Featherhat

The fact that they were all wearing very cheap uniforms this episode reminded me this must be the laxest fictional military academy in sci fi. They don't seem to have to attend classes if they don't want to, don't usually wear uniforms, are allowed to run around stealing ships and not getting on trouble at all. Oh, god the highly cringeworthy, awkward sex talk. Why? Does anyone actually speak like that after sex? If you want to ask if the other person felt an emotional connection there are about 5000 other ways to say it. This is like a first time writer was trying to write a role play for teens to do in sex ed about the feelings sex might bring up. Again, Atria didn't previously seem so socially awkward about non clone humans. That whole storyline was chemistry free and obnoxious anyway. Jax continues to bitch, whine and scream her way through the episodes in situations where she knows nothing with no nuance at all. It's episod 4 and I'm sick of her parents' death already. Space zombies, how original.

True, and I think he's way over playing the "it's nothing like any of the fan theories" BS but I do think he thinks the show has a happy ending, in general and if they don't get EBR back then (hopefully) he said Felicity stepping through that portal showed they'd find each other again. Now that might change but it's what he thought as of the ComicCon/TCAs. Rob Thomas (and KB) had previously been on record as not liking that storyline very much and preferring Veronica as the hard boiled PI in a noir setting. Not saying this show won't pull something stupid off and try to call it "clever" or courageous" like a reset to pre Gambit or some other 180 turn but as @lemotomato said I spent a lot of the final stretch of last season convinced Felicity was going to die saving everyone from Archer in the FFs.

I don't think it's false advertising exactly. Many former regulars and guest stars are coming back, just not all of them. With ones like EBR we know they are trying/have tried to get her back and if she doesn't then it's her decision, as said in interviews. Her contract ended and they can't force her to come back for 2 eps or 2 scenes. Hopefully she will though and they might not announce it, especially if it's a cameo in the finale. And it does sound like they aren't abandoning mentioning Olicity and Oliver's family. Like @Mellowyellow I'm hoping they manage to keep the ending of 7x22 intact for Olicity because I don't think any reset will make things better. With CH well he had his issues and Roy didn't end up being particularly important last year anyway, possibly because of his availability then. I wish Oliver and Thea could have another goodbye, especially with what was hinted at in the FFs but it doesn't seem likely. I wasn't a fan of the 100th for a number of reasons, mostly because it was a "love letter" to a show they never actually wrote, though I didn't mind Ray and Sara in it, it sucked that Diggle and especially Felicity got 5 mins screentime. The 150th I really enjoyed the documentary, it should have stayed with it instead of turning into an standard episode with a lot of noobs. I am interested in 801 but I'm keeping my expectations low to hopefully be pleasantly surprised.

Eh, I think that's been a lot of in even on the Flash. It's got better recently but I remember talking about it a lot during S3 when the whole plot was save Iris from Savitar but sidelined her and didn't give her an actual POV, nothing to do with MG who doesn't seem to care either way about them. She was both Barry's goal but could have been played by a cut out some of the time. Season 5 has had some of the same problems where it's Barry and Nora and then Iris. And much as I have *many* issues with him as a writer I'm not blaming just him for problems with WA during the crossovers. Maybe they are just giant, outright racists. I wasn't a fan of this Lois for a number of reasons but I thought it was more of "hey we got permission to use Superman in the crossovers! Let's bring Lois!" And will only continue to do the same thing in COIE. Because as much as people talk about other pairings being iconic (and they are) Lois Lane/Superman are head and shoulders above in terms of knowledge for "people who don't watch Arrowverse" buzz. Felicity also suffered in comparison to Lois and Lois/Clark scenes and her husband had just got out of prison and now switched realities with his "little brother". Iris didn't have a lot with Barry in COEX because they were a happy couple and they didn't want to bring in Evil Nazi Barry, which would have given them both more scenes but I really did like her storyline with Felicity.

Oh I know, I went off on a big imagining there. 😉 I'm just really curious about why the hell it's a scene that has a lot of logistics to pull off before they can film it. Actors? GCI? Look of SA? Locations? It probably won't end up being anything like the things we're imagining. For a moment I was also wondering if after Batman-ing it for 7.5 years they were going to try and do something Inception style. 🤣 Complete their Nolan "homage".

