Featherhat

Just a quick one before I go to work: Guys. You have time travelling friends who meet relatives, past and future selves and mess around with the timeline every week. They are semi professional at what you are going through! You generally all ride in their time ship once a year! CALL THEM or at least mention trying to call them but getting Gideon's message service to ask WTF? Sara's your oldest friend and fake sister! Why call Curtis about this? I mean for EK that he got a reunion and everything but still.

Maybe just the way they go about storylines sometimes? Like plot over character and ignoring other pertinent bits? We'll see I guess.

They really should call the Legends, this shit happens to them literally every week. I mean I know they won't but Oliver should at least try to contact Sara. I get that it's emotional and shocking but after the first freakout, time travel isn't a sci fi concept to them. Aww, it's all so emotional. I can see Mia shutting down after this because of all that's happened, maybe that's the reason Siren gets through to her. Diggle's reaction was amusing. William trying to figure things out like a mini Felicity. I had completely forgotten about Curtis being in this ep and I really don't care at all. I'm keeping my hopes up for enjoying a solid hour of all interactions and I hope the cliff hanger doesn't spoil it after last week's was everything awesome.

Well I can see why the question was asked. Logically Iris is the daughter he raised from birth and Barry is his ward from 11, if push comes to shove.... However the show has almost no Joe/Iris scenes and a huge amount of Barry/Joe scenes. Joe even mentioned at the wedding rehearsal party that he raised them both and they both called him "Dad", the one time not to mention it. Joe does love Barry as if he was his own flesh and blood and it's great that he does and the show is making points about what constitutes family it's just a shame Joe/Iris scenes are scarce. It was also frustrating that whilst Wally was on he seemed more interested in him as well. And Iris's POV in the storyline was quickly done away with. I can see why they said it and I don't think it's disrespectful, although I haven't seen the context of the original post. Of course Henry was Barry's father and thankfully they had the best relationship they could whilst he was still in prison for 15+ years. But he was robbed of so much of being a father. He wasn't able to be there practically and if not for Barry's own stubbornness Barry would have changed his name and left him to rot in prison an innocent man. Joe became his father practically and in many ways emotionally and Henry deserved better than to miss those years and then get murdered soon after though the only one at fault here is Thawne. And Zoom. Barry is lucky to have both.

Yeah that's what I meant. And different reviewers choose to highlight different things they enjoyed. I can see him wrapping scenes with Team Arrow fairly quickly as it's not likely he's in present Star City for long (or at all?). Whatever happens isn't "Oliver's alive lets have him go out with "and the team continues on saving the city..."

Well given that the series regulars are Diggle, Dinah, Rene, the future kids and BS I can see him not needing too much time to wrap things with most of them. And the kids might well be back in the future, leading to some sort of quick check in if anything. Felicity is back and possibly Thea so I could see more scenes with them, that's if they're both more than cameos and then further important guest stars. We also don't know what state or state of being Oliver is in or where he is post Crisis. Also possible SA is filming all his last scenes in a few days block and he's packed in a lot into one day. I know it's frustrating but since I don't think they're going back to the future right away there is plenty of time for that. Even hopefully in this episode, and one persons "great scene" can be another persons "that was it? No big deal." that's also happened many times on scenes I was looking forward to. I do believe there will be Oliver/Mia scenes coming, and we know she officially become GA so there's going to be passing the mantle emotional stuff.

Me too. Assuming we have the trio in the present until at least 806 and possibly until COIE depending on what the cliffhangers are etc I think Oliver and Mia will certainly have time for some big angsty, loving father/daughter time. We know they have scenes together in COIE and it's probable she's much, much more prominent there than William, if he's in it at all. This is the Fathers and Sons ep like last week was parallel Queen Siblings. I am glad BL and SA have some great scenes though.

Spin off set up, though that might not have been planned at the time of filming this. I guess if it's heavily father/son they need to have Mia with a female "aunt" character in Felicity's absence.

