MaisyDaisy

I just don't get it from a business sense. They are selling us a product 'Arrow', basic supply and demand rules inform us that to be successful they need to ensure their product meets the wants of the market (audience), they are selling 'B' when the market wants 'A'. The whole 'Make Arrow Great Again' is confusing. They reacted to a vocal minority, one that had a history of hate towards both the writers and other fans. That comic faction won, the writing/direction changed, however they have all the talk but not the numbers- they wouldn't win a popular vote, thus the ratings.

It just surprises me that the writers aren't poking their heads out the window, looking around seeing what's going on in the world, taking note of how thirsty people are for social conscience in particular female representation. Sitting back, reflecting on their ratings, on how they have writen/treated/treating female characters lately on the show, and thinking upon what the vocal crowd they tried to appease this season actually has brought to the table (not ratings that's for sure). My predictions; WD centric, Susan and Oliver 'all in', Dinah connecting with Digg? I think we will see a 0.5 within the next 4-6 episodes. If they head in a Dinah/Oliver direction I think we will get 0.46 type numbers, still a 0.5, but only just. If they don't end with Olicity, or hype it over the end if season break, I think we would come back in season 6 with 0.5, manage a couple 0.6, but see lots of 0.4s in the second half of the season.

TVD/TO would hate on fans whenever they had written something they knew would be unpopular, so the attention was taken away from whatever was contentious. TO got so little social media buzz- it's ships were getting literally 7-8% the twitter traffic of TVDs that the actors started liking hate tweets prior to media commitments and character centric episodes for the buzz. An actress intentionally went to the tumblr anti tags and tweeted that 'after a not good day, tumblr made me cry' which got her a pity trend- coincidentally on the very night a character centric episode for her aired. Writers, actors, EPs etc sometimes do it because they are arseholes, but often because it gets them social media traffic. But if you have to incite people into talking about you, it's probably a sign things aren't going too well. Look at EBR, she doesn't need to be even active on social media to be a fan fave.

Season 5 of TVD, writers killed off a popular character (Katherine) in a really misogynistic way- she was the only character of all the evil characters killed that got sucked to hell. They had sent off the Originals to a spin off, which they hyped crossovers and the shows to be connected, only to turn around and hype then end the shows second most popular ship (Klaroline). The writers started a campaign on social media of hating on fans- all fans telling them to stop watching if they didn't like it, insinuations they were stupid/vapid/dumb etc, I have never seen anything like it. the writers stoped paying attention/respecting their own canon/mythology, and the show started to retcon previous canon. It was plot hole after plot hole. The writers got flack for the fact that female characters seemed to be plot devices for the male characters, every arc they got was turned into manpain. Fans actually had a WW twitter trend asking for Caroline to have a non-romantic plot line. Season five of TVD fans were still holding on waiting for what writers were promising. The combination of killing a female character in a mysoginistic way, ending (writers always leaving the door open with 'for now' 'at the moment') popular ships, retconing canon, pushing fans away on social media, and writing female characters to orbit the male characters killed TVD. Sounds familiar huh? if Arrow keeps up it's season 5 changes, I too see it heading for Friday, where CW shows go to die, perhaps in the second half of next season when they are pulling 0.4s.

Whelp, she just keeps getting more and more uninteresting.

Ouch, but hahahahaha.

Oh thanks do much for that! That's an awesome link.

I felt that about welcoming Digg back, no pat on the back, no hug or should've squeeze. Especially when Felicity had just done him a solid in helping to get him out. Perhaps they are wanting show that she's at a distance?

Hahaha, so true. Every time I see that written I want to ask them how successful it can be considered given the ratings?

The thing is that comparisons need to be taken loosely on the CW, as the network, how shows are watched and even what qualifies a show for renewal has shifted quite a bit from when those shows had their 5th season. Nikita and HoD both got axed for ratings that would have seen them renewed now. TVD and GG both had some really contentious plot directions in seasons 5 and 6 as well. I think that Arrow bucked trends with the way that it at times increased and held steady (for along time the best on CW) particularly in areas like live+3, and the less important live+7. It doesn't fit the pattern of other CW shows, because the ratings dived from a place of unusual stability when two majorly unpopular plot lines happened. If it's not broken, don't fix it, I guess. If Arrow had continued on it's path from 4A onward, I think we would have seen a season decline, but still less then average for a CW show. What it was doing worked for the general audience.

Um that's Canary 3.0 thank you. Or though some might argue that she is Canary 3.5.

Mmmmmm, is where they looked at the ratings, realised that ignoring what for a lot of people is one of the main draw cards for Arrow was perhaps a misstep?

I do think there is a lot of ego and hubris tied to ratings. When they get this low writers, EPs and actors like to point out how flawed the rating system is, but are silent about other indicators like social media traffic or live7+ ratings usually correlating. They took a gamble and it didn't pay off. They obviously got either dictated to, or listened to the wrong advice, because they made missteps about what was popular, and lots a huge amount of viewers as a result.

