Featherhat

I have obviously been expecting things to change after COIE since they teased it but I hope they don't alter the history of the show(s) too drastically. It would be irritating to have the last 7 seasons as we know them meaning nothing to how the characters actually end up. If a character gets wiped out of ever having existed or reappears having died years earlier but we only see the end not the journey. Especially if EBR and other actors aren't coming back. It's frustrating enough when it's happened on LOT and they have the show continuing and the actors around to explore that. Plus, I know it's going to change but The Monitor taking Felicity should definitely have been post Crisis logically. Unless they explain that away in a way that still gives them an ok ending even if EBR is not back for it. And with the spin off they aren't going to have it so William and Mia have a happy childhood and Oliver gets the recognition he deserves etc.

It could be both timelines but wouldn't that get boring? Especially as people complained about both the FBs and the FFs as breaking up the story. It's difficult to maintain. One group somehow finds it's way to the other because potentially bringing all of FTA to the present is less likely than just Mia. Unless she's trapped and they're looking for her or a portal takes her to 2020 whilst she's with them and that's why JDJ isn't completely sure he's in if the spin off goes to series? The Canaries start in the present immediately post COIE and go to the future because reasons? There's going to be (annoying) shenanigans whatever happens but they probably would have done that post COIE anyway. I can't get the pic to open but I wouldn't expect them to be in old makeup whatever timeline they're in.

Hah, yeah. The last info we had about it was MG saying he was still trying to get her back a few days ago. Which could hint that he's hopeful about the probability or trying to not get blamed when it doesn't happen depending on your POV. Since it starts shooting in a week we might have some info in the next couple of weeks about rumours she was on set or call sheet, unless it's a secret/closed set.

Could be some sort of reset. KM, JDJ and KC have all said variations on "I don't really know what's going on and everything could change with it". So either they've been given the same party line or they really know very little, which is strange. With Future Team Arrow at least being in the backdoor pilot they at least survive COIE and it would seem more likely to be set in the future or a merged timeline. A merged or reset one would give them a chance to re set things they didn't like or weren't working. It's also possible that Arrow 8x6 will do this. A couple of the cast have talked about different types of story telling, which was also mentioned for 8x6. They can't even answer straight if it will be predominantly female, presumably because of the FTA involvement. But they might not have locked the boys down into contracts yet. Only problem with a re set is I will need to know specifically Felicity didn't get wiped out and Mia become an anomaly protected from disappearing by shenanigans.

Yup, that's pretty much it. I don't get the idea that she was killed for Olicity, they had no problem writing them with her alive and well, but when they broke up? Oh yeah gotta kill Laurel to make sure Olicity succeeds. Ssssuuuurrrreeee. As you said, her only storyline in her "best" season is to resurrect the sister this show killed for her sake for a whole other show, be Quentin's daughter and die. And stand around in the Canary suit, which is the most important part.

Great to see Tatsu and China White. I thought CW had died, guess not. She looked and sounded fabulous. Rila F is really great in the role and works really well with SA. Love that she questioned Oliver's mission with the Monitor. SA's voice breaking when they talked was amazing. I liked that it was E1 and Oliver actually got to reconnect with "his" version of someone he cares about this time. And she's probably joining Team Prevent Crisis. I love Oliver and Diggle constantly in sync but it just makes me sad it took the end of the show to make it happen, and of course that it's not part of OTA. I did like the moment of Oliver putting his ring back on and flashbacking on Felicity, IIRC that was a moment SA talked about as unscripted but something he and AN put in at SDCC. I felt like the actual "get a scientist for the sake of the multiverse" plot was paper thin (Hi Alpha and Omega virus again) but the whole point of these episodes is a farewell tour of people and places so it doesn't matter in the end. I guess they skipped the S2 tribute because there's no way they could do it without Sara, Slade and Felicity. Laurel and Lyla's story was unexpected and I thought worked well. I was frustrated that we were back in "blame Oliver" mode at the beginning but losing a whole world, even one you didn't give much of a shit about when it was there (see working with Zoom etc) is pretty damn huge. Sara is not a naughty word Arrow, you can use it, LOT is not on a rival network. KC is much better at playing this Laurel I just end up rolling my eyes a lot still and finding it difficult to connect with her. So the "god" Lyla made a deal with was the Monitor and she's been playing the COIE game the whole time. I do think it will be interesting that The FFs are ok, quite brief this time and if not for the spin off and potential for meeting the present characters I would wonder why they'd bother with them. I like the team together in the little moments though. Wah, wah, wah JJ cry me a river. Very Kylo Ren there with a lot of Andy "always be unrepentant" Diggle. Poor John and Lyla. They wouldn't kill off William before we even get many William/Mia scenes would they?