I'm glad Quentin is back for a couple of episodes I miss him., All the other parents were and he put in the most with the team, even if his story mostly revolved around coping with his daughters dying and coming back to life. I don't really need him to get full time resurrected, though I suppose it's possible with everything. I feel like no one should expect the showrunner to confirm a happy ending for their couple with 7 episodes and a "death" still to go. What do you think they're going to say? Even though it's likely to be some form of a happy ending. Even if it's more bittersweet like the other angle of 7x22.

Well that feels like someone knows the fandom is most likely not going to be happy. Saying he wasn't happy with it first but was once he'd really, really thought about it is not the most ringing of endorsements. I like an episode of anything that you find more to enjoy and appreciate over multiple viewings or having discussed it, but most TV watchers aren't like that they aren't going to "give it time", so even if you really think it's going to be a slow burn many people will have already said "shitty ending" without ruminating further, even a lot of big fans.

So glad that they never went with another love triangle once they'd settled on Olicity, even though both had stalls in S5. Oliver already had a very gross one between two sisters and then between the girl he cheated on with her sister and his best friend. Yeah. Season one was not a soap opera at all, obviously. I don't think I could have watched a Felicity/Oliver/Laurel triangle. Although I remember quotes from KC thinking she was in one. I would have liked the HIMYM finale if it had been maybe 5 years earlier but it made no sense with where the story was then. Just using it as an example of a widely hated finale that the writers thought was a perfect ending. But to get back to Arrow, I made my peace with Paradise Dimension, which means a 20 year separation and grimdark future but was comforting when we didn't know if EBR was ever coming back or not. And makes sense with an option C still. Now I have my hopes up for more (one last rip off of TDK trilogy maybe? Not waiting 20 years?) or God forbid actually openly retiring after being resurrected somehow. Though that's a long shot for me. Still trying to work out if the "Oliver becomes the Monitor" supposed spoiler thing makes any sense (I mean it won't make all the sense considering 7x22 evidently) and if Oliver technically "dies" because of that but manages to ditch it or something. Or goes on a cosmic road trip with Felicity. They are most definitely going to have the Endgame funeral though and some sort of sacrifice moment for the "For Oliver" calls that were filmed. All true. It's just the Van paps have been responding to the SM tagging gossip saying there was some drama over the direction of the show from all sides. Kat certainly seems very aware of her Olicity baby status and of course FTA's mini me version of OTA. I do want them to keep all of FTA in the picture, they work really well together even though the storyline has not been great. Plus it would be sad for William and Mia to be separated again.

I think the new Lois & Clark show is going to be the new Lois & Clark show. And I'm sad because that Lois has not impressed me yet. Maybe she doesn't think of the crossovers as a big deal in terms of exactly how many episodes she's in? Some actors really get excited for them, some are ok with them but then enjoy getting back to their regularly scheduled programming and others seem to appreciate the lighter month when they aren't featured much. It generally doesn't impact the rest of the season, although this year's definitely will and it's often a masked-palooza, and her character doesn't wear one. In general she seems they type of actor who cares more about the quality of the storyline for her character and isn't obsessed with word counts or screentime counts. And of course she's not going to start showing IF she's frustrated publicly, especially so early in the season. I just think Cisco and Kamilla are such a different couple, used for different purposes that it's useless to compare them, even though it would be excellent for WA to have some fun moments despite the sword of Damocles hanging over them. Fun and cute is all they have for Cisco/Kamilla because we've not really been given much reason to care about them beyond the fact that they're cute and make each other happy. Plus in a Cisco centric ep it's not surprising.

