EC Amber

I had started this thread before seeing the last episode and yes I can absolutely see what you mean. I got the impression that she was the *only* woman on the project? And given her husbands reluctance (assuming it was sincere), I suspect she was also the passion for him as well? But I still see a similarity between the two women. They are both reduced by their spouse, their marginalization is normalized for anyone to see. And so is the humiliation.

It's a testament to the excellent acting that one finds themselves repulsed and angry by the Commander's Wife... and then feel a twinge of sympathy that she created her own gilded cage. That she helped craft the mass production of that cage so that all women were forced into them erases all but the most entrenched sense of sorrow for the bitter landscape it's become. I have to admit, I was skeptical about the casting, but Yvonne Strahovski has really taken hold of that part and owns it. And this is just my opinion, but I see a little bit of a parallel between her and Melania Trump - beautiful and powerful and traded in being authentic living for a life of abuse. They both misjudged the value of wealth, power and comfort for autonomy. YMMV.

What I'm curious about is this: are there *any* Commanders that are part of the resistance. How high up does that go? Being limited solely to Offred's POV in the book and only a slightly larger world in the show we really have no idea how the structure was designed - though there are some interesting hints (the court scene still reflected American court proceedings more than the biblical system of "town fathers" who people who bring their grievances to).

Well, you know he did ATTEMPT. He just didn't actually follow through on it. Clearly your mileage is taking you somewhere else... which is ok. Just that others are getting to different destinations.

I think one element here regarding religion in the story is pointing out how religion makes it easier to take concepts to ludicrous even dangerous extremes. Much like the saying - It takes religion to make good people do horrible things. The idea that there are "true" Christians/Muslims/Jews/atheists is a fallacy. Of course Gilead is a Christian society - it just happens to be a more dysfunctional, more damaging, more violent other Christian societies. It's disingenuous to strip away an integral part of the identity of any given society solely because to associate it with the violence it perpetuates can be difficult to accept. Our discomfort doesn't negate reality, it is in fact a sign that our minds are working properly (cognitive dissonance) - we're supposed to be uncomfortable because it *is* religious in nature that has gotten our protagonist into the life she finds herself in.

I find it fascinating in a story that is almost exclusively about the sexual slavery of women, people are still attempting to defend what was clearly an attempt to rape a woman. That she said no and he didn't doesn't make him some kind of golden boy. Only in a society where rape is commonplace and excused with religious handwaving would such a comparison even be acceptable. If a doctor did something like this (and it has happened) it is considered a crime. So because Offred said no that somehow reflects positively on the doctor? We should applaud him for NOT raping her? Is this where we are landing - applauding men for NOT being rapists? Sadly I don't think so.... Moira escaped at least 2 years later (as this is Offred's second posting and each posting lasts 2 years).

Point of interest, there is an interesting interview with Atwood where she mentions intentionally not naming the protagonist. Then she had heard that within discussion groups people were coming to the same conclusion you have. She thought it was interesting and figured why not. Quote with citation below for additional reading (it is an interesting article, though scant on details it is interesting in insight to Atwood's thought process). "Why do we never learn the real name of the central character, I have often been asked. Because, I reply, so many people throughout history have had their names changed, or have simply disappeared from view. Some have deduced that Offred’s real name is June, since, of all the names whispered among the Handmaids in the gymnasium/dormitory, “June” is the only one that never appears again. That was not my original thought but it fits, so readers are welcome to it if they wish." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/books/review/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-age-of-trump.html?_r=0

@Brn2bwild That occurred to me as well. In her first encounter she was angry. In the second she was controlling. In the third she was... creepy. "We'll watch out for each other" given in that light, sweet voice came off as a threat to me. Even more suffocating. On the one hand I feel like it would give her a feather to turn in a "bad Handmaid" - OTOH that would put her on the radar for others. Seems like the safest route is to keep your head down and go unnoticed. Not sure... but it struck me as odd too.