I don't think he was dead, there was a news report that he'd been unmasked as GA and no information after that IIRC. We could fanwank that Zoom killed him perhaps.

Hasn't she deleted parts of her social media before? It could mean something about Arrow and whether or not she's returning but it could also be one or more of 1000 other reasons. I could see her deciding she's had enough with fans and unfans tagging her in stuff or asking if she's coming back all the time when she's trying to move on but doesn't have to be that. Either way we should have a more concrete idea if she's back for the finale in the next few weeks. I'm voting no right now, but we'll see.

I'm in.

Mary is my favourite character by far. Nicole Kang is definitely MVP for being able to pull off ditzy "influencer" and caring Robin Hood doctor without being false or awkward was great. I really hope she finds out soon. I like her dynamic with Kate more than the obvious push pull between Kate and Beth-Alice. Still not entirely enjoying Ruby Rose in the role, although she is getting more settled in it. It just feels like there's something missing from her performance. Kate announcing "Tommy Elliot" in that tone reminded me of Oliver announcing "Tommy Merlyn" in same tone in the Arrow pilot so we'd know who he was despite it being awkward for Oliver to say his best friend's name that way. Gabriel Mann was pleasingly crazy in the role when he was talking about being upset Batman had saved his mother's life. It's just weird to hear Rachel Maddow's voice in this. Especially when I try to picture the character as someone who slept with Oliver. Not really feeling DS in the role either though he's not terrible, which is unfortunate as I need to feel his connection to Kate and reluctantly to Alice but it falls kind of flat. As for Sophie. I liked her dynamic with Mary this episode. But.....I really wish they were doing something different with the character. It's a lot of baggage for her to lug around when the show is also introducing cute, quirky love interests for Kate who don't have a husband and drama. I don't think the storyline is biphobic at the moment so much that it's almost all focused on Kate and people who are on Kate's side. The unfortunate thing is we also often don't get much in the way of LI POV on important subjects just the main character's. So right now we have married Sophie lying to her husband and still pining without seeing what's in her head, which isn't a good look either. We don't know if Sophie is bi or lesbian if Kate was the only time she felt attraction to a girl etc. And we will need that. I liked Reagan, she seems like a fun relationship for a while and they have chemistry but I think unless network suits started writing notes right away (which I don't think they did) then she's already gone by the crossover.

I think it's many KC fans hoping that this was finally her moment for lead of a show after what happened with Arrow and KC pushing hard for that. And the people who want a BOP show not "an Olicity kid fic show" and those who don't like anything to do with the FFs. It's not wrong to be sceptical of unconfirmed pap reports before we've even seen the backdoor pilot, promos/marketing, let alone an episode of the actual show, but these two have a reason for being so insistent on it at the moment. There's been no real push back yet from others with info to say that's not true and it's a big ensemble show. That might change between now and when the currently called "GA and The Canaries" actually airs though.

Makes sense to go back to Purgatory then. I can see him giving up but remembering what Felicity said....and ok probably Diggle, Roy and the rest of the team too. Always nice to see BM again, I can never get over how different he looks without the Yao Fei get up. I really do wonder if they're going to keep together/reunite Thea and Roy considering the FFs left it vague but completely dead sounding and it's pre COIE with them unless they are in 9 or 10. CanadaGraphs especially threw a massive fit when he heard rumours about the double wedding before they shot it, went into melt down but confirmed it and turned up to get footage of it. None of it stops them having some bad info passed to them but they aren't fans writing hopeful or bitter speculation like us. Nothing stops KC and JH having big storylines. So many characters got great when they went to LOT and that didn't require an eponymous show character. It means a writing team who cares about the characters and knows them, Time will tell on this spin off. Kat's tweet makes no mention of her co stars and she's not #canaries either. 😉 Love to know if the drama has already started. "Futuristic buildings" doesn't have to mean 2041 but it does make it seem more likely, or could be a merged world.