I think it seems most likely to be in the future from that, although probably a changed future. Especially if all or some of FTA are going to be in it full or recurring, even if they're in the present atm. I hope they're in 2040 and the team are all there (including Sara Diggle please) and it's not just to send Mia off on the next adventure ala LOT cameos. It does seem like they mashed together Team 2040 and the Canaries show mashed together, though if it's mostly in 2040 I'm not sure why KM was allegedly miffed, though I can see KC being so. Though shoving two canaries into the title does change the dynamic. I image the canary duo being catapulted forward or some weird merge. As for the beautiful ending for Arrow, that can mean a lot of things (HIMYM could be considered a beautiful ending by some for example) but I'm choosing to be positive and sunshiny about it. I think SA was probably excited by the reaction he knew was coming (and excited she was back in general) and it's good to announce it themselves for maximum impact rather than dribs and drabs of gossip. I'm very glad they did because I wasn't looking forward to a week of hoping for rumours and sightings or hoping they were keeping everything deliberately secret if we didn't hear anything.

Yeah, sometimes "sacrifice myself" is Oliver's plan A and the team has to talk is suborn, dumb ass out of it. I think they did go extra hard on Oliver in Elseworlds as "the dark, gritty, grumpy one" in order to have him offer himself instead of "pure white hats Barry and Kara" but that's something he does all the time on Arrow as well and they really didn't need to go so full on pretending Oliver hadn't changed in outlook and personality at all from S1. - Where his plan was to die fulfilling his promise to his dead father. The way it was written it came across as Oliver thinking he was less worthy of living and more expendable than true superheroes, Barry and Kara. Which is in character but still frustrating that all the other characters in that crossover would nod their heads and agree. However since it's his swan song, I really don't mind that he's getting a sympathy/acknowledged big damn hero edit. When Grant bows out Barry will without a doubt get a massive one as well.

Vacation is a good way to have the characters off screen if there's another character who needs to take centre stage for the week. And it might be meta that the actors get a vacation. I also wonder if they don't show anything because that would mean eating into the budget more for a tropical destination (or wherever) than dressing up existing sets for "different places" in CC. I still wish they had done a "Barry and Iris investigate a meta on honeymoon" episode. That would have been fun and different.

This was one episode I really enjoyed first time around and I like it again now. Yep Star City 2040-something is always a shithole. And previously 2042 Seattle. I remember some comment by MG that they were interested in a dystopian future as depicted in LOT for Arrow but dismissed it and sigh, they took it literally. I remember they wouldn't confirm exactly what happened to Felicity even post episode but it works quite well for current 2040 Felicity as well. I really like JDJ as Connor Hawke, both of them. It is weird that he's playing the same character with two different biological parents though. I do wonder what it would have been like if he'd joined LOT full time as was considered? I'm not sure he would have fit very well with S2. I'm glad the actor got more Arrowverse work again though. Connor doesn't feel worthy to be JJ Diggle and current JJ is throwing a temper tantrum because Connor was given more attention so he turned his back on being a Diggle. Right. The Daddy issues and guilt complex make him perfect to be Oliver Queen's success for GA though. Grant Wilson is about as intimidating as his brother on Arrow, which is to say not much. But crazy really does flow in the Wilson genes though. I love me some grumpy, given up, old man Oliver. Is there anyone who doubts that he would certainly mope in the lair for 20 years if things really did go this way? If he wasn't already "dead". The make up department always insists on doing many things with his facial hair to make SA look less attractive. I loved the Oliver and Sara reunion, I was really annoyed it didn't happen in S4 of Arrow or the pilot of LOT. Aww, tough times ahead for the Rogues. It's weird to see Mick Rory being so like his S1 self now after current "grumpy asshole big brother Mick". This is setting up Snart's hero arc and Mick's Chronos arc, both of which worked really well for me. Rip is not a good leader but I still love him. And want to smack him.

No, nope, naaahhh, not happening. Right? 😭 Why would they want to loose both Ray and Mick in the same season? (Not to mention Nora who has been quite well received). I mean if it's true it might be DP's choice not the producers but..... I could see S5 being the end of it all but why write out Ray in the middle of it if so? If it's just Mick leaving that leaves just Sara as an original and she's my favourite but I not sure I want to watch with the others and their relationships we have now, nu!Zari pending review. I would have thought Constantine would be leaving at the end of 5 after whatever goes down with Astra and if so that's a lot of shake up for an S6. I wouldn't mind Sara guesting on the GA/BC show assuming it does make it to air but when LOT ends I'd rather we have the promise of new time travel adventures ongoing just off screen personally.

