MaisyDaisy

Oh yeah, I would be there in my best frock waving a flag to watch some comeuppance. Also if Felicity's plot line is juicy, I will be all over that.

Does anyone have a self cut off moment in their mind? I stepped back majorly after the BM drama, but my self mandated cut off was that I would stop watching if they ever went for Lauriver again. So that 100 episode (even though upon closer inspection wasn't particually kind to Lauriver) forced me further into retreat. But now it's if they go Tina/Oliver, if that happens I will be totally out. But I can't honastly rule out having a visceral reaction to the shady Susan sex and noping the fuck out. With it seeming likely that Oliver will be 'all in' with Susan, and talk/gossip/theories about then trying BC/GA romance, does anyone have a set hard limit? Do you think either plot line will alienate more viewers? i think that if Felicity's dark path plot line was overhyped and she is just sort of shuffled to the side, we will see more people reaching their limit.

So much this!

From what I have seen yeah. People saying that other fans are not 'real' LL fans if the accept DD, or are betraying the comics if they just slap the name on anyone, and other comic fans calling out LL fans for not telling the truth about just how great she was (ie not great at all). Some fans already blaming Olicity fans for attacking JH (which I haven't seen happening) in one sentence then declaiming the only ones defending DD must be Olicity fans doing it to discredit LL in the next sentence, so we are hilariously blamed for both positive and negative about DD. The LL zealots are finding themselves not quite as numerous as they thought, as many of the comic dudebro crowd that offered their support have done a 180 on LL now that they have a new comic canon hot chick in leather.

I am kinda giggling about LL stans arguing with Comic fans about DD, when called out on LLs flaws their default setting is to call them an 'Olicshitty', because that's what been going on for years- any critical thinking towards LL was dismissed as bitter shippers being biased. Only that habit is backfiring hilariously as comic dudebros who dare to defend DD to LL fans are getting called out for shipping Olicity. It gives me joy to see, it really does.

Watching the LL stans and the DD supporters clash in the comment section of that poll is entertaining. I see points made from both- the way they delt with LL since her death is not good, they did bait her fans, but people also over read into things (same as some Olicity fans do) and essentially lifting out one female character to insert another is gross. However LL never really worked for so many people, so why shouldn't they replace her. But the timing and method used to replace her showcased some shit writing. it was funny that even though the conversations were purely LL/DD someone would accessionaly throw in a quick anti-Olicity slur, somehow it's still all 'our' fault? Even though it isn't clear what exactly 'it' is that's Olicity fans fault, both LL and DD fans can agree that Olicity fans are to blame.....for something/everything. Did notice Canadagraphs flat out lying stating that JH was bullied by Felicity/Olicity fans into deleting a tweet of an article because they were angry that Felicity wasn't mentioned in it. Flat out lying.

I know the writers probably have, but do we know if any of the other cast members have liked/reposted anti towards other characters on the show in content or tags previously?

First time, even though it was an article pushing for BC/GA romance and anti-Felicity, she was given the benefit of the doubt with a little side eye given by pretty much everyone. Second time- well a hash tag can be missed, so it's dismissed by most (not all this time), but taken note of. If she does it again, I am guessing the gloves will come off for a lot of fans. She might get some attention from particular fans for repeated 'accidental' anti Olicity/Felicity but the goodwill she has so far with others will evaporate quickly. She needs to be careful and smart.

Perhaps the comic dudebros can tell me who got the twitter trend tonight? I mean I know that going back to it's comic roots, ending Olicity and pushing Felicity towards her comic relief box totally was a hit ratings wise. With all that soooo popular, who trended again? Was it 'Arrow'? Perhaps 'Dinah' the iconic? Oh it must have been 'Oliver'- I mean the show is called Arrow, it couldn't have been anything else....right? i mean at what point do we face he reality that Arrow went in a direction that lost a fair chunk of it's audience?

I hope it's not just those three in Russia. I will not be pleased if we start getting Oliver, Dinah and Diggle scenes when for the last few years they have been telling us that they realise how important OTA is to the show- but giving us very little of it on the actual show. Do not give me OTA just with a Dinah/Felicity switcharoo.

I think what's very clear is that they just really didn't want KC, which I think was evident in the writing for LL. Because yes, the probably could have easily gotten her back, but chose not to. I didn't like LL and am a bit ify at times towards KC, but to me the whole way this has been handled stinks of some patriarchal boys club bullshit to me. The whole thing has been poorly handled.

One of the things that's kinda bothering me is as much as I didn't like Laurel (or KCs portrayal), the way she was essentially lifted out and another character slotted into her place makes me uneasy. I just don't think female characters should be so interchangeable, it's like they lifted up a six tile blue Lego and replaced it with a six tile red one. I am just side eyeing the writing a little.

Oh I don't think they are appeasing them- not the #NoLaurelNoArrow crowd, because ultimately they seemed to want KC, they just legitimized that by adding comic canon to their justification of the massive tantrum they threw online. But wily ex lawyer MG, put them in checkmate by giving them exactly what they asked for delivered in a way they actually didn't want. Really it's just a continuation of the big fuck you to them that he has been subtlety writing for a while. Its just unfortunate that other characters/relationships/ friendships are perhaps going to get caught in the mess.