I'm still surprised that "Kat's show" thing sparked so much back and forward though. I guess it's a new version of Olicity vs Laurel but I can't believe it generated so much controversy that WH's mother felt the need to get in on the act when her daughter's coming back for her farewell bow. They can change out all the characters in it as long as no one is specifically named like they thought about doing with Emiko and didn't. However I guess people think of the canaries as more changeable than a GA. And that is probably just the working title anyway. Episode 7 is "Purgatory" so as well as featuring Lian Yu, lots of angst I would guess. I think Roy is also supposed to be in it. Glad Oliver and Tatsu have a talk, I do like her and she would be able to completely understand what Oliver's going through.

Ugh, don't remind me of the Potentials in S7. It shows how much they screwed up the concept of BC when there are so many that you aren't even clarifying or arguing between "Canary" "Woman in Black" or "Black Canary" any more, but by number and there's still Sara out there using White Canary (sometimes). The potential title for the new show is even multiple canaries, couldn't even get just the one for a GA/BC show.

It could be more like Charmed or LOT I suppose, but it makes sense that Mia would be the character the show is built around more than the other two who are older, just looking at the demos the CW targets. It doesn't mean the other two wouldn't have a big role or decent storylines. As for KC accepting a supporting role? It keeps her in work and she's clearly hoping that they turn the show into a BOP show as per the interview posted above. She's hung on to the Arrowverse more than any other cast member of Arrow and she'll probably still be there one way or another when everyone else has turned the lights off.

The house "Came through the portal with them" so it's "part of them" somewhere outside of reality or Neverland? It's just an excuse to have one familiar set I guess. Speaking of, I really don't like the random Seattle Safe Space. It feels just stupid, not quirky enough to be interesting or a feature. This show isn't quirky enough for that either. It seems like an excuse to have them meet random normal people who are recurring with no further explanation needed.

I hope she's just trying not to spoil the non KM and JH people already cast but it does seem like she's going out of her way not to acknowledge her co-stars there. She does have a history of liking things that are down right inflammatory to some of her co-stars that big her up, so I am side eying it. This isn't the Canaries spin off she pitched, that much seems clear, she seems to be hoping they'll go back to that but I don't think that one would have had Kat M anywhere near it, it would be a Laurel show. But KM really hits the CW sweet spot, right down to being a former lead on a Freeform show. I don't blame her for liking the tweets that celebrate her or KM for going full in on the FTA and "Olicity Baby/Olicity Baby's First Crossover" etc stuff but it will be interesting to see how it pans out. Hilarious to contrast KC liking tweets that say Mia should have been Laurel and Oliver's baby. I just want her far away from LOT mostly, especially since I'm already frustrated at many of the spoilers.

Could be. I said in the character thread it could be that lots of different bits had some truth to them but she emphasised different parts depending on who she was talking to or who her priniciple scene partner was that season. In S5 it was all about Oliver's reaction, in season 6, Quentin was the one paired with her all the time. They're all excuses though, one doesn't *gleefully* murder people over a dead dad or dead boyfriend. Like Chase was always a potential psychotic serial killer, Oliver just gave him the excuse he needed. She's not alone, a lot of the metahumans affected by the Star Labs particle accelerator seem to have gone "fuck it" and gleefully become villains. Meta wise. Personally I think they cut out all mentions of E2 Oliver and Laurel because they don't want to emphasise Lauriver in this final stretch without Felicity and will Oliver and BS teaming up, which is what would have happened see: 100th ep. Otherwise it would have made sense in a season 1 tribute. Not sure where a Laurel/Tommy scene would have fitted in with that. I am more surprised at the complete lack of Robert Queen mention, whether they wanted to follow Flash canon on the subject or not. Considering he's always been a huge part of Oliver's journey, it seemed glaring.

