Pop Tart

I loved Greg’s practice runs in the bathroom. He is sometimes smart like this and then other times just dumb as a box of rocks. Smart to try and record Tom, dumb to be keeping the papers in a folder marked “secret” and he didn’t make copies! Interesting thing with Greg is that he’s somewhat positioned to be the “moral” one but when offered more power and money he goes for it every time. I think with him they’re trying to show how even a “good” person can so easily be swayed by the money and power. Something else no one has commented on is when Logan asked Rhea to give her opinions of the kids and how, while completely self-serving, spot on her take on each of them she was. Which brings me back to Shiv. Much as she’s been far too arrogant for not very realistic reasons, Logan’s allowing Rhea to set her up so he had a good excuse to dump her? Horrendous. And I’m now more than ever convinced that Logan only put her into play as a possible CEO as a chess move in his hopes of getting Pierce. He was never serious about the possibility of her taking over. But instead of telling her the deal was off he had Rhea lure her into a misstep and then used that to cut her off at the knees.

Kendall offered the reopening of the divorce settlement as a way for Logan to have a front when he gives money to Caroline. The goal was to assure her vote in the proxy battle but he can’t actually offer her money for her vote, so Kendall suggested using the divorce settlement as cover for Logan giving her money. And Logan got his money’s worth as once Caroline agreed to the deal she even said she’d talk to Jack (the other shareholder who had 4%) and bring him on board as well.

Oh I don't think she's more together than her brothers - clearly something is broken in her too. She just seems to be more together because she doesn't have the obvious, in-your-face crutches that Kendall and Roman use. Kendall is a known drug addict to pretty much everyone and Roman uses his "rock star" persona to keep people at a distance. I just think, in comparison, that Shiv gives the appearance of being more competent and able then her siblings. I'm also agreeing that I'm not liking her much either and I too am also usually about "woman power". For me it's that she's gone from zero to sixty in terms of letting the power plays go to her head. Funny thing, while Rhea is turning into a super-schemer, she is still the female I'm currently rooting for (though I use the term rooting loosely) of all the women. She at least is coming across as competent in her efforts. Yes she got fired by Nan Pierce but at this point I'm not sure she didn't plan that in some way given how "in" she seems to be with Logan. That's not to say she's who I really want to "win" it all, but she is more interesting to me. I'm actually liking the thought of Shiv and Kendall getting together with Marcia in response to Rhea. The siblings are always at their best when they're supporting each other, so I'm here for that.

Yes. In the blink of an eye he went from looking kind of happy because he was going to the zoo with Naomi back to the dead-eyed, zombie the moment Logan mentioned he should go visit the family with him. The actor seemed to visibly shrink about 2 sizes in seconds. Just phenomenal physical emoting that he does. I'm with you. I liked Shiv better last season when she was on the outs. This season, since episode one when Logan offered her the job, she's gotten an enormous head and has let fly with almost unrivaled levels of arrogance. Of course all the Roys display astounding amounts of arrogance all the time, but she's been especially over the top. And while she is definitely not stupid, she's not nearly as smart about all things business as she thinks she is. It's a fair assessment to say that she could get there, but isn't there yet and she allows her arrogance to sabotage her own progress - i.e. burning all her bridges with the not-Bernie candidate instead of exiting more smoothly, announcing to the Pierces she's Logan's choice of heir, dissing Logan on the dais at Argestes, etc. I think the Shiv adoration is because, compared to Roman and Kendall, she seems to have it more together. And some of it has to do with the fact that she's consistently dismissed by everyone as a potential choice for Logan - including by her husband - so there's an element of rooting for the underdog. And some is because she's a super-sharp dresser.

Yeah I wanted that too. I thought they could have had the cop go see the foster mom to get a current address/work place for Marie. That way she has to ask why he's looking for her and finds out that Marie was telling the truth. I didn't want a scene between her and Marie but I did want the scene of her finding out.