Barry and Kara will go on to be the stars of the next crossover and the one after that. Except if Superman truly crashes the party and insists on being the loudest boy scout in the room. They could have kept this Crisis in their back pockets for next year after Arrow had finished, they chose not to and had it be the swan song for the character that started the whole 'verse off. They knew it was something fans had been clamouring for for years and decided to have Arrow go out big, fittingly for the start of this 7-8 potential show franchise. Like how Tony was the central character/it all started with him/Big Sacrifice of Endgame but others like Steve were more important as Captain of the Avengers. TBH I'd actually rather he didn't die/"die" in this grand cosmic way but they'd ended his story in a slightly rewritten version of S7. Barry's got his own "Barry Allen Must Die" thing going on, his story certainly isn't being ignored and I believe it will have a large part of Crisis but at the end of the day his isn't the show that's ending and if he dies or a version of him dies we know he's coming back for another couple of years and will therefore live to fight another day and have twins with Iris. There's no way that when it's his last crossover it won't be the All the Time Barry Allen Show. Although I know people would be annoyed that isn't COIE in a few years. I kind of agree with @Velocity23 I think they pull back with what Barry actually is allowed to do because they don't want to "taint" him, baring Savitar. COEX could have had a lot more Barry, or they could have had him kill Thawne at least since he was going to come back anyway, just like he came back even though the Spear/Black Flash wiped him out of reality. It's a shame because GG can certainly do the heavy lifting but when half the characters are pointing at one character all the time and going "he's not a hero, he's just a grumpy asshole killer" that's much easier to write as the emotional anchor of the crossover than a guy who everyone worships, who is in a stable relationship that got married after 1.5 seasons together and who never wavers about killing people. (In Crossovers).

Yay! I was being pessimistic in case it didn't happen to not get my hopes up or spend the next few months hoping she just hadn't been papped on set etc. But I'm obvious very glad she's coming back and glad they announced it. I was becoming more and more certain they had to if the future is changing (and if that sketchy rumour is at all true and Oliver becomes nu!monitor) because it would be difficult to keep that ending entirely intact, even though it served very well for 7x22. Of course those might not be the scenes she's coming back for but at least they have the chance if needed. It also would have felt quite hollow if Oliver is spending a lot of time thinking about her and going on with the promise of being reunited if we never saw it. And presumably she's also going to come up for the kids as well. I mean it doesn't guarantee a reunion between them or between her and the kids which is more up in the air, but it would seem like they want to, otherwise they wouldn't bothered. I'm assuming it's a similar scenario to be honest or at least I also hope that, even now she's definitely coming back. Maybe with a couple of added scenes or they would have used old footage spliced in to give roughly the same effect (if that's possible). MG was talking about his amazing finale scene at SDCC when they were also talking about hoping to have EBR back so I don't think where they or Oliver ends up will be different. And they have been 80-90% sure they could get her back all along. Anyway, we might end up getting a feeling for how much they shoot next week but that can also be really deceiving.

It's a practical solution if they think a Nora has to be conceived/born soon but it's not a storyline you ever see on TV for sympathetic main characters that doesn't involve the C words cancer and Chemo. It's portrayed as highly selfish for a woman to want to do that when her partner dies. If she suggested it I think Barry wouldn't go for it and I think in the writing it might come across as "Barry I just need your sperm not you". I wouldn't mind if they brought up "but what about our kid being conceived" but the writers seem to be ignoring it, probably because they know how the rest of the season goes even if the characters don't and it's not important to the story right now.