I took a quick look at the dark side, because I was curious about the #noLaurelnoArrow crowd, and I noticed that in their manifestos they state that there can be no GA without BC, many of them clarify BC as needing to be Laurel Lance or Dinah Drake. So in theory MG has basically muzzled them, I think? Because both those arguments no longer hold weight because there will be a BC and she will be called Dinah Drake. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

I am genuinely perplexed at why we are seemingly allowed to talk about any out there ideas/theories- just not Tina/Dinah? The context is there, personally I think it's ratings suicide, but surely discussing what seems increasingly plausible is ok?

So true! That's what makes it all so interesting and as this is a discussion thread I love reading all different interpretations, be they skewed Dinah/Tina/Oliver or Olicity.

Do you think the writers/EPs are nervous considering the proof they have from the ratings so far, that they have strayed from the path of what made the show popular, as right now they sit on the cusp of several episodes that are going to be polarizing (Susan, Rene centric, Dinah new BC) and there is no give to be had in the ratings?

Soooo Arrow won't have the ratings or social media buzz, but hey they will now have added comic canon. I swear it's like watching a train crash, your there running, screaming, waving your arms about in warning, but they can't see you and you can't stop the crash. it makes me wonder how much of that article JH read and agreed with, how much of a mistake was it? Pushing for GA/BC now seems more ominous. Will the comic crowd be pleased they are getting Dinah, or upset that Laurel just lifted right out to make way for her?

I think as a theory it has credit. But if it was true, gosh the timing and the execution is terrible. Look at what sidelining Olicity/Felicity and bringing all the noobs has done to the ratings. How can they justify a spin off with these ratings. i think it was/is on the table, but the ratings might force them to keep any spin offs on hold. at this point just give me Felicity, Digg and we can take Thea as she isn't busy and give us Felicity and Friends.

I now predict we will get a 0.4 in the demi this season. For all the praise this season has gotten from the comic crew, it didn't show up in the ratings. I think Dinah will be the last straw for a lot of people who were willing to wait out Susan, but even moderately flirty flirt with Dinah while Olicity is sidelined will turn some away. It's viewer fatigue, we have been here, done this, and the comic canon seems to come at the price of characters/relationships/friendships that actually brought in more then 1.7 million viewers. I don't have the energy or interest to watch Oliver have 'moments' with Dinah/Tina.

What will either make Tima sink or swim for me is how she will interact with the established team. I really didn't care for Sara at first. When she came down the stairs complaining that Laurel (who had major issues going in at the time) wasn't welcoming her with open as and decided to soothe her self by having sex with Oliver. The whole taking him to Laurels for the Lance family dinner just cemented my distaste. BUT, he approach to the team chipped away at my dislike, even when she disagreed with them, she felt like she viewed them with respect. Laurel on the other hand, I feel suffered from KCs headcanon again, she brought into the whole BC is the leader (in comics) so came across to me at times as an unearned authoritarian, with a false sense of superiority. If Tina in all her 'she is Oliver's equal, his peer which he hasn't had before' *cough Sara cough*, starts giving orders which Felicity and Digg defer to, then I am done, if she takes a lead roll as 'Oliver's equal' I will be done.

It was dumb. Liking an article that was not just pro BC, but pushing BC/GA romance? Is that something she wants? Hopefully she is not going to follow KC pushing for romance. If she is smart, she will approach this from a female empowerment angle and ignore the romance, because she is treading on toes all over the place. People who wanted LL/OQ are already pissed that Tina is here with the canary meta cry they wanted for LL, giving her more of the stuff they wanted for LL will not go down well. Either will sidelining Olicity for more BC/GA hints at romance. i never expected a Tina/Oliver lunge. I thought we would get gaslighted by having small hints of romance that could be seen as plausible deniability, where when questioned the writers/EPs could be all 'oh we aren't writing romance, that's just their amazing chemistry (no matter if said chemistry exists or not) but who knows? Us writers follow where the story takes us, and with this chemistry.....' To be clear, I think it would be insane, it would be rating suicide. But I think with the ratings the way they are, they need to course correct quickly, so I think that brings the chance of BC/GA right down. It's a bad gamble ratings wise, however I did watch the hubris of TVD and it's spin off TO writers disregard everything their audience vocally wanted because of 'artistic integruity' so unfortunately logic can be absent.

We don't say car hood, we say bonnet, so now all I can hear is "I am bonnet'. I keep picture him running around, leaping off buildings in a 1800's inspired green bonnet complete with a jaunty bow tied under his chin, obscuring his face.

Season 5 of TVD also messed with it's popular characters/ships. Lots of fans left when their ships were seperated, their faves were killed off, and the writers became very arrogant and derisive towards shippers/fans when called out on plot holes, misogyny or racism. They also said crossovers were too hard. Arrow literally has TVD as a cheat sheet on what not to do.

I guess the punch served it's purpose- it's sent the antis off of a 'Felicity is the worst' rampage, mostly distracted from the fact that Katie just lifted out and her replacement slotted in.