None of them seem to have much info, which is strange considering they'd have to have been pitched the show by the producers. I wonder if JDJ actually knows I think it's possible that happens to Laurel but they've been on and off about "who am I again?" since early S7 I think it's partly because of the lazy take over of E1's life and KC's determination for her original storyline. It's also possible this also happens to Mia in some form because even if it's set in the future I think the current 2040 is going to go very wonky, though I hope she remembers her parents especially if they haven't got EBR back and she's spending a lot of the crossover with Oliver before his sacrifice.

The new direction is different to last season and in some ways that's a good thing, less hamfisted issue of the week and ill fitting love interests but in others it feels just a generic supernatural show now, nothing that ties it to Charmed, either the original or it's own take on the mythos. I wish they'd either started the show with the premise that they were the "Only you can save witchkind" ones or saved it for at least S3 so we got to know more about the world before it burned down. It's not the only show to completely retool in it's 2nd season but if I didn't already have an interest in the sister bond and Harry I'm not sure I would have bothered beyond 10 minutes of the premiere. Not a fan of the new LIs at the moment, for all 2 minutes we've had of them but I guess we'll see. I like Harry and Macy, certainly better than Galvin but I foresee a lot of angst ahead.

I was kind of thinking that after the Monitor's voice over. It's not that different from alternate dimension or paradise dimension (could indeed be one of those things just a little more celestial) and would also fit with the Monitor's "you can never come back.." speech to Felicity. Could be that we won't find that out until the series finale though and COIE ends ala Endgame with ep 9 the Oliver-less clean up/back door pilot.

I did think about William when reading that interview because there's zero hint he's meeting Oliver in COIE or the spin off yet but I remembered BL apparently filming later on in the season. I know Arrow likes it's "twists" but making a character a regular for 3-4 eps seems overkill. I'd say it's more likely Zoe, though not 100%. Or if it is William maybe it gets "reset".

It has been both rumoured and denied that Star Girl was moving to the CW. It would have had to be cut down to the usual 40 minutes for broadcast. https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/10/stargirl-moving-to-cw.html This does seem to highlight the on going problems with DC Universe streaming though.

Yeah I agree. That was one of those times, sadly prevalent in this 'verse where the writers need to get from A-D and have one episode to do it so B and C make absolutely no sense and make the characters look beyond stupid and/or possibly evil. I'm neutral on Cecile, but I think they could have done a lot more/put her to better use than what we've been given especially when they made her a regular.

Thanks for that in depth analysis. I think all her backstory could potentially be true but she puts more emphasis on different parts depending on who she's talking to. The writers need her to connect to Oliver, she went evil when Oliver died. She has Quentin as her primary scene partner for all of season 6 and Oliver doesn't acknowledge she exists? She has a sad story about a birthday cake. I don't think either are particularly good excuses for going evil or the things she has done. That was still a very half assed redemption. I prefer it when Sara is still struggling over what she's done. We saw the awful circumstances that lead up to that for both her and Oliver and neither ever make excuses about their actions. With the name Dinah I think it's a couple of connected things. They gave it to DD maybe thinking BS wouldn't be back long term so they needed a way for Tinah to be accepted as BC without any effort. Because apparently Sara Lance is so unacceptable as a name and they don't want two characters with the same name. Then the fact that the writers and KC seem to be treating her as a snarkier version of E1 Laurel who randomly has awesome fighting skills they don't even need to insta!Canary this time. You should not get confused if you are playing or writing an evil/antagonistic version of a dead character who has shown no signs (yet!) of coming back to life and yet there are quotes about this from both KC and the writers and crew. I think with the E2 situation in the ep, a) they don't really have any interest (before the spin off) in writing about her family situation, she's there to add dynamic to Oliver's big emotional journey with Moira and Tommy and they didn't want to get into the whole Lauriver thing again, especially now they're teaming up and Felicity isn't there. Like they had Chase say "Pretty Bird" instead of Oliver even doing it sarcastically. I assume Siren's backstory will change again if the spin off gets picked up and they need to focus on the predominantly female team and how she interacts with Mia and Dinah.