Midnight Cheese

Sonja is really lucky and has gotten a lot of positive spin on her 'bankruptcy judgment' - very few outlets explain that the reason she filed for bankruptcy was to get around the fraud judgment, only to find that when the fraud judgment was upheld, she found out that by law, she could not discharge the fraud judgment against her through bankruptcy. She couldn't walk away because she intentionally deceived the producers and it was a pattern of hers. It wasn't a mistake in any way; she placed an ad in Variety about having millions of dollars to produce films and encouraged people to come to her to apply for funds she didn't in fact control. She's been playing games and refusing to pay the people she *lied to and laughed at* again and again for probably 5 years now. Because that distinction either isn't explained or isn't important to Sonja fans, the threads are always, 'That's sad, she's so nice.' And I'm thinking, damn, Sonja's such a not-nice person! She just smiles a lot when she hoists her wineglass or tries to engage in on-camera frottage. She's the biggest liar and user on the show by a mile. The meanness she has shown towards LuAnn and Carole this season is probably closer to the real Sonja. Maybe the 'neighbors will think you're my dealer' crap she said to George's fiance/whatever is part of the real her too.

Where is there proof that there were 'illegal' tapes per the judge? Where is the order? Can we read it?

Thanks, zoeysmom. I know I have never read any proof - any evidence - anything besides 'Bethenny said!!!!' about Jason 'hacking.' Again, I don't see how Bethenny is a press victim. She's leaked a ton of shit; she's just mad because it's not working, and she's chosen to get cuddly-wuddly with a roidy looking fucker who was expelled from one college for rape. I'm sure it's twu wuv. She buried her own reputation.

AuntieDiane6, when was Bethenny booed while talking about Jason? Was this on her own set?

I don't see Alex as a victim of Kelly at all, including the 'icing out' conversation; I think it's a very silly exaggeration to act like that was a threat let alone a Mafia-style threat. All of these women have played the game from ep 1 season 1 about what things they'll show for, which fellow Hos they'll support at their events. Alex's awkward, painful attempts at social climbing, her fake intellectual posturing and her guffawing 'finding her voice' would be off-putting to many people, not just Kelly. Alex is no saint. The people who were completely snobby about Alex were LuAnn, Bethenny and Ramona.

The Vanderpump-Todd 'information' came from a gossip site. Just like Page Six and Radar, only somewhat less vetted: Tamara Tattles is known for getting more wrong than right with the Atlanta Housewives. I don't think Bethenny is some brave advocate against scummy press. It must be some other homeplate face heroine toting her daughter around like a Birkin roughly every single week, without fail, since birth. It's so *weird* that people like Liam Neeson, Jennifer Connelly, Michelle Williams (hugely pursued after Heath Ledger overdosed, and with a newborn herself) can walk around the city and not have adverse, antagonistic relationships with press and Honest Bethenny (who would NEVER call paps or use the press, no ma'am) can't. Super weird. Bottom line for me is that Bethenny bungled her divorce. She came out of the gate as aggressive. She filed first, she could've mediated and set a tone that made settlement a possibility, instead of being out years of time before even custody was settled. Like poppygibson, I watched the Martha Stewart season of The Apprentice and Bethenny has been an argumentative, arrogant, can't-get-along-with-anyone person for years now, well before RHONY, and my contempt for how she carries herself and treats other people comes from that. In terms of the reality machine spitting people out, yes, it does. But the same people defending the Giudices aren't necessarily the ones who loathe Bethenny. She is NOT some carefully selected victim of the fame or infamy machine. She's had LOTS of opportunities to show a graciousness that she lacks - for instance, the widely commented lack of PUBLIC gratitude to Ellen DeGeneres for the chance to bomb with her talk show. But that's not her style. Bethenny's style is to call herself a racehorse and bitch about being constrained. Bethenny's problem isn't the press, or even her divorce or an angry, possibly vindictive Jason Hoppy. It's her. Chick is a narcissist bar none. I enjoyed the trip down memory lane, with Bethenny walking down the aisle, just married, alone, and selecting a cover photo for her wedding album with Jason's head cut off. It's all her, all the time, and anyone who doesn't like that is a hater. Okay.