I’ve watched the episode a number of times now and a couple more things occurred to me. The first is funny. Roman, after he asked Tabitha to play dead, goes to Geri’s room and his knock is in the beat of the song (poem?) “pray for the dead and the dead will pray for you”. Nice touch writers. The other thing that struck me about the siblings is that they do as my siblings and I do (all of us long-time adults), and that is to revert to our childhood roles and behaviors when in the presence of a parent. I think Eyes High has it right, Kendall, Shiv, Roman and Conner will never be different in the work place as long as Logan’s around. Away from Logan they might be better-functioning adults, but will revert when they’re in the vicinity of their dad. Even when Shiv was supposed to be selling the deal and the family at the dinner she’s still needling Roman. She was the one who kept pushing him to describe the plot of the book, etc. And Roman made multiple snide comments to and about Kendall in front of the Pierces, while he was also supposed to be trying to help seal the deal. Logan has clearly always made them compete for his attention and so that’s what they do. That and put each other down to make themselves look better in comparison.

Have they given a reason? Andy kind of shrugged it off as not his decision, but I find that hard to believe. I’ve only kept watching because I was waiting for the payoff I need, i.e. Jack being called out for his laziness, Ayesha her double standards and general vulgar ness, etc. But after all this I don’t get that slight palate cleanser? Not happy.

I watched it too. Did Andy say there was not going to be a reunion for this crew? The reunion show is the only reason I’ve been holding on.

I do think that his offering Shiv the job and the PGM deal are intertwined. He is definitely someone who is thinking about 100 steps ahead. So at the family get-together in the first episode where they were ostensibly meeting to discuss whether to sell or not was probably about that, but also about getting Shiv into the mix as a palatable addition to a deal with the Pierce's. As regards Nan Pierce and her demanding Shiv be the successor, I think that was game-playing on her part as well. She needed a fig leaf for making this deal, one that could help her save face for not only selling the company that had been in the family for generations but to do by selling it to the Roy empire (their biggest competitor and enemy). She wanted cover - that's why she demanded Shiv be the named successor. And it's clear that it was only cover because Logan turned her down and walked away and she still made the deal, so clearly it wasn't a deal breaker as she said. From what she said PGM had been losing money for 8 quarters - that's two years of loss and that ain't good. So I think she was going to make the deal no matter what the Roys did at the get-together. So Shiv was being used by both sides - the tragic thing is that one of the sides is her father.

And she, throughout this whole two day event, made many gaffes and mistakes. As did they all, except for Kendall (who was just mostly awkward, but still kept it together, other then the pooping the bed thing). And though I enjoyed every squirmy moment of all the interactions, I did think it stretched credibility a bit that the Roy offspring were so incapable of polite social behavior. It also seemed unbelievable to me that they all were meeting for the first time. Though they clearly come from different ends of the spectrum in terms of wealth - meaning generations of inherited money vs. nouveau riche - they move in a very small, rarified world of the wealthiest of the wealthy and I just don't believe that they wouldn't have encountered each other in schools, events, charities, etc. The Roys; Conner, Kendall, Shiv and Roman may have a mom and dad who are terrible, but I don't believe they wouldn't have gone to the best schools and swum in the "best" circles. So their cluelessness about how to interact at a posh party just didn't ring true to me. The occasional gaffe I could understand and their arrogance creeping out makes sense, but the complete inability to make meaningless chit chat? As I said, a bit hard to believe. On another note, Jeremey Strong, though he's playing this beaten-down, depressed, shell of a man, just has chemistry with everyone he has a scene with. His interactions with Reya (Rhea?) and his confab with Naomi? So good. Really every moment of every scene he does, he manages to convey so much with the smallest of changes in facial expression or tone of voice. This cast, pretty much universally is stellar, so I could call them each out for something, but JS just hits me every time.

