7kstar

-- Samandriel ++ Gabriel ++ Gadreel 29 - Castiel 29- Gabriel 15- Gadreel 13 - Naomi 11 - Balthazar 09 - Samandriel 09 - Lucifer 03 - Zachariah 01 - Anna Milton Darn I need more votes, lol. Well finally able to vote again. Kids did their best performance at contest but now I'm sick again...darn it. Lots of changes since I voted last. I would have kept Zachariah over Samandriel because he is so delicious in being an evil angel...you just love to hate him and it was satisfying to see Dean finally give him his final curtain call. Molotov'd with Holy Oil Metatron Hannah Uriel Raphael Michael

Funny I kept thinking what if Dean decided the best way to deal with the Mark is to go to Purgatory....hmmm. I would love to see John, Gadreel, Benny or Gabriel. I also wish they had fleshed out Pastor Jim. So it will be interesting to see who the big bad is. Not the big bad of Season 7 please...never again I won't even mention their names.

++ Gabriel -- Hannah ++Gadreel 25 - Castiel 25 - Gabriel 23 - Gadreel 21 - Balthazar 21 - Naomi 17 - Zachariah 17 - Samandriel 17 - Lucifer 13 - Anna Milton 13 - Michael 09 - Raphael 05 - Uriel 03 - Hannah Smited Into Oblivion + Dispatched to the Outfield + Only their wings left behind Exploded into Feathery Ash Torched While Falling to Earth + + Molotov'd with Holy Oil Metatron

Yeah my timetable was off so I had misunderstood how they did the writing. The production time is a fast turn around...but they should be doing a bit better on the writing. See I can be a big girl and admit when I'm wrong! :)

I can relate. I see student's I taught and I'm like no way. Never will forget when I ran into an ex student camping and after he left, my friends asked is that an ex-boyfriend. NOOOOOOOOOO...ex student and he still too young for me to date. lol. It is funny seeing Jensen so young in wishbone. Now if I can just survive this weekend. Students seem to think they don't need to memorize their stinking lines and they did it great once so they'll be fine...but today stunk. Help...why did I become a teacher...I'm losing my mind. If you find my brain please return it. :) Glad your feeling better Dittydotdot

Guy responded to a tweet so this is the directing side. Another writer responded to my tweet and said unless there is an deadline issue the writer has more than 2 weeks. It also depends on the writer's speed of writing an ep. I just knew the 8 and 8 and thought the writers got the same time frame. So perhaps the writers are fair game after all. I can get some of it though, when I've written something and then a reader sees something I never even intended which causes issues I never thought would happen. So it's still on one hand it's difficult and on the other hand what were they thinking. My real frustration with season 4-9 is that I was so ready to see the brother's fighting together. Some of the really poor judgments were due to the writing creating the issues. I don't see Sam in the same light as Rue does as for me, it means that Sam has no free will. He could chose to walk away, but I believe he doesn't because he loves his brother enough to try, just as Dean did for him in the first few years when Sam thought he was losing his mind dealing with his powers. So I'll just agree to disagree and let it drop. I also know that sometimes you have to walk away, and make the person deal with their harsh life choices even when it hurts like crazy. Dean thought he would die...he didn't do anything to make himself turn into a demon and I think it is why he is now angry at Crowley among other things. So for me the real question is what are they planning and will I like it? But I'm really hoping that for once it is the 2 brothers equally fighting the good fight together. It's been too long since I've seen that. That was the show I fell in love with. I know Dean is a hero and I know that Sam can be brave. I want to see the brother's be hero's together and maybe for a short time is it too much to ask for a win????