Even if the Paradise Dimension or similar is wrong, where the heck did Felicity go then? SA has also said if they can't get EBR back at least 7x22 means "they're out there together somewhere" so...... He has flat out lied before or claimed theories were "totally wrong" and it turns out they were 90% right. At SDCC he also said it's not necessarily a dead or alive choice, which leads to a pocket paradise dimension theory. Unless the Monitor portal is the express way to an actual afterlife. I could theoretically see a reset as the last scene unfortunately. If it was from right before he was taken by the monitor I think that's fine but erasing getting on the Gambit would suck. So everything we've been watching about this character for the last 12-13 years (including flashbacks) wouldn't have happened and he'd be a douche probably letting himself get pushed into moving in with Laurel and continually cheating on her - except wait- he "remembers" how to be a decent person without trauma now. Nope. Not to mention it would screw up Sara's backstory and the Flash as well. I suspect there will be an Endgame style funeral with everyone there, cos duh.

I was going with neither. We know they want Felicity back for some scenes but the way MG and SA were talking about it, it didn't seem like they needed her for that and it didn't come across to be as a big JL or "all the dead people Oliver loved" scene either. Which is why I'm so curious that they couldn't just shoot it tomorrow if they hypothetically had to. I was going with "it's a bit weird and "high concept" or "one last gotcha" or something, but now...shrug.

I miss Delicity scenes, we seem to be getting a good Oliver/Diggle send off but sob, nothing of Diggle supporting Felicity and Mia. Hopefully that will come up in the season somehow, though Mia didn't know who Connor really was in 2040. The OTA billboard reminded me how much some fans resent the fact that OTA became a thing. Like "my OTA is Oliver, Laurel and Roy" (Never happened as a three) or My OTA is Oliver, Laurel and Dig.....(theoretically could happen a bit this season with BS) You can like whoever you want but it's pretty specific who it refers to and fans who raise money are entitled to put whoever they want on the billboard, or have Lord Mesa do it. The only part of the stupid civil war stuff I liked was that they didn't actually have Diggle or Felicity go on the other side to Oliver to "even it up" in terms of OTA vs NTA. And there were quite a few good OTA scenes before Diggle lost his mind over being GA again. Of course that was guaranteed to make the whole thing easy to root for but would have made more sense if they wanted viewers to be conflicted as well. Then again they apparently thought NTA had a leg to stand on, which I'll never understand. Whining Toddlers.

Every time they talk about the final scene and how it's unexpected or something they have to work up to I get nervous, like what they heck did MG come up with during his morning meditation? Do they need a lot of actors back or something? A lot of CGI?

Well it's the final season, got to give him a send off with a fake award. KM also won for Shadowhunters which is not surprising it had it's final episodes and has a motivated voting fanbase as well as the usual network buying stuff.

That doesn't look like the Lian Yu location but it's possible they were there in the photos of KC directing. I could see both al Guhl sisters coming back, there a lot of possibility there, though I don't really need a scene of Oliver asking Nyssa to take care of them when he dies or anything. Felicity is perfectly capable of contacting Nyssa and asking for toddler self defence lessons. I wouldn't mind Nyssa in the FFs though.

She may or may not be Sue but I guess she's the mentee reporter we were discussing before.

I don't think it would be such a bad thing at all if they had some sort of on screen dynamic that isn't Iris crushing on him whilst he hides behind Felicity (S1 crossover) but for whatever reason it's not deemed important. There could have been a lot more in Elseworlds but the Big Thing they wanted in that was Barry/Oliver and "Oliver is so dark he has to promise to sacrifice himself to save white hats Barry and Kara." Which Iris (and everyone else) did contribute to. Sigh. They could certainly find reasons if they wanted her to crossover more, I completely agree but again it wasn't deemed a priority partly because she's neither a costumed hero or scientist and in S1 not in the know. And I also thought it was part of the "WestAllen is gold standard/meant to be lets not bother to write for them, just put them in the valuables cabinet so we can look and talk about them" schtick they had/have going.