This reminds me of another church that once preached a converts skin would become whiter with time and righteousness. I suspect much of the difficulty people with the show is that their preconceived notions of what racism is "supposed" to look like in this scenario isn't matching up. Some envision a world of the more traditional racists where it was a matter of segregation with no room for exception (or very, very little room - in this case it depends greatly on what side of the Dixie Line one is born on). Others envision a Gilead that is coming off a more contemporary (and if I may add, more pernicious) form of racism. I agree with those above who feel that racism is worse than it was 30, 40, 50 years ago. But I would suggest that is because it has become far more subtle and pervasive... racism has changed in application, but not motivation or origin. A parallel that can be drawn is that of the Aunts - women who are given just enough power to leverage it over other women. Arguably to gaslight them into acceptance and submission (this will be normal and all that you knew was actually crazy). You have a Dr. Ben Carson insisting everything is fine and there are no racists... and suddenly the narrative begins to become far more realistic than what Atwood once referenced in the book. What we have instead is remarkably close to what we are already dealing with: a world that is most definitely racist and dangerous for POC while simultaneously being presented with figureheads that try to soothe people into complacency. And sadly it's working. I think the story would make *less* sense if there were simply no POC at all. I don't think any terrorist organization would be able to seize power without the aid (and pacifying) POC - at least initially. Granted I can completely imagine the PTB in Gilead telling themselves that eventually they will focus on becoming "pure", but that's an agenda requiring time and makes about as much sense as holding only women responsible for fertility (meaning it makes no sense, but given the source it's kind of not surprising).

I don't think Gilead is all that consolidated - there was mention of fighting in Florida easing due to the presence of oranges (so we know that the resistance is felt at least along the eastern seaboard).

I've been looking forward to any scene involving June and the world outside of Gilead. In the book it was Japan which, to my mind, fits better... but hopefully with it being an ambassador we may get some insights to the political climate regarding Gilead that wasn't available in the book.

I can't wait for this episode.

Eh, It's part of Jewish tradition and not much gets more "old school" than that. Certainly not where Abrahamic religions are concerned anyway. Still, Gilead functions as a strict, literal interpreting *Christian* nation so that is moot anyway. And like many previous Christian nations there is a "right" set of scriptures and anything else remembered will get you a cattle prod to the throat (or equivalent). I suspect that the Gilead bible both exists and is heavily edited upon its predecessors (although that begs and interesting question: which version of the Christian bible is Gilead reliant upon and how much editing did they do?) We know from this episode that at the very least the entire story of Rachel exists and Serena Joy likely has the story of Job memorized. At least enough to use it against June when she (rightly) points out that you don't feel pregnant right after a man cums. She could have pointed out that she isn't god either as the passage Serena quotes is one given by the biblical god to Job and not indicative to any insight women have when they conceive.

Sorry? I'm wondering if this is a jab at me (who started a thread about him and more broadly all of the Commanders).

Thought this would be a good place to discuss the character as well as the role of "Commander" in the show. Hoping there's more than "F*$& those f*$*%ng raping f*$%" which, while totally understandable, only gets us so far. I posted this because I had a line of thought that I wanted to throw around a little bit. I was thinking of the scene in the first episode regarding the procreative events between he as Offred, how he cleaned himself and then gave a quick exit. You think he smiled when he was out of the room or did he really think he just committed "the Lord's work"? But then I wondered about all the other Commanders... how likely would some of them use that act to further humiliate their wives? At this point in the show (waiting for episode four) we have seen and heard very little from Comd Waterford. To be perfectly fair his perfunctory clean-up and quick disappearance made me feel he at least had enough of a sense of decorum to leave as fast as he could. I suppose that is something to say. Still, what good and admirable qualities does this man really have? What about his peers? Looking forward to seeing how his role develops and hoping we get to see other Comd's as we have their wives. If only to have a hope of finding some quality or aspect more human and less monstrous.

I am right there with you. Normally this would NEVER be something I would even suggest, but given their circumstances and environment I don't think I would have had a problem with her claiming miscarriage just to see a little comeuppance.

In the book it was a crime to suggest that the men were at all responsible for the birth defects and low fertility. Women (wives or handmaids) couldn't question a man's sperm count or viability.