@rue721 I can see some of you points although we really don't agree. Depression is nasty and Dean's coping skill for his depression has been to drink and ignore it. But I don't see him doing any of this to force Sam to be with him. Nor do I see Sam as a little kid being dragged along. Sam could have walked away from Demon Dean but he didn't. He could have walked away when Dean asked him to hunt with him in Season 9 before the Purge, but he didn't. Dean can't go to a doctor and explain why he is depressed and get drugs. By the way drugs don't always help, sometimes the reactions can be much worse and the person does kill themselves despite trying to do something healthy. That's real life. Most people don't make major changes from their normal patterns and reactions. It is a very few that actually have the ablitity to see what is going on and try to find changes. Dean has actually tried to follow Some of Sam's suggestions but it hasn't worked. Sam know's that if he doesn't help Dean, he will have another Demon or worse the Father of Murder on his hands. He's not stupid. So I don't see your point that evil Dean dragged Sam into all of this even if it wasn't intentional. Dean naturally shut down and didn't believe he had anywhere else to go. He was in the dark hole that people that think about suicide reach and it wasn't a trick...or someway to manipulate Sam...it was just Dean naturally giving up because he didn't think he had something to fight for anymore. He couldn't see a point of trying and in his mind he was saving Sam because his prior attempt to save Sam had really done so much worse. I can see your point that he would hate doing to Sam what was done to him...but again he didn't see it. I will end with this thought. I'm a teacher. A student's father killed himself just before Christmas. So many were furious at him for not thinking about his kids. The oldest girl found him and actually tried to stop him before he slammed the door in her face. But at that point all rational thought was gone. All he had was emotions and terrible feelings and he just wanted the pain to go away. In his mind he was saving them from him, because he was the worst Dad ever. Suicide happens because the person is stuck in a monologue. If you can get them into a dialogue you have a chance to get them help. But it isn't as cut and dried as they like to paint it. It is messy and painful. I also had a relative that I loved so much and I even understood his rational for not seeing me as he went through one of his most painful times in his life. But before he died I chose to ignore his request. I'm glad I did. I told him what I felt before he died and also said that love means you are there for the messy parts, the good and bad. Dean is like a wounded animal that is wandering off to lick his wounds before he dies. But he won't get a death and Sam now knows this. So yes, he has to suck it up and try to help his brother. But the motivation isn't anything other than love for me. He loves his brother and gets no matter how angry he is at his brother's actions and even that they will never see eye to eye on some things. he wants to stick with him. Otherwise, he could chose to walk away. That was Sam's earlier method, but he isn't walking away...he's dealing with the pain and trying to find a solution. I also know that we fans will never see everything eye to eye and will disagree. It is okay not to see it the same. I also agree that I wish the writing was stronger, but on the other hand I understand how difficult of a job it is to do. I teach theatre and try putting on a one act play in 8 days. That's a lot of lines to work up and put together. I try doing it in 2 months with middle school kids...talk about nightmares. :) They don't get a long time to write it either. They have 8 days to get the scripts done while the actors are bringing the scripts to life on the show they just wrote. It's hard to act/direct/ and write. Don't believe me, try it. Get some kids or adults together and see what issues pop up trying to create from scratch. I had an opportunity to talk with a Head Writer/Producer of another show. His comment really stuck with me and I think he's right on. Your lucky if during a season you have a few really great shows, a few good shows and then you have a lot of bombs. It is much easier to pick a show apart than it is to create it. Us picking the show apart for me is done with love. I love both Dean and Sam. Plus it is a great distraction from real life issues that I don't want to deal with or think about.