Does anyone know the raw (unrounded) numbers of the demi?

I think it might end up depending upon the ratings, if they do keep sliding and we get 0.5, with an indication that 0.4s might be around the corner. Then they might have to look at course correcting a little earlier towards something that's known to be popular. If the ratings don't pick up over the next few episodes, indicating that Tinah is not bringing much to the table, then it would be a risk to pair her with Oliver.

But even then, if her slept with her while playing her- gross. "Hey here is a convenient vagina, yeah she is hella shady, and I am totally keeping my enemy close, but while I'm here....." they can't redeem this for me with Oliver, he comes across dumb in any situation. Having Thea go all Moira on Susan would however go some way to pleasing me.

We had Russia and dumb choices for sexual partners, we better not get a lunge in a few episodes or I will walk away from 'Arrow proudly brought to you from Painting with Numbers'. I don't even care if the season ends with Olicity, if they are not careful they are going to erode Oliver to the point where I don't want him anywhere near Felicity.

I think in popular culture, the demand for the 'badass sexy vixen' with little substance has really declined in desirability. If she were smart she would drop the sex bomb angle and go full on powerful strong woman who is not here to fulfill your sexual fantasies. She could aim to ride the current wave of female empowerment right to a spin off. But for that she would need the support of the female audience, one that is skewed towards a particular established pairing, one that already has BC fatigue. But yeah, I have been saying that I expect gas lighting about their amazing chemistry. I do think just like saint Laurel it will alienate viewers.

I think that's just JH trying to hawk 'sultry/sexy' that totally looks like an acting choice to me and not at all scripted. Not a smart acting choice though.

I remember reading one HP fic, and it was amazing, strong characterization, mind blowing twist on canon. Then 50,000 words in the characters decide to spend a whole chapter talking about their love for one direction........in a Harry Potter fanfic, set entirely in the magical world, until they all randomly start to gush about how hot a one direction concert was.

I like it when it's at the beginning of the chapter, or it's ok if someone has embedded the link into the text describing the outfit on AO3. But as a general rule I loath A/N style breaks in the text. I have seen (lol I actually have those curtains in my living room!!!) and (JK no ones dead). But I also hate overly descriptive makeup, clothing and shoe descriptions, I don't need to know the brand of each item. I do like the visual of what they are wearing, but I like the links at the beginning, so I can look, then read with it in my mind. What I don't like are song fics, where the writer cuts and pastes all the lyrics including all the ooohhs and ahhhhhhs, and repeat choruses.

I saw screenshots of 'fans' belittling his wife's parenting, because someone who sat near them overheard her telling her daughter to finish her chicken before eating bread. They tore her parenting and character to shreds, saying that she was so shallow and vain and pushing a diet on her child. They insinuated that correcting her child's eating habits and calling her 'Kiddo' showed that she didn't really care about her child. If I remember correctly this was a conversation on twitter by a few of the biggest Olicity blogs. They didn't tag SA or his wife, but all their followers saw their derision. It was mean girls petty. I police my daughters eating habits, if she has been eating pleanty of carbs, then I will direct her towards fruit, veges or protein depending on what she's had earlier. It's called good parenting, and part of that is educations your child on fueling their bodies. What's wrong with someone calling their child kiddo? Its the ugly part of the Olicity fandom that has called Stephens daughter a 'green card baby'. I honestly don't care how big a fan they are, or how popular a blog they run. Crossing lines like that is wrong and reflects badly on the fandom.

I am curious too. I have seen a comic fan that sometimes gets a little ott in comment sections, who always goes by 'Shannon'. But one of the reasons that I took a massive step back from the tumblr Olicity fandom was all the nasty and often incredibly petty things that was said about SAs marriage and wife. Some of the most popular Olicity blogs got caught out via screenshots being very bitchy. I wonder if they posted something more 'out in the open'?

I actually cut him slack, remember when he came out in defence of Texans when they arrested the little Muslim boy because of his science experiment? It was totally tone deaf, and he got dragged majorly by people who didn't even watch the show. I see people bring it up as proof for what a horrible person he is when they want to hate on him for 'disrespecting' their fave female character (10 guesses who). However what's not shared as much is the fact that this amazing fan opened up a dialogue with him on social media, and it was this super respectful educational exchange that he was really open to, about what white privilege is, and why what he said offended so many people. The end result was that he apologised, explained that as a middle class white man who only has a high school education, sometimes he misses the nuance in things, and he welcomed having it explained to him. I think that you can get a real taste for who people are when they stuff up and the choices they make after that. A couple weeks later KC culturally appropriated a Halloween costume, but just blocked people for pointing it out or trying to explain why it was offensive. Two very different ways of dealing with social media backlash.

That would be hilarious, we need a little romantic misunderstanding comedy on the show. Oliver being all passive aggressive toward a clueless Rory, giving Felicity speaking looks and she is all 'what the frack are you doing with your face right now Oliver?'. Somebody should fic that!