I still think "paradise dimesion" is an option C is if A and B are "alive" or "dead" but becoming "something else" is obviously on the table for Oliver. For any of the season 7 FFs I think there's going to be a lot of "Timey Wimey involved as I said, because that was definitely supposed to be post Crisis last year and wouldn't have Berlanti signed off on things like The Monitor, if not Felicity's exit itself? I think since it's probably going to change they will say Felicity's exit is still somehow intact IMHO or give it a twist using the footage they have. There's been a lot of focus on Felicity and Olicity for someone who's gone if there was no intention of giving them a "happy" ending somehow, even if EBR isn't coming back or hasn't filmed anything last year. As for EBR even if she is filming a cameo they might not spot her, no one got Willa on set for 803, people thought it was 4 and beyond and that was from a trailer door not call sheets or pics. I kind of think she won't but I hope to be pleasantly surprised. re AS. Well she does seem to be in the backdoor pilot from her own SM posts but gone until after COIE maybe? It doesn't seem like it was a fake out but I thought if ep 6 is actually a "Reset" then maybe she was around more. I'm curious to find out if the lady they were all photographed with is actually in the pilot as well.

They certainly *could* get rid of her, I don't think there are many sacred cows now. But this show has tended not to, unless it's a character like Eddie who was obviously a one and done or Draco who didn't want to commit etc. They like DP and they like writing for KF, there's no reason to loose her. The Supergirl quote can be read badly but I think it's mostly just thoughtless. I can see why she might want to go to a majority female cast show, though I don't think she'd want to be there full time. I can't think of a particular need for KF or Caitlin on either Supergirl or My Supercrazy Family as a regular, especially the latter. Though I suppose it's possible.

In the end I'm not sure anything is going to make actual sense, it's all going to be timey-wimey handwavium. The shows that want to reboot some storylines and characters will do so, those they don't will stay the same for reasons... Even if EBR doesn't film anything else, they might use her jump through the portal in a new context for a "happy" ending even if that timeline no longer exists. I'm still raising my eyebrows over Conor changing a lot though, especially if they don't go "home" between now and then. They have to be in a place where he and the rest can actually fight, right? They won't all be nu!Zari's? There's some random guy on twitter, (I know) I've seen posted in a few places, who claims to have worked on COIE and says among other things that Oliver becomes The Monitor during the crisis when Lyla kills the original. That would add up with it being option C rather than just A or B for Oliver but doesn't really fit with anything else we know. It would mean he could put his kids down in a better place though.

I wouldn't find the future changing as long as they find a way to keep EBR's exit intact if she isn't (or hasn't) filming for the finale. It doesn't make any sense if that isn't post COIE anyway. They could have kept it for 8x10 and worked it in if they knew they were changing things. OTOH I don't want too many drastic changes to these characters personalities post COIE or for the spin off, it's annoying enough that LOT is doing it. I want a Mia who remembers COIE (and the others if they're also there). I suspect there will be a lot of keeping some stuff secret or trying and failing to. William and Mia should have watched enough time travel shows and Oliver and the rest know the Legends who pay lip service to preserving the timeline. And get judgy about it in a couple of crossovers despite the hypocrisy. It also depends on if this is going to last the rest of the season or be "reset" in 806 and then they're (or at least Mia) around again for COIE. That doesn't seem worth it. They won't be able to hide who JJ is if he really is a Deathstroke in the present. The setting for the spin off is up in the air a lot more now they're all around, though I still lean towards more of a future than the present.

It would have been even more awkward if they hadn't even met him yet (funny how they did that storyline *right* before that happened, almost like they knew) but still AAF. And having to tell Rene JJ killed Zoe or decide to keep it a secret. I also think The Monitor thing will be cleared up, but it's actually good they're doing it, instead of Oliver blinding following and trusting that an incredibly shady character is doing what they said they are and has other's best interests at heart. I assume some of the future is definitely changing after or possibly even before COIE now. If they do change it I want them to have figured out a way to keep Felicity's ending intact if EBR isn't coming back.