I can agree with this and it is the layers of the two leads that makes it watchable after many stupid issues created by bad writing. IMO. I can see the places that Sam tries and has understood his brother, but there are also places where even though Sam said the words, it didn't feel for me that he really meant it. I know there have been plenty of places that Sam's words of asking forgiveness was destroyed just a few moments later by his actions. Some places Dean didn't understand what Sam wanted or needed. Yes he still saw him of the baby brother that needed protecting and since that was his role in life far longer than Sam wanted him to be that, he kept doing it. Also just about every time he caves and does what Sam thinks is the right thing, it turns out the worst thing ever. Sam couldn't control Lucifer for instance and had Dean not shown up even though I think they were trying for this and kind of failed at it....Sam wouldn't have gotten control long enough to jump in the cage. Also sometimes Sam's reads are not correct. In families that fight this happens all the time. I can remember my mother telling me why I felt a certain way and she was so off course it was easier to just shut up and let her think she was right. Although on one hand I should relate to Sam more, I really relate to Dean more. I also see both brother's making mistakes. I also see Sam not hearing Dean but picking the point that for him made sense. I blame the writers for the Purge mess. It backfired because they didn't have a handle on the fans of Dean nor Jensen's acting range. Sam is in the Dark about so many things and because Sam's missing so much information, he doesn't have a clue how far off the rails Dean is. If Dean had let Sam die like he wanted...just what would have been the outcome? Charlie would be dead...Sam still doesn't know this. Cas would be dead, again Sam doesn't know this. Then Kevin dies at Dean's hand because he didn't let him in on the secret. I will say this was the one death I didn't even react too, because I no longer cared who died on this show. Sam could have walked away and I wouldn't have had a problem. He could have said I don't know if I can forgive you which is what I heard Dean do to Sam in Season 5. Sam stayed because he wanted to get a second chance and also because being on his own was way too dangerous. It was the reverse mode the show loves to do so much. Right now I agree Dean isn't reading Sam very well, he isn't even able to take care of himself. He's also doing something different from season 3. Instead of hiding, he is coming out in the open and just telling Sam what he is feeling. This is the difference and I think it scares Sam to death. This is also where the story is so compelling and complex. The two can't be really separate from each other because their actions and reactions are really effecting each other. Which is why I kept this all in this thread. I also think this is where my life story that is also complex influences my view on this. I see the points you make about Sam doing something positive, but in the next part I see where Sam goes and does something that totally negates it. I think Sam's "I lied," was his way of saying I get it a little better now. It's not so easy as I thought. I also still wonder how many stories like 'Bad Boys' does Sam have? In 'the End', Dean tells himself I know what you're doing to them. How can you do this? He is the only one that can read himself and can't believe that his older self would be willing to sacrifice everyone to achieve the goal. I'll end with I don't think either character will be allowed to do the right thing. Because it will never be over and just when they think they've got it solved another obstacle gets thrown into the mix to screw it all up again. Dean is hanging on by a thread, I doubt he's told Cas what Cain told him. It will be interesting to see how Sam can deal with the issues that Dean dealt with Sam all through the first 5 years. It is interesting for me because it is allowing Dean to grow and who else can Sam turn to understand what is going on. Interesting this time he is reaching out to an angel, the same issue he had with Dean he is now grasping at because the weight is too heavy to bear. I think this is what he is finally understanding. He didn't deal with the weight in the same way before, so I hope where they go next is interesting. So far this season I've liked Sam and Carver wrote this Sam. So I'm hoping that we'll finally get the brothers fighting together. Dean thought he could keep fighting until he couldn't but he didn't count on the obstacles that Cain threw at him. How can he tell Cas and Sam what he is really so scared to death about. How can he open up to them, when he's never really been able to before and now the mark is messing with his ability to think and feel. These questions make me excited and dreading what is coming. I don't know that we are really all that far off, but there are points we just disagree on, but that is what makes life interesting isn't it? JMV and hopefully it makes sense. Unless a new point is made I'll drop it because it will get redundant if I don't, right? :)

++ Gabriel ++ Balthazar -- Metatron 19 - Castiel 19 - Gabriel 17 - Zachariah 17 - Gadreel 17 - Balthazar 15 - Hannah 15 - Naomi 15 - Anna Milton 15 - Uriel 15 - Samandriel 15 - Raphael 13 - Michael 11 - Lucifer 05 - Metatron This list is much easier for me. I liked Anna at first but then they created a stupid mess so now I will let you decide. I have a smaller group to try to save but this next week may not have time to vote.

my weather is warm...our winter doesn't last long. We don't get snow and if we get ice it shuts the whole city down. Of course we don't have the equipment to deal with it. I don't know how to deal with long winter's...I just know how trying it can be to deal with long summers. It will start early and sometimes it feels as if it will last through Dec. Today would have been a nice day to be outdoors and yes you could drink a beer on the porch after 5:00pm...so just imagine that what's your doing. I like to write and read and watch lots of movies when I don't feel like doing stuff I should be. lol

1. Tom - Voyager 2. Don - Numb3rs 3. Iolaus - Hercules - live action in the 90's 4. Robin Hood - (Played by MP) The Adventures of Robin Hood - 90's 5. Maid Marian - Season 1 on the same show 6. Rick - Simon & Simon 7. Danny - The New Hawaii Five-0 8. Elliot - Leverage - Although I really like the entire cast and Mark Shepperd plays a great bad guy on the show 9. Ezra - The Magnificent Seven 10. Holmes & Watson on Elementary...you can't have one without the other. 11. Rick & Kate - Castle I will have to think if I have any females...this is terrible I should have some...

I think Dean was too messed up to read Sam. I think this is something that the audience wasn't suppose to get. Dean couldn't focus and although he was trying to act like nothing was wrong I think he could no longer care about Sammy's little feelings. He's drowning and when someone is drowning they can't save someone else no matter how much they want to. Speaking from personal experience. I lost a friend who was spiraling downward due to being bi-polar, she reached out to me and I missed it. I regret that and always will, but at the time I just couldn't help her, I wasn't handling things in my own life and was on overload at the time. This is how I see Dean's speech. He's desperate and clinging to the one thing that helped. The two of them fighting the good fight together. He still isn't thinking correctly, he's still very messed up and pretending with all he's worth he's okay. He can't hear Sam. And his speech shows that. I think Sam somehow get's it but not enough yet, but knows he will keep running into Dean so he sets the ground rules so that if they are going to work together they work. Sam's reactions would have been fine if Dean hadn't been so messed up, but Sam has never been really good at reading Dean...he always had Dean be strong and pretend to be find. Sam still falls into the pattern of little brother. He has to learn how to react differently to get to equal partners and doesn't realize it will be harder for the one that changed the diapers to forget that stuff. He just doesn't get it and I think on some degree it is okay. JMV Hopefully this is clear, I am a bit tired.