It sucks not having broadcast tv... just finished watching it. Random thoughts, no particular order: I'm pretty happy with how the tribes worked out as with the exception of Tasha the entire Angkor tribe can just go. Yes, even Woo (I know he gets much love and I don't dislike him, but I don't enjoy watching him on tv either). Tasha works the game - probably better than anyone else out there. If she keeps pulling these great observations and moves and keeps the target on others she may pull this one out. But grinning and curtseying after loosing the puzzle was awkward to watch. Right on the heels of what I thought was some negative attention I was sure she was gone. Well played! That being said - the rest of them are idiots. While Abi is a great goat, the name of the game is still "keep your tribe strong." PG is simply a stronger player in challenges and Abi seems a little lazy or entitled at camp. For the team, poor choice and I suspect they'll be back next week at TC. It pains me to admit this, but Kass was remarkably focused and calm during that puzzle. Color me deeply impressed. What bothers me so much about Abi is that she is blindly passive-aggressive. If she was doing it to unnerve or manipulate I'd be impressed, but when it comes down to it - I don't think she has a clue. But it's more than that. When she has decided (almost ambiguously) that she doesn't like you, everything you say has some ulterior and sinister motive. I don't much care for toxic people like that. We're stuck with her I think and this saddens me. I was rather impressed that Spencer took his weakness (struggling to make a connection) and used it to bond with Jeremy. And probably get some good advice or at least a good ear to talk about something that is important in his life. I can certainly see why people say he is a really smart guy. As far as the game itself - I am LOVING having the idols hidden in a challenge. The risk and ovaries required to snag one in front of everyone.. what a brilliant twist I hope they never get rid of. I will never get tired of watching that. Statistically if they never get rid of that then eventually someone will get caught and I would love to see that. I also love this split into three tribes. It's enough of a fracture to get most of the alliances a little altered. I agree with the poster up thread that noted Angkor got shafted unfairly by getting stuck with having to build a new camp. They should have had something extra and some food to compensate since the other two tribes could just go back and bond and relax. I would have preferred that such evenly split teams have a close to the same level of resources so we can focus on the social game and challenges. Looks like what we'll get stuck with is "how much does this suck" from Angkor instead of, you know, the actual game. Next weeks challenge looks brutal and is my LEAST favorite kind of challenge. Will a contestant have to be seriously injured or even killed before the producers realize that blind folding people is a horrible, horrible idea? And Probst - fuck you for yelling "watch out" to people in blindfolds. Idiot.

That looks just like military/government food stuff.

Coming in so, so late on this. The first world problem of waiting on Netflix... Shona impressed me in that she seemed the youngest, but also the bravest and interestingly (for the general "station" Moffat put her) extremely critical in her thinking. While everyone was tripping over themselves dealing with the dream crabs, she was interrogating Santa. Granted, he was a projection of their minds (but was he, was he really?) - but she was at least hammering for answers and taking notes. For some reason that just charmed me. Ok, the dancing was pretty spectacular too. But her whole character was fun to watch. My (pretty well developed) feminist muscle was not in the least flexed over the whole perceived age issue. If anything I thought it was pretty clear that the Doctor didn't care about how old Clara was but devastated that there would be no more adventures with Clara and it was his fault for not coming back sooner. To me that was what the whole "second chance" was about - not that he got more eye candy, but that he got more time. Which is a rather lovely play with someone who has so much of it anyway. This was emphasized by the fact that the only two creatures the Doctor called sexy was the T-rex and Bellows. I didn't like that some of the "science team" saw the crabs after they woke up. Bellows woke up, shook off the dream, realized she was in her wheelchair, shrugged rather sadly and went right past the dust without a glance. If they all did that it would be more terrifying as the dream crabs really couldn't be realized in a conscious person. I think I'm in the minority but I liked Clara before and am especially looking forward to next season without the obstacles, lies and obfuscation. And while I liked the idea of Danny and the actor and the quality of acting - the actual relationship just never really gelled with me. Mostly I'm glad he's gone, but the whole great-grandson thing hanging out in the ether is annoying. Some questions and plot points should be dealt with by the end of a season and some can survive into the next season. Clara's great-grandson shouldn't be one of them. All in all I enjoyed this quite a bit and am looking forward to season 9.

Missy! Yay! I love me some Daleks. I love me some confused Daleks even more. Truth: Ever since I was young I had a thing for older men (and I'm now old enough to have children could legally drink). Capaldi Does. It. For. Me. Putting him in glasses and pulling a rock star? Icing. And yes, I am happy to see Clara. I've been enjoying their evolution since the regen into 12 and I'm curious to see where it goes now that Pink is gone and not a distraction. But mostly I'm hoping we get some answers to questions from season 8.

