Midnight Cheese

Oh no, really? I thought it was all natural for Angie baby. Drats, how disappointing. It's disappointing to know that the naturally freaking gorgeous Dickinson, who got hotter in her 40s and 50s than she was in her 20s by almost universal consensus, and was famed for her discretion and charm, got the standard-practice hair touchups during breaks for a TV show? It makes her lesser, not an icon? Hm. Not for Carson, Sinatra, Bacharach, DePalma. It's impossible for many reasons but I would love to see a Dickinson type on the OC: Tamra would be so bitter to have to be around a woman getting more confident and beautiful over time, especially if she were a true peer or older than Tamra. Like, an earthy-hot woman, or a different kind of holistic type - like Colleen Saidman Yee, a yogi with (wavy curly!) unfried blonde hair down her back and a hypnotically great body. I wonder if that sack of trash even knows that it's possible, that some women embrace feeling more settled, going after dreams, enjoying their sexuality - no, it's not possible for a vicious, embittered slag who thinks grasping a forever-gone 20something kind of beauty and screaming about her tits is the only way to get a man to look at or like her. Worse, Tamra is right in her case and her case only - she has nothing to offer anyone and probably never did. I think she was a nasty, manipulative bitch in her teens and don't buy even one fragment of her 'I was so depressed, I tried to hurt myself,' shit about her pain in her teens and 20s. Not buying it at all.

I totally missed Lizzie's TH where she articulated why she thinks square-forehead Tamrat is a sociopath. Dead-on. Well done, Lizzie! I also didn't focus on Vicki's dress at her Balinasiantonian dinner - oh, my. I only wish it were shorter and tighter. VICKI. GET A STYLIST. Damn.

Jackie sure thinks she's hot. Where can I order those mirrors? Or do you need some kind of psychological delusion to accompany the reflective surfaces? Lydia is very young-looking IMO for her age and having birthed a few babies. Great skin, hair, nice figure. Sadly, she's a boring and arrogant moron. Janet and Gina are a bit harsh to look at with the injections and war paint respectively, but they seem charming and intelligent. Andrea sucks and has a root-vegetable head. I don't know what that means, either. Chyka seems ok.

No one manipulated or edited Aviva shirking many of her duties as a paid Ho: going on those trips. Montana - asthma (....unless she was granted an additional season, depending on whether one believes Carole's claim). Saratoga - who knows. Berkshires - camp visit. Whatever, Aviva. When many of us are no-shows for our jobs, we get pink-slipped.

"Love my decisions as a woman." I love how any disagreement is disagreeing with Vicki's insanity as a woman. She has more imagined depths to her than she has hideous backless dresses, and she seems to own every backless dress ever made.

Dead-on, lisalionheart! I had the same read on Sonja from the beginning. She's a liar, she and Ramona manufactured the Harry proposal to propose to propse to propose etc. etc. bullshit, and tabloids are about the only things she reads, I'm certain. I would be stunned if she wasn't on Adderall. Lord knows actual exercise and management of her diet to stay thin is not something in her wheelhouse. She scrubs toilets with bikini bottoms and reaches glove-free into toilets to extract dropped phones, has 'interms' cover pee spots with pee pads, yet maintains her appearance with comped visits to dermatologists. Her vanity and arrogance in that one area is enormous, and what she spends time and whatever funds working on instead of any of her made-up businesses and deals.

'Nope'? Oh my. Every month isn't Movember for me so I've missed those mustachioed references that are everywhere and done in actual, clever ways according to higher authorities.

When will someone finally stop that dastardly Carole from practicing medicine without a license? If she's not stopped from 'diagnosing' now, next she'll be injecting Fix-A-Flat into less than perky butts across South Beach!

It's like 'bully' has absolutely no meaning.

I am more worried about how far Sonja's going to take her overly inflated lips from here on out: she's giving herself a duck bill. I didn't think she'd ever go full Priscilla Presley with her use of treatments - simply not done in the circles her ass has been booted from forever, not that she can acknowledge that - but she's well on her way.