I certainly wouldn't mind if we had got more of what Iris and Oliver think of each other beyond him being Iris's celebrity crush and her saying he's oh so infectiously dark and her being Barry's LI/crush that Oliver once told Barry to forget about because "guy's like us don't get the girl" What heroes/main characters, Oliver? 🙄 I guess it just wasn't important to them beyond what they already had. It took them long enough to write any Iris/Felicity interaction beyond saying hello, and that's only because they needed another bridesmaid at the wedding. I did enjoy their storyline saving Star Labs/Kara together before the double wedding stuff. Gun bump! Sigh. People commented that the wedding in the park looked like a poly commitment ceremony presided over by their friend and I think they'd have been okay with that. 😉 I think Iris's lack of being in many of the crossovers is part of it, probably because she isn't costumed or do tech support (previously) and is put on the shelf just labelled "Barry's perfect LI" so not used for crossovers. Oliver has had WOC love Interests and "associated" with others in various longterm capacities. I guess one of the reasons might be they didn't want to have people think he's in the slightest bit interested in Barry's girlfriend/wife, hence both he and Barry freaking out about Oliver being in bed with Iris in different ways. Though it's not like he's ever had much one on one interaction with Caitlin either. I think the writers are strictly Oliver/Barry for The Flash in most crossovers. Why would you want your favourite character to be pining over something that happened 5 years ago that's never going to happen again? Fair enough if pining is part of the story but at this point it's definitely not and would make the character look a bit pathetic, especially when she's mourned a husband and dated other people seriously during that time.

This show continues to be terrible, in fact I think it's getting worse. If you told me it was written and filmed for Nickelodeon and then a few "sexy" scenes were added after it was picked up by the CW I would believe you. Jax continues to be the worst. Loudly yelling about whatever's going on without knowing any of the questions, let alone the answers. Any time someone does something she doesn't like she gets in their faces and screams. Why is this study group continually doing illegal/deadly things extremely openly and with no subtlety and they haven't been questioned yet, let alone expelled or put on trial? I guess Xander and the Uncle and Dean are protecting them due to "Pandora" and the wormhole that they've forgotten about. What was up with Atria this episode? She normally has more social awareness than to stand around prattling on her own sex life when she's just interrupted her friend Sex Timing his girlfriend. Poor Greg, the best actor in the "young" cast, sigh. He's not really dead right, we didn't see a body. But that was a very sudden intense and quickly ended romance.

This show is awful! So I did watch the 2nd episode and they steal a spaceship *again* and do something high profile and murderous and it's all forgotten about? An agricultural society can manufacture clones and everyone's tip toeing around them because they're so important. If they can make clones why can't they make loyal guards to protect the facility. Jax is terrible. She hears about a shitty preacher on campus from one of her new friends and 2 seconds later she is screaming in his face about it despite again having 0.5% of a clue about the situation?? She's not much of a subtle destruction of humanity plot device is she? "Shoe string budget" looks like it would be a step up for this show. It makes the Arrowverse look like it has MCU money. The acting is still terrible and the scripts feel like even the writers couldn't be bothered with the most basic of dialogue and copy pasted it from Obvious Writing 101. I'm definitely watching episode 3.

Are there even any guest stars they could have promoted for the present? Unless CD or JS were going to be available to be alt!Tommy or Chase and travel around with Oliver and Dig. Dinah and Rene presiding over SC going to crap doesn't really need any more regulars that would be introduced just for 10 episodes and it's the storyline that everyone's least excited about. @Primal Slayer is probably right that very little is being filmed with it.

Wow I was in the mood for some tropey, cheesy space sci fi and that was definitely it but I'm not sure I'll bother with the next episodes. There's a lot of bad acting going around and the lead? They've fallen into the trap of being a bitchy idiot = strong female character. Seriously running around with 0.5% knowledge of anything but loudly talking about secret things and running into danger because she can't let it go. And oh look, another humanity destroying plot device who looks like a teenage girl. There's an insta group of friends but oohhh someone's betraying them. I bet he'll be going against his Dad in a few eps. Her Uncle was the best thing in it. Who am I kidding, I'll probably watch to the end of the season.

If it had been an actual kiss between them and not an imposter I could see people wondering if it would be brought up. Didn't the crossover have a thing where Oliver found out Barry and Felicity kissed or am I misremembering? Like it wouldn't be a homewrecker storyline but a "whoa" moment. Maybe? That's incredibly wishful thinking if anyone wanted it to lead to anything more. If it even had been real. That said there are eleventy billion things from early seasons I think are much more important to go back to which will never happen either.

Guess we unofficially knew that from the complete lack of CH/Roy on the scripts or SDCC etc. With the kids taking over the FF storyline as baby heroes there probably wasn't much of a place for him unless they wanted to show him with Dinah and Rene and the decline of SC in the present. I didn't think they ever had any intention of delving deeply into what happened to Roy to end up on Lian Yu with his "yeah not telling" thing, like Malcolm brushed off getting stabbed through the heart (pre LP). Seems like he might come back though and 1-2 eps would probably be the best amount anyway. I'm annoyed that they messed up a good, purposeful ending for both Thea and Roy for a part that didn't really *have* to be Roy, pleased as I am for CH that he had a year's more regular work.