True, that -- I wasn't thinking when I passed along the theory that she was starting to spend nights at a rental, but wanted to maintain the facade that she would remain in the brownstone forever. Yes, 100%. So either Sonja is fundamentally oblivious to other people's feelings, or she has been very angry at Carole, perhaps because of the 'buttfucking' TH about St. Barth's. Neither is a good look. I really wonder where Sonja's head was when this stuff was being filmed, not just this season: in the Berkshires, she was sloppy, tactless, aggressive and tone-deaf with the 20-year old boat captain; in Saratoga, she had what looked like actual bed-head when she came in, drunk, ranting about 'bitches!'; last season, she was the pursuer and the flirter in St. Barth's with Thomas and Russ, not the reverse; the season before last, the guy she treated as her 'sexy boy-toy artist,' Brian, clearly had no respect whatsoever for her, and painted her in a ghastly, grey light - not the work of someone revering or really caring for his subject, especially knowing she was going to unveil the work at a party. None of that looks like a light-hearted, happy-go-lucky woman who just wants to have fun, never intends harm and only wants the best for everyone around her.

izabella, Carole IS pissed at Sonja - at least that's my take on Carole's blog. http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/blogs/carole-radziwill/carole-gossips-liars-hypocrites?page=0,1&cid=related_blog I think Carole errs in being critical of Kristen, who I think laughed at the absurdity of it all. I don't know if it was here or not, but I read interesting theories about Sonja seeking revenge for Carole TH'ing about Sonja getting 'buttfucked' by Thomas after he had his tryst or whatever with LuAnn. Sonja is extremely passive-aggressive. She's probably envious of how smoothly Lu has negotiated life as a divorcee -- Lu has had two separate lines (the melamine housewares, the clothes) come out recently, while poor Sonja is getting called 'delusional' by Josh Taekman. Of course, Lu has not had a judgment of fraud upheld against her...As far as Carole and St. Barth's, while Carole probably shouldn't have said anything like that, she filmed that TH after St. Barth's was over. Sonja and Ramona were big ass aches (hardy har) on that trip, even apart from crazy-assed Aviva. And Sonja was deeeerunk with a capital D during that trip...just like Saratoga. Another Sonja theory I read is that she was late to meet Kristen because she was in the process of having to move out of her place, so that she could rent it out and actually start paying a little something on her giant fraud judgment, years after the fact.

This should be a sticky on every page of this thread. Hilarious! Vicki and Tamra look like HELL this season. Tamra looks soft and slack-bodied and mottled frozen rat-faced, and every time Vicki moves she seems like she's straining a seam in her dress or across her cheek. They are both just fucking ugly beyond what can generally be described in English. David's remark about daughters was unforgivable. But Shannon is just beyond - beyond comprehension, beyond being dealt with. Is it because of her (plasticky, tiny) nose that her voice has that horrendous aged whine to it? Or is that just her? She also really does carry herself like a woman in her mid-70s, and is desperately unhappy and passive-aggressive. Tamra's made-up lie and ingratitude towards Heather didn't require miserable Shannon's two cents. Shannon's got her 3 girls but maybe what she really needs is a job besides RHOOC. She has too much time, money and opportunity to make herself unhappy and to navel-gaze and pick at her dumb fucking husband. Maybe she wasn't always such a shrew.

I'm caught between feeling sorry for Sonja and feeling disgusted by her - not for being single and wanting casual sex, but for the Carole/Luann stuff she fed the facialist before inviting her on camera, for being so gleeful about perhaps lying about Russ, and for sure for lying about St. Barth's. We all watched that trip, and we never saw anything showing Russ flirting with Sonja - but she flirted with him. She also was a huge PITA, before Volcano Aviva erupted: she criticized Carole for having Russ there when everyone knew in advance that Russ and Carole planned to meet in St. Barth's, where he had a concert (Ramona chimed in and Carole said she'd been around both of them and their men plenty, so they could 'shut up'); she complained about that more than once. Luann was right to tell Sonja that Sonja valued her relationship with Ramona more than her friendship with Lu. I'm impressed that she brushed off the facialist's gossip so quickly and lightly, but - it's been a whole season of insults, LuMan, likes to dom short French dudes -- but nothing about Ramona, who has been a total asshole to everyone including Sonja, beyond 'she's unhappy.' Yes, many people are unhappy when their 'perfect marriage' includes a spouse sticking his willy into another crazy person and clapping in excitement as their wife is whisked away! But Sonja's mum. That's what I don't like about her - I think Sonja's a big-assed chicken. She won't take on Krazy Eyez but since Lu and Carole largely act like adults, it's okay for her to be a giant bitch to them. It's strategic. She has no power in her real life any longer, and she's chickenshit, so this is how she goes about it. Sonja is a woman who has to win, and in her mind be first choice fuckable as if every man she meets is secretly deciding between his partner, girlfriend, wife, whatever, and her, so Sonja has to put out feelers or outright suggest that she's #1. It's pretty obvious. It's got nothing to do with getting hers and having a great sex life - it's competitive. The point is not that she may have fucked Russ, and how truly open his relationship with Carole was - it's how she shared that. She was really smug. It made her happy to 'conquer' the pirate after he and Lu hooked up, because Sonja is as Carole wrote 'a dingbat' and hasn't really mastered what sloppy seconds means. If you have to prove you are hotter, in however demented or pathetic a way, you aren't a nice woman, a good friend, or a reliable witness about what happened between you and a man or your friend and her man. Sonja has many more problems but that is a doozy. She does not seem like she's having the time of her life on her victory laps. And she doesn't care about other people at all, really - 'Pickles,' being impossible to track by her interns and by production, keeping everyone waiting, rejecting the caburlesque dancers who trained with her at the last minute - and all of it is because she is so thirsty for attention. It's very strange and offputting for me at least. Totally agree with the posters who find watching Alex McCord unbearable. I felt complete embarrassment watching her tic out and hear her voice crack with excitement as she tried to put on her cool, insider persona. Un. Comfortable. Particularly because she never sheds light on anything. And I'm sure she feels sorry for Kelly -- I think for several different reaons, kooky Kelly would be welcome back on RHONY (by Andy and the producers) in a way that Alex never will. Alex is lethally awkward and disingenuous, and that never wins. I also agree that the best of this season has all been without both Aviva and Ramona - I loved the Berkshires after Ramona lied and flew away, Heather's anniversary party, Saratoga and all of the other scenes where they were gone. They aren't necessary for the show and throw off the chemistry in bad ways. I can't even fully credit Ramona for taking on George, because both in Florida last season and in this one, she reacted at least partially like she was flattered by having his wooden teefed, dessicated jerky attention on her. She did come correct in calling him gross and telling him about himself to his face, but that wasn't the only way she reacted to him.