Love you, motorcitymom1965...I'd just remove 'discreetly' in terms of blame-placing. Second bolded bit first: this kind of exaggeration insinuates, and not discreetly, that I advanced that kind of an argument. I didn't. First bit: in the relevant reunion thread, a poster who is very critical of Carole (**this is absolutely not you**) has asserted more than once that because Carole has not sued Aviva out of a presumed fear of the discovery process that there must be truth to Aviva's claim. That has been asserted, in fact, by more than one person on more than one thread. Please don't act as if you and I or I and anyone agreed on the correct metric to use to assess harm in discussing Carole's career -- I'm not shape-shifting my argument or opinion. If people are making passionate arguments in a public forum that failure to litigate is indicative of something like guilt, there is harm; public perception of course plays into sales. Of course there may be a counterbalance of people buying 'What Remains' and 'Widow's Guide' but we don't have numbers staking a plummet or spike in sales to look at. I'm talking about the presumption of shadiness and dishonesty that Aviva has now sought to put on Carole herself and over her entire career, that the IMO exaggerated idea that Carole was 'diagnosing' Aviva with something makes Carole as bad as Aviva because that's about life and not just work, and the fact that at least here, she's got at least one person proposing that Aviva's assertion itself is tantamount to proof without a lawsuit or vlog from Bill Whitworth or the like. I regard all of that as harmful, and as putting Carole up to the "automaton" standard that Mozelle referenced upthread.

Aviva started some (asking Carole to vet the ghost, then lying and acted like her lying, using self had a reason to be affronted), so there was some. Yes, I hate the impact on Carole -- however, even more than her 'white trash' fit last season, this has shown to at least some exactly what Aviva is, that despite her wealth and many degrees, she's a low-rent Hedy trying to force Carole into the Alison role in Single White Female.

Yes, Mozelle. To expect that the person victimized by a concerted campaign to ruin her career and cast all of it into doubt to not be negative in response is fucking unrreal. This angelic standard is a crock. To impose some mocking standard on the victim where she must turn her back on a show she went on for the money, like everyone else, and to advertise her work, but the aggressor isn't under any such standard, is a gross total joke. I think it's a hope of some that there are 'haters' - implying people, plural, and many of them - who believe Aviva. It's heartening to see that people like the NY Mag recapper, people like Juneau Gal -- IOW, people who actually know something about working constantly to write under deadline for editors, who aren't self-published and are in the industry, know that what Aviva's done is a serious, vicious thing to do, and to admit to being actual human beings who would remember the harm forever.

I thought Fade had the best look, and played with the patterns in a more successful way than Kini lined up the pinstripes -- he did much more with less, and created something beautiful. I also thought Sandhya was playing with a little Magritte or something - the mustaches and mustache cutouts seemed so witty, and I loved how much color she brought into things. I don't think it was anywhere near junior. Kini, Alexander, Samantha, Char, Emily and Amanda also put forward good attempts. Hernan's was awful, but I think there was an ESL issue: he did seem to have a problem putting in a full-back zipper with that material. I think Sean's was worse, both conceptually and arguably in terms of execution. Mitchell's also had no alibi: that mess was ugly. I agree with those upthread who think Sandhya genuinely and kindly tried to match designers with particular suits. For one of the first times ever on this show, I think she was trying to do right by everyone.

This part of the NY Mag recapper's summary of part 3 is great, I think: I think this is dead-on. I don't think Heather was pretending she was 'tough/hood/street' at all, and Aviva's hypocrisy is always a little surprising no matter how often we all talk about it. I also felt such disgust watching Aviva sneer at LuAnn about interrupting her. I tasted metal whenever Aviva would draw herself up and start with her patronizing coozery. She's the worst.

'Twas me! And now having viewed ep. 3, I do wish someone would slide that scrip over to Aviva's local Duane Reade. (I'm sure she's an Apthorp lady, no national chains for her). Man, Alex. I try, I try to be good, but I can't handle that woman. Please fix...your smug, clipped, ingratiating, cloying voice. I could enumerate other things that need...a fix, but I'll leave it there. Wait, no. It's precious to see someone roundly disrespected and disliked for her awkward climbing self by her then-castmates, Andy and many watchers, smirking about her thoughts about a show that didn't want her anymore. She's like the Lili Taylor character in 'Say Anything' singing 'Joe Lies.' I also wanted to post just to say: motherfucker. Motherfucker, motherfucker, motherfucker!!! Perfect summary. Who knew of the power of a lone motherfucker? (Except for the fuckee...) Yeah, actually Sonja “planning” to do something in advance is indeed “staging” it. There are dictionaries on-line, have your 'homeless girl in Ireland' check into that for you.And this: Sonja, if your parties (“sonja in the city”) are your business, then how is people seeing you throwing them not seeing your “private” (aka business) side? My head is spinning over that and her again claiming to have ‘deals’.I know it’s mean because Sonja is so delusional and she could lose her home, but I want her back to document the fall. I want to see that too. I'll bring nachos. I don't think Sonja's straight-up mentally ill-delusional, just a (motherfucking!) liar.