Yes this was the kicker for me with Emily. Her crying and dramatics at Gina's shopping treat was pretty deliberate. Her participation was full of many dramatic sighs and sitting off to the side all "woe is me". I believe she even made a comment about how Gina was getting this day but what about her, Emily? So when she then drew Gina out of the group fun of her getting a new outfit, literally getting her outside where Gina ends up comforting and 'there, there-ing' her. I still don't care what Kelly may have done or not done with however many people - that is her business. And I'm convinced that it was Michael who told Vicki, perhaps on one of his double dates with her and her boyfriend (? can't remember his name). But regardless it is TAMRA who is responsible for bringing this into the light of the cameras. I don't doubt that there was discussion with Vicki and perhaps Gina before that dinner about getting it out there, but she is the one who said it. And she's the one who said 8 men on camera. For her to now (post-filming) to be all about how Kelly is the worst, most evil person will be something I'll be giving serious side-eye to for the rest of the season. From what I can tell they have a serious falling out near the end of the season and Tamra is trying to put it all on crazy Kelly. But if it's based on Kelly finding out that Tamra is the one who initially aired this, then I will have to be on team Kelly (though I know she's a complete mess of a person).

That was my first thought as well but then I thought about how much some senators and representatives are willing to allow from Trump because of what they’re getting in return. Geri and Frank and the others in Logan’s circle have unimaginable levels of power over many, many other people’s lives and they are probably millionaires themselves because of their proximity to the top of Waystar. So that’s the trade off they’re willing to make, taking Logan’s abuse in exchange for massive power and wealth for themselves. That’s the bargain that every one in that room made. I did feel a smidge bad for Tom last night but I’m not crediting him with true altruism towards Greg when he didn’t rat him out. I think he held onto the information to use against Greg at a later date. He knows that Greg has something on him (destroying those documents), and now he has this to leverage against that threat. Kendall was very definitely not participating in the taunting of the men on the floor, but he did set up and trap Roman for Logan. From one moment to the next he’s being very surprising. He is truly the one I’m most watching for. I just cannot guess where he’s going to end up this season. Shiv really seems to be setting herself up for a fall as she’s outpacing Roman on the arrogance front.

She is the one who mentioned it because Vicki wasn't quite going to go there at that point, instead alluding to the bad things she knew about Kelly. And Tamra's being the one to actually say it and bring it into the conversation for the cameras really makes it clear why she and Kelly have a major falling out as the season progresses. Tamra was on WWHL last week? Maybe the week before and she was going on about what a POS Kelly was and how she was so done with her because she's nasty and terrible, etc. She also said that she had supported Kelly all season and how terrible for her to turn on her, blah, blah, blah. I think she also said that Shannon and Kelly were also on the outs at this point. But this scene last night makes clear that Kelly may have good reason to now want to torch them. I'm not saying that Kelly hasn't done horrible things because she has, but when she did the others were rightfully mad and disgusted with her. Just as Kelly now has a reason to be mad and disgusted with them. And I agree with you Keywestclubkid - what Kelly did with however many people she did it, as long as they were all consenting adults? Totally her business and no one else's. If she told Shannon when they were off-camera? Not at all okay for Shannon to share, especially with Vicki and Tamra. I missed how we "know" that it was Shannon she told last night. Before reading all the posts here I was convinced that it was Michael who'd told Vicki about it since he double-dates with her and her cop boyfriend.

I think they changed who the Grace character was from the pilot episode into the rest of the episodes. For the pilot she's listed as Grace Roy (Roman's wife) but by the time they're at the Thanksgiving get together she's just his girlfriend and she and the child weren't seen again after she disagreed with him about a movie (I think).

Nancy mentioned in the first season that they adopted him when he was three. She also said they knew what his life/care had been for the year previous to the adoption but had no idea what had happened to him in his first two years. This was all in a conversation with Bill I believe, brought on by her concern about Brian (?) not talking or interacting with them. I figured he must have been severely neglected as an infant which caused what I was viewing as reactive attachment disorder. I guessed they’d go this route with his story but I’m disappointed that they did so. I think it was telegraphed almost from the first time we meet the kid and thus wasn’t a shocker or even surprise at all. Instead it just sort of seems precious. Like here we’ve been hearing all these serial killers talk about how they got where they did, so let’s give one of the detectives a kid who’s a textbook example. I truly hope they drop the whole storyline in next season just as they did Holden’s girlfriend in this one.