I have no idea why but I fell instantly, deeply in love with this character from the start. Perfectly balanced between insecurities and vulnerability and this insanely keen mind who shares a fixation with the Doctor that I think represents all of us. She is us on screen. Her dying felt a bit like a slap across the face. Then I caught a hint I'm just delighted until next season.

So clearly I'm coming in late... SO MUCH WIN! I really, really enjoyed this season and with very few spoilers and a few naysayers I was worried I wouldn't enjoy it. In no order - I LOVED Cindy's conversion conversation with the Rabbi. Had to go to youtube to watch it through a few times. Up until that point I really thought she was just bullshitting for the food. I wish they had given us a tiny, tiny glimpse of her actually studying or talking or reading - if only to make it seem more realistic. It felt like it came out of nowhere. Fig and Caputo? That was gross. And seemingly unnecessary except to see where he is getting his shitty advice from. The woman is unethical and robbed the place blind, and *that* is who he is going to listen to for career advice? Healy and Red? Oddly charming. I don't like him except when she is around. She seems to humanize him. Otherwise, Counselor Rogers has his number - he is a misogynist and racist. And a bigot. He means well, but he is operating from a place of insecurity and ignorance and that is a nasty combination. I seriously thought something bad (physically) was going to happen to Daya's baby during the drug bust. This is almost worse - she's going to get lost in the system... at this point I'm hoping Pornstache's mom comes in, swoops her away and that is the end of that story. I kinda hated it when it started, I hated it when she got pregnant, the whole framing Pornstache, and I hate it now. This story can end. I want to see more Chang. I want a spinoff prequel of her life. Oh Crazy Eyes - I have always had a soft spot for you. I want you to finally be with that Amber Benson look-a-like, turtle throwing cutie who loves your writing. I almost cried for So-so. Of all the characters I feel like I relate to her the most - the awkwardness, the desperately wanting to connect and have a group and a niche, the suicidal behavior. I did NOT want her to end up like the girl from season one who died. So for Poussey to step up for her, try to protect her and help her and finally find a spot for her... that might have been one of my favorite arcs just because the end had such a satisfying pay off. Fuck Piper. Don't care and her character is developing but in no way I find interesting or entertaining to watch. That monologue on top of a table - the writers were reaching way too hard and at that point I stopped taking her seriously. But then there was Boo and Penn. So much wonderfulness. I have to admit, I secretly wished they'd gone through with raping Coates. Enormous burden and not really anything you can come back from. But the reality is that the predator just got handed a new victim. And that bothers me deeply. For a place where it is clear there is no justice to be found... I have no idea how these women can protect themselves from rapists fucks like that without being vulnerable to solitary or being sent "down the hill." Speaking of - think Nicky and Stella will find each other? Because I kinda like that idea... I'd like to see either or both back next season. Lorna - you fucking lunatic. Well, you got married... not in Bora Bora Bora, but you finally hitched yourself to a man - AND GOT LAID. Good for you. I hope that having your fantasy fulfilled keeps you from being a dangerous, reckless fuck... but I suspect somehow not. It was amusing how the guy considerate to wipe his feet before beating the shit out of someone was his best man. No idea why that is amusing... but there you go. I have no idea how to feel about Norma and her cult. All kinds of weird shit going on there. I LOVED how young Boo almost died, realized there is no god and then smiled. I love how that gave her happiness and peace. Sophia - I hope you are out of solitary soon. That is some serious bullshit and has me still feeling a little pissed off. Looking forward to next season. Looks like they will get double the population - lots more story lines, let's just hope it doesn't get so dense with people that it becomes impossible to keep up with everyone. The Game of Thrones problem. Oh and Alex? Don't care if she lives or dies. Her character ran its course around the fourth episode of this season.

Like flipping a switch. Going from shocked and scared and a little pissed to just lifeless. I am really hoping Taryn is just a spectacular actress because that was... too lifelike. Unlike GoT, I was "ok" (as much as one can be) with how rape was presented here. Women being raped shouldn't feel like the setting for a man to tell his story. I want Boo to find out what happened. I want her to put on that scary clown makeup and do something horrible to Coates.

"Happy Birthday Jesus" is made all the better with Elliot flinching then looking down while shaking his head.