I don't get the incentive to lie when a text can prove otherwise. I don't think Lizzie is so far gone that she would seek out opportunities to look foolish in front of a vicious slag like Tamra. I don't think everyone operates even in this arena of cray with the level of vituperative cuntiness that Tamra displays. Obviously MMV.

I feel like this is some weird thing that Tamra made up in her head. Yup. Shades of Gretchen. No one should dare to come on this show and be younger, more vivacious and more attractive (YMMV) than that drowned-rat witch. I read both Tamra and Lizzie's blogs. I believe Lizzie. I think Heather is a good friend to Tamra, but I don't think she heard accurately - Lizzie specifically admits to being drunk the night of her birthday, about that 'not going well' or the like, and being sober the night of Heather's Valentine's Day party. (Heather is also IMO too strategically loyal to Tamra to be credible: asserting 'Tamra doesn't lie' at Lizzie's dinner was a crock. She has known Tamra to lie.) I really believe that Lizzie is a mess when she drinks too much, but that she was NOT drunk that night. I also believe that Teefs told Tamra in small, incidental ways that Lizzie was attractive before the night of Heather's dinner, and that Tamra has had Lizzie in her sights for a long time. http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-9/blogs/lizzie-rovsek/lizzie-tamra-has-it-out-for-me http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-9/blogs/tamra-barney/tamra-lizzie-is-the-worst-kind-of-p Vicki and Shannon's blogs. They are both over Tamra, and both have written this post-reunion. Long story short, I think there is MUCH more to support that Tamra lies constantly, and that Lizzie does not, but fucks up without that underlying malice. http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-9/blogs/vicki-gunvalson/vicki-im-tired-of-tamra-causing- http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-9/blogs/shannon-beador/shannon-theres-no-hope-tamra-and- In her prior blog, Tamra attacked Lizzie as a mom, and said that while family was everything to her, Tamra, it didn't seem to be so for Lizzie. I thought of that when I saw the finale preview, when Rapey Ryan is leaving to go upstate to mooch off of his maybe less than stable fiancee and her 3 daughters. The trashiest grandma the world will every know is again tearlessly crying, and I thought, really, twunt? You're doing this when he's 28? Did you fake a sob when you fucking sent him away when he was a little kid to please your brand-new husband? Mother of the fucking century.

ryebread, you are totally right about where we split - I don't see where Carole has done horrible things to Aviva. I interpret her as just really disliking her and being caught off-guard initially by the ghostwriter accusation. Aviva certainly hit Carole where she lived. I do agree with you though that Carole has said nasty things, but I don't think saying very sharp stuff in anger after being attacked is Carole doing horrible things to Aviva at all. (I was also struck by it being Carole to get and return Aviva's leg and I thought that was great of her. Even though the scene was a let down in some ways it's still surreal that Aviva actually did that to her very expensive prosthetic and then accused Holla! of wanting Aviva to crawl home.) About the accusation: in part 1 or 2, didn't Aviva say that the accusation she made was like asking about implants? "If you don't want to be asked about your boob job, don't ask a girl about hers." I think that is super telling. A career versus volunteer plastic surgery (let's take away reconstructions or things of that nature). **That's** where Aviva's mind was. I see Aviva as thinking that she is entitled to make any claim that occurs to her, when it occurs to her, regardless of the basis or the truth or the falseness or the damage. She doesn't ever have anything to lose, because she clearly does not live in a world where she is ever criticized. Her fucked-up daddy and husband don't seem like they say boo to her. That's such a damaged way to live.

How detrimental might it be? I'm genuinely asking. Just in terms of what I see (and sometimes the cheese stands alone), I see Aviva as having shown herself to be hysterical, dissembling and rage-filled when talking about herself/her alleged health conditions, and to eagerly escalate conflict to The Ramona Level (AKA throwing shit). What's the detriment if the people who are directly impacted by Aviva's heinous behavior say that in their experience and according to what they know, she's making shit up (e.g., Carole's claim to Buzzfeed that Reid told the producers that Queen Avevil would go to Montana if her place next season were guaranteed)? I don't think it is callous to say that none of the other Hos are responsible for whatever Aviva did - or didn't - deal with in childhood. They just aren't. They met her when she was 40. Why isn't Aviva responsible for being kinder to Carole, who was widowed and lost her closest friends within 3 weeks much more recently than Aviva may - or may not - have been mocked as weird?