I can agree with a lot of your post and that TPTB handled this all poorly. I also agree with a lot of @Sue B's post. I think you have to remember some things that each character knew but the other didn't. Sam knew he was ready to die, but Dean only knew that Sam was willing to fight it together, to keep fighting together. He couldn't save Sam and he couldn't let him die. So he did the unthinkable and allowed an angel to heal Sam, but he tried to put on conditions. He even tried to tell Sam, hey you need to know what I've done but at this point it was really too late. Now fast forward to Kevin's death. It puts Dean in a tail spin and he believes he poison and the worst human in the entire world. He honestly doesn't understand Sam's last comment but Sam is too angry and let's his brother leave. Not blaming Sam for this part. Sam doesn't realize how far gone Dean is off the rails. He doesn't see what we see and Crowley takes advantage of a messed up Dean and gives him a powerful goal & drive. So he needs the mark to do it, fine he isn't going to live and he deserves every horrible thing that happens next. He isn't thinking about a future or Sam at all. But the mark isn't a simple issue. It starts messing with Dean and at first Dean isn't aware how it is doing something to him. Sam seeing Dean drink heavily isn't anything new. So for Sam, he isn't seeing anything to cause him to be concern. He tries to set the boundaries because he really would like to hunt alone, but if he's going to keep running into Dean, why not hunt together and set some rules so it is liveable for him. The Purge is where I get really furious with Sam and really don't give a fig about whether he has a point or not. He crosses a line that shouldn't have been crossed. He's no angel and has done some really bad stuff that Dean forgave him for and tried to work through it even when he didn't feel he knew who is brother was. But Sam is a bit slow to put the pieces together and I think he doesn't really get how big it is, even with the signs because he is so mad at Dean. He just doesn't think it will end like it does, but when Dean dies in his arms, he finally realizes what he is losing. Now is he over what Dean has done, no I don't think so, I just think he finally accepts that he and Dean will never see some things eye to eye, but his brother's heart is in the right place. This season, Sam has had his eyes opened and like Dean has had to do in the past, he is now spinning in how can he Save his brother, because like Dean, he can't kill him either. JMV and I can agree to disagree. I don't think I can feel sorry for Sam like TPTB wanted me to, and I think it really surprised them when the fans got so angry at Sam. again, IMO.

IA...I would love to sing with Jensen...but of course I couldn't audition to sing with Keith Urban cause I lost my voice...but I've been thinking I would like to see the 2J's before they left Supernatural...just not sure I can afford it or could get the time off. Darn reality! :(

On first watch, I liked it. It did surprise me. It had weak spots but I felt the tension in the 2nd half. Crowley worked but Mommy Dearest...please disappear. I don't know I kind of thought that Dean leaving to go sleep it off was a misdirect and wondered if Sam figured it out. Now if Dean didn't kill Cain and he shows back up again...I'd be cool with that. I really liked Cain. I also thought the fight with Dean and Cain worked in the sense that it was more emotional than physical. Dean really trying not to follow through and asking for another way. The beginning had some weak spots but I did like that Sam and Dean haven't been at each other's throats and working together. I will have to rewatch to see if I can figure out what they are up to with Cain. I'd rather they didn't go with the repeat of Dean has to kill his brother...but it didn't disappoint me like I was really afraid it would. Also it is about time Crowley had a taste of his own medicine. He always has a motive to try to get the upper hand but to have it turned on him so badly, in a sick way is warped fun. I'm glad at least Cas could try to fight a bit and not be just on the sidelines watching.

Sgricca has some really good directing in some other shows. I know I really liked him in a silly show called Hercules. So I think this can be a good thing. I just hope we can be as excited after it airs. Is it time yet?????

Ditty you got it back on track. + Ellen + Jo -- Ash 26 - Rufus 24 - Bobby 23 - Ellen 02 - Jo Salted and Burned: Samuel Christian Campbell Garth Gwen Campbell John Mary Ash I totally should have sung John and Mary...but then I didn't vote them off. lol Poor Ash, we enjoyed your smarts and the party in the back but sorry I love Jo more.

