he's too young to play Kevan Lannister? Love the suggestion of Kevin McKidd for Jon Connington. Emmanuelle Chriqui as Arianne. I know people thinksshe's too old but the character is supposed to be older than Margaery so IMO it shouldn't be that much of an issue. I think Rufus Sewell could be a good Euron.

Thinking about season 5 and the walk has me thinking about the character of Kevan and I'm really hoping they recast the guy who was around in the early seasons because with the absence of Tywin and Jaime after that, KL is going to need someone to fill that void it might as well be him. He could have the conversation with Jaime instead of Genna Lannister about loving Tywin and how Tyrion is a mini Tywin. There's also the moment where he refuses Cersei's offer of Hand, he tells her he knows about the incest, and tries to force her to go back to Casterly Rock. Plus he gets wine thrown in his face! He'd have scenes with Lancel, Margaery, Mace, the High Septon, etc. I think it's worth giving his character some decent screen time if his murder by Varys is to have any real meaning. Re: Kevan-- I think he has to be deluded if he thinks that Tywin would be at all understanding of his being complicit in having Cersei take the walk rather than trying to figure something else out. Kevan wanted his own revenge on Cersei and the only reason he didn't leave her completely hanging out to dry (re: helping secure Ser Robert) IMO is because it took minimal effort on his part and he was doubtful her plan would work anyway. He seems to blame her for Lancel's choices in life and seems far more upset with her than he is with his son who decided he wanted to be Jaime Lannister 2.0, Kingslayer and all.

Yeah, Robert Baratheon had sex with countless women, fathered sixteen bastards, was sexually abusive to Cersei to the point where he was embarrassed by his behavior yet Cersei is the one who is condemned for her sexuality when, apart from her forced union to Robert and her long term relationship with Jaime she has only had sex with three or four other men in her life. On the show it's just Jaime and Lancel so it's going to be even more difficult to throw around the accusation that she's supposedly been the queen of whores this whole time. I agree that there's already a rift between Jaime and Cersei but I think we still need to see Jaime being told the truth about her. I also think it would be good if the audience could be reminded that he's been completely loyal to her his entire life. I don't know if the rape scene ruined that or not but I think the fact that he's never been with another woman is an important part of understanding Jaime's character and the Jaime/Cersei relationship.

What I really hated about the walk was the audience paticipation. I've always disagreed with the idea that the crowd would be well behaved if Margaery were forced to do a walk as well. She wouldn't have had the shouts of "brotherfucker!" sure, but I'm pretty sure there would have been plenty of "Wanna suck on this, Your Grace?" The way people are allowed to participate in someone else's punishment and behave in ways that are just all around in bad taste was really disturbing. It's not just the misogyny either because I know I'd have been equally disturbed if Ned had been paraded naked through KL before his execution; same if Joffrey had punished Loras that way for being a so-called deviant. I'm really interested in seeing how they play the High Septon and whether or not he'll be written as the misogynistic, power-seeking bastard I think he is or if he'll be made into a more noble character. It's not just his treatment of Cersei but his comments about women, widows, and Margaery that makes me think he seems to have issues all around when it comes to women. Probably power as well.

I figured they'd either give her a bald wig or make her wear some head covering, or maybe even a very short and messy wig as though her hair has been hacked at with a knife sort of like what Yoren did to Arya. Re: Sansa being the younger, more beautiful queen, I agree that Sansa is the best bet with Dany coming in at a distant second. I was fond of the idea of it being Myrcella until her encounter with the Darkstar. I think that automatically took her out of the equation. That being said, since they're going full speed ahead with Maggy's prophecy, I'd like them to make it more of a mystery for the audience so that they think there are four or maybe even five candidates if we throw Melisandre into the discussion since some think she's ultimately responsible for Joffrey's death. Margaery--I think she's easily the least interesting choice. Only Arianne I think would be more disappointing to me.

Another small funny moment came from the Lady Declarant of the Vale. She said something to the room about Lysa always having been an "odd fish". Heh. I think it's odd they couldn't spare a single line this episode to indicate that Robin is disturbed about his mother's sudden and unexpected death. They were unnaturally close so it's odd that he's had virtually no reaction. He was more upset over Sansa telling him that he'd ruined her snow castle.

Hecate7, I hope you're right about us getting more info on how/why/when Shae ended up in Tywin's bed. Specifically, I'd like to know if/how long she's been a spy for Tywin and whether or not we get a sense of her being fearful of him or if she behaves in a confident way with him as she was with Tyrion. I wonder because I got the impression on the show that part of the reason she didn't care about being cautious about keeping their relationship a secret was because she knew there wasn't any huge risk to her safety with Tywin in her corner . I also got the impression that she seemed to be more cautious before Tywin came to the city and I'm guessing it's because she'd heard enough about Cersei to know that she's a lot more rash, less sensible, and less willing to be swayed by her personal charms than either her father or brother would be. Re: next season, assuming it happens then, I think I'm most nervous about how they'll portray the Walk. I don't mind at all saying that I hope it's toned down in terms of how much they'll choose to show her body. I'd rather them focus more on the difficult job the guards have because of the hostility of the crowds. It's really too bad that we won't be able to hear her thoughts but I think having a voiceover would be terrible to put it mildly. As long as they keep in the 'I am not afraid/You should be' exchange I think that's the main chilling line that's needed during the actual walk. Plus who if anyone could Cersei talk to when she compares herself to her grandfather's mistress and how she wants to act more proud and dignified than that woman did. Having her in jail beforehand unable to communicate with anyone they're going to have quite a job conveying her state of mind during all of this. I guess it could be Kevan but somehow that doesn't seem right.

Why is HBO so insistent upon each season starting in April? I'd personally be fine with waiting until June or even September if it meant we could get a 13 episode season. I still feel like seasons 1 and 2 were begging for about two extra episodes a piece especially season 1 IMO. It's like HBO became permanently nervous and cautious because of what happened with shows like Rome, Deadwood, and Carnivale. It's not like audiences won't return after a longer wait than usual and many HBO shows have had situations that for whatever reason make the season premiere start a few months later than usual. None of this excuses GRRM's super slow pace of course (or his outrageous idea that he thinks production should have to wait for him and should basically just distract themselves by shooting a prequel!) but I have often wondered why they're so insistent upon 10 episode seasons that start each April. I feel like they're boxing themselves in by being so rigid about not expanding if something needs to be expanded. They have the money, they have the viewers, they had material to work with (not so much now), yet nothing has changed since the first season and I'm not sure why.