I agree with PhilMarlowe2 upthread - I also think that Lizzie gets blackout drunk and genuinely doesn't remember what she's said. Not good, but it doesn't make me hate her. I don't think she's a bone-deep mean liar like Tamra. Lizzie seems to have brains enough to not make shit up when sober where Tamra could whip out her phone and contradict her with texts. Who is surprised that the two trashiest idiots on this show -- too busy to pee or get gas for their cars -- are the ones rampaging through a sacred space for other people? Anyone? HATE those fucked-face bitches. Hate them both so much. Love it!! I know some narcissists (I'm sure we all do), and that's truly how they talk/think. Oh Vicki. Never change. Right?! Seriously. A 52-year old woman with a history of cheating, two divorces, and a ton of unsolicited comments about other people's marriages, is now bumping snouts with a child-support-allergic motherfucker and cannot abide a negative word about her toofless beloved. To say boo about Crooks is to not love Miss Piggy or support her at all. She'll need that pillow in a variety of sizes to karate-chop obsessively on one of her overstuffed couches.

Not that surprised about Carole and Caroline's apparent non-relationship. Anyone around NY got a taste of Caroline Kennedy's skewed sense of reality when she put out feelers to run for Senate: she wanted to reveal nothing of herself, her political opinions, had no relevant experience and nothing to recommend for her except for throwing her support very early behind Obama's first campaign. The stories that were less than positive about Caroline and touched on her entitlement apparently shocked her despite the fact that the Kennedy family has sold papers and tabloids for 50 years. I had always thought very highly of her as a serious, nice person but the does she/doesn't she want to run thing turned me off. So it does not seem weird (TM Writer Girl) that a woman like Carole, who made her way to traveling the world and writing and producing for Peter Jennings without benefit of riches or connections, who was very close with Carolyn Bessette, wouldn't get along too well with Caroline K. Carole's not a doctor. Didn't pretend to be. Nor are any of these women (Wig from RHOATL and LuAnn come closest as LPNs). Yet they all analyze, name-call and assert their opinions about one another, because that's their actual j-o-b as it pertains to this series. It ain't like Carole whipped out a scrip pad and wrote 'Munchausens with psychosis, 1 lb Thorazine/day' and handed it to Aviva's pharmacist. Give me a break.

Well, that was a little unsatisfying. Yes, all of these fools talk shit about each other, but - Tamra vigorously puts most of this shit in motion, at least to me, and never gets held accountable for anything. The stuff with Shannon alone is pretty unforgiveable. She pushed as hard as she could, quite literally physically pushed Shannon, to try and have some kind of rationale to say Shannon was crazy - because Shannon in all likelihood told the truth about the 'take the Beadors down' bullshit. She ruined Lizzie's one event where everyone showed. And she was shown giving her unsolicited put-downs of Crooks all season. The other wretches do have reason to be pissed at Tamra and have her dead to rights on those things. And I do think she has a hate-boner for Lizzie strictly because of Lizzie's 'exotic' looks while she, Tamra, is a rapidly melting creature from The Secret of NIMH. But I wanted a real meltdown. Tamra folded but she is a cockroach comfortably living inside of a Twinkie. Of course she won't be fired (despite distributing Lizzie's real phone number) and will be back next season. She is a walking sack of shit coated in Teflon. Ugh.

Ugh, those photos. Even lust isn't explaining this adequately - if Mario went along with making sure a restraining order was filed against his mistress, WTF is he doing? How surreal to have them cuddled up like the frigging law was not involved at some point. We all love sex. Sex is an incomplete answer. Well, at least Kasey has given up the 'blonde.' I know some great-looking, much more successful men in NYC in Mario's age range and I seriously cannot imagine a single one of them ever, EVER doing anything so public. Ever. And a couple have left their wives for other women, but this is some serious fuckedupedness.

Could you clarify? I am not being snarky, I really don't understand. We can't slut shame a slut that breaks up a marriage? Of course you're being snarky. Just for me I get sick of reading this bullshit about the eeeevil other woman when you have the Moaner's own husband only to happy to hold his mistress by the hand in broad daylight in Manhattan the same week his psychotic beloved wife's blink blink blink 'we're great!!!' response to questions about their marriage airs on TV. It's always the third party who gets the scarlet fucking A when there were no rings and no vows on her end. Especially if she's a she.