They had that cute "we made a person!" thing but that was about it. Yeah that would have been a great time for an intimate discussion about having kids and how strange but awesome it was to see their grown up daughter. Sigh, Nora could have been a really great character. Hopefully JPK can come back as different!Nora or Dawn at some point because she was the best thing about it. I still think it's strange that we never saw their first time together, which is usually a milestone that TV shows want to show, even if it's just "fade to black". Though it's still better than how "Bones" handled it. Barry's relationships to everyone are usually the strongest, especially Joe and Wells in S1 and then Iris. Barry and Caitlin stopped having a person connection after S1 so I never seriously thought they were interested in Snowbarry or gave much of a damn about Caitlin apart from KF being "badass" which is why they don't realise how awful it makes Caitlin. Which obviously it does. If this is for DP then wow. And again, actually exploring that would mean meaty scenes for her and more screentime and they could connect it more to Barry (which they don't). I wouldn't mind if Ronnie came back but I don't think RA is interested in anything longterm on the show. In terms of "colluding" with the showrunner to become leading lady? I'm sure she wanted to be LL but there were a lot of things they could have done to make her important to Barry (without being LI) but they didn't do that either. Even having them bond in S2 after Ronnie saving the city or bond over KF and Savitar teaming up or making her the Chloe to Iris's Lana Lang any of those could have then lead to "well we had to explore their connection...." Nada. There's no material for shippers to make fanvids. There's more of Iris with Oliver and Caitlin/KF with Mick Rory than Barry and Caitlin.

I guess it's possible but that's a bit Machiavellian for him. He need not have gone in to detail that they were going to be talking to her if that was the case. All they need say is that she's decided to do other things with a clean break and we love her and wish her well, we'll have a great end run for the show without Felicity. I think if there was a bad reason she's so unlikely to come back everyone would be phrasing it a different way or just shutting the hope down ala 5A.. SA doesn't seem to think it's very likely but it's still open. DR, not known for subtlety said there were talks going on as he understood it. It could just be that she's emotionally done with the show and ready for the next thing like she said in her post 7x22 interview, Felicity got as good an ending as possible on this show (assuming they don't eff it up post COIE) and they clearly have plans to have them find each other somewhere as SA keeps saying. Again assuming no one has a "brilliant idea" post COIE.

When we first heard about the storyline I assumed there would be a GA/BC relationship somewhere to throw a bone to KC and some fans but after SA talked about not playing alternate versions of themselves I dismissed it, now we know his comment got lost in translation so I expect something along those lines again. I'm not looking forward to it mostly because of the continuing anti chemistry (why I'm against BS joining Oliver and Diggle) and because of the reaction of some fans. They really devalued what being BC means. Of course that started with Laurel's S3 Insta!Canary where after a couple of weeks with Nyssa and some boxing lessons Laurel was a full fledged vigilante. It was obvious they were done putting any effort in after Sara with lead directly to the Canary Network and how BS can call herself BC after a half assed redemption arc. That's why I thought it was significant that Mia got her own codename and even a little bit of explanation behind it, even if the reasoning was very teenage angsty. FF kids on the Island potentially? Not surprised given how it's important to all of them in some way and they want to tell an origin story with them. It's where William ended up finding Roy for some reason. And where his biological mother died if we're ever going to have Samantha mentioned again.

That's the vibe I'm getting from everyone, including her so I'm not expecting it but we'll see. I am still interested in S8, although I might end up rolling my eyes at a lot of the gimmicks and "closure" that happens. I do hope WH comes back for a scene or two with Oliver, I hated the vague implications that something bad had happened in the future, it just seems pointless now that CH isn't even coming back either. Looking forward to CB as JJ and *hopefully* the kids forming a team will be good and not just an excuse for them to fail and yell at each other. Some hopefully awesome Oliver/Diggle team up and not forgetting about Felicity and hopefully keeping the "going to find him" ending intact even if EBR doesn't want to come back.

I expect there will be a lot of waffling on these points going forward. I think it was that COIE would affect Arrow quite a lot because they could go for broke with killing characters and maybe bringing in different versions of characters to "keep around in the verse after we turn the lights off" or possibly changing the past/future. That's the COIE affecting it and the last two eps will focus on the exclusively Arrow aftermath and tying up loose ends of the show. Like e.g. A consequence might be that the future has changed from the 2040 we know and the characters deal with that, or our Diggle now has the mantle of John Stewart or E1 Laurel is alive again or even Oliver in the pocket dimension or something. But there's no actual crossover.