This makes sense. No matter what Roman or Kendall had suggested Logan was going to go with Roman's idea - which would be a double blow to Kendall, first because he was siding against him and second because Vaulter was a company that he had brought into the Waystar corporation. But in "siding" with Roman, Logan has all bases covered. If it's the right decision, shedding Vaulter, then Roman can get a slight pat on the head and Logan is the all-knowing CEO who made Kendall do the deed. If it's the wrong way to go and somehow they discover that Vaulter would have made them billions, then it's all on Roman and he'd take the fall. I thought it was interesting that Kendall, who was doing what Logan wanted because he literally has to do what his "dad told him to" actually made some of the most effective business moves he's made to date. He let the lead guy think he was still on his side (while said lead guy was thinking he was still leading Kendall by the nose) and he kept the workers quiet for the extra day he needed. Then he came in during the night and had the server physically moved to another floor so it was under his control and made sure all his ducks were in a row. Then he lowered the boom. That was all Logan-esque and not at all how Kendall (who has wanted to be a good businessman, but one with a bit more heart and soul) would have handled this prior to his downfall. Some have suggested that his doing this deed was so that he could move up in Logan's good graces and his being stationed in Logan's office was proof that he had advanced. But I didn't see it that way. Him being stationed in Logan's office at a conference table is both to further make the point how much he is under his father's thumb and for Logan to keep the rivalry hot between Kendall and Roman.

I think you're right. He came from nothing and had to fight tooth and nail to get where he is so for him that's just the way to operate. Doesn't matter how powerful his enemy is (powerless, basically, contractor or superrich opponents), they must be put down and shown their place at any cost. This is why his relationship with his kids is so damaged - he sees them in exactly the same way. He says he wants them to be independent and ambitious but every time they attempt something it makes them into his opponent or enemy and they must be brought down. There was a very telling moment in season 1 when they were all in the kitchen in Arizona at Connor's house and Kendall told his dad that he'd realized that Logan resented his kids for having all the privileges that he (Logan) did not have growing up. And that's totally true. He resents them for their privilege, wants them to do more be more ambitious, but then has to squash them the moment they become a "threat" (as he'd define it) to him. This cycle is both completely understandable given his own messed up childhood and the struggles he must have faced to get where he is and it's also toxic and screwed up as hell. One of the moments I really liked last night was when Logan was throwing out names of those he could name as his successor and he mentioned Gerry. She perked right up at that and then looked pretty unhappy when he said he wouldn't actually name her, just tell people he'd name her. So no, I wouldn't count her out of the power plays. He may push her faithfulness just a bit too far and she's definitely intelligent enough to run them all into the ground.

Any bets on whether Logan promised Roman the CEO position just as he did Shiv? We didn’t see the tail end of their discussion just Roman making his pitch and then coming out of the room claiming he’d been picked (then making a joke about it). Of the three Shiv definitely seems the most ready to take on the job but Logan does like to play games. And he hasn’t liked that Shiv was working for the politician who bashed him. So I could see him making the offer just to get her back in the fold again. Poor Kendall. He’s just so beaten down it seems hard to see how he can recover but I’m actually pulling for him. I do so love this show and was thrilled with every minute.