Ellen + Jo + Ash -- 26 - Ellen 25 - Rufus 23 - Bobby 12 - Jo 09 - Ash Salted and Burned: Samuel Christian Campbell Garth Gwen Campbell John Mary Sniff Sniff John and Mary...how we love you and sometimes hate you both for the way you messed up Dean and Sam. But you went out together so go be happy and drink some beers together. I really only know one to vote off and the rest I really want to keep...Rats this will get really tough won't it. :(

I can live with John and Mary going out together...I think they are very important and I like both...I just think some bad writing has really harmed John. I never thought he was such a bully because I don't believe that Dean would be so loyal to a bully if John never had a really good side. There had to be some really good moments that out weighed the bad for Dean to feel such torment. Otherwise he would have walked away from John. The show has given us it is Sam but that still doesn't work for me. So my handwave is there are some really special moments when he taught Dean how to shoot and hunt that Dean clings too and can overlook the other stuff as that's just Dad being drunk but he doesn't really mean it. JMV. Although Ash is fun, I think he should go out before Jo but I like all that is left...dang it. -- Ash ++ Jo ++ Ellen 25 - Ellen 23 - Rufus 23 - Bobby 15 - Ash 11 - Jo 09 - John 09 - Mary Salted and Burned: Samuel Christian Campbell Garth Gwen Campbell

Christian -- Mary ++ Jo ++ 21 - Ellen 19 - Bobby 19 - Rufus 19 - Jo 19 - Mary 17 - Ash 17 - John 09 - Gwen Campbell 09 - Garth 03 - Christian Campbell 01 - Samuel Couldn't come up with a clever name so let someone else have the pleasure of Killing off Samuel.

Well I erased it off the DVR, I needed space and I just didn't like enough to keep it. although most hate the last speech with Dean and Sam it wasn't awful for me. I think Dean's idea was sound. I need to be at peace and work to help people. I don't think he's against a cure if one can be found, but the waiting and hoping is driving him mad. I can get that. The food stuff.. my first thought, he's trying to eat everything he loves because when he really had the mark take over, he no longer cared about food. So I saw the food as comfort and Dean acting crazy when he's at a college makes sense to me in this way. He didn't go and many who don't get that degree feel like they don't belong and aren't smart enough. Dean's never acknowledged his smarts anyway. so this one is a mixed bag. some parts okay and some really not. I liked the opening...it was really strong. I guess my handwave was that Dean trying to cover up too hard and tried to find the little things he use to love. I agree it felt like fake it till you make it. Sam eye rolls were because his brother wasn't fooling him for one instant. At least my one constant is I like Sam this season. His hair...that's a whole different story. lol.

My question I'm starting to wonder...if Dean gets killed with the blade could that really kill him. So what will happen when the mark wants it's host to survive? You have two marks...one has had it a lot longer and has learned a lot more than Dean. Yes Cain asked Dean to kill him, but that was before he told them to leave and he killed a house full of demons without the blade. So that turned him really dark again and he doesn't have Collette to bring him back from the dark side. What would be cool if TFW is the turning factor...that Dean gets through to Cain. We've seen him do it his Dad, Bobby so can he do it with Cain? I'm also hoping for Sam and Cas to have a hand in doing something helpful and not just waiting on the sidelines hoping Dean makes it out alive. So on one hand I'm looking forward to this ep, and the other is dreading what stupid thing they think will work but haven't really thought out and causes a major fail.

ah poor Millie takes the first dive and loses the blade...you cracked me up with this...now how am I suppose to take this seriously when it airs? Well the last we saw Cain he was killing everyone without the blade, so I guess losing his bee home really pissed him off. So since he can't kill Crowley, Dean gets the blame. Now the real question, will Dean's mark be strong enough to stop Cain or is this the excuse to turn Dean into a Demon again????

++ Jo -- Garth -- Samuel 19 - Ellen 19 - Jo 17 - Bobby 17 - Rufus 17 - John 17 - Mary 17 - Ash 13 - Christian Campbell 13 - Gwen Campbell 11 - Garth 09 - Samuel I really thought I would like Samuel as the idea was sound, but what they did with it...well that's another story. However we are voting against the ones I love so much more so...why not lighten the load? I like Garth but not over the ones I like more. @Rue721, after reading your nasty story...I have to honor it by down voting him at least once. Luckily for me I won't focus on that again... :)

Let me guess and go out on a limb...Bad Boys will win. :)