Zoloft Blob, his 'day in court' wasn't him fighting a tort that only impacted him or other adults -- it would involve testimony that would be public that tied into a custodial fight over their little girl. I can't criticize anyone for coming to a settlement. There has been **zero** proof that he was 'bought off' - just as there is zero proof that Bethenny lost what she most wanted in this fight.

That's great, Lola16. I love Amy Phillips and am so glad that she called it as she sees it.

Here is one summary of what Sonja did, from a magazine about the film business but posted on the website of the attorneys who represented the producer plaintiffs against Sonja. Sonja was found liable for fraud, the judgment against her has been upheld on appeal, and with interest her fraud judgment owed to Hannibal Pictures is now $8.5. million. Those producers did their due diligence, called her bank and verified assets; what I believe happened is that John Morgan was also required to be a signatory to everything, and he refused. If you read down, it apparently came out at trial that Sonja defrauded other producers in the same way; the interviewer says she did this 10 times, and walked away when required to actually give the money over to finance the project. In this instance, Sonja also had a friend call the plaintiffs and threaten them. http://www.hamricklaw.com/news-media/articles/it-takes-courage-strength-the-power-conviction-of-one-voice-to-right-a-wrong/ I've never been on the Sonja train - and she should be glad about that! Lady Morgan appears exhausted. But what I mean is I can easily see her using her status while married and after, before the news of her financial problems was splashed around, to be imperious, demanding and abusive towards other people. Someone who really believes in 'pecking orders' and tells many, many lies to other people about what she has, gets fired after a campaign of complaints from the wives of the rich married men she was trying to snag during her 'businesswoman/restaurant consultant' (hostess) gig for trying to snag their spouses - but weeps about being dumped after being cheated on, insists that she bought properties on her own before Morgan when Carole finally let the world know there was a first Mr. Sonja -- all of that cuts against her being a nice, decent person for me. She may be lots of fun for brief periods of time around a cocktail, but I think she's hella rachet.

Filing for sole legal custody and primary physical custody from the outset shows exactly who Bethenny is. Same for not pushing for closed proceedings: it seems to me with her testimony about 'he left pee and poop in the toilets' and other things completely irrelevant to custody, she should have behaved as most high-profile people do and seal the proceedings, but she wanted to put her story out there in the wake of her disastrous talk show. Even Alec frigging Baldwin did that and he's a raging lunatic. There is no proof whatsoever that this is about money. If it were about money, Bethenny could call his bluff and offer as equal a custodial situation as NY allows and refuse to pay a penny more than any prenup and let child support negotiations drag. But she hasn't. If it were about money, she could have moved to seal things up like a drum and said nothing in public, given a Cheshire cat smile and said, 'Let's see what happens' and let him twist in the wind. But she hasn't done that either, and has lobbed what she must feel are her best weapons against him in her testimony. If it were about money, ultimately, she could pay him off to keep THEIR kid all to herself: that's the foundation of that argument. But there's no evidence that Jason would EVER do that. Reading what was in run the NY papers, Bethenny has no character witnesses on her behalf; it seems that her whole case was really laid out in her lawyer's opening statement and her testimony. Maybe that's true, maybe she it isn't. If she does not settle and is cross-examined, I don't see how she can maintain the idea that she is 'fitter' than Jason as a parent and look to a judge to be the better choice for a primary parent or the parent making all legal decisions. Going back in the day RHONY style, even Alex McCord has changed her tune about Bethenny. Alex has delivered her message! http://www.naughtybutnicerob.com/people-are-expendable-to-bethenny-frankel-jason-was-a-prop-reveals-alex-mccord/