I can sort of handle Aesha on her own. For short scenes she's funny and she has a good attitude generally, but her voice is hard on my ears and her juvenile humor doesn't really appeal. But on her own, I mostly like her. Put her with Jack? No to the nth degree. He brings out all of her worst traits and he's just so gross on his own that he's making her gross too. The thing with the wine glasses? Yuck. And the random tongue action? Also no. Anastasia, who seemed pretty easy going initially, has a pretty harsh streak in her. I'm sure a lot of it is due to the pressure she's feeling, but she's letting it come out in front of the guests and that's a big no-no. Act like a temperamental chef to the crew, they'll grumble, but still support her as food is such a big part of the experience for guests. But to show her irritation to the guests' faces - not cool. When she got disgruntled about Sandy "stealing her thunder" so that she didn't get the praise she thought she deserved, instead of smiling and taking it, she clearly gritted her teeth and rushed through her explanation of the dessert (same dessert she did when she first was replacing Mila). The guests could sense her anger even if they didn't know what it was about. Then at the breakfast of the eggs benedict when she brought it up to them they asked for potatoes. Long pause on her part then grudging agreement that she could make some but it would take 10-15 minutes. Again her irritation was clear. And when she did bring the potatoes they asked about what was going to be for lunch. Anastasia, again long pause, then tried to "joke" about a kick in the rear. But still they could sense her snappishness with the response. I totally get that she's feeling extreme stress - who wouldn't in her shoes? But you cannot let it show in front of the guests, period. You have to appear to be able to roll with it even if you're churning inside.

I didn’t think they went light on her. About 80% of the episode was bashing her. Even when a topic didn’t start out about her the HW being questioned would turn it around into an attack on Lu. Lu is certainly self-absorbed, no question, but what I learned after watching 3 episodes of reunion is that none of the others have a thing going on. Without them all glomming onto Luann’s flaws there was almost nothing for them to talk about.

When Hannah mentioned a guy being like a puppy to fool around with she was talking about Travis, not Jack. It's still a dumb comment but I took it more as he's someone to have a fling with rather than a relationship. As for Jack I just completely hate him at this point. It's not bad enough he's lazy and tries to get out of work, he's arrogant and proud of the fact. And he does that thing of trying to gaslight other people into thinking they're just uncool drones if they take issue with his lack of work ethic. Hate.

I didn't notice that - but even so, there's no way that she or her security people would have any way of knowing that he's not taking a picture of her. If someone came up to me and was standing a foot away with their hands holding a phone outstretched towards my face, I'd assume they were taking a picture of me. And regardless of what he's taking a picture of he is still right up in her space. If the royal security protocols are anything like those of the secret service then they probably don't comment on why the security is done the way it is. So it could be that she asked for the empty seats. But it could also be that her security did so. And just because Kate M. didn't have empty seats around her doesn't mean it wasn't the right call for Meghan. Disliking the Duchess doesn't mean you're racist but racists do have a major problem with her and she has had more threats made against her than other members of the royal family. So if your protect-ee has had more threats, then the security protocol is going to be more stringent. It could also be that she asked for the space. Certainly. I'd just argue that there's a whole lot we don't know and no matter what she does she gets hit pieces written about her.

I think this would certainly alarm most security staff and personally would move beyond what I think someone in the public eye should expect. This guy is not just taking a selfie or trying to take a picture of a tennis player. He's less than a foot away from her.

Yep. I was so irritated that Sandy gave Colin more grief about the anchor chain (arguably only partially his fault and something he felt very bad about) then she gave Mila about any of her screw ups. Sandy didn’t know about the homophobic comments but she did know that Mila wanted to serve nachos, did serve tacos, did bake a cake with chunks of baking soda in it, served canned salmon, etc. Not once did she berate Mila in front of the others. And yes she did eventually replace her, but even then she did so while complimenting her “passion”. And of the two types of mistakes only Mila’s were ones that the guests were aware of. They never even knew the anchor chain had an issue.

I agree. I get that she probably felt both flattered and pressured to take on the job of chef when asked. I also get that she could regret saying yes. But Joao is right to be frustrated that she’s now saying that she wanted to say no but didn’t. The chef’s output is one of the most tangible elements of the cruise for the guests. So he is concerned that Ana will not be able to hold her own when they actually have challenging guests and that could affect their tips in pretty major ways. On a separate note Jack has now joined Mila at the top of my list of most disliked BD cast members. He’s lazy, entitled and gross and I hate how he can just skate because he’s funny. Joao on WWHL just said that whenever he would get mad at Jack, Jack would do or say something funny and Joao would let it go. Hearing that conversation between Travis and Jack about Hannah made me get a little more why Colin felt like he didn’t fit in